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1:18
This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
1:21
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
1:24
Let's get into it.
1:25
Welcome back to the forging table.
1:26
Adam Dontalai permission is equipping men to push back darkness with content that forges
1:30
spiritual mental and physical resilience.
1:32
At the forging table, you'll see a group of regular guys that are forging spiritual resilience
1:36
by digging into God's Word.
1:37
We're welcoming all of you to come along in that journey with us.
1:39
That's Jake.
1:40
That's Russ.
1:41
That's Adam.
1:42
Adam, you have crushed it three out of three weeks and yet here we are week four and you
1:46
have fallen down the job.
1:47
But guess what?
1:48
You were able to make the thing go dang and that is more than Zach Todd who's not here
1:52
to defend himself.
1:53
I don't even know.
1:54
Does he exist anymore?
1:55
Where is that guy?
1:56
No, no, but that dude has so many fancy degrees and he uses big words all the time and he
1:59
cannot get a $13 Amazon timer to work.
2:03
You at least know how it works.
2:04
You're just falling down.
2:05
Why are we still you?
2:06
I thought we were supposed to have a custom one.
2:08
This is why.
2:09
Oh, okay.
2:10
What just happened?
2:11
Oh.
2:12
That was not you.
2:13
No, it wasn't on me.
2:14
You were doing the testing.
2:15
You touched it before I did.
2:16
I didn't touch it at all.
2:17
I said, why are we using this?
2:19
It hurt you.
2:20
It's like Alexa China.
2:23
Are you in there?
2:24
China?
2:25
Yeah, I think it's China.
2:26
That's us.
2:27
It's from China.
2:28
No.
2:29
So I honest to goodness thought that I could find a reasonably priced reasonably sized
2:35
hourglass.
2:36
Yeah.
2:37
I thought that was just going to be a thing low and behold.
2:40
There are a bunch of things with sand in it, but there are 60 second ones.
2:46
There's 10 minute ones, but if it's an hourglass, like a full hourglass, it'd be like this big
2:53
on the table.
2:54
It would absolutely dominate the forging table.
2:56
Like well, that's the other thing.
2:57
We wouldn't necessarily be able to see it.
2:59
And I just figured of the amount of people that listen to the show, there's got to be
3:03
a guy out there that just makes our glasses on his off time and he's willing to make this
3:08
one that's not super ornate that kind of goes with the vibe.
3:11
Nobody.
3:12
There are a lot of hourglass makers out there.
3:14
Yeah.
3:15
I mean, state sells Facebook marketplace.
3:17
I'm going to be looking.
3:18
Man, I just, it's got to like fit the vibe, man.
3:21
And so currently this fits kind of the sleek, whatever vibe it's just really complex.
3:26
Maybe it doesn't have to fit the vibe.
3:27
Maybe it was the free destined chosen hour and are you, are you going to say that that
3:32
hourglass it wasn't chosen for this?
3:34
I'm going to say that I am.
3:36
Do you even have to accept it?
3:37
If I give it to you as a gift, can I'm going to leave my hands on what I'm going to do.
3:42
You have no obligation.
3:44
It's just yours at that point.
3:45
I'll set it on this table.
3:46
It's yours.
3:47
Doesn't matter if you chose it or not.
3:49
Well, well, I'm just kidding.
3:50
I'm just going to claim that the earth is flat because of firmament and dinosaurs don't exist
3:54
or whatever.
3:55
That's another one that I get to.
3:57
The number of people recently that have been telling me that I don't believe in the authority
4:00
of scripture because I believe the earth is round is more people than I thought existed.
4:05
You know what I would say to that?
4:06
You know what I'd tell them?
4:07
I'd say listen, I'm open, get me on a jet, fly me around the world for a couple of months,
4:13
play all my expenses and let me see this thing and then I'll give you a good call.
4:19
Dude, no, they have an explanation for that to where it's just basically like, no, you're
4:22
going to have the illusion that you're flying around around earth, but no, it's flat and
4:26
then because of the dough firmament, something or other blah, blah, blah thing and when you
4:32
start asking them, so every image we have from space, they're all fake, yes, they're
4:37
all fake.
4:38
And I'm like, the number of people involved, like we're talking, it's not just NASA.
4:44
It's like Red Bull.
4:45
They had a guy that Skydove from space, right?
4:48
That was back in 2012.
4:49
I remember watching it live and when you look, like past the thing and you're like, well,
4:54
what is that out in the distance?
4:55
They're like, it's a fish island.
4:57
So of course it's going to look cursed.
4:58
And I'm like, if you can't believe I'm having this discussion.
5:01
You will take me on a jet across the world for like three months to try to figure this
5:07
out myself.
5:08
I'm open to it.
5:09
I'm open to it.
5:10
Yeah.
5:11
I definitely don't want to get into that because we're throwing in reverse just a hair because
5:15
we are going to get into Romans 1 16, which we're all talking a little bit to get to.
5:19
But Jake wants to throw a wrench into the equation, go inside a little bit, talk about
5:22
something that's easily going to be, you know, discussed and then moved on from.
5:26
So go ahead, Jake.
5:27
Well, I mean, I just, I don't think we spend enough, spend enough time on the verse 11 here
5:33
for I long to see you that I might impart some spiritual gift to strengthen you.
5:37
And I wanted to talk about that's the spiritual gift there.
5:41
You got it.
5:42
There's a dash in everything.
5:44
Yes, there you got to read 12 with that is that we may be mutually encouraged by each
5:49
other's face, both yours and mine.
5:51
There we go.
5:52
But I do.
5:53
I want to kind of hit on that idea of the spiritual gift.
5:57
And when we talk about Paul mentioning a spiritual gift here, because mutual encouragement
6:04
in faith is that is that a spiritual gift we've heard.
6:08
We've heard Paul outline what's the spiritual gifts were in other letters, right?
6:15
So I guess my question is, my question is, is, you know, where do you think Paul's heads
6:21
at here?
6:22
Are we talking about actual spiritual gifts?
6:25
I think he explained.
6:26
I think he goes some spiritual gift to strengthen you, which I think he, he, he understands
6:33
what he's writing and the context that he's written other spiritual gifts.
6:36
So then he says, let me clarify that he is that we may be mutually encouraged by each
6:42
other's face.
6:43
Those, to me, he is saying a spiritual blessing, an apartment of a blessing to my spirit that
6:49
will also be an apartment, a blessing to your spirit.
6:53
I think he pretty clearly outlines it, but it doesn't, it doesn't take away the fact
6:58
that the early church talked about this imparting of spiritual gifts that doesn't take that
7:04
away from this.
7:05
I just don't think that here he is saying, I'm coming to give you some spiritual gift,
7:12
especially the words some spiritual gift versus, I don't know, I don't know.
7:17
All of them.
7:18
Yeah.
7:19
Well, I mean, I just got to pull out of a bag and see what that well, I mean, I would say,
7:24
if you've, I mean, if you, if you believe that the spiritual gifts have continued and
7:29
you actually see one in action, does that not bolster or encourage your faith?
7:35
Yes.
7:36
I just don't think that he felt like that he personally needed to, that, that he was
7:42
saying here, hey, I'm going to bring you a gifting of the spirit.
7:47
You don't know what it is until I get there.
7:49
It's a big surprise, I think he even recognized a little bit of the confusion of his language
7:55
and then followed it up with 12 to say, what I'm talking about is that we're both going
7:59
to come away from this really encouraged, like it's going to be a gift to both of us.
8:02
So there's four dumb dums here at the table that I would call all of us.
8:06
So this, I'm going to go ahead and read from someone who's certainly not a dumb dumb.
8:11
This is R.C.
8:12
Sproul talking about verse 11.
