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"This is Undaunted Life, a Man's Podcast.
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I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
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Welcome back to the Forging Table, the mission of Undaunted Life is equipping men to push
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back darkness with content that forges, spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
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At the Forging Table, you'll see a group of regular guys forging spiritual resilience
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and by digging into God's word and we're welcoming all of them, you know, man, alright.
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It's not my fault this time.
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It's not your fault this time.
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But you know, we're welcoming all of you to come on this journey with us.
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That's Jake.
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That's Ryan.
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That's Derek.
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What you got?
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You can't forget me with this silence.
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I love it.
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Better get used to it.
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He used to what?
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The silence.
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Enjoy the silence.
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It's like a Depeche Mode song over here.
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Derek, how awkward was that?
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It's a little awkward.
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Ryan had to be the one to cut the awkwardness, right?
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You couldn't just let it go.
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You couldn't just be quiet over there.
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You had to say something.
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I felt bad for you, man.
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Today we learned about mercy.
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I literally gave you a four hour notice that we were going to make Derek feel awkward
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and you were the one that ended up being on awkward.
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I was scolded not to laugh, and I held it together.
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You're very proud of myself.
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The thing I told Jake to have in mind to keep him alive was I'm not going to say it.
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There's no way I'm going to say it on the show, but I will tell you afterwards I told
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him to think about it.
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But the reason why is Derek, because I think of all the people that have come on the forging
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table, your per episode word average is probably the lowest out of everybody.
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And you are up against it today because you have Jake and Ryan here.
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This is one of the worst possible setups for a guy like you that likes hearing other people
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talk more than you like hearing yourself talk.
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Yeah, I definitely do.
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You're going to be okay.
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I'll be all right.
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Because what we're going to do today is we're going to do our absolute level best to not
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like cut you off.
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Because we kind of get around and we get into other people's sentences and whatever and
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stuff like that.
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But you got a lot of good things to say and I want you to have the wide breath to say
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it.
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I'll do my best to point out, okay, I got something to say, but I usually don't.
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It's like an automatic mute once Derek does this.
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Go ahead.
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That's right.
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Okay, I'm in.
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I think I think we should have Derek read just the whole time.
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Like none of us read.
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That's a lot of reading.
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You would be the one to say that because you don't want to accidentally get one of the
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sections where it's just a bunch of names.
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I did that last time and you did.
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You didn't kill it.
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You murdered it.
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You genocide it.
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Maybe probably shouldn't said that.
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But like I'm just saying like you did a great job.
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It was actually it was actually I told my wife I did a good job.
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She just rolled her eyes at me like she's like you, you're so full of yourself.
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I was like, you don't know.
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I read good.
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Yeah.
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I was like, you don't know how much crap I get on there for like messing up names like
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did you?
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Did you know her during your referring to yourself in the third person face or is that
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like right towards the end?
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Oh, she's the one that kind of broke me of it.
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That's probably why she didn't give a crap about the fact that you read good and you're
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bragging on yourself.
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She's like, if I put gasoline into this vehicle, this is going to be bad for everybody.
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She will return.
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You know what, the next time you teach Sunday school, because it's not called by both Felship,
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like I think you should just refer to yourself the third person and just own it like just
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and because most people won't be in on the joke, they're going to be like, what is he?
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What is happening right now?
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And just wait until the very end and be like, yeah, this is actually less than in humility.
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Do you know the baseball player who used to refer to himself?
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Ricky Henderson.
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Right.
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Ricky will be on first base to be talking a little clog about Ricky about a still second.
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Ricky Gown, Ricky Gown, but I will say, I personally have been looking forward to this
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batch of the forging table for a very long time, right?
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We're talking months.
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And the reason is, is because Jake Young been on in a while and we talked about this,
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but you know, I've talked about Laura, the rings on the show a little bit and I've talked
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about how I'm not really bad and I watched one and a half of the things, you know, twenty
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something years ago, but out of nowhere, my wife a few months ago goes, you know, I'd
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actually like to watch Lord of the Rings.
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Like we were not talking about movies, we're not talking about, Hey, what should we watch
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next?
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And she had just heard about it so much in culture, she had never watched it, she doesn't
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really, you know, get any of the, you know, Lord of the Rings jokes or any of those types
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of things.
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And so I was like, in immediately in that moment, I didn't think, nah, you know, you know, castigate
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or tell her she's a moron.
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It was like, no, let's, let's think about this.
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So we tell the weather ring super fan, Jake and Jake, like, like any good accountant,
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the spreadsheet guy, we, we told you are our problem.
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Yes.
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And our problem was is these movies are three, three and a half hours long, we, we couldn't
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possibly sit there and watch that just with the kids and when we go to bed.
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And so you took it upon yourself and you broke down the entire trilogy, the extended versions
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of each movie into one hour to an hour, 15 minute chunks for the benefit of Kelsey and
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I.
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And so for that, we are so thankful that you took time out of your day to do it.
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And so here we are.
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I really wanted you to like it.
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How was it?
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No.
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Well, I'm getting there, Ryan.
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If you'll let me slowly build goodness gracious, read the room.
