Hey guys, real quick. So, I've talked to men literally all across the globe about where they're missing the mark and how they want to improve. They normally talk about how they wish they were in better shape. They wish they had a better relationship with their loved ones. They wish they had more success and influence at work and some other stuff like that. But here are some of the most common and biggest things that I hear. I wish I knew more about the Bible. I wish I could lead my family spiritually. I wish I could recall more scripture. I wish Bible study wasn't such a struggle. Well guys, I've got news for you. You don't have to keep wishing. It's time for you to start doing. It's time for you to stop wasting your time and money on stuff that has no eternal value whatsoever. I keep hearing you talk about how you want to be more biblically literate and spiritually resilient. And now is your chance to prove that you mean it. That's why I want you to take advantage of our partnership with the most powerful Bible software on planet Earth, Logos. So, Logos approached me about putting something together for the Undaunted Lifers out there, and we collaborated to create something I'm super pumped about, the Undaunted Life Study Bundle. So, here's the skinny on the bundle. There are over 200 individual resources and they include titles from authors like Vodie Bacham, Charles Spurgeon, RC Sproul, John MacArthur, Matt Chandler, Dietrich Bonhaofer, William Lane, Craig, Paul Washer, John Scott, Doug Wilson, Paul David Trip, Jipacker, and a whole bunch more. And there are so many helpful resources in there. There's Bibles, commentaries, Old and New Testament study guides, devotionals, systematic theologies courses dictionaries histories encyclopedias non-fiction books, and more and more and more. And here's the most insane part about this deal. If you were to buy each individual resource by yourself inside of Logos, it would cost you over $3,000. $3,000. But if you get the Undaunted Life Study bundle, you'll get all 200 plus resources for just $349.99, guys. That's $3,000 worth of stuff for $350 bucks, guys. That's almost 90% off. And you know that you waste more than that on the hobbies that you have right now all the time. And these won't help you with your disciplehip and sanctification journeys, right? It's time to get real and take control of your Bible study and spiritual development. Click the link in the show notes for this episode. If you want the link, it's logos.com/undauntedlife. That's www.llog.com/undauntedlife or the link in the show notes. It's super easy to sign up. Again, go to the show notes and click the link or go to logos.comlife. Sign up for Logos and get the Undaunted Life study bundle right now. This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it. Welcome back to the Forging Table. The mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual, mental, and physical. Sorry. Here we go. We we're just going to do it. We're just going to go. It's the after It's the after dinner one. But here we go. At the forging table, >> you'll see a group of regular guys just like me that has hard problems with words, otherwise known as struggles with words. This is getting worse by the moment. And we are forging spiritual resilience at this table with our limited amount of brain cells. And we're doing that by digging into God's word. And we're welcoming all of you to come along on that journey with us. We're going to go out order. That's Howard. That's Russ. That's Horn. Now, here's the thing. every now and then uh you know you share something online and you know you share your heart with people and you're just like hey you know got this struggle I'm doing and so mine's obviously been that I have a baby arm attached to my body cuz I ruptured my bicep about 3 months ago as of the recording of this and so there have been people in my life that love to you know put images of me into AI and they're like hey how about you like shrink his arm and like make it look like this and so it you know it makes me feel a certain kind of way but not to be outdone the wonderful ladies of Joby Martin's team, right? Cuz Joby has about 17 assistants. But uh shout out to uh Stephanie and to April and to Becca and to Buu because I think they all colluded together because they found out, you know, what kind of happened to my arm and I mean I've had so much atrophy basically from left boob all the way down to my fingertips. You know, left hand smaller than the right hand. Like it's it's been a thing. So what they decided to do is they decided to apparently perk me up by purchasing me something. They bought me a game called Get Handysy. >> Uh because they heard about my tiny hand [laughter] situation. Uh and it's called Get Handsy, the Tiny Hands Challenge Game. >> So what we're going to do is we are going to honor the lovely staff of Joby Martin at the Church of 1122, which is obviously full of a bunch of hilarious scholars over there. And so we're going to play this game called Get Handsy. Uh and so this is how it's going to go. All right, let's get in here. All this Did you Have you read the directions yet? >> I feel like we all needed long sleeve shirts to be >> Hey, it actually looks like your left hand. >> Yeah, I don't even have to use one of these. All right, there's y'alls and here's ours. Okay. Yay. All right, so this is what we do. So, uh, I forget how the teams are going, but okay. So, there's things on these cards and it's the first one to 10, uh, cuz you have you have 20 seconds to do whatever the card says to do, and you have to use the tiny hands to do it. So, as an example, all right, so if I, uh, turn this one over, I don't know if it needs to be you and me, teammates, or across the table, but there's a team challenge and a solo challenge. All right, let me read a solo. Using tiny hands, pick up and balance a pin behind your ear. The pin must remain for five seconds without touching. Okay, y'all. Y'all do a test one. You got 20 seconds. Ah. Okay. All right. Russ getting there. All right. Uh, he's dropped it. Yeah. Y'all would have failed miserably on that. >> 20 seconds. >> You got to hold up there for 20. >> Now it's got to be up there for five. Okay. >> Look at this. >> Oh, what's happening? Do we got it? Do we? And you both fail. No. No. You're out. You're out. YOU BOTH FAILED. NO. >> YEAH. TOO BAD IT TOOK LIKE 45 seconds for you to do that. Okay. Now, if it had been a team challenge, it would have been physical challenge. [laughter] >> Using tiny hands, draw out a United States state on paper and your teammate must yell it out. You cannot speak. Okay. So, I guess if it's a we can do both. All right. Yeah. So, I I think it's going to we have to be like across the table, partners, because like I would I would have read this. We would have both read this one, Ryan. And then uh I would have had to do this uh in 20 seconds and you would have to guess. So do we want to do solo stuff or team or go back and forth? >> Team. >> Okay. Uh let's do team stuff. So Russ, me and you, we are a team. Team Tiny Hands. Uh what y'all? Well, we can't call. What's our team name? >> Uh who has small? [laughter] >> Team Little Fingers. All right. We're team Littlefingers over here. And >> the chosen. >> Yeah. All right. Well, the elected. [laughter] All right. Well, we'll let uh the chosen go first. And so Ryan, you and I will read the same card. And I think I think every card if you get it is worth two points and it's first to 10 points. Okay. Some people don't like when we play games, but hey, we're getting handsy on the forging table today. >> Who's getting handsy first? >> Uh you choose. Yeah, he's going to he's going to get hands. No, no, no. You get handsy. Yeah, you >> should read the card and find out if >> Why is he holding hands? >> Well, no, y'all. Cuz he's just getting ready. Okay. So, here we're going to read it without reading it on air. We'll read it after. This is gonna be >> I can actually read this one out loud. >> I mean, I can read. >> We need some things for it, though. >> Here we go. >> I've got paper if you need paper. >> All right. >> So, the physical challenge that you have 20 seconds to do using tiny hands, place a crumpled up ball, paper ball onto a teammate's head. It must remain still for 5 seconds without touching it. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> All right. Let's get Who's got Yeah, you got your Can you time? >> How many times? He's going to have to We're going to have to get up though. >> Take your hat off. >> Yeah, you've got You might just have to like lean across the table. Or should we change it? Should you and I be on the team? >> I was going to say that's probably >> I think we change it across. All right. >> Win anyways. >> Team tiny hands. All right. Here we go. So, how long do we have? >> 20 seconds. >> So, he's got 20 seconds to crumble up that piece of paper and it's got to sit on my head. Try to give you the best. >> Yeah. Trying to see. Yeah. Probably my hair is probably gonna help just a little bit. We got 20 seconds to do it. Uh and Russ is gonna give us the go. >> Okay. Three, two, one go. >> Just use the tiny hands. He's got the left hand in his right hand. >> Is that a ball? Is that a crumpled up ball of paper? >> Not saying >> this seems less than ballish to me. That just seems like a flat piece of paper. That's not crumbled. >> This is not a crumpled up. >> We We lose. >> Is it supposed to be crumbled up already? >> We lose. No, you got to Well, that would make it too easy, right? So, we would have necessarily >> you have to go like this. >> Yeah. Yeah. See? See now? But it's already gone. We lost the point. >> So, does he get to try it now? >> Uh, do we want to have each Yeah, we can do have each person do it. Like, I literally thought we both had like 20 seconds. We all had to do it. >> I thought you were going to do it at the same time. >> That would have been a lot better. Okay. Well, we're going to do that on the next round, but we're going to give you all a chance to do that. >> We need a piece of paper. >> Yeah, because they get to see what we do there. That's not Yeah. >> All right. Well, this will be our practice round. How about that? Is this how difficult you think God thinks it is to try to use us to be his hands? >> It's way worse. It's way worse for us. All right. Here's your chance for practice. Two points. Uh cuz this is just practice. 3 2 1 go. >> Oh yeah. He's got this. >> Oh, how >> Look at that. >> He's in the game. >> Yeah, cuz he knows >> he's in the game. Oh, but yeah. [clears throat] All right. 12 seconds. 11. >> That's not a ball. >> Crumbled up. It didn't say ball. Mine was still crumbled up. It said a a crumbled up paper ball. >> If people are going to get points for this, ours is definitely more crumbled. >> You're out. A didn't say you can't hold it. >> Leave your hand on there. >> It must remain still for 5 seconds without touching it. It says it right there on the card. You dirty run. >> We get a point. We get a point. >> Y'all get zero. You get nothing and you will like it. All right. So, here I'll take the tiny hands. Crumble. I think here's what we should do. Whoever does it best when we do those, they should get a point. A point. Well, it's if you actually do it, it's it's two points. We got to get to 10 somehow and still get to the Bible. >> All right, >> these things aren't going to be easy to do. Like, we need tools. >> What does it say? >> Using tiny hands, run a comb through a teammate's hair three times. >> All right. You don't have >> Which is not even fair. >> You don't have hair and we don't have a combination. So, all right. Here we go. We'll do the next one. Uh oh, wait. So, on the act it out challenges, if it says act it out, you can't show it to your teammate. And so I'm going to read it and then Russ I'll give it to you. >> Okay. So y'all are going to have 20 seconds after after we figure this out. And so let me know when you're ready, Russ. And then we'll go. >> I can tell Siri from here. Hey Siri. >> All right. I got I got >> the category. >> Uh it's acted out. That's that's the category. Okay. Three, two, one, go. Wait, wait. Time out. Time out. >> This one it can't be both. Like only one team can get the point. So it's got to be the first first teammate that shouts it out. So first team out that shouts it out. Russ, we ready? >> Ready. >> Three, two, one, go. >> Shaving. >> Shaving. [laughter] >> Yes, you were slow. He got it. >> Tiny hands. Here. Take that one. Little tiny tiny hands. There we go. >> Oh my gosh. [laughter] All right. So y'all got >> y'all got two points. All right. Here we go. Next one. All right. Switch it to your teammate. Uh you look at it and see if it's an acted out. Can I see it or no? Okay, it's an acted out. >> So, points are going to go to the people that get it first. >> All right, give Howard a second. You were looking at his glasses trying to see if you could see from the glasses. Good idea. >> I saw that. >> I should not have passed it out. >> Three, two, no. Hey, I haven't done anything yet. >> Yeah. What is this nonsense? All right. This is you getting hands tiny hands down. Tiny hands on the table. >> On the table. >> Okay. >> Take your feet. Hands off the tiny hands. >> Can we speak at the same time? >> What? No, it's act it out, not speak it out. >> Yeah. >> All right. Hands. Hands off. Hands off. Tiny hands. >> Speak. Hands off. Tiny hands. >> Here we go. 3 2 1 go. >> Uh. Starting a fire. >> Coming here. Brushing hair. >> Uh. Oh. Spinning a basketball on your finger. >> Jeez, we're getting smoked right now. Okay. It is had to add the little >> four to nada. All right, our turn, baby. All right, this is an acted out challenge. They cannot see. >> We don't even need the timer. >> Yeah, I guess it's just first to get it. All right, you got it. Hands off the tiny hands. Hands off the tiny hands. Ready? >> Wait, I for Wait, wait, where where's the card? I forgot what the exact word was. Where? Which one is it? >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Okay. >> Hold on. Hold on. I need to reposition. >> Okay. Here we go. You ready? >> Yes. >> Ready, set, go. Clapping. Snapping. >> Sword. Sword fighting. Sword fighting. >> Wait, who said it? Who [laughter] said sword fighting? Sword fighting. >> I said sword fighting. >> I said sword fighting. I mean like >> Who said sword fight first? >> I don't know. I think it was >> I thought he said it. I didn't but I just I was only listening to >> Okay, since I don't know how to work the cameras to roll it back. Do we want to split the point? Cuz I don't know who said it first cuz y both set it really tight. Okay, so it's five to one. >> I really wasn't listening to anything he was saying. >> All right, that's usually what happens at the table. >> All right, so we're splitting it. [laughter] The next the next get handsy card. What is it? Is it an act it out? >> Oh, physical challenge. >> Okay, I think the Yeah, physical challenges you can say out loud. So, go ahead and read it out loud into the mic. >> With both players using tiny hands, toss a cucumber. [laughter] Oh, excuse me. Not a cucumber. You can't read. You >> What word did you mess up and call cucumber? >> Crumpled. [laughter] >> You wanted it to be cucumber. >> Just please keep going. Just [laughter] Just say it. Just say it. Just Okay. I'm going to pass out. [laughter] Toss a crumpled up paper ball to a teammate from 3 ft away. Your teammate must catch it with the crumpled with the tiny hand. >> So, like we need Yeah. >> No, you throw it with the crumbled hands. >> We both have the tiny hands and I have to throw it to you and you got to catch it with the tiny hands. >> That's going to be impossible. How are you going to transfer the tiny hands? I think it's I think >> No, because you both have those tiny hands. >> No. Okay. Wait. With both players using tiny hands. So, you we would give you these. >> Yeah. And then >> I don't think it we didn't hear that part. >> Yeah, >> we just heard cucumber and we [laughter] >> also had your mind on the cucumber. >> Uh this might be a skippable one because like >> this one sounds fun. >> Okay. All right. >> Because our judge you catch them with the crumble. >> We got to see. No, we'll just see how many people like how many >> how many throws? >> Like if like let's say I throw it to you and you catch it on the first one. >> They have to do it too. >> They have to do it too. Like kind Yeah. Uh, >> all right. Three feet. >> Turn your chairs face to face. That's close enough, I would think. >> I wear a 12. So, one, two, three. >> I hope people are watching this. This is >> I want to catch. >> For those watching, this is pretty hilar. Or for not those not. >> Actually, for those watching, I think this is the first time you might be able to see how white Kyle's legs are [laughter] on a fortune table. >> Yeah, Howard was already making fun of me at lunch. I got I got white legs. All right, this is tan. >> I'm just glad you wore this summer today. You know, >> it's my summer tan. Look at that. >> There you go. There you go. >> Here we go. Just for all the glory sake. All right. Now, [laughter] here's the thing. I hope that's in the shot. >> Now, here's the thing. No, he can't lean forward to me. And I can't lean and catch it out here. You got to catch it back in your chair. Okay. >> You can't use your body to catch it. >> Yeah. All right. Here we go. First attempt. [snorts] >> One. There you go. >> Nicely done. That was a nice toss. Now, if if they if they get it, then I got to toss it to you. All right. Then I got to get my wedgie out now. >> Okay. Here we go. >> Back it up. >> Back it up. >> Back it up. Back it up. >> All right. This is where our comeback starts. Oh, that's way too close. That's like two feet. >> Back it up. >> Yeah. Lean. Lean back. Here we go. All right. >> YES. >> LET'S GO. >> I'm sorry. That was a good throw. >> It is three to five somehow. Three to five. Okay. Uh, did I you read that one? Okay, let me go to the next one. This one is a physical challenge. Okay. Using tiny hands, draw out Hold on, let me read it. >> Cucumbers. >> Cucumber. [laughter] Please tell me there's one that does require a cucumber. >> All right. Uh, this is getting off the rails. Okay. Uh, all right. So, this is for you and I, Russ, for our teammates. >> Yes, sir. Using tiny hands, draw out a profession on a paper and the teammate must yell it out. You cannot speak. >> Draw out a profession. >> I I'm literally sitting here trying to think. >> All right. So, you got a pen. You draw a soccer player and I say actor. Does that still count? >> I know. That's why I'm like, who's going to We have to tell somebody who we're like I have to be able to tell you. >> Why don't you write it down? >> Okay. like something on the back side of the page and then I'll >> make sure nobody sees it. >> Uh >> Howard's over here looking at what he's writing. >> Cheating. Howard cheating. >> Trying to decide if I'm going to switch mine. >> What is happening? >> Oh, okay. >> Wait, I'm switching mine. >> Profession loosely, right? >> Changing mine again. Okay, final answer. Final answer. >> Okay. >> Oh, that's good. Yours is better than mine. I can't change it now. Okay. All right. Let's get our pins. [laughter] >> Okay. >> Luckily, you got the little rubbery end on there. >> Hold on a second. >> Okay. Ready? [laughter] >> Oh, no. You can't do it in one hand. That's >> You have tiny hands, not on the same wrist. >> Okay. >> Come on. No. >> What do you want? Tiny hands. >> I feel like you're just mad that I figured this out better than you didn't. No, you didn't. Go. No. No. No. No. That's That's cheating. That's cheating. >> I'm basically using the hands like one hand is holding one part. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Hold on. [laughter] You're basically saying I just have to do it like you're doing it. >> You just got to hold one hand is on one hand and the hand of the hands on the other hand. >> Oh, you're you talk about cheating. You're going to a Sharpie. All right. >> Hold on. >> It was just in front of me. I only have one. [laughter] >> Okay. >> He's still holding both of us. All right. Y'all have to yell out the profession. >> What do you mean? Okay. >> Yeah. >> Bartender. >> All right. >> X man. >> Fisherman. >> Yes. >> That's a cross. [laughter] >> That one looks like a cross. >> Yes. >> You say that doesn't look like a cross. I said now it looks like a cross. >> Where is this? >> The first time it was an X. >> That's all I drew. He got that off of barely >> stupid. Yes pastor. >> I went from doctor to preacher to pastor. You should just put bartender and drove drew a bottle of whiskey. >> Hey, I was actually seven to three. We need one more. >> If I was doing this, I'd be a fisherman. I'd do a hook. >> Somebody at this table is possessed by an owl. >> [laughter] >> Nope. Next one. Not going there. All right. Is it an act it out or All right. You Ryan, read it. >> All right. It is a act it out challenge. >> So So you can't read. All right. So we have to shout it out. >> So you read then give it over to Howard? Man, we're getting smoked. We are getting smoked. Horn, >> what is the score? >> It is uh seven to three. So if y'all get the next two, you win because it's first to 10. >> All right. Tiny hands are on the table. Hands are off the tiny hands. >> Oh, sorry. >> Pin. >> Howard, let me know when you are ready and then I will give the signal to begin. >> You need a pin. >> Oh, we're just acting. We're just acting. Okay. >> Um, >> let us know when you are ready. >> You got Can't hit. >> Fighter, are you ready? Fighter, are you ready? >> Ready. >> Three, two, one, go. >> Crazy. >> Uh, scratch. Chimpanzeee gorilla. Gorilla monkey got he said, "Hold on. I said two different forms of monkey. >> He said three different forms. >> Did you say monkey? >> Chimpanzeee. >> You didn't say I mean what's just immediately point to the team. >> I was actually more specific. >> Come back season. Come back season. >> Hold on. Here we go. >> I'm looking it up. Is it I don't know how it doesn't matter what it is. It doesn't matter what it is. It matters what was said. >> Not a monkey. He would have said spider monkey. >> What if I What about gorilla? Is that not That's a It's a monkey have tails. >> The points have already been awarded. That is enough. All right. Acted out challenge. Okay. That's kind of going to be hard. >> Yeah. >> Think so. Hands off the tiny hands. All right. Horn. Give the signal. Ready, set, go. Soup. >> Serving food. Oh my >> surprise. >> Uh, birthday present. Uh, spaghett. Uh, no. >> Oh, man. Uh, birthday cake. >> Um, surprise. Birthday cake. >> Present. >> Present. Surprise. Uh, surprise present. Birthday present. Christmas present. Wrapping present. Unwrapping present. >> Celebration. >> Present. >> Surprise. Uh. Surprise! >> Bring me a present. Surprise opening. Grand opening. >> Grand entrance. Grand wide. Wide deep >> box. Open. >> Deep down. Wide open. Box >> box car >> box. >> Box of wine. >> Box. Double fail. I'm just going to call it double fail. >> That's a fail on them. They're so close. >> Open a gift. >> Open a gift. >> Open a gift. >> Oh, open a gift. I said open a present. >> They were so close cuz you said gift. You were y'all at [laughter] one point >> I said open present. >> No, at one point you were saying open box. He was saying present and then he said gift and so he said gift and you said open and it was like if y'all could be together on that, it would have worked. >> Like literally >> me and Kyle get a point. >> All [laughter] and that's on the second score sheet. All I can think about is people listening to this podcast, not seeing what's going on and just hearing like [laughter] Yeah. and all that nonsense. Okay. It is still seven to five. Still seven to five. Oh, y'all get the next one. >> Yep. >> All right. What is it? >> This is one of my favorite games we played here for sure. >> It's an act it out. Okay, Russ. We got to try to be better than whatever that nonsense was last round. Oh, [laughter] apologies. Okay, horn. We need this. We got to tie it up here. [snorts] We got to tie it up. Howard, are you ready? Ryan, are you ready? 