8:15
Paul is not referring to starting out in the, starting out in the Christian faith, but to
8:19
becoming confirmed, built up and edified in it, nor is he writing about charismatic gifts
8:25
here, but about establishing believers in confidence and maturity in their faith.
8:30
This is why Paul wrote the letter to the Romans and in his why in the providence of God, his
8:33
letter is given to us.
8:34
So I agree, I sort of chipped over that exact same thing and then highlighted it.
8:38
I was like, okay, spiritual gifts here went in the world.
8:40
But then, you know, that's what Sproul says.
8:42
That's what you're all right.
8:45
We've got four dumb dums around the table and R.C.
8:48
Sproul speaking into our conversation here.
8:51
I'll just say, I have to say, I have to say, I have to say, I have to say, I have to say,
8:54
by the way, I'm just sproul's agrees with me.
8:57
So I'm good.
8:58
Yeah.
8:59
Right.
9:00
Yeah.
9:01
You got it.
9:02
What is the resistance to the idea of the spiritual gift though?
9:03
They're weird.
9:04
Well, not the resistance to the spiritual gift.
9:07
My resistance to this is that somebody would try to make this some type of special like
9:13
mystery and parting onto a handing down, even though I do believe the early church did
9:21
have some of this handing off of the Holy Spirit and the things that happen around that.
9:29
I just don't think I think it would be a stretch when he overly explains what he's
9:33
talking about here to try to make this sound as if Paul was saying, hey, listen, God has
9:39
something in store for you that's a gifting that he's not going to let you have yet until
9:46
I come and get it.
9:47
So when I read that too much, when I see the that is after the hyphen, I think he's telling
9:51
you the purpose of why he would be doing imparting the spiritual gift.
9:55
So I'm going to give you this.
9:57
I'm going to impart the spiritual gift to you so that, so that we may be mutually encouraged
10:05
by each other's faith, both yours and mine because you cannot, you cannot do any sort
10:09
of spiritual gift.
10:10
There's nothing you could do without great faith.
10:12
But why would why would God be waiting to impart that only through Paul?
10:17
Oh, okay.
10:18
Great.
10:19
Great question.
10:20
Because I would actually say think about this.
10:24
Think about who again, who he's writing to here.
10:26
So you have people who have been persecuted through death, torture, confiscation of property,
10:31
every possible kind of inimaginable thing.
10:34
And it's kind of miraculous that they've been teaching and they're so, they are so, they're
10:43
very faithful.
10:44
Paul has been, you know, Paul's calling them out as very faithful people, but who's been
10:48
there teaching them?
10:50
I mean, it's kind of like, I mean, how many, who's, who's there actually trying to build
10:55
up their faith.
10:56
And now Paul's coming when he talks about reaping that harvest, I think he knows there's a lot
11:01
of faithful souls there.
11:02
They just don't know the true, true gospel early church says that Peter started the church
11:07
in Rome.
11:08
I think that's been the history passed down.
11:09
Bishop.
11:10
Yeah.
11:11
Bishop of Rome, which that was basically referred to as the Bishop of Rome until like the 11th
11:14
century or something like that.
11:15
But I'll see your RC scroll and raise you at John Stott.
11:19
So here's what John Stott has to say about this particular passage.
11:23
His first reason is this, talking about Paul, so that I may impart to you some spiritual
11:28
gift, charisma to make you strong.
11:33
So at first sight, it seems natural to interpret such a gift as one of those caris mata, which
11:39
Paul has listed in 1 Corinthians 12 and will later list in Romans 12 and Ephesians 4.
11:44
There seems to be a fatal objection to this.
11:46
However, namely that in those other passages, the gifts are bestowed by the sovereign decision
11:52
of God, Christ or the spirit.
11:56
So the apostle could hardly claim to be able to impart a charisma himself.
12:01
He appears therefore to be using the word in a more general sense.
12:06
Perhaps he is referring to his own teaching or exhortation, which he hopes to give them
12:10
when he arrives, although there is an intentional, indefiniteness about his statement, perhaps
12:16
because at this stage, he does not know what their main spiritual needs will be.
12:21
I find that to be compelling because he is writing to a church, to a body to whom he
12:27
has no idea when he will be able to arrive there.
12:30
And he anticipates that whatever their needs are now may change by the time that he gets
12:35
there.
12:36
And so I just don't, I see the word spiritual gift, but I don't see this as like what other
12:41
people are getting into in terms of like, Oh, he's talking about the spiritual gifts and
12:45
getting into the cessation of arguments and different things like that.
12:47
I just see this being like, Hey, I want to be able to give you this, you know, I want
12:51
to be able to have this gift for you.
12:53
But as the text maintains, that is coming from God, Christ or the spirit, not from an
12:58
apostle.
12:59
It's spiritual gift with a little s and a little g, not the capital s and g.
13:03
Yeah.
13:04
Because he calls some of them are already followers of Christ.
13:07
And so you would assume that there's already been acceptance, baptism, like I just don't
13:12
see the delay factor of it has to be Paul.
13:18
I have something special to impart that only I will be able to impart Christ Christ was
13:24
already at work in these people's lives.
13:26
And verse 12 is a hint to verse 11.
13:28
I'll go back to the stock commentary.
13:30
I read some of the other commentaries ever very similar to this.
13:33
No sooner has he dictated these words than he seems to sense their inappropriate one-sidedness
13:39
as if he has everything to give and nothing to receive.
13:41
So he immediately explains even corrects himself.
13:45
This is verse 12.
13:46
That is that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith.
13:50
He knows about the reciprocal blessings of Christian fellowship.
13:53
And although he is an apostle, he is not too proud to acknowledge his need of it.
13:57
The encouragement happy is the modern missionary who goes to another country and culture in
14:01
the same spirit of receptivity anxious to receive as we as well as give to learn as well
14:06
as teach to be encouraged as well as to encourage and happy is the congregation who have a
14:11
pastor of the same humble mind.
14:14
And so it's kind of like, yeah, you know, don't read 11 for 11 read, you know, the passage
14:18
for the passage in 12.
14:19
It's like, why are we doing this so that we can mutually encourage each other.
14:23
So it wouldn't make sense that he's like, no, I'm going to impart on you the spiritual
14:25
gift so that whenever I do it, I speak in tongues, you're going to be speaking in tongues
14:29
and it won't be weird because we're both doing it.
14:31
It's just he's talking more about the gift of his presence and his encouragement that
14:35
he's going to be able to stow on these people.
14:37
Yeah.
14:38
And to say we're not beating up on your take of it.
14:41
I do see.
14:42
I do see how that you could, you could take this and say he's talking about spiritual
14:50
gift and that that gift is going to provide them encouragement.
14:53
I see.
14:54
The Bible says what it says.
14:55
Okay.
14:56
And that's it.
14:57
Like, that's it.
14:58
And if you don't agree with me, it's because you're stupid.
14:59
There's nothing wrong with me.
15:00
Right?
15:01
Am I doing the Instagram, right?
15:02
Am I doing Twitter correctly?
15:03
Jake, any last words on the speech?
15:06
No, no.
15:07
I think, I mean, like I said, I said what I said.
15:10
I'm very much, I'm, I'm very into the spiritual gifts.
15:13
I don't think there's an expiration date in the Bible.
15:15
I agree.
15:16
And, you know, so I just wanted that.
15:20
I want that out there.
15:21
I just did.
15:22
It was mentioned and I just didn't want to dismiss it.
15:24
Roger that.
15:25
Well, I appreciate you bringing that to us, Jake.
15:27
But let's go ahead and get into Romans 1 16.
15:30
We've been, I've been looking forward to this verse for months now ever since we started
15:34
like digging into this as a group.
15:35
But in a lot of ways, this is the thesis of Romans is Romans 1 16.