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This is twice now.
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That's two strikes and we're like less than five minutes into here.
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You busted up the tension with him and now you're not letting me do my slow build.
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The tension was already there.
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He was about to cry.
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You let it build.
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I see now you're changing the subject.
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I'm the first person to cry.
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I'm used to silence.
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I'm good.
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You know.
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So there we are.
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Okay.
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We're watching Lord of the Rings.
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Okay.
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And we watched the first one, right?
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Fellowship of the ring took us a couple of weeks to get through it.
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I mean, but we're excited.
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We're like, we're wanting to give this like full effort and full energy and Kelsey is
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very positive.
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Like she's, she can think of one movie ever that she watched that she didn't like.
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It was, I think it was called Brave New World with Colin Farrell.
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I don't know.
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That was, it's like 30 years old.
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I don't know.
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Okay.
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So we're watching the first one.
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We're watching the second one and then we finish the third one and we don't talk about
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it like in between episodes.
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Like, hey, how do you think it's going and not episode, but movies like, you know, those
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types of things and we just kind of get to the end and collectively as a house, we give
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Lord of the Rings, she gave it a six out of 10.
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I gave it a four out of 10 for a myriad of reasons and you're, I'm just going to give
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you a few reasons.
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You guys feel free to chime in, but I've got four reasons why the Lord of the Rings trilogy
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might be the most overrated trilogy of all time.
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Okay.
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So here, some of these things, these are just think things.
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First of all, Frodo is the worst.
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I wanted him to die from the first 30 minutes of the first film throughout the entire end.
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Awful.
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I couldn't stop thinking about the fact that Russell Crowe was supposed to be Aragorn because
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I would have made the movie.
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Wouldn't that have been something?
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I would probably be singing off a different sheet of music because Russell Crowe is like
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my absolute favorite.
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The stairs to Mordor apparently are like the most important thing, but there's no one
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there to guard it, but we're just going to like ignore that, I guess.
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Oh, I got a good reason for that.
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Okay.
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What's your rule?
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Let's go ahead.
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What's your good reason?
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Well, okay.
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So you have to take into context.
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There's the stairs of Mordor, but by the time they actually get to the stairs of Mordor,
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they had already fought a battle at Minas Tirith.
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So army had been largely wiped out and you had a remaining portion of the army that Sauron
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had that's there.
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And he only knows that there's hobbits who have the ring and there's hobbits who are
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outside with the remaining military from Middle Earth that are coming at the gate with Aragorn.
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Who's the king?
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Okay.
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So I'll take that off my list.
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Okay.
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There you go.
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You've convinced me to take one thing off my list, but let me get through through the rest
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of my list.
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All right.
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Orlando Bloom might be the worst.
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I cannot stand him in just about any film whatsoever.
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There was a girl power moment in one of these movies, this like blonde chick.
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She killed a dragon and like she's like, no man or the someone said, no man can kill me
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and she says, I am no man.
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And then she kills the ultimate bad guy, this little like 110 pound blonde chick super lame.
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The only touching moment was that ever book.
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I have no idea.
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We're not going to get to the books.
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Okay.
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I wonder if it was in the book, probably in the books.
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The only touching moment was when the crappy king said that the wrong son died like that
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and brought like a tear to my eye.
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I don't even know who it was.
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Now I will say in the third movie, those elephants, the bad guys on the elephants, those are
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super cool.
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So let's go and say like the mammoth elephant like people thing.
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The fact that there are extended editions of these movies is absolutely insane because
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I feel like the entire thing could have been one two hour movie and people are spending
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like 11 hours watching this entire thing.
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But here are the biggest reasons why the Lord of the Rings trilogy and we'll go one by
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one.
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Those were the reasons and you know, those were just, those were just points.
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That was your appetizer.
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Look, we got a couple of guys here that could say, Kyle, you're off your rocker and no calm
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with you.
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But here are four main reasons that I just cannot get over.
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The fact that I even gave it four out of 10 stars, I wanted to give it that's okay.
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The first one might be the most egregious plot hole that I've ever experienced in my
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entire life.
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And I am not good at seeing plot holes in movies and people are like, oh, there's such
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a big plot hole.
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I mean, it's quite an 8 or 2, man.
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Are we going to go there again?
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I thought we were past this.
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Okay.
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You hush.
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You're five minutes.
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No, no talk.
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So, Jake, there's this undead zombie army that the entire time it's just in the woods
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somewhere existing and Aragorn just kind of, Oh, I remember there's an undead army that
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if I can just convince them to be on my team, do you have notes there?
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Are you ready to go?
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Like with your notes?
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No.
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All we got to do is get this undead army to come and fight for us and it'll be awesome.
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So that's kind of dumb.
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You could have just gone there from the beginning.
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But again, there's like two and a half films that you have to get through.
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But then there's a reason for that.
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They have them fight in the penultimate battle, not the final one.
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They let the undead zombie army go before the final, final battle.
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Okay.
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What?
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Like I got you.
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Tell me.
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Tell me.
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They couldn't get.
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They could not get.
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They could not get that army until the blade was remade.