3 2 1 go. Um, uh, lathering up, soaping up, lotion. No, no mouththing. Taking a shower. >> [laughter] >> Scratching. Uh, scratching. Oh, it's a dog. It's a dog. It's a dog. It's a dog coming up on you. It's a dog getting attention. >> Scratching. >> It's a puppy. >> Puppy trying to get your attention. >> Uh, >> okay. The mustache. There's somebody with a mustache with >> uh Oh, A CAT. CAT. HE GOT IT RIGHT HERE. >> I said cat. I said cat before he did it. I promised you. I >> I really did. >> He was split second, but he got it. And I said it quieter, but I just go cat. >> Yeah, he got it. >> Cuz I thought there was something else. >> Okay, you can go check it. >> No, I have no idea how to do that. It's impossible to know for sure. >> Okay, Ryan, we need this one or we're done. We need this one. Whatever the next one is like. >> God, as soon as you did whiskers. Dang, that's when we got it. >> That's was the >> Did anyone see Ryan do? >> No, I was doing I don't want to describe WHAT [laughter] HOWARD DID HOWARD did something over here that definitely was not [laughter] cat. I don't I don't know. >> But I was >> This one's tough. This This is a physical challenge. >> Uh with both players using tiny hands, toss a coin to a teammate from 3 ft away. Your teammate must catch much must >> Oh, wait. Your teammate must catch it in a catch catch it. >> You must catch your teammate must catch it in a plastic cup. >> Ooh. >> Okay. >> Oh, that's not too bad. >> Do we have a coin? Oh, you've got it. DID YOU PLAN >> GOT A PLASTIC CUP? It said have these things available and ready to go. We're doing uh we're doing a dime. All right. >> All right. >> You have to pick up the dime with the tiny hands. >> A dime. >> Yep. I had a dime, a penny, and a cod. >> A quarter would be >> easier. >> Yeah. >> But that's not what we're doing here on this here forging table. >> Is this is this is this with this? Since we're doing a dime, is it four points to the winner? >> All right. Give him No, give me the five points. >> We're not making this more points. >> All right. Y'all decide who who does what and make sure we are 3 ft apart cuz y'all are like one foot apart right now. >> All right. >> All right. Get ready. Here we go. All right. And this is just one. We're still not 3 ft apart. >> All right. He's grabbing the dime here. >> Oh, you know what? Actually, if he can't have the dime already in his You can't have the cup in your hands either. >> You sure about that? >> Well, it doesn't matter. We're not timing it. >> Yeah, you can go and get the cup in your hands, I guess. >> No, man. Leave it out. >> Okay. Well, fine. All right. Here we go. You got to catch the dime. Each of you with your tiny hands. All right. Ready? Go. Three feet away. 3 ft away, Howard. >> It's not 3 ft away, Howard. >> Well, we were trying to think about maybe just like dropping it from the tabletop down. That would be close to two feet. >> I still feel like that's not That's a foot. That's not [clears throat] three feet. >> Still missed it. >> You can't middle of it. >> Yeah, you can. Why not? >> Maybe in the middle of it. >> Here, pass it over. Give me that dime. You want to do you want to you want to toss it? >> I'll I'll toss the dime. >> The thing is is you're holding. You're going to move to three feet when he tosses it. So, >> all right. Doesn't matter. Howard, don't cheat. [laughter] >> I'm backed into a corner. He's in a corner. I don't know where you want us to go. >> Yeah. You got like open room over there. >> All right. We're We got the same amount of room on the table. I'm moving this away. >> All right. We ready? >> Yep. >> I'm I'm I'm further back than what you are. There. There you go. There you go. >> All right. Here we go. >> [laughter] >> This is Get it. >> This is sad. Yep. >> You're not two. You're not 3 ft. >> Yeah, we're like five feet away. Ready? >> You got little feet. I'm going to come over with a LITTLE FEET. OKAY. >> LET'S GO. LET'S GO. >> All right. You got it. >> It's seven to nine. Okay. >> I feel like you've been here before. >> We're back. We are in. >> Guess who's back. >> All right. Back again. >> All right. Here we go. Next card. You got it. What is it? >> It is an act it out challenge. >> I have to say I love this seat. This is awesome. You can just move all around with you. [clears throat] >> Oh yeah, y'all both need them. [laughter] All right, we really need this one. We've been terrible at it. All right, here we go. Russ, ready? Howard, ready? >> Horn ready. >> Ready, go. >> Flipping a page. Got it. You got it. Now that was us. That was [groaning] >> Next point wins. Next point wins. High five. High five. This is great. This is great. All right, team. High five. Woo! We did it. Okay. All right. Here we go. Next one. It's an act it out challenge. >> Not our strong suit, but here we go. >> Exactly. Yeah. I feel the exact same way. Let me know when you're ready. I I'm just gonna They're >> just going to guess so many things. >> I know. I'm just going to say send it. >> Send it. >> Okay. >> Let me know when you're ready. Hands off tiny moment. >> Hands off the tiny hands. >> Okay. >> This is for all the marbles. >> 3 2 1 go. >> Circle. >> Sir open. >> Uh cutting. Cutting board. Scooping. Digging. >> Scooping. >> Uh clay making pottery. Uh >> uh creating uh digging >> etching >> carving carving >> carving a turkey carving >> carving >> carving a tree carving a turkey carving >> carving a money >> carving a circle carving your name >> uh carving a statue >> uh >> carving it's carving right carving >> carving carving is it a food carving scoop Drooping ice. Carving ice cream. Carving with ice. Carving with >> Carving an ice sculpture. >> Carving with uh >> carving >> down. >> Carving something that's not good. >> Lighting. >> Lighting a birthday cake. Oh. Uh bonfire. [laughter] >> Carving a fire. >> Carving. >> I uh >> carving is the first word, right? >> Lighting. >> Carving antlers. >> Lighting the torch. Uh This is a >> lava >> but tastes bad. Carving [laughter] >> uh >> CARVING THE PUMPKIN. >> YES. YES. >> YES. [laughter] >> RYAN, [clears throat] I cut out the eyeholes. I lit the thing and put it in the middle. >> That was really difficult. >> I pointed out the color orange right here. >> That I kept think I was like I had no idea what you were doing. I know. I was like this be like what? Like >> Yeah. Yeah, there's not many things you're >> So, what did he do that made you get it? >> The like scooping out finally the scooping out. >> I get your You're probably saying Jacko'Lantern. >> I was trying to do like >> I get the lighting part like >> Halloween something to point to Halloween but >> Well, nicely done. Uh, good job. >> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Good job. >> That was wonderful. Good job. >> Almost winners of tiny hands. >> That was such a good comeback only to >> the rest of Bible study. We actually have to use the tiny hands to pick up. >> Nope. Can't do it. Can't do it. >> All right. >> Goage. >> Wow. >> If you think about it though, Kyle, if we actually look at it, >> guess who actually is an owl? >> What? [laughter] >> Only nerds in the audience. >> Who? >> All right. Well, uh, not everyone loves our little detours into game land, but that was a fun one. >> Oh, man. [laughter] >> All right. All right, here we go. But >> uh we got some news or news, not news, but we got some work to attend to. We're getting back into the scripture here. Yeah. So, uh start on a light note to get into some heavy stuff here. >> But, uh through the last couple weeks, we've gone from Romans 9:1 to Romans 9:13. And uh man, it just it's going to be heavy from here on out. Uh really for much of the rest of the the of Romans. And so, to start out, we're just going to read verse 14. So, we'll take a volunteers tribute because I don't know where the tiny hands and the money