15:40
So Jake, since you failed so miserably on the last section, let's give you a chance
15:43
to read out loud to totally redeem yourself.
15:45
Yeah.
15:46
Verse 16, please.
15:47
For I am not ashamed of the gospel.
15:49
For it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes to the Jew first and
15:55
also to the Greek for just 16 God, man, just, you just can't like pump the breaks.
16:02
You can't slam on him even.
16:03
I thought he said 16 17.
16:04
No, don't.
16:05
Don't come to this instance.
16:06
You're wrong.
16:07
You're wrong and may God immerse you on your soul.
16:10
It's like stopping the Lord's prayer halfway through.
16:12
I know.
16:13
We're just talking about.
16:14
Hey, you want to go at your pace then, Russ, here I am trying to crawl through this thing
16:18
and you're like, nah, let's go speed racer through it.
16:20
You know, McQueen, what is the, what is the car's name?
16:22
What's the name?
16:23
Something McQueen?
16:24
Lightning.
16:25
Lightning.
16:26
Steve McQueen.
16:27
Slightly different.
16:28
Mater.
16:29
Mater.
16:30
That's right.
16:31
Toe.
16:32
Mater.
16:33
The, the very interesting thing about this that I did not know.
16:34
I think it was the R.C.
16:35
In the year that, that told me this is that this, this past, so it would be 16 and 17,
16:41
which we're not going to read 17 because I told you 16.
16:43
These are the breakthrough verses for Martin Luther, right?
16:47
So the arguably the most important reformer of all time.
16:52
Arguably the creator of Protestantism, all the different things, right?
16:57
This passage, these two verses enabled him for the first time to believe in grace through
17:02
faith.
17:03
I can't remember who first said that, but this, this is just an enormous deal, like to read
17:09
the entirety of Romans and to be like, okay, so what's the thesis though?
17:12
Like if there were like one verse that gives you the thesis, it's right there.
17:16
It's in verse 16.
17:17
And so there are a lot of different ways we can go.
17:19
I got a lot of notes on 16, but let's just tee off.
17:22
You guys go.
17:23
Hmm.
17:24
I'll start, I'll start with the, with the gospel, you know, back to this idea that it
17:30
is a story and we can't really conceptualize how humiliating of a story this is for the
17:39
Greeks to put their faith in a God who by the standards of Roman crucifixion had been humiliated
17:47
unto death.
17:49
The idea that people were coming on board to this story to be able to say that he was
17:55
crucified even with the resurrection, even, even the fact that he was raised from the
17:59
dead afterwards, just the idea, like you could see that they maybe would be skirting around
18:04
the fact that say, yeah, he was a Jew.
18:06
He did this.
18:07
He did this.
18:08
He died.
18:09
And then he raised from the dead and people were like, well, how did he die?
18:10
Oh, yeah.
18:11
Don't worry about that.
18:12
Don't worry about that little thing.
18:13
It wouldn't, it sure went across, you know, he definitely went crucified.
18:17
But I mean, Paul is, is claiming something here to say that this story, this event is
18:23
what we base everything off of, and we want to tell all the bloody gory, humiliating facts
18:30
of it, because it is exactly what he went through to pay for our sins.
18:35
And we don't want to take anything away from what he, what he did.
18:39
Russ to echo to kind of build on that a little bit, the, the power word here, the Greek word
18:44
is dynamos, which is dynamite where we get the word dynamite.
18:49
And the idea that it's kind of basically just blowing up the, all the ideology and the standards
18:57
and the, what was culturally acceptable for the Romans, it blows all of it up.
19:03
And I think that's perfect because that it foreshadows what's about to come because let's
19:07
take a little walk down memory lane where we've, where have we been?
19:10
You know, in verse one, this is a greeting and Paul's so happy and, you know, getting
19:15
ready and excited and then a longing to go to Rome and, you know, flowery and fun.
19:21
And you know, I'm here to strengthen you and here's your spiritual gifts and getting ready.
19:25
And then we get to verse 16.
19:26
It's like tone kind of shifts a little bit, you know, for I am, I'm not ashamed of the
19:31
gospel.
19:32
I don't know.
19:33
Okay.
19:34
For it is the power of God for salvation to everyone.
19:35
And then boy does the, do the wheels fall off once we get to verse 18.
19:40
And so this 16 and 17 are so mission critical because it's the transition.
19:45
It's the transition from Romans one, from the first part of the chapter to the second part
19:50
where we're really going to get into the meat.
19:52
And when I read this, when I was preparing the first couple of times, like, man, talk
19:57
about a complete night and day shift, 180 degree.
20:02
It's like you read the first 15 verses and you're feeling good.
20:06
And then you start reading 16 and 17 and you get on to 18 and you're like, boy, did, did
20:11
Paul like fall in a hole?
20:13
Did he go down a well?
20:14
Is he, did someone step on his toe?
20:16
Like what the frickin happened?
20:17
It completely changes from this point forward.
20:22
I thought it was also interesting from some of the same commentary that RC Sproul said,
20:27
one of the things to read it directly, it said, Jesus warned us that if we are ashamed
20:31
of him before men, he will be ashamed of us before his father.
20:35
And he references Mark 838 in Luke 926.
20:39
That is the real crunch for many Christians.
20:41
They want to be secret service Christians.
20:44
They do not want to be known as quote, holier than thou.
20:47
I am 100% guilty of that for sure.
20:51
It is so much easier to just bury my head and, you know, Kyle's on a lamp stand, you know,
20:58
claiming these, claiming these important things and speaking truth that I am not brave enough
21:03
to do or brave enough to be able to stand up and say and take those kinds of positions
21:08
because I'm worried about the backlash that might come from me.
21:12
And so that makes me convicted that I am, you know, potentially I have this problem where
21:18
maybe I am ashamed of the gospel because I'm not as willing as Kyle is to be as bold about
21:24
some of the things that he's claimed that when he claims them, I 100% agree.
21:29
And I stand side by side with him, but I'm not brave enough to put that out on my social
21:34
media or to proclaim it in work or to, you know, to proclaim it with my employees or
21:38
proclaim it with my clients.
21:40
Like I'm not, I'm not imparting that why is it because I'm ashamed, you know, something
21:44
is holding me back and it feels like this.
21:46
They don't want to be known as holier than now.
21:49
That is a problem.
21:50
So for me, recently there was something going viral.
21:52
So obviously we've talked about Jordan Peterson on the show a lot.
21:57
Jordan knows how important he and his work are to me personally, to a lot of people that
22:00
listen to this show, all the things, right?
22:02
Well, he was recently on with George Janko and they're doing a sit down interview and
22:06
George Janko is a Christian, you know, big YouTuber, like, you know, Twitter guy.
22:11
I don't really know.
22:12
I see his clips around all the time, but he's sitting now with Jordan Peterson and a lot
22:17
of guys have tried to peg him as, Hey, are you a Christian?
22:20
Okay.
22:21
Why do you believe in God?
22:22
Why won't you believe it and all that?
22:25
And so they're toward the end of the interview and George asks a derivative of that question,
22:31
but he just says like, Hey, why are you so uncomfortable with the question?
22:35
And you know, Peterson starts going into his normal answer of about, well, like, don't
22:40
even know what the question means and either do they, they just want me to, you know, say
22:43
that I'm on this team or on that time, that team and George is like, so why don't you
22:47
just answer?
22:48
He's like, because I will not give them power over my tongue, which is his thing.
22:51
You'll see 16 in Canada in 2016.
22:54
It wasn't about whether or not he should, he would use feminine or masculine pronouns
22:59
for somebody that didn't comport with that sex or gender.