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Why?
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Because that's the signifier of the actual king because there wasn't a king at Ministereth.
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Okay.
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So they redid it.
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But now why let him go before the last battle?
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It's an army of dudes.
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I can't die.
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That was his word.
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I mean, it's a matter of he said that if they fought this battle that he would release
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them, they did.
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And he released them.
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What a stupid, stupid king he is.
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Just saying?
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Like to say it like.
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Or is he a benevolent king?
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Oh, yeah.
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He's so benevolent.
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He's so benevolent that he the one thing that could guarantee victory.
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He's like, you know what?
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We'll chance it on this battle after the after this one.
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These are these were a group of men who were cursed by a previous king for not showing
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up in battle.
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They were cowardly.
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They didn't want to stick around anymore.
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I mean, they had already revealed their character.
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They come back.
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They fight one time to be relieved of a curse.
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I'm just saying it's the flaw of it's it again.
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It's the flaw of man.
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The thing is.
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The thing is, is I look at the Lord.
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The Lord of the Rings is basically just a treatise on the flaws that remain in men at
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all times.
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So.
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Okay.
11:21
Can't get a break in five minutes.
11:22
Okay.
11:23
Yeah.
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Your five minutes is all right.
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I just have a question.
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Like how bad of a king do you have to be to not have the forethought to think of like, hey,
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I'm going to have extra battles.
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And I'm going to go ahead and just like, yeah, I'm just going to visit these guys to do
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one.
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I got this super.
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Hey, you guys are really lazy.
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Let me let me get you guys to do this one battle.
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I'll be like, no, bro, give me four battles and I'll give you a terrible negotiation.
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Yeah.
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Horrible negotiation.
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I'm just so crow would not have allowed that.
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That's be real.
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He would have gave him a speech where they'd be like, we'll fight whatever we'll do for
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free.
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Yeah, we'll fight forever.
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Yeah.
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Like get Mel Gibson in there with him.
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Come on.
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Russell crow.
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I'm sure.
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You had legless as Mel Gibson is legless.
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And then you have Russell crows.
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Eragon.
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Do the remake.
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Boom.
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Okay.
12:04
All right.
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We got to move on past this point because I've already won that point.
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So we need to go.
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Yeah.
12:08
So you're killing me.
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Tell me that gandorke.
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Sorry, Gandalf.
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Yeah.
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He couldn't have flown.
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Frodo and his boyfriend to Mountain Doom on one of the Eagles that he flew him out
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on.
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Well, he could have flown him in.
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So good question.
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I mean, so that is the notorious plot hole that people basically can't really answer.
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Could he have summoned an Eagle to actually fly them all the way into Mountain Doom?
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Now I would make the my typical response is, okay, how many Eagles?
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How many Nazgos?
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Because remember when he flew in there, when they flew the Eagles out, a lot of the Nazgos
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had already been killed.
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So which ones were they?
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Those were the big flying dragons that got the dark.
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So there's at least seven of those.
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You know what?
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Let's bring a pilot in here.
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Derek, you're a pilot.
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Could they have flown one of these Eagles into the dang mountain from the beginning?
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I'm getting painted as a real nerd here.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It's getting worse as you keep.
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Could they have just flown them in there from the beginning?
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Yeah.
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I mean, I guess it's possible.
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Okay.
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Boom.
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So that's two points.
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I don't know.
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So we're currently when it's about the journey.
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It's about the journey journey.
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You have to have the struggle.
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Now we got another egregious thing.
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Okay.
13:17
Frodo, the worst.
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He is celebrated for having destroyed the ring, but he didn't even destroy the ring.
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He gets all the way up there.
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He has to have his boyfriend carry him all the way into the thing because I could possibly
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walk anymore.
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And then the little goblin guy or whatever his thing is, he comes, yeah, Smeagle Golem.
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He comes in there and then they get into a fight and all of a sudden he's got this
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burst energy.
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He wasn't going to destroy the ring.
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It was because in the middle of this kerfuffle, the ring falls off.
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So he gets all the accolades and he didn't even mean to do it.
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And he's the hero.
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Yeah.
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How?
13:50
Okay.
13:51
So number one, who saw him succumb to that?
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What do you mean, who?
13:55
Who saw him succumb to the temptation of, we'll call it the ring, but really it's sin.
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Who called him?
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Who, who, who saw him do that?
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He did.
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Sam.
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Sam is boyfriend.
14:06
Sam.
14:07
Were they dating?
14:08
Right.
14:09
No.
14:10
Definitely.
14:11
Sam and Gollum.
14:12
Recording the string pride month.
14:13
They were dating.
14:14
Sam and Gollum are the only two.
14:15
Gollum took the ring down with him.
14:17
Sam is the only one who knew and Sam says nothing knowing that his brother is struggling
14:23
with that hold on the ring.
14:26
So in a very real way, I would say Frodo is painted as the hero as the guy who destroyed
14:31
the ring because he threw it in the fire and destroyed it.
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But in reality, who's the real hero here?
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The hero was Sam.
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Hero was Sam in all of this story because in that moment, he says, my brother was weak.