and all the cups have gone, but whoever wants to read verse 14. All right. The horn's on the job. Let's go. >> All right. And what shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means. >> So, um, we got a lot of by no means. Um, and the language is emphatic. You know, we get a hint in the English because there's an exclamation point. Not a whole lot of exclamation points in scripture. Um, and so it's just like, you know what? What shall we say then? Is there an injustice on God's part? By no means. This is Paul kind of reading into what the the listener or the reader of this letter would likely be thinking. Again, like a good salesman, he is looking at the objection and he's trying to, you know, almost try to do the presumptive thing, presuming the objection so that he can already address it. And you could read up to this point and think, man, this doesn't seem very just. Getting back into what we talked about last week, it's like, wait a minute. So before Jacob was born, he was deciding that he would be served by the older and that he would love him. And before Esau was born, he had decided that Esau would serve the younger Jacob and that he would be hated. And you can just see the people already being like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Time out. Time out. What? No, this is an injustice. Um, but then it's like, is there an injustice uh for mercy not being extended to someone who is unrighteous or undeserving? Because what justice would be is something that nobody wants, >> which is nobody receives grace. That would be just, right? But then you start peeling back the layers of I would say onion, but we'll just say pumpkin. We'll pull back the layers of the jacko'lantern, which I was carving, Ryan. Peeling back the layers of the jacko'lantern. It's like, well, wait a minute. But like God already he ordained it. He chose it. So isn't his fault. It's not my fault. But then we're talking about the God that's omnipresent, you know, omnipotent, and you know, existing outside of time, primordial or otherwise. And so this just seems like seems really mean. Seems really mean and really judgy and really choosy. And the answer to all those things are, "Yeah, but God is good and he is righteous and he is sovereign." And so what do we do with that? >> So fellas, what do we do with that? >> Don't shrug your shoulders like you don't have something to say, >> Ryan. I was going to say, >> you know what? I think you should use the tiny hands for the rest of the episode if you're going to talk like that. >> I don't know. I don't know what a thing. But you you were gripping that mic way too hard to not go. He's anchored in here. I'm so mad about not getting that. Yeah, that's a bad one. I'm going to think about that one for a long time. [laughter] >> Me, too. Ready to go. >> I don't know. When I look at this, I just I think back to Malachi uh one. And like it just seems like I have loved you, says the Lord, but you say, "How have you loved us?" Is not Esau Jacob's brother? Declared the Lord, yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I hated. And it's like, well, if he's done it, if he's made this decision before they've done anything, doesn't that in our human flesh feel like it's unrighteous that he allowed Esau to go down that path? >> I think a lot of people would. And that's one of the notes I wrote down here is like, do we see God just when it aligns with the way we see things or the way God sees things? And I was just going to say it's like how many people if you take 10 people in a room and you go through five different situations, one person's going to say it's just and the other person's going to disagree. Like it's it's hard to get two people to align on certain things, especially on justice, right? >> Well, then made me think back to Job. >> Like God allowed Satan to do the things that he did to Job. Is that considered just? Didn't Job basically come to him like why did you do this to me? What did like what did I do to deserve this? And what did God say back to him again? Who are you? And like I feel like if we get further into this, we get that same answer. It's like is God unjust? By no means. Why? Because of what he told Moses. I have mercy on whom I have mercy and I will have compassion on who I have compassion. Who are you to tell me what is righteous? >> Yeah. I think the job the job deal is stands out to me because we look at we look at what happens with Job and I think you can read into Job that God's plan for what is right does not meet is not set up by the criteria that everything that happens in the here and now has to be perfect. But his plan for righteousness is at the end. Like what is what is what does the plan look like at the end of Job's life? And so whenever Job is sitting there saying like why this, why this? Even though whenever we look at that story, it's still hard to swallow the idea that Job had to go through all of that. >> Yeah. Absolutely. And like there's parts of that that we definitely don't like. >> But you can look at that story too. And by that you can gain some insight to the heart of God that he looks at that story and says, "I made it right at the end by by putting Job in the position that I put him in." >> Wouldn't I wouldn't even look at it that way. Not that God's like, "Hey, I made it right in the end. I allowed him to go down this, but I made it right." No, God's like, he told Satan, "Have you looked at my servant Job?" He's like, "Yeah, but Job's only Job only believes in you and trusts in you because you've given him all these good things. And he goes, "Do whatever you want to him. Just don't kill him. >> Just don't kill him." >> And he does. And God's not like, "Hey, I made everything right. Like, I made everything good again." No, God's like, "I am God. I knew you wouldn't do this. I forneew from when I created you that you would still serve me. And >> I'm showing my God. I'm showing my sovereignty and I'm showing that I am God and I'm all knowing compared to rather, hey, I made it right in the You know >> why do we think that God ended that story with Job being renewed in all those things? >> Just to show the power of God. >> Okay. >> Wait, say that question again, please. >> Like why do we think why do we think that we go through the story of Job and at the end what do we think the motivation is for God to uh renew Job? I would say in all of the areas that he had um suffered. I think a question would be for everyone at this table and certainly everyone listening is go back to the I always bring it up. Go back to the darkest part of your life when you're at the you were the most desparing had the least amount of hope. You were in the darkest part of the valley of the shadow of death and everyone's darkest part is going to be different. And now for most of you hopefully most of you are on the other side of that darkness now. And you may not be able to put your finger directly on why it happened, but we have to we have to rest in what scripture says that if we are in Christ, he's allowing us to go through those things for our good. >> And that's why when people question openly how there could be a good God that would allow bad things happen to happen to good people, you are taking the position of God in assuming that no good can come from that evil situation. And we've talked about a lot of those situations on this show. The FedEx driver that kidnapped that little girl and killed her. Uh when people are molested, when Christians are beheaded by Muslims, like all these kinds of things. And it's like, well, how could there possibly be a good to that? >> Bro, you you are seeing a fraction of 1% of this entire situation and you're casting judgment on the entire situation. And so if you were watching all the stuff happen to Job, look at his dumb friends. >> Yeah. like look at his wife and look at the things that they were saying and it's like but look at what happened in the end. Look at how how blessed Job was at the end. And God already knew how Job was