23:02
It was that the government of Canada was going to be compelling his speech and with his understanding
23:07
of the regimes of the 20th century, you know, polepot in Cambodia and the USSR with Lenin
23:14
and Stalin with Germany, Hitler, with Mao and red China.
23:19
He was just like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
23:21
You cannot give up control and power of your tongue.
23:23
It's way too important.
23:25
And so George Janko did something and go look this up, guys, you'll be able to find just
23:29
type, you know, George Janko, J-A-N-K-O and Jordan Peterson, he, he very, he came to Jordan
23:36
Peterson in a very different way and he basically said, well, I'm just a little confused because
23:41
if I were to evaluate your, your fruit, I would say that you were a man that is seeking
23:45
after God and you were a man after God's own heart and all that.
23:48
And yet you will not publicly proclaim him and God says, you know, in Mark eight, Jesus
23:53
says in Mark eight, 38 and Luke nine, 29, if you were ashamed of me before a man, then
23:57
Jesus will be ashamed of you before God.
24:00
And so, Jordan, I just, I just don't really know what to do with that as it pertains to
24:04
you.
24:05
Peterson was stunned.
24:07
He was stuck.
24:08
He had, he had no words.
24:10
He was absolutely caught, you know, cat had his tongue in that moment.
24:13
And then I forget exactly.
24:14
I responded because that is a really good answer.
24:18
Cause George was not trying to get him like, I remember a John Rich, uh, did an interview
24:23
on Jordan Peterson's podcast and you could tell John Rich came into the interview hoping
24:28
to be the guy that got Jordan Peterson to admit that he was a Christian and to convert
24:32
him there on his own show and all the different things that you could just tell it was happening
24:35
there.
24:36
I don't think George was trying to do that.
24:38
I think George was like, just where are you at, man, just, just give me like you can choose
24:42
the vernacular.
24:43
You can choose the category, but where are you at?
24:46
Because it sounds like you were ashamed to proclaim something that you believe.
24:50
And according to scripture, that's not a category decision that you get to make.
24:54
Like this is an interrupt thing.
24:56
This isn't a toe dipping in the water thing and this is different than what you're talking
24:59
about about.
25:00
No, I believe all the stuff.
25:01
I just don't feel like yelling it from the sidewalks.
25:03
This is like you're not willing to say it in any context.
25:06
And that is problematic because you are a public figure.
25:08
You say a lot of things publicly.
25:10
So you can't be like, Hey, I'm a private person.
25:12
I have private opinions.
25:13
I don't express anything publicly.
25:14
Your entire career since 2016 has been expressing your opinions publicly.
25:18
And in this one category, which happens to be all encompassing, you're like, ah, I don't
25:22
want anyone compelling my tongue.
25:23
It's like, no, you're making a category or yourself.
25:26
I think Adam, go into your point and Kyle's been called to do something very different
25:31
than you and I and Russ, okay.
25:36
You know, that's why, and I would say to your point on Jordan Peterson, it's why, like very
25:42
clearly he has been called to be put into this position to deliver messages as a respected,
25:50
you know, whatever he is.
25:53
Okay.
25:54
But he's been called to be put in that position.
25:57
And so there is something to the, the people who are called to be put in positions like
26:03
Jordan Peterson, like Kyle, in my mind, you are, it's a greater, you have a greater responsibility
26:10
to convey truth at all times that essentially you're standing in that day after day after
26:19
day.
26:20
You and I are CPAs, okay, we run our own businesses.
26:25
That does not mean that I'm ashamed to the gospel if I'm not walking around proclaiming
26:29
it every day to the people in my office.
26:33
What it does mean in my mind is if I am confronted in that situation and in, in my business by
26:40
an employee, by a client, by whoever, it does mean in my mind that I have a responsibility
26:47
to proclaim, proclaim that truth in that moment, unashamedly, okay.
26:52
So if somebody comes to me and says, do you think, you know, I had an abortion, do you
26:57
think that's a sin?
26:58
Yes, I do.
26:59
I have to say that.
27:01
I don't get to hide behind anything squishy.
27:04
I would also say in working, I worked at a place, large firm, when I worked there, it
27:10
was not some place that I could go and openly share the gospel and Blake Baston, whose preacher
27:16
at Crossings talks about sometimes you actually need to be a little bit more subversive and
27:23
try and lay the groundwork so that there can be any sort of foundation because if you're
27:29
working in a place that I don't want to say was completely godless, but you can very clearly
27:34
see that God is not a priority there.
27:37
If you're working at a place like that, you can't just come in with your Bible and just
27:41
start saying guys, repent.
27:43
You know, even though that might be true, that's no one, no one there is a there to receive
27:48
that message and be a lot of them are not going to be prepared to receive it at all.
27:54
So there's a groundwork that has to be laid before somebody can, and then, you know, yeah,
27:59
obviously you turn them out, you know, hopefully you can shepherd them through that, but I just
28:03
don't think that that's something we're called to do.
28:04
I remember reading a quote, it was a show when tempted to hide and hide when tempted to show.
28:10
And I liked that.
28:11
I thought that was, it's something that the Holy Spirit convicts you to say something
28:16
and say something.
28:17
The Holy Spirit says, keep your mouth shut.
28:19
Keep your mouth shut.
28:20
I wonder if it's similar to early in Jesus's ministry, he would do miracles and he would
28:26
say, hey, don't, don't tell anybody, like it's just not time yet.
28:30
And so there is an incubation, there's an incubation period with certain people to where there
28:36
are certain people where there is a street preacher that is a stranger to them and they
28:40
walk along the street on their way to work.
28:42
And something tells them to stop and in that moment, they hear the gospel for the first
28:45
time and they are converted.
28:46
Yeah.
28:47
Boom.
28:48
In that moment, like converted by a stranger, they pray, dude's got a, you know, a kitty
28:51
pool of water.
28:52
You're in the club, right, checking all the boxes.
28:56
And then there's people.
28:57
So as, you know, Joby's church down in, um, down in Florida, they have their one, their
29:02
thing is about one more.
29:03
We're building spaces for one more.
29:05
Why do we have multi sites?
29:06
Cause we don't want anyone to ever be turned away.
29:07
It's all about one more.
29:08
There's a big wall in their San Pablo campus of the one more wall.
29:12
These are the people that you are most burdened for as it pertains to the gospel, right?
29:17
You're most burdened that they would come to a saving faith.
29:20
And so you, you write that person on your wall, like that one person where if they got saved,
29:24
it would just be the most, it'd be so impactful to you personally.
29:29
Some of those are really long incubation periods.
29:31
Some of those are really long periods of investment of trust and, you know, expressing the gospel,
29:38
perhaps little by little.
29:39
And then there are circumstances where it's like, no, you can give somebody the full throw
29:42
to gospel in that moment and they're ready to receive it.
29:45
Yeah.
29:46
Is what it kind of seems like good.
29:49
One of the questions I think I've heard you ask before, Kyle, that I have here is if someone
29:53
accused you of being a Christian this week, would there be enough evidence to convict
29:57
you?
29:58
Did you say that?
29:59
Yeah.
30:00
I don't think I made it up, but I said it a lot.
30:02
Yeah.
30:03
I'm kind of convicted of that, to be honest, because there's plenty of times when I go
30:06
from week to week to week and somebody who doesn't know me or doesn't know my background
30:10
or my story or doesn't know the things that I do, they would, I'd probably say no.
30:14
Absolutely not.
30:15
I was talking to a guy recently, he is a pediatric surgeon.
30:20
You know, he's getting into some different areas of business and looking to expand and
30:25
he's got a partner and his partner is coming from a different faith tradition.
30:29
But there, so he's like, you know, Kyle, how much should I push my side of things versus
30:34
what he believes?
30:35
And I don't want to give all the details away.