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I carried him up into the mountain as Grasmire always say, it's the perfect foxhole illustration.
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I can't carry your sin.
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I can carry you.
14:52
I can carry you.
14:53
Yeah.
14:54
But also in that moment when his brother succumbs to sin instead of going like, well, you know,
15:01
he messed up, he could have destroyed it.
15:04
He could have thrown it in, but he didn't.
15:06
Instead of doing that, he basically remains silent and backs his brother in that moment.
15:12
To me, I go, no, it's actually way more touching if you actually don't look at necessarily
15:18
as Frodo as the penultimate hero here.
15:21
And by the way, I don't think your problem was with Frodo.
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I would say your problem is with Elijah Wood because I don't like Elijah Wood.
15:28
Sam, okay, Elijah Wood?
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No.
15:32
In what?
15:33
Every time I see him.
15:34
For ever young with Mel Gibson, I don't like him in any movie.
15:38
He just creeps me out.
15:39
So something in the eyes.
15:41
Yeah.
15:42
Every time I saw it, yeah.
15:43
But wait, you're not talking about what I'm talking about, which is the fact that Frodo
15:45
didn't mean to throw the ring in.
15:47
No, that's like, but then Sam didn't throw it in either.
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No, but Sam didn't.
15:51
How is he a hero?
15:52
He was an accident.
15:53
They destroyed it by accident.
15:54
He destroyed it by accident in a battle with Gollum, but again, which Gollum is just my
16:00
favorite character in the movie because honestly, it's essentially what it looks like to essentially
16:07
battle with sin your entire life, constantly succumb to it, put your sin on a pedestal,
16:12
and then watch yourself become a creature that you're just not meant to be.
16:18
But he succumbs to it over and over and over again.
16:21
And then this is the best part of it.
16:23
He finds somebody who seems to have mastered the sin, Frodo, and decides to give his life
16:30
over to him as opposed to abandoning the sin itself.
16:34
I, like, so Gollum in a very, and Frodo was going to actually become what Gollum was had
16:42
he had to carry that sin further.
16:44
That's actually an interesting point.
16:46
It's an interesting point.
16:47
Let me ask you this.
16:48
So what you're, so bringing around to like a real world example.
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So would this be like somebody, and I'm not, this is, there's no sarcasm here, would this
16:55
literally be like someone following a pastor and not following Christ?
16:59
Yes.
17:00
So it's like, I'm going to follow someone that seems holy, that seems to have it going on.
17:03
And then, you know, when that person falls, whether it's Michael, Michael Tate of news
17:06
boys, or Robbie Zacharias, or honey, I am, or your favorite pastor, like you're following
17:10
a pastor or a Christian celebrity and you're not following Christ.
17:14
How strong is your faith?
17:15
Okay.
17:16
I'm going to leave it on my list.
17:17
So it's three seconds.
17:18
So Sam's faith was stronger in a very real way.
17:22
Yes.
17:23
Then Frodo is what you're saying?
17:24
Yeah.
17:25
All right.
17:26
I don't want us to get too far in this because now we're actually like feeling like we're
17:27
like talking about the XB.
17:28
You know what?
17:29
I don't think I've watched this before.
17:30
It still doesn't even make me want to watch it.
17:32
But you've seen it before.
17:33
I mean, I was kind of like, I feel asleep in half of them.
17:37
Yeah.
17:38
But that's when I tried to watch it.
17:39
Yeah.
17:40
But I definitely flop through.
17:41
I slept through the first.
17:42
I liked it.
17:43
I liked it.
17:44
I've seen him probably.
17:45
I don't know.
17:46
I don't know.
17:47
I don't know.
17:48
I just point this out.
17:49
The dude's built like an orc and he's furry like a freakin' hobbit.
17:53
You know?
17:54
Yeah.
17:55
So just orcs and hobbits and goblins and elves like, oh my god, all these nerds.
17:59
Like an orc and a hobbit made a baby?
18:01
But the last thing.
18:02
Boom.
18:03
The last thing.
18:04
And this is the least egregious, but I just, by the end of the third movie, I was so ready
18:08
for it to be over.
18:09
Yeah.
18:10
And it would not end.
18:12
There were like five or six different endings.
18:15
In the dumbest possible ending, Sam, Frodo's long lost boyfriend gets up.
18:20
He's got his wife, he's just a beard for him and she's got the kids and all the different
18:24
things.
18:25
And the kid just comes up to him and he picks the kid up on his hip and then he just walks
18:29
into the house and they shut the door.
18:31
And that's the ending.
18:32
Yeah.
18:33
Like, no, you got Frodo going off on a boat trip.
18:35
I wonder what they were doing on that boat, right?
18:36
And so here they are going off on a boat trip to God knows where, for God knows what reason.
18:40
And then, you know, there's another ending where there's a wedding and there's another.
18:43
There's another ending somewhere else and then the worst posse, that's 17 endings and
18:49
they pick the worst one.
18:50
Yeah.
18:51
But they come all in there.
18:52
No, it's a great ending.
18:53
But you just say the boat was the ascension.