going to respond. Satan didn't. >> Yep. >> Right. Cuz Satan is finite. He's not omnipotent. He can only be one place at one time. Right. And so, uh, he's not omnipresent. And so, I think that's more so what it gets into. >> The other thing you just brought up is you said, "Why do bad things happen to good people?" >> And none of us are good. No, not one. Mhm. >> Not one of us are good. And that's the thing that we have to we kind of forget about in here because of our our fleshly thoughts and our fleshly desires. I remember having the discussion about predestination in our in our Sunday school uh like years ago. Adam and I were doing stuff on on uh tulip and uh not egalitarianism and communism. >> And one when we were talking about election and we're talking about predestination, a a lady rose her hand and she's like, "Well, that just doesn't seem fair. That doesn't seem like a loving God. We don't we don't want fair. >> And it's just like, well, you you think that you deserve it. >> Mhm. >> Well, the only thing that we deserve is death, >> but God in all his infinite wisdom and his infinite grace bestowed upon us and opened our eyes to the beauty of his gospel. It's like I just like I think for me it's like, hey, I know there's a mystery to a lot of this. It's like I don't have the answers, but I'm going to rely on God's sovereignty and and God's power more than I'm going to rely on my free will and what I think is right. >> And I and we go into that more when we get into 16. >> Let's actually I want let me read 15- 16 and then continue your point. Uh for he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. That's uh referring back to Exodus 33:19. Now verse 16 of Romans 9. So then it depends not on human will or exertion but on God who has mercy. And so the it being described there in verse 16 is God's choice. So then God's choice depends not on human will or exertion but on God who has mercy which goes right back to the previous uh section of Romans 9 where it talks about Jacob I loved and Esau I hated. And if we go back to verse 11, uh, second part, in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works, but because of him who calls. Who is the him who calls? >> That is the Lord. And so I I think, you know, so anyway, go ahead and continue your point. >> Yeah. So So then it depends not on human will. So my human will doesn't bring apart my salvation. The only thing I bring to my salvation is the sin. >> God opens my eyes to it. It's not my will, it's his will. It's not my exertion, but God's exertion on who he wants to have mercy on. And that's that's the thing that stuck out to me that changed my mind on the whole thing where I had a kind of an Armenian view where it's like, hey, like I chose God, but no, God chose me from the beginning. And sadly, like, and not sadly, like I find comfort that God chose me, you know, because like I'm so dead into my sin. If God didn't choose me, there's no way I would have chosen him, >> right? And it's because we're all I mean go back to Romans 1:18 through like Romans 3:20. We are all like completely incap incapable of acceptable effort. >> Mhm. >> Like we don't have it in us. And so that's that's something that's smuggled into that question as well. You know, why would a good God allow bad things to happen to good people? It's like how can you determine that someone is good? Well, you look at their fruits. You look at their efforts that they put in. they put in effort into helping the old lady across the street or giving money to someone in need or, you know, helping someone that's drowning or any of those type types of scenarios. You're looking at their works, but we've already established, well, Paul has already established in Romans 1 through3, >> we're not capable. And it's not that we're not capable of enough good works. We're not capable of the amount of good works required in order to have justification >> because the amount of good works is not a counting game. It's a binary. It's a zero or a one. It's a yes or a no, right? It's either we are all righteous or all unrighteous. And that's where we get to total depravity, which is total depravity is not that you are as depraved as you could possibly be, right? It's that you are just not capable of not being depraved. Even if your actions seem good and righteous, then we get into your thought life and it's like everyone loses, right? Because you may have not murdered that somebody, but you wanted to. >> Well, yeah. The one thing I was going to say I kind of I was reading uh Ji Packard's book about um knowing God and he talks about in there in there about um he is just right but he is a just judge. And I I started to reflect on that that and think about that a little bit. We talked about it last week when we talked about um do we put oursel under the authority of scripture? Right? And for us as men, sometimes we see something unjust and we want to bring justice to the situation. And how many times do we feel like we have to take that into our own hands or do we allow God to be the just judge that will bring about the he will set things right at the end. And so I think sometimes we as men have to say like he's the one that's responsible for bringing justice to thing other things in in this world. um some things that we can't maybe make right on our own. Um and so I thought that was an interesting way that JI Packard made that made that point about him being a just judge. >> Yeah, I would just, you know, classify on the what Ryan was saying on the Armenian um deal. I don't think like the Armenian standpoint is not look I have chosen God. It is pervenient grace. It's it's the idea that just like just like what you believe that God has chosen has has has reached out and that there is a a an amount of grace that he bestows on us at that point to receive his calling into our lives. And so like I always go back to the uh parable of the banquet like and I kind of think that Jesus's parable about the banquet guests is really kind of poignant to what Paul here is saying on this is that you know there were there were very wealthy uh high-end people invited to the banquet. Um they were the ones supposed to come. The master of the banquet reached out to them and said hey the banquet's starting come come. They all had excuses. They had something to go do, something else. And then the master of the banquet ends up turning around and rejecting them and saying, "Hey, now I'm going to invite the people off the street and bring them into my banquet." And it's this idea of well, nobody would look at that master and say, um, he's not justified to do that or that's an injustice. He he had the power of the banquet. It's his banquet. It's his to to decide to who to invite. And so that's what I think Paul is saying here to the people that are listening to him. He's saying you need to break away from this entitlement idea that you have on your salvation that you are brought here under under one condition and that is the mercy of Jesus Christ and his blood on your life. And so all of that being said, I do think that there's all kinds of different ways you can you can see this. I just don't necessarily it doesn't pull out to me all all the same ways uh on the individual basis as much as like he's saying groups of people um have always in God's word been chosen or selected but then even in those selectings those groups have not always there's always been a remnant from within that group that has been brought in. >> So I've heard that argument before from Leighton Flowers. Um, I actually heard him uh debate uh >> he probably doesn't alpha omega guy uh James. Oh man, what's the pastor? >> Terico. >> No, not James. Sorry. >> Yeah. Well, he wouldn't debate Terrio. But no, I when you look at the banquet, one thing we have to remember is who sends out the invite. That's what we're talking about. We're talking about who who sends out the invite. That's the call. That's the elect. So God sending out the invite to the elect. If we want to go off of that parable, >> I