30:37
I want to keep it pretty private, but it's like, you know, different faith tradition that's
30:40
tangentially related to Christianity sort of kind of seems like.
30:45
And he's just like, so how much if we're going to be working together, how much on the same
30:49
page do we need to be here?
30:51
How much do we invite our clientele, which in this context is a patient into what they're
30:56
doing?
30:57
And I think a lot of people, so one of the most pernicious and nefarious things about
31:01
modern censorship is that the powers that be are getting you to censor yourself.
31:07
So you get put an Instagram jail like I was recently, and then Instagram's assuming, yeah,
31:13
he's not going to post about that anymore is he or else he's going to get a strike YouTube
31:16
channel, right?
31:17
Been denied monetization for our YouTube channel twice now with with no explanation had entire
31:23
episodes of our podcast deleted with no explanation, right?
31:27
They're just going to assume I'm going to stop talking about this stuff, aren't they?
31:30
Right?
31:31
And so a lot of people will go along to get along and they're just not going to use those
31:34
words anymore.
31:35
Right?
31:36
In 2020, I guess they're just not going to question the vaccine, lest they be given a
31:38
striker, let's be kicked off a Twitter, right? That's why it's so important, whatever your
31:42
opinions are, be on Musk that he bought that social media site because there's at least
31:46
one major platform where you can say what you want to say and you know, not just be deleted
31:52
for it.
31:53
But the ultimate thing that becomes problematic for like a guy in this situation is I told
31:59
him yourself censoring, buddy.
32:02
You think like the thing I do with people like when you go out to dinner, you think it's
32:07
just too weird when the server asks after they put their plate, your plate flew down
32:11
in front of you, hey, is there anything else I can get for y'all?
32:14
You just think it's too weird to say, hey, we're about to pray for our meal.
32:18
How can we be praying for you? Just too weird.
32:21
And you haven't practiced saying those words out of your face hole in that order.
32:24
And so when the time comes, you haven't made the decision to do it yet.
32:27
You haven't predesided that that's what you're going to do.
32:29
And so then you just don't do it because it's just too weird, right?
32:31
Kind of when we were talking about guys that don't pray with their wife, it's just too
32:34
weird.
32:35
They just don't want to do it.
32:36
They don't want to embrace the weird.
32:37
Same thing I was like, hey, how many of your patients, if before you were to take their
32:41
baby into surgery, and you said, mom, dad, come over here, we're going to circle around
32:47
your child.
32:48
We're going to pray over them real quick.
32:49
I would love for you to join me and you invite the nurses and you all that.
32:52
Now you're not saying, hey, nurses do this or you're fired, right?
32:55
Because you get crossways with hospital administrators and stuff like that.
32:58
But it's like you're welcoming somebody into your world.
33:03
It's not straight evangelism.
33:05
It's not, hey, I can't let you work in this facility unless you believe exactly I do as
33:10
I do in the same theological boxes are checked.
33:13
But it's, it's welcoming people into an opportunity, right?
33:17
So whether you're asking people strangers or people, you know, how can I be praying for
33:21
you?
33:22
What can I be praying for you about?
33:23
Hey, would you like to come with me to church?
33:26
Hey, I'm inviting you to church this Sunday at faith Bible at the 11 o'clock service or
33:31
whatever.
33:32
But then there's the things that you don't say that don't have Christianese language
33:35
all over it.
33:36
That is still part of your testimony on a weekly basis.
33:39
But yeah, I do like people to think in terms of if there were a drone following me around
33:44
taking video and a team of, you know, prosecutors were trying to put together a case to convict
33:49
you of being a Christian.
33:50
Would there be enough evidence?
33:51
Yeah.
33:52
Again, it's following you around, not just in your office.
33:54
Like are you, are you praying at all during this time?
33:57
Are you studying the Bible at all during this time?
33:59
Have you shared Christ with somebody?
34:01
Have you prayed with somebody?
34:02
Have you done anything that could potentially get you convicted in a court of law?
34:07
I don't want to speak for you, Adam, but I know, I know for me, it's like the, the area
34:11
I think I'm probably more self-conscious about, okay, you, you can tell I'm a Christian has
34:16
been at work because it's just, there's more to lose.
34:20
There's more to lose there.
34:21
It was always the biggest struggle for me.
34:24
And I always, I mean, because yeah, everyday life, yeah, I, I go to Bible studies.
34:29
I'm a church on Sundays, I pray, you know, I frequently catch myself repenting for my
34:35
sinful behavior on the, on the road whenever I'm driving around.
34:40
But at the same time, it's like, okay, when I go to work, you know, I can't just turn
34:44
this, I'm not supposed to just turn this off.
34:46
I can't just turn this off.
34:48
How do I actually, how can I actually, if you were going to follow me with that drone,
34:53
how would you see it?
34:55
And especially in some environments where it's just not welcome.
34:58
Like people, I mean, it's, it's not there.
35:01
And so a couple of things that I've done, I've, I, I wrote, do nothing from selfish ambition
35:08
or conceit, but in humility, count others more significant than yourselves.
35:14
Wrote that on a whiteboard.
35:15
That's Philippians two, three.
35:16
I did not write Philippians two, three underneath it.
35:18
I just wrote that on a whiteboard.
35:21
And then people would come into my office and they'd be like, Hey, I like that.
35:23
Where'd you get that?
35:24
And I go, that's from, that's Philippians two, three.
35:28
Phil Robertson, you've talked about this.
35:30
You got the new buy your new Bible.
35:31
Yeah.
35:32
Yeah.
35:33
Phil Robertson always had a Bible within arms reach.
35:34
Yeah.
35:35
Okay.
35:36
I'm, you know, I'm over here going, okay, I'm going to have to find one that I can just
35:39
put on my desk.
35:40
And it's just there.
35:41
I've got crosses in my office that my daughter's made me.
35:44
Okay.
35:45
But there's just different things that it's like, and then the other thing, the CPA exam,
35:50
every employee that I have, when they say, Hey, I've got one scheduled and I'm just like,
35:53
what time is it?
35:54
What time are you taking it?
35:55
What dare you taking it?
35:56
And they're like, Oh, this, you know, this and this, you know, they're taking it on Saturday
36:00
and it's going to be a day to am okay.
36:02
At 755, set a reminder on your phone to text me so that I, my wife and I can pray for you.
36:09
And it was funny is I had a young man who was gay working for me.
36:17
And he did that.
36:18
He only passed one exam and that was it.
36:21
He passed that one.
36:22
And then he was just like, every time, every before, every time he had never passed one
36:26
before and he passed that one.
36:28
And every time he went back, he's like, can you pray for me?
36:30
Can you pray for me?
36:31
Can you pray for me?
36:32
And it's like, yeah, by the way, I'm not just praying for you for this.
36:35
I'm praying you for a lot of reasons, but, but I absolutely.
36:40
So there's little things that you can do that just kind of open up that conversation, even
36:44
though, yeah, I mean, as much as I would love to go in and be as bold as you are, I can't
36:49
do that.
36:50
Not at work.
36:51
But it's not something that would be received well there, or as well, I should say.
36:57
I think it's important for us to remember, too, that we can't really comprehend the idea
37:04
that he is saying here of how they were ashamed of the gospel of this story and that it was
37:11
directly related to a humiliation factor that you would put the person that you're now going
37:19
to put in charge of your life as someone who got raped across this for us.
37:26
It would be media.
37:27
It would be whatever, whatever the outlet is that we would see Christ just completely
37:34
get obliterated on something and say, that's my savior.
37:39
So part of me thinks, I don't know if we'll ever really understand the level.
37:44
We have a different type of a shameless.
37:47
Maybe this kind of calls us back to the idea of the boldness that we should have.