18:56
It's the, it's, it's Tolkien's version of the ascension.
18:58
Why would Frodo is a Christ-like figure then?
19:01
Frodo is the priest version.
19:04
So it's like priest King is Aragorn and the prophet is Gandalf.
19:08
That's, that's the, cause he was Catholic.
19:10
So he saw it in kind of the, but I'm like, Triune Trandy.
19:13
So ironically.
19:14
But that's like saying Christ went into sin and was trying to hold on to the sin.
19:17
No, no.
19:18
I mean, again, it's not like you're, you're not painting him as Jesus.
19:21
I mean, because nobody was three and one, right?
19:24
I'm not sure.
19:25
So you're not painting him literally as Jesus in that moment.
19:29
You're just saying that, but what I would say, the reason that the Sam ending, I love
19:33
that ending personally is think of it this way.
19:37
You have these monumental moments where all of the, all of Gundor's buying, bound down
19:43
to them, you then do, they go back and Sam's getting married and they take, go to the boat
19:49
and they seize Frodo off and they see Gandalf off and they're never going to see him again.
19:54
And then Sam goes back and just goes back to what he's supposed to be doing.
19:59
And it's, I'm going to go back and live my life as a family man.
20:04
But if you really wanted to look back at it, it's like I came back again, going back to
20:10
the disciples and because the fellowship of the ring is supposed to mimic the 12 disciples
20:15
in a very, in a way, okay, but Sam almost is Peter and Peter sticks behind after going
20:23
through so many travails with Jesus and essentially is called to live out the mission that he
20:27
was supposed to be doing as a, you know, his instructions from Christ.
20:31
And what did Frodo tell him to do?
20:35
Don't ever forgive me.
20:36
Don't ever let go.
20:37
So I can't remember.
20:38
What was that?
20:39
But essentially it's like his place is in the shire, his place is here.
20:42
And to go back and basically be with his family and raise a family.
20:45
So I mean, like I said, I, I mean, I've, my appreciation has grown of that film in the
20:52
trilogy since I've immersed myself more in the word.
20:57
And so I just, I just see, I see Christianity painted all over it, which I think is what
21:04
Tolkien's intent was.
21:06
Can we agree though that Peter Jackson just, he's like, okay, I have seven endings and
21:09
I can't figure out which the best one is and let's just put them all at the end to be fair,
21:13
to be fair.
21:14
I did get up three different times thinking that the movie was over when I watch it in
21:17
theater.
21:18
I had to be so bad.
21:19
He was so bad.
21:20
Is it like that in the book?
21:21
Uh huh.
21:22
Yes.
21:23
Those are like seven endings.
21:24
Well, they don't have like seven endings in the book.
21:25
It's kind of a continuation, like there's things that even on their trip back to the
21:29
Shire, they, they actually experienced some adversity, um, the group did, but they cut
21:34
that out.
21:35
Well, I think the one thing that we can agree on is that no one should ever watch Lord
21:38
of the Rings ever again.
21:39
Right?
21:40
You're shaking on America.
21:41
See right there.
21:42
Okay.
21:43
Well, you know what you're into what you're into.
21:46
Yeah.
21:47
I get it.
21:48
I just got to say I gave it full, completely like slate clean.
21:54
I was available to like Lord of the Rings and I swear to goodness it just didn't work
21:58
out.
21:59
It's fine.
22:00
It's not everybody's cup of tea.
22:01
They're long movies.
22:02
I get it.
22:03
But you watched all three.
22:04
We watched all three or it took us a couple of months to kind of get through all and some
22:07
people like, well, if you would watch them all together, I'm like, no, brother, no brother
22:10
that would have.
22:11
Keep broken up.
22:12
Really well for you.
22:13
Cause I remember getting that.
22:14
Yeah.
22:15
I showed the text around.
22:16
I was like, I was like, who now likes Lord of the Rings this month.
22:19
Wait a minute.
22:20
This is very.
22:21
Look, I was going through and being like, okay, this is about where I would stop it right
22:23
here.
22:24
Are we going through from memory or are you looking at, like, a right now?
22:28
I couldn't go through memory.
22:29
Okay.
22:30
That's okay.
22:31
Thank God.
22:32
This whole time.
22:33
This was memory.
22:34
That was my most nerve wracking question.
22:35
I had three actually because if you took it from memory, this was just not going to work.
22:39
Exactly.
22:40
One hour, 14 minutes and 33 seconds in.
22:42
That's what we thought.
22:43
We thought there was a chance.
22:44
I thought there was.
22:45
I thought I literally thought.
22:46
Well, Jake, I appreciate you defending this with every fiber of your being.
22:51
Hopefully one day you're asked to do the same for something real.
22:53
I'm not a bunch.
22:54
Unless you know, Jake, if you were ever in the hospital, I would come and hang out with
22:58
you and watch Lord of the Rings.
22:59
I appreciate that, Ryan.
23:00
You know what?
23:01
I'll dedicate to the same thing.
23:02
If you're ever in the hospital and you're like, you can't move or whatever, you're going
23:05
to watch Lord of the Rings.
23:06
I will watch it with you.