think that parable really just shows that that it's the sacrifice of Christ and the coming Messiah is not just for the Jewish people, but also for the Gentile people. I think it's more of a Jew versus Gentile thing rather than it is for elect or named. Um because when it comes down to it, it's like who who who acts first. >> Yeah. >> And who's acted first in that parable. That's No, I I agree that and I think that's kind of the point is that I think that this follows that same motif that it's like them breaking away from their entitlement of just because you think that you should be invited to the banquet doesn't mean you're invited to the banquet. >> I know. But when we're talking about elect and named and we use that like people the Armenian argument usually is that there's no such thing as like election. If there is election, God already saw that in the future that you were going to do a certain thing. But if we go back and we look at what happened here, it said, you know, when he talks about Jacob and Esau, he says they've done nothing either good or bad before they were born. So God's God is not looking when he's predestined whether you're going to choose him or not. That's what the Armenian argument is. And so they like to come back to the banquet. But the banquet's kind of like you're just kind of taking a piece that's talking about the Jew and Gentile rather than and making it more corporate than you are talking about more the individual part which is what Paul is talking about through 8 and N. He's talking about individuals. He's not talking about a corporate. >> That's the breakdown on this because they would say they would say and I'm not even full Armenian in this but they would they would say that this is talking about the corporate >> not the individual. But he's actually talking about individuals when he's talking about >> well Isaac. >> His references have been again back towards like Isaac, Jacob, Esau, all these are >> individuals. >> I know. But he so is Israel, but Israel is called Israel and it's also Israel. It's a people group. All these are people groups as well. And so that's what they're that's what they would be saying is that he's trying to fight the argument that's going on in the church where there are people feeling entitled toward their salvation. And he's breaking that down and saying where you have come from, you need to break away from thinking that you have any entitlement to salvation by who you are. But it is that it is just about you coming to the point to accept that if Christ has put a calling on your life and chosen you that that is you're a child of the promise. now. But every time Israel is referred to, it's not referring to all the things that could be considered Israel. That's why it's so important when someone says like, "Uh, I'm I'm anti-Israel or I don't like I don't like Israel or whatever." It's like, "Wait a minute. Are you talking about the land that is Israel proper?" Are you talking about BBNet and Yahoo and his government? Are you talking about BBNet and Yahoo's government and the Knesset? Are you talking about Jacob? >> Mhm. >> Who's been renamed Israel? every time that Israel is referred to, it's not referring to all the different iterations of Israel. It's it's referring to a specific Israel, which is what we have to determine and surmise which Israel is being referred to. >> And he he's also in a lot of these like I wasn't going to bring this up because I don't know this, but in a lot of these he is not he is not talking about their eternal placement either. He's talking about the role that he assigned to them in life. So like the role of the role of the younger shall be in front of the older. This person I I loved. This person I hated. So that would be something that they look at as well and say when we're trying to bring this granular whenever you're trying to use it to say, "Hey, here's a point to where God's condemnation was planned out for somebody beforehand. I'm okay with that, too. I think God's sovereignty is big enough for that. I'm I'm actually okay with that. Um I'm just trying to bring up the side of where they would go on that and that's where I say I'm not completely Armenian. I wouldn't stand by that. But on the statement of like Armenians just believe that they chose God like they went and and and found him. I would say that there is more to that statement about the idea that they believe that God has opened up that to them and they have received it. And and if I said that that's what Armenians believe, then I was I was mistaken on that because I that wasn't what I was trying to entail. There is the argument of free will. And like >> usually with people that you're talking about free will verse election, >> those free will people are like, "No, I've I've done something." And so whether they're Armenian or not, they >> some of them that say that don't even know what Armenian is. >> A lot of them probably do feel more like they chose than anything. And their theology is just bad. And that's I could be guilty of that, too. >> I I was talking about with this with the guys on Friday. I think there's a a big misconception of like there's that idea that just because you're Israel, that promise belongs to you, right? And it was never about that whole people group. It was always about the people that he had ordained, right? They that that he that promise was always about that certain people group that he would knew that remnant, right? and they just think because I am descended from him that that is me. So it's it's always been about that significant number of people that it was going to be. And so I think that's the part that you know as to your point it's about that certain group that he knew would be faithful not just because you have that title. Mhm. So at >> and that's where if if we go back and and we're looking at Romans, it's a whole letter. And if we start at the beginning, >> he's not talking about people's sin corporately. >> He when he's talking about total depravity, he's not talking about, well, Israel is depraved this way. The Gentiles are depraved this way. He's pointing out everything that an individual does, it's depraved. And so when it comes down to Romans 9, we can't just say, "Oh, now he's just talking about corporate." because >> it's it's more than that because we're now not only are we talking about Israel and them not be like not being a part of the the named or the promised anymore because now they're a curse. Well, it's it's not just corporate anymore. It's also individual because now we're talking about the named and we're talking about >> But it does go back and forth cuz like he very he very clearly at times is addressing groups within the church that are having problems with accepting the theology of Christ alone. >> Explain that to me a little bit more. So like, so like a lot of times whenever he's going through in Romans, you can tell where he's breaking up Romans to be specifically towards issues that are going on in that church. I mean he does it in all his >> Corinthians and so like even though so when we talk about the idea of like corporate I'm just saying that corporately from the people within the church that some of this can be applied to them as in saying you people over here that are of the sect that think that just because you're Israelites that like this is this is something that is owed to you and that you have some special tier 2 salvation. That's where I think a lot of this is coming from in the problem there in that church that they are that some of the Gentiles are starting to question, hey, if God could change how his promise worked for them, could he change it how it works for us? And then also that some of the Jews are taking liberties to feel superior than their gentile brothers. And he's trying to squash that and say we're no he doesn't need he doesn't need to justify to you why he chose to do what he's done. This is what it is set up. Everybody is called into the kingdom. >> So Romans nine there are