37:53
I think a lot of people in the Roman church, if they would have said, "Hold on, you're
37:56
telling me that in 2025, people are just going to be casually wearing crosses to represent
38:04
Jesus?"
38:05
They wouldn't even have a category for that.
38:06
This idea that this horrible, murderous death machine, that wasn't even a machine, this
38:18
death march that you would almost not even be able to watch somebody go through.
38:25
That that is somehow going to be a symbol of purity, a symbol of faith, a symbol of
38:31
all these things.
38:33
You're going to be ashamed?
38:34
Why are you ashamed?
38:37
You don't have the context even to understand what the shame of this meant to us back then.
38:43
We don't understand what you could possibly be ashamed of.
38:45
If you take that away, nobody would have been ashamed.
38:48
Well, Russ, I think a derivative of that is the scenario that I think most Christians
38:52
have put themselves in.
38:54
Since you brought it up and you kind of went on a little bit further, most people bring
38:57
up a scenario in their brain like the Columbine example where the two shooters went in and
39:06
they were targeting anybody for murder, but they were specifically targeting Christians
39:10
as well.
39:11
They're verified stories of people that are walked up to and it's like, "Are you a Christian?
39:15
Do you believe in God?"
39:16
And the answer was, "Yes, they would kill them."
39:18
The macabre part of that is it didn't matter what they said they were going to die anyway.
39:23
Those two wanted to put pipe bombs.
39:25
There were a lot of things that there were supposed to be a whole lot more bloodshed that
39:28
day and thank God there wasn't more.
39:31
But the thing that you bring up with someone like Phil Robertson, so what Jake was alluding
39:36
to is for my birthday this year, I bought myself a Bible and there's a guy named, well,
39:42
there's a book binding company in Oakland City called Ace Book binding, third generation
39:46
book binders and they will rebind an old Bible.
39:50
So if you wanted to have your Bible kind of rebound, but you wanted to keep your pages,
39:54
you'd get a new cover, you get to pick the color, how many ribbons, like get your name
39:57
on the front, like all the different things.
40:00
And on the spine of this Bible, I got the Robertson arrows.
40:05
So there's the down arrow, which symbolizes God's in his son to earth.
40:09
There's the cross, so he was crucified on a cross.
40:13
Then there's the empty tomb because he was raised from the dead.
40:16
Then there's an upward arrow, which is that God ascended to heaven and all we're waiting
40:20
on is the last thing.
40:21
It's a downward arrow for him to come back for his bride.
40:24
That's the gospel right there and it's right there on the spine, right?
40:28
And so I have that for the express purpose that when I'm sitting in it, this happened
40:32
Friday, when I'm sitting in a doctor's office waiting to get my name called to go back,
40:38
what do I normally pull out, my phone, right?
40:41
What am I looking at?
40:42
Ah, email, respond to some texts, scroll on Instagram, scroll on Twitter, whatever the
40:46
thing is.
40:48
But in order for me to pull my phone out, I would have to set my Bible down, which is
40:52
a triggering mechanism for me now to, nope.
40:56
And so I opened it to Romans one and I started reading Romans one, hadn't had my name called
41:00
Romans two.
41:01
And when you know it, I read the last word of Romans two and nurse comes out, Mr.
41:06
Thompson, you know, that type of a thing.
41:08
So I'm in a crowded, you know, lobby, right?
41:13
And there's every, every single person that's seated is on their phone, right, including
41:16
some of the children.
41:17
And here I am with my Bible in my hand.
41:20
Now is that me standing up on the chair and street preacher of angelizing?
41:24
No.
41:25
Is it odd?
41:26
Yeah.
41:27
Is it a break or, you know, a break in the mechanism?
41:30
Yeah.
41:31
Is anybody curious about what I'm reading?
41:33
Nope.
41:34
Looks like a Bible is a Bible.
41:35
Right?
41:36
Yeah.
41:37
There's no, I'm not, there's, it's not a novel.
41:38
It's not some random self-help book, like it, it's the Bible.
41:42
And so that is something that you can do because Phil, when, whether we were like at his house
41:48
in the podcast studio in the, the duck hunting shop or all that, his Bible was either in
41:55
his hands or within arms reach.
41:58
So when we were doing our interviews, one time when I interviewed him over, you know,
42:01
the computer and he's sitting in his, you know, chair in his living room, or when we
42:05
were sitting in his studio, the Bible is right there in front of him.
42:08
It's well worn.
42:09
And he knows exactly what he's turning to, to get to the point he wants to make.
42:13
And then he knows exactly where he's turning to, to get to the point he wants to make over
42:16
here.
42:17
Why do you think that is?
42:18
He's not known a phone.
42:19
The man has never owned a watch.
42:21
And so if he's not watching gun smoke or the weather, right, he's, he's reading his Bible.
42:28
What, what do all of us do for fun to fill, to fill time movies?
42:31
Nope.
42:32
He's not watching that.
42:33
Binging Netflix.
42:34
Nope.
42:35
Not doing that.
42:36
Going from YouTube video to YouTube video to YouTube video.
42:37
Me running podcast after podcast after podcast, Phil, it was the word of God right there
42:42
in front of him.
42:43
Right.
42:44
And maybe seal a big time marathon runner guy.
42:48
He was just on Joe Rogan experience, just got saved not that long ago.
42:51
And he is the epitome, him and Phil Robertson, of it's not how many years you've been a Christian.
42:54
It's how many hours because at one point, Chad, he wasn't flexing.
42:57
He just mentioned, you know, he studies the Bible two to three hours a day.
43:02
How many of us are Christians and we will check 2025 is another year being a Christian.
43:07
We will have not studied the Bible for two or three hours this year.
43:11
And so it's one of those things when, when you're talking about being unashamed, it's
43:15
kind of what happened when pendulep.
43:17
So of pen and teller.
43:18
So pendulep.
43:19
It's a big time atheist.
43:20
It was very famous.
43:21
He's like, I don't trust Christians who don't evangelize because if you honestly believe
43:27
that if I maintain my atheism until the moment that I died, that I will go to hell, it is
43:31
a special form of hate that you would not try to convert me and you want to talk about
43:36
conviction.
43:37
I was a pastor throwing down the gauntlet, even though he's an atheist and not a pastor,
43:42
right?
43:43
Because it's like, why wouldn't you share this supposed good news that you have?
43:47
Why would you not be a messenger for that good news?
43:51
Yeah, I got to take a drink.
43:55
Somebody say something.
43:56
I'm ready to go to 17.
43:58
We did.
43:59
We did talk briefly about Martin Luther.
44:00
I think it's worth, it's worth mentioning that in his last sermon, his last sermon was
44:05
related to the gospel and he warned, and this was in on February 15th, 1546.
44:13
He warned people on prior occasions that anytime the gospel is preached accurately and passionately,
44:19
it will bring conflict.
44:21
And since people flee from conflict, every generation will tend to water down, man, do
44:26
we see that today, nonstop, let's water it down and that's what we're about to get to
44:31
when we start breaking into 18 and on, watering down and hiding the gospel, allowing it to
44:37
be eclipsed by darkness as it had been for centuries before the Reformation.
44:41
Man, that was, what, 500 years ago that we're talking about that he's warning us.
44:47
He's warning us about this.
44:48
They're doing the exact same thing then that's happening now.
44:51
It's like, oh, that feels icky.
44:53
That doesn't feel good.
44:54
I don't really like that.
44:55
Let's just not talk about it.
44:58
I don't talk about it because now I'm going to start losing my congregation.
45:01
I'm going to start losing my time.
45:03
I'm going to start, you know, Baylor University, who's Kyle's talked about this on the podcast
45:08
before, Baylor near and dear to my heart, man, they are unfortunately potentially lost.