23:07
That is the only circumstance.
23:08
I'll bring the popcorn.
23:09
I'll bring the popcorn.
23:10
I fully expect Kyle and Ryan to sit there and probably roast the movie while we're watching.
23:12
Yeah.
23:13
I didn't say that.
23:14
I'll sit there.
23:15
I'll sit there.
23:16
I'll sit there quietly because while you're watching it, I'll fall asleep.
23:20
I'll be like.
23:21
No, that would be awesome.
23:22
It was a show back in the day where it was like, they would show a terrible sci-fi movie.
23:25
Mystery science theater.
23:26
Mystery science theater.
23:27
Whatever.
23:28
Yeah.
23:29
So you had like the two puppets and the guy sitting in the front and they're just roasting
23:31
the movie the entire time.
23:32
Yeah.
23:33
Yeah.
23:34
That's what we would be doing.
23:35
That's awesome.
23:36
Can you hurry up and go to the hospital so that we can like try that out?
23:37
You want something serious?
23:38
I would be telling how many gay jokes that Kyle would throw out in regards to the whole
23:42
area.
23:43
There was so many people on the side.
23:44
As long as we get to watch it in June, I think we're good.
23:46
Yeah.
23:47
Well, I mean, I would say like there would probably be a few of those before we even hit
23:50
play on the first one.
23:51
Just like, you know, we kind of get everything started.
23:53
But let's transfer from a terrible story.
23:56
That's not real to a great story that is real.
23:58
We got a lot of drama building here in this in this batch of Genesis that we're getting
24:03
into.
24:04
So guys, obviously, make sure that you're read all the way through the end of 44 because
24:07
we're going to be doing Genesis 44 today.
24:09
We're going to keep everything going with Joseph and the narrative of Joseph and his
24:13
brothers.
24:14
So Derek, this is your time to shine our friend.
24:16
So you're going to read the first 13 verses.
24:17
I don't see any really difficult words.
24:20
But hopefully there's a one in there.
24:21
I'm sure I'll screw something up.
24:22
Ready, set, go.
24:23
All right.
24:24
Then he commanded the steward of his house, fill the min sacks with food as much as they
24:29
can carry and put each man's money in the mouth of his sack and put my cup, the silver
24:34
cup in the mouth of the sack of the youngest with his money for the grain.
24:38
And he did as Joseph and I already screwed it up.
24:41
Joseph told him.
24:42
Sorry, Jovi.
24:43
Sorry.
24:44
Yep.
24:45
Sorry, Jovi.
24:46
Okay, sorry, I was not going to say anything, but we do have to do this.
24:55
We do.
24:56
This is actually appropriate.
24:57
So I get some very interesting emails from fans, right?
25:02
And some of them, a lot of them are very encouraging.
25:04
Very nice.
25:05
Like you're, this is what your show's done for me.
25:06
This is what the forage table's done for me, like all those types of things.
25:09
But out of nowhere, I get this email castigating, not only me, but everyone participating on
25:14
the foraging table for making an idol of Jovi Martin because we say, sorry, Jovi.
25:21
And at first I thought, Oh, this guy doesn't understand the joke.
25:25
And so like any great comedian, I explain the joke, right?
25:29
Because obviously it's going to be way funnier after you explain it in detail.
25:33
And no, I was confused.
25:35
He didn't.
25:36
He got the joke.
25:37
He thought we were literally creating an idol out of Jovi by saying sorry, Jovi as a
25:42
joke because we know that he listens to these episodes.
25:45
So buddy, if you're still listening to the show, I hate to inform you, you're a gigantic
25:49
moron.
25:50
But you're so are we at times and so in that way, we are all brothers.
25:54
And so you're more than welcome to continue listening.
25:56
Yeah.
25:57
I'm an idiot too.
25:58
Hey, I've gone out over my skis and I've been critical of things and I look back and
26:01
I'm like, she's that person was right.
26:03
Or I was just, you know, getting way too excited about something.
26:06
But there are secondary issues and then there's whatever issue this was because I'm giving
26:10
the guy the benefit of the doubt he thinks in his heart, we are truly making an idol
26:13
out of a pastor, something that I rail against on my show.
26:16
Don't make an idol.
26:17
All your favorite pastor, podcaster, sports star, like whatever the thing is, but my goodness.
26:23
God forbid Jovi does anything wrong.
26:25
Yeah.
26:26
He's out.
26:27
We're going to destroy him right here on the table.
26:28
I'll be the first one to be like me and Jovi.
26:29
We know you would.
26:30
Yeah.
26:31
You would be the first one.
26:32
Yeah.
26:33
No, but no, but it wouldn't.
26:34
It wouldn't shake my faith.
26:35
You know.
26:36
So Derek, we lost all the men I'm in.
26:38
Sorry, we got two verses.
26:40
You know what?
26:41
We're going to do out of reverence for the scripture.
26:43
We're going to start back over verse one.
26:45
And if you make a mistake, who cares?
26:46
We'll just keep moving.
26:47
Let's go.
26:48
All right.