multiple Israel being addressed. >> Okay. [clears throat] >> So but if you address multiple points eventually you have to get to a point right there has to be a main point. You can't have an effective speech and have 15 main points. it's just going to fall to pieces, right? You can't even really have two main points. You kind of have to have one. >> But we don't just get a hint. I think we get an explicit idea of who ultimately Paul is referring to. And we're not going to be able to get there this week, nor next week. But if we were to skip ahead to Romans 9:27, and Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, this is a reference back to Isaiah 10:22 and 23. Though a number of the sons of Israel be as the sands of the sea, which was the promise to Abram, right? Abraham only a remnant of them will be saved. >> Yep. >> And what is the entirety of the letter to the Roman church? It's basically one large explanation of sotiology how someone is saved >> by grace through faith not through works so that no man may boast. And he's building his argument like a good prosecuting attorney to get to the final thing which is he is talking about the the he's referring to Jews and Gentiles. But here he's talking about a remnant. that remnant is made up of individual people. Because just by the fact that he's segmenting off his language to discuss a remnant and not the whole >> leads to the conclusion that he is referring to individuals within the whole those individuals collectively become the remnant. >> And so yes, even in one chapter, even in one paragraph as the ESV are broken up into paragraphs, there are there are multiple Israels being described, right? uh the descendants of Abraham, but it gets right back to what we talked about. Are they of the flesh or are they offspring? Right? Are they just descendants of Abraham or are they sons of God? Because those are not the same people. I agree. I all that makes sense and even all of I mean everything on on this makes sense on both sides of it. I I can see where I can see where the scripture leads someone to feel that one way about it. I can see where the scripture leads someone to feel another way about it. >> Can you explain that like how you see that? >> Well, I mean, so you read this under the lens of um bringing it into bringing it into the elect. Okay, I read this if I didn't know about the elect or or any of that, I would just read this as him basically telling the people there from that church, you guys, you guys need to shut up about thinking that you have some special status and that you need to you need to accept the fact that God does what he wants to do and he puts people in roles that he wants to put them in and that he is sovereign over this whole process whether whether or not you understand it or not. And that's kind of where I sit in it is I fully believe that God knows anything and everything that was going to happen. And so therefore he has ordained anything and everything that's going to happen. But I also believe that there is something in here that suggests that uh let me see if we skip on down a little bit. At one point it talks about where he says where is it where he talks about the Jewish people that if if that they did it by the law but then >> uh that's going to be in 156 blah blah blah >> is it getting into Hosea or >> did we already go >> Israel's unbelief what shall we say then that the Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained >> it 30 and 31 and 31. >> Yeah. So that's like way far far in here, but basically like I would I would look at that to to say that he's he's basically saying that um when when the people of Israel tried to follow the law that they missed that it wasn't by faith. And so that's why that's why that they could not pursue the Lord in that and that the Gentiles who who followed Christ by faith have been brought into it. But the through point the through point of the letter >> is the elect and who he is referring to because >> Romans 8 8:33 refers to God's elect. Romans 9:11 which we've gone over God's purpose of election. >> Uh 11:5 a remnant, the people chosen of grace 117. >> I don't disagree with the elect. I just >> That's my question here. Do you believe that God elects people before? You believe that God has elected who he's going to take to heaven? >> Yes. Because I believe that God is already, it's already happened to the Lord. >> Yeah. So, it's predestined. You believe in predestination and that God has already elected. >> Yes. >> So, it doesn't matter like who the elect are, >> right? >> That God has already elected people. >> I'm just saying that. So, like for someone that that matters more than it matters to me, these verses scream that to them. It doesn't scream that to me. I read this as him dealing with like I just read this as him dealing with >> uh the pride that's happening within that area for them to say stop being prideful about where you come from. >> The Lord is choosing who he wants to choose and you need you need to accept that you need to push away from deciding that you are uh Jewish, that you are gentile, that you're pagan, that you came from this. You are all Christ followers now. And if you have any problem with it, go talk to the man upstairs >> who chose you >> who who is already who who you don't have any say in how he molds the clay. >> I mean, as long as like I mean, I'm just kind of confused because it's like we're talking about his sovereignty. So, we believe in his election. We believe that he's predestined and picked who he's going to pick from the beginning. So, I mean like that's what I read. I mean, when I first read Romans 9, I did not see that. I didn't even see like, "Hey, watch out for the pride and all this stuff." I was just like, "What's this?" So like the injustice and fault, what's what's God's sovereignty? >> And then it what got me was so when it depends on not your human will or exertion, but God who has mercy. And I was like, "Oh man, it's not on my will." Because I literally grew, not grew up, I literally was a part of a church who was all about doing good things. Like they'll say, "Love God, do good." >> You know, and the pastor would [clears throat] always say to us, "If you want to get closer to God, just go out and do good things." you know, >> and I I think there there he's like in my whenever I read this, if if I'm not looking at through that lens, this is just like the difference how I read it. I read that and I think he's again talking to the Jewish people being like it's not about your will. Like you you have been living this life that where you're trying to bring in your old Jewish habits into the Christian faith where you are still trying to will yourself into good graces of God. And he's saying it's not about that will. y'all take that as meaning. It's not about free will. It's not about and and I can read this and apply it that way. I'm just trying to give the perspective of someone who who didn't read it that way. So just to be fair to to close the loop on the questions he was asking like okay predestin destination all the things >> do you do you agree that election is unconditional that we cannot work our way into election there are no there is no amount of works that we could have done or will have done however you want to couch it >> yes that's where I that's where I believe that the only piece there that allows us to accept Christ is that pervenient grace just that enough grace that he gives us to recognize his authority >> well uh We're kind of cutting it off there in the middle, but we we do need to go ahead and wrap this uh episode this week, but we'll we can get into that more next week. So, uh guys, we're gonna start in Romans 9:17 next week. We may uh wrap up because we're not going to be we're going to be using our normalized hands, not our tiny hands next week. So, we're going to get right into everything. Uh but yeah, we'll leave it there, but come back ready to go for Romans 9:17. 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