45:14
They are really going down a bad path because they've decided, you know what, it's too difficult
45:20
to stand on the truth.
45:21
It's too difficult to stand on what the Bible actually says is right and is wrong.
45:28
You kind of listed a few things you might lose there.
45:33
You might lose friends.
45:35
You might lose family.
45:36
I mean, the Nabil Kureshi book, you know, him, I mean, how close, you could see how close
45:42
and loving his family was and his acceptance of Christ as his Savior, just his family just
45:49
disowned him.
45:50
I mean, it's just done.
45:51
Jesus told us that was going to happen, brother, his brother, father against us.
45:56
But the idea that, you know, you're not going to be liked.
45:59
I mean, that's not the idea of behind Christianity.
46:01
That's not the idea behind following Christ is that suddenly everybody's going to like
46:05
you.
46:06
This is awesome.
46:07
You know, no, you're going to lose some things.
46:08
And I always just trying to remind myself, like you do have some friends, you might have,
46:13
you have some friends and you have some family that if they don't know Christ and you aren't
46:17
sharing that with them, just know that you've accepted that they will not join you in eternity.
46:24
That's, I mean, you've just accepted that.
46:26
It's like, I'm fine.
46:27
I'm fine in my death.
46:29
I'm fine knowing that I did not even try because I guess I just really wanted to have that
46:36
communion with him on earth and heavenly communion is just doesn't matter.
46:42
That's what Mike Dragotch shout out Mike Dragotch with Project Savior Outdoors.
46:48
When he shares the gospel, because I've told him that he's like a sawed off kind of a dude,
46:52
like alligator Wrangler, bare knuckle boxer MMA fighter, like he was shot and if his buddy
46:58
that was at the party with him wasn't a hunter, Mike would be dead today because his, he got
47:03
shot with a 45 from point blank range and just in his panic took off running sprinting.
47:09
Well, he was bleeding out, passes out in some strangers backyard.
47:14
And if his buddy wasn't a hunter, he wouldn't have known to try to track the blood, tracked
47:17
his blood, found Mike, you know, passed out bleeding out dying.
47:19
And is this the Florida guy, Florida guy out of Jacksonville, right?
47:24
The way that dude evangelizes like it's with such a ferocity, but also such a, it's very
47:32
pointed to where he's just like, man, I don't want to be in heaven without you someday, right?
47:37
That's why I want you to be a Christian, right?
47:39
I'm going to be selfish.
47:40
I don't want to be there without you.
47:42
I want you to be there with me.
47:43
I want you to have the same faith that I do.
47:45
It's the same thing whenever Mike Ritland, I've talked about this on the show before,
47:49
but he had, there was like a second or third appearance on the show and, you know, he's,
47:52
he's got a mouth on him and he just like, Oh, what F do you care if I'm a believing God
47:56
or not?
47:57
Just because he had started to get just frustrated with the constant, you know, peppering in
48:01
the questions.
48:02
He's a very respectful guy.
48:03
He wasn't being rude.
48:04
Oh, it may sound rude, but I didn't take it as rude.
48:06
But he was just like, honestly, what F do you care?
48:08
And I'm like, because I love you, Mike, because if like you're right and I'm wrong, we're
48:14
both warm food.
48:15
Yeah.
48:16
None of this matters.
48:17
But if I'm right and you're wrong, it's everything.
48:20
And if I didn't tell you, then I bear partial responsibility, which again, when you get into
48:25
the election and all that kind of stuff, I bear technically no responsibility.
48:28
You know, I'm just going to be judged for whether or not I was, you know, put my yes
48:31
down and actually stuck to it or not as a pertain to evangelism.
48:34
Um, but as it pertains to 16, I don't know that we're going to really get to 17 because
48:40
in 16, we haven't even gone over for it is the power of God for salvation.
48:45
So it's not that the gospel is powerful.
48:48
It said it is power.
48:50
Like that's just a very different and interesting way of putting it, like, because it's one
48:55
thing to say, Oh, what a powerful statement.
48:56
Oh, what a powerful book that was, Oh, that's really got a lot of power.
48:59
Like, no, no, it is power.
49:01
It's not like God is loving.
49:03
God is love.
49:05
And I found that to be very interesting as you're kind of thinking through why you're
49:09
on a shame.
49:10
It's like, well, that's a reason.
49:11
And I am not going to open the door of the Calvinism Armenian thing again, at least that's
49:17
not my intention.
49:18
But here we go to everyone who believes.
49:21
It's like that feels like it's my choice.
49:24
That feels like it's my choice to believe who who who is it?
49:28
It's the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes that feels contradictory to what
49:35
I said earlier.
49:36
Right?
49:37
It's like I'm making that choice because I chose to believe or I chose not to believe.
49:41
I love the thing that you said that Mark did where I was talking about the guy that just
49:46
said mystery.
49:47
Yeah.
49:48
It stepped back.
49:49
It reminded me while we were in Israel, we had a guide, Yehuda.
49:53
And he would be telling us these stories of different places.
49:57
And all the time, he would stop the story and he would just pause and not really give an
50:02
explanation.
50:03
He'd be like, yeah, these, this, this happened here, this happened here.
50:06
And he would kind of look and be like, and we don't know how that happened.
50:10
And then he would just pause and he would kind of point up in there.
50:14
And I mean, that's all like some of the scripture you get to it and you just should look around
50:20
and kind of be like, ooh, pointing up, like, like, go ask him, go talk to him about it.
50:26
But yeah, I like them.
50:28
So just going to talk about this openly.
50:31
So there's more that we could say on 16.
50:34
I don't feel like we can sufficiently really get into 17 because it's, I mean, it's, it's
50:38
busting out some things like the righteousness of God, how it's received, grace through faith.
50:44
You know, there's some reference to Habakkuk here.
50:46
So let's give some final thoughts on Romans 1, 16, and then we'll go ahead and wrap up
50:52
our session.
50:53
And then the next, the next grouping will, we'll start at 17.
50:56
So final thoughts on 16 or any other thoughts as it pertains to being unashamed to the
51:02
gospel of Christ.
51:03
So I think that it's really neat to see here, Paul always gives due respect to the Jews
51:09
and what they meant to God about the bringing of the scriptures.
51:15
And so here even he gives them priority and say, first to the Jews, like this was to be
51:20
revealed to the Jews, this is their promise.
51:23
This is their promise.
51:24
And part of their promise was to be a light into all the world that like, it was almost
51:28
like the Jewish people forgot that the big part of their promise was not just for the
51:33
them, it was actually that they would be blessing the rest of the world.
51:38
And Paul is always so respectful to put them in line to let them be shown that they were
51:46
God special, special people.
51:48
They had a special place in his heart.
51:50
He had a special covenant with them.
51:52
This new covenant does not deny that that wasn't a special covenant.
51:56
It actually proclaims that that special covenant through them was made known to the world.
52:02
And so I just always think it's really neat to pay them respect and to the way that he
52:09
pays them respect and acknowledges their special place before the Lord.
52:19
That can't be it.
52:21
No, it's not.
52:23
I mean, yeah, Russ, I'm glad you brought that up because I literally, I wanted to ask like,
52:28
what does he mean first to the Jew first and also to the Greek and that does make sense.
52:37
I mean, and again, I think, I mean, Adam, you didn't want to talk about it, but I think
52:43
it's also when you talk, I mean, every time I start thinking, every time I start thinking
52:48
about being chosen or the elect, to me, my mind goes to the Jewish people.
52:54
When they start talking about who was chosen and who's been elected, I, especially when
52:58
you're talking about Paul writing, this is, he's been saturated in the idea that he is
53:05
one of the chosen people of God.
53:08
He's been saturated in that.