26:49
Verse one, then he commanded the stewards of his house, fill the men's sacks with food
26:53
as much as they can carry and put each man's money in the mouth of his sack and put my
26:57
cup, the silver cup in the mouth of the sack of the youngest with his money for the grain.
27:02
And he did as Joseph told him, as soon as the morning was light, the men were sent away
27:07
with their donkeys.
27:09
They had gone only a short distance from the city.
27:12
Now Joseph said to his steward, up, follow after the men.
27:16
And when you overtake them, say to them, why have you repaid evil for good?
27:20
Is it not for?
27:21
Is it not from this that my Lord drinks?
27:24
And by this he practices divination.
27:27
You have done evil and doing this.
27:29
When he overtook them, he spoke to them these words.
27:33
They said to him, why does my Lord speak such words as these?
27:37
Or be it from your servants to do such a thing?
27:39
Behold, the money that we found in the mouth of our sacks, we brought back to you from
27:43
the land of Canaan.
27:45
How then could we steal silver or gold from your Lord's house?
27:49
Whichever of your servants is found with it shall die, and we also will be my Lord's servants.
27:55
He said, he said, let it be as you say.
27:59
He who was found with it shall be my servant, and the rest of you shall be innocent.
28:04
Then each man quickly lowered his sack to the ground, and each man opened his sack.
28:08
And he searched beginning with the eldest, and ending with the youngest.
28:13
And the cup was found in Benjamin's sack.
28:15
Then they tore their clothes, and every man loaded his donkey, and they returned to the
28:19
city.
28:20
So they find the cup in the youngest brother's sack, the fact that they tore their clothes.
28:25
I mean, this is real distress.
28:27
We don't really understand this in a modern parlance, like, you know, we're never going
28:30
to hold Kogan or shirt because we're in distress, but this was like a thing that they would
28:33
do.
28:34
This is very indicative of a deep love and affection and dedication to their younger brother, something
28:39
that was not there for Joseph.
28:41
But even going back and talking about this entire situation, I mean, this is, this is
28:45
like the final test that Joseph has to test their fidelity as a family.
28:50
And I mean, I will say at first, I was like, you know, what, what exactly was the point
28:54
of this and all this?
28:55
Because I was just missing who, you know, it was Benjamin.
28:57
It was the youngest.
28:58
And he had to be like, okay.
28:59
Are these the same guys that picked on the youngest, you know, when it was me, did they
29:03
just move this attention on to Benjamin or was it, I mean, another possibility is Benjamin
29:10
was the son of Rachel and Rachel.
29:13
So is there still resentment towards the favoritism that Jacob showed towards Rachel and her
29:20
offspring?
29:22
Is that still existing?
29:24
Yep.
29:25
And I think the other thing that's interesting here is the quick little pivot that Joseph
29:30
does because in verse nine, they talk about whichever your servants is found with it shall
29:36
die and we will be my Lord servants.
29:39
Okay.
29:40
So what was their original intent with Joseph when they sold him into slavery?
29:45
They were going to kill him.
29:46
Right.
29:47
Then they changed their mind.
29:48
We'll sell them.
29:49
We'll sell them.
29:50
Yeah.
29:51
Joseph almost pivots here and says, what you just did, what you did to me years ago, you,
29:57
believe it or not, took some mercy on me by slowing, selling me into slavery as horrible
30:02
as that sounds.
30:03
It's still like better than death.
30:05
So I won't kill this person, but, and you won't be my servants, but this person will
30:11
be my servant and I will release the rest of you.
30:14
I think what we're seeing here is we're seeing Joseph practice emotional control.
30:18
I mean, from the moment he saw his brothers, you got to imagine what kind of emotion is
30:23
coming on to him.
30:24
You know, he wants to know about his brother Benjamin.
30:26
He wants to know about his father.
30:27
He also might be dealing with anger to brothers who sold him in slavery.
30:30
And so if we look back at the other chapter, which we look in, we see when he puts them
30:36
in prison, you know, instead of 42, yeah, in chapter 42, he puts them in prison for a
30:40
couple of days.
30:41
And then in, he shows mercy again by, rather than just sending one back to bring Benjamin,
30:46
he keeps, he keeps one and sends nine back.
30:50
And so he's showing mercy there, just like they showed mercy to him by not killing him.
30:55
And then we're going to see, we see with the, and I, I, off Jake's point is that with Benjamin,
31:01
Benjamin didn't come along with him.
31:03
His father kept him back.
31:04
And he wanted to take them a second time to him.
31:06
Yeah.
31:07
And he doesn't want to send him back.
31:08
And that's because they're seeing that favoritism that Joseph had with Benjamin.
31:13
And so now he's testing them.
31:14
I think one of the things that I'd like to point out is the deviation portion that you
31:19
see where he uses the cup.
31:20
The cup has some significance in the fact of the deviation, the divination, the divination
31:25
is that Joseph's trying to seek the knowledge of his brother's hearts, because Joseph knows
31:30
that he is a powerful man in Egypt, and that if he were to bring his family to Egypt, his
31:35
brothers are going to be a part of that power.
31:37
And then you want to have another sons of Eli type thing.