53:10
So him looking at everything through that prism is not going to be shocking to me that
53:16
he would start talking about, well, we, you know, we the chosen or we the elect, it wouldn't
53:22
shock me that they, because God did choose them and, you know, not because of anything
53:28
they did, not because any, they, not because they were special in and of themselves.
53:33
He chose them for the purpose of fulfilling his end goal, which was bringing Christ to
53:39
this earth to die for our sins and give us a way back to him.
53:44
I like the, I'll caveat that with, he found one of them to be faithful, which goes along
53:49
with what we will later see 17 is that the faith is, is the uniting party there.
53:56
But, but also this was written to Gentiles, not to the Jews.
54:00
Romans?
54:01
Well, just in general that, I mean, that's who he's speaking to, because the Jews are,
54:06
the Jews are gone.
54:07
They've been kicked out.
54:08
So, so this is primarily to, to the Gentiles.
54:10
It's not that it's meant, not it's meant for both, but that's who he specifically addressing.
54:15
Mm hmm.
54:16
Yeah.
54:17
But also, he does have a Jewish, I will say to the Jewish crowd of this later on in Romans,
54:25
he talks specifically a long bit about circumcision and he is talking definitely, yes, definitely
54:31
to a bunch of chapter seven, eight, nine, or almost a past, present, and future.
54:37
Because he tells them, he said, if, if you lived an uncircumcised lifestyle, then it
54:43
would, it would be just the same as being uncircumcised.
54:45
So I will say, yeah, there must be some heritage Jews still there, I don't know how, you know,
54:52
why he would be bringing up the, again, and I was, I'll go back and point to it.
54:57
I mean, several times in Romans, even, even here, the righteous shall live by faith.
55:01
He's quoting Habakkuk in the next verse, which we're not talking about today.
55:05
But he's quoting at, he's quoting that, that verse means nothing to a Gentile.
55:11
It means nothing, but then you think back that the Jewish people, especially, you know,
55:17
they're reciting the Torah, I mean, most of them, most of them had it memorized.
55:23
And so when you would quote Old Testament scripture in, when Paul would quote Old Testament scripture
55:29
to a Jew, they would be like, right there, that's Habakkuk chapter two, verses two through
55:33
four, he would know, they would know that.
55:36
So I always say it's like anytime when you start reading through this and you start seeing
55:42
Paul or even Christ himself reference Old Testament scripture, they almost have to be
55:49
talking to the Jewish people at that point, make no mistake.
55:53
I agree.
55:54
He's writing to Gentiles here.
55:55
He's been clear on that on who he's, you know, and that's why it's taken him so long
55:59
to get there.
56:00
So he is, but there is going to, I don't want to say that this is, well, no, he's just
56:04
writing to them because it's like, yeah, he's quoting Old Testament scripture here.
56:07
I just don't know why he would do that outside of, I'm trying to also rope in the Jews into
56:11
the same faithful obedience.
56:13
I would say as well, perhaps we have a little bit of hindsight.
56:19
Do we know that Paul knows that the emperor has ran most of the Jews out at this point?
56:23
Maybe yes, maybe no.
56:25
And so he's writing for a mixed audience.
56:29
But even if he does know, he's like, okay, I know I'm writing to Gentiles, but this letter
56:33
is going to persist, and I have faith that the Jews will be back in Rome.
56:37
So most people believe too that whether they were there or not at that time, I believe,
56:42
correct me if I'm wrong, that it's thought that that church was started because everybody
56:47
had come to Jerusalem for the Passover and things like that, and then had left.
56:54
So there's a lot of converts that maybe in Rome that had been there that were Jewish.
57:00
So the church at least was probably started by some Jewish heritage that taught them what
57:06
it meant that Christ had paid this debt that cleared the Jewish Old Testament.
57:12
And so I don't know.
57:13
That's fulfilled a lot.
57:14
Yeah.
57:15
Even if there weren't Jews there, there were probably Gentiles or Greeks who were taught
57:21
by Jews who Jesus was, and they would have taught the importance of you weren't a Jew,
57:28
but this is what we believe, he came and fulfilled all this stuff.
57:31
Now this has opened up to you.
57:33
They probably had some acknowledgement of that, whether they were Jews themselves or not or
57:37
Jewish converts, yeah.
57:41
Last word on you.
57:43
Funnel word.
57:44
So I would just go ahead and wrap up by saying we've come to the beginning to now we're at
57:49
chapter 16, and as we continue on in these coming weeks, it's going to become a significant
57:54
transition.
57:55
So I feel like there's something that I've came up with that I want to read at the end
57:59
that I think will be a good transition into what's coming because it's going to get a
58:03
lot heavier from here on.
58:05
So Paul did not write Romans 1 to tiptoe around the truth.
58:09
He was writing to men in the heart of the empire, men surrounded by corruption, sexual
58:13
morality and adultery, just like we are today.
58:17
The world is working overtime to tame men to make us passive, to make us spectators instead
58:21
of warriors.
58:22
So Romans 1 reminds us truth is under assault, sin is celebrated and God's wrath is real.
58:27
So what do we do about it?
58:29
Don't be ashamed of the gospel.
58:31
Hold tight like it's a battle standard it is.
58:34
Refused about idols of this world, money, lust, comfort, reputation.
58:38
Sin will recruit you and slave you and try to make you its trophy.
58:42
Don't negotiate with it.
58:43
Kill it before it kills you.
58:46
Lead like a lion.
58:47
Your family, your brothers, your community needs men to lead with conviction who protect
58:52
who fight for the weak.
58:53
The lion of Judah didn't come to encourage passivity and complacency.
58:57
He came to forge warriors.
58:59
So step into the fight, stay unashamed, and will the culture cheer sin be ready to stand
59:04
in the gap, proclaim the true gospel, and be prepared for the consequences and the future
59:09
glory.
59:10
You write that?
59:11
I mean, I wrote some of it.
59:13
I will say to you.
59:14
Don't let give Adam any credit.
59:17
I will be a hundred percent honest, I probably did twenty seven percent.
59:22
Roughly.
59:23
Chat GBT helped me with seventy three percent.
59:25
Roger that.
59:26
Well, I'm good with it.
59:27
I think it actually worked out.
59:28
Storage checks out.
59:29
But I mean, my final word on it is just it's a scripture that you mentioned earlier, Adam,
59:34
and it's Mark 838 for whoever is this is Jesus now, for whoever is ashamed of me and
59:39
of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation of him, will the son of man also
59:44
be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his father with the holy angels.
59:49
And so if you're a person that really needs motivation, that's what you operate on every
59:53
day is whether or not you can have enough motivation to do the stuff that you know previously
59:56
that you're supposed to do anyway.
59:58
Let that be your motivation.
59:59
Okay.
1:00:00
Like, man, perhaps you can turn that into discipline so you're not looking around for motivation
1:00:03
at all times.
1:00:04
You're looking around for that one quote or that one, you know, you know, cute picture
1:00:08
on Instagram, whatever that's going to get you through your morning coffee or something
1:00:11
like that.
1:00:12
But that's the thing.
1:00:13
Pretty motivation.
1:00:14
That's it right there.
1:00:15
Do you want the son of man to be ashamed of you when he is be before his father before
1:00:19
he comes and gets his bride?
1:00:21
Do you want to be included in that group?
1:00:22
Do you want to be excluded in that group and how many of the people around you?
1:00:25
Do you want included in that group as well?
1:00:26
But guys, that's where we're going to leave our discussion.
1:00:29
Thank you all very much for your study and preparation as we got into this batch.
1:00:32
But next week, we're going to begin starting with Romans 1 17, so make sure you are studied
1:00:37
up through some more of the verses there in Romans.
1:00:40
But before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost added on to life.
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