31:40
So how's it going to, before you mentioned a second time with Benjamin, what were you
31:45
talking about, Derek?
31:46
Just that this is their second time come in the first time.
31:48
Okay.
31:49
They didn't send Benjamin and the dad didn't want to, or Jacob didn't want to send him
31:51
the second time, but they were like, he has to come or we won't see.
31:54
Yeah.
31:55
They won't take great.
31:56
Yeah.
31:57
Yeah.
31:58
Well, I think, I think an important thing here as well with, so some people said, Hey, this
32:00
was deceitful.
32:01
Right.
32:02
Like kind of what, what it's being done to kind of like surmise like there's a difference
32:06
between a test and deceit, I mean, because he was not deceiving them.
32:10
He was, he was literally testing them in this moment.
32:12
Yeah.
32:13
It'd be the same thing.
32:14
Like for whatever reason, this comes to mind, like when a cop pulls someone over and they're
32:17
trying to test, okay, what is this powder?
32:19
What is the substance?
32:20
And they put it in something like they're, they're testing it.
32:21
Like they're not, they're not doing anything deceitful.
32:24
Like how, how else could Joseph have come to the conclusion that his brothers had matured
32:30
or changed or been repentant?
32:32
He had to because the thing that if he would have said, Hey, it's me, your brother Joseph
32:36
when he first saw them, if their hearts hadn't changed and they see him in this power, do
32:40
you think they're going to feign what their hearts desires were at that one point?
32:45
Like he had to put them through this test and because he has, I don't know, if you think
32:50
about it, it's Joseph had so much power that we don't even realize.
32:53
I mean, he was second in command in Egypt and he knew it like Joseph is not a stupid person
32:58
and God gave him a lot of wisdom and he knows the power that he can wield.
33:03
And so if he brings his brothers in because he has the love for his father and his younger
33:08
brother, he's going to want to bring them to Egypt.
33:10
If he brings his brothers in and their hearts haven't changed, he's giving them power that
33:14
should not be given.
33:15
So Ryan, you touched on the point of the divination.
33:17
Yeah.
33:18
Just I want you to think about how clever Joseph is here.
33:22
So you're about to make a lower the rings reference.
33:24
No.
33:25
You just have a look at your face.
33:26
I know.
33:27
Look over your face.
33:28
I have to make sure.
33:29
I'm just, I appreciate cleverness whenever I see it.
33:32
I see it.
33:33
Yeah.
33:34
I know where you're going.
33:35
And he'll pop it in a warlord walking to a bar.
33:37
So there's a couple of things here.
33:39
Divination in Egypt was only accessible to like the people of very, very high status,
33:44
which obviously he would have been one and there was also a cult.
33:47
Yeah.
33:48
And he, there was two different types, uh, lecanimancy and hydromancy that were practice
33:55
that would have basically involved the silver cup that he gave them, but also keep in mind
34:01
all the things that Joseph revealed to his brothers about his brothers before this.
34:07
So he already knows so much about these men and they're obviously going to look at him
34:12
and go, uh, he knows what's going on.
34:15
He knows because he can't, he's a highborn in Egypt.
34:19
We know they practice this.
34:20
Oh, and by the way, he's already revealed a whole bunch of things to us, even though
34:24
it's just, yeah, I, I know things about you because I'm your brother, but they don't
34:28
know he's their brother.
34:30
So I just thought that was, I, I think it's very clever because it's like, Oh, I practice,
34:34
you know, don't you know, I can practice divinations.
34:36
Like, yeah, I do know that.
34:38
What's also great is when his brothers start speaking in Hebrew, they think that they're
34:42
speaking and he can understand because he's talking through an interpreter, but he can
34:46
hear everything they're saying at one point, they actually bring out their sin of what
34:50
they've done to their brother and he has to walk away and think of the emotional impact
34:54
on that.
34:55
He has to walk away because of his emotions get to him because he cannot give away who
34:58
he is right now.
34:59
He doesn't want to.
35:00
Well, okay.
35:01
So, I mean, there's poker face and then there's, then there's whatever this is because I mean,
35:06
even you get to the end there with verse 13, if, okay, if, if we had a kind of all done
35:12
this, you know, to somebody like that and then we get busted like that, like, would we have
35:18
the, the quick thought to like, okay, pretend like we're in distress and start ripping our
35:25
clothes and all that that this came up recently, this is going to be very obscure reference,
35:28
but I think people at least understand it.
35:30
So there are, there are certain fouls in MMA to where like, if a, if a fighter is grounded,
35:35
right?
35:36
So if his knees are on the ground or something like that, you, you can't throw a strike
35:38
at their head.
35:39
So imagine a guy like on all fours, he's kind of out of it.
35:41
And then you go and soccer kick his head, incredibly, incredibly dangerous, right?
35:45
It was allowed back in the day.
35:46
It's not really allowed in, in Maine stuff, especially on the UFC.
35:49
There was a fighter.
35:50
I can't remember the fighter's name.
35:51
He's fighting Paul Craig, a guy from Scotland and Paul Craig throws an illegal strike that
35:55
looks like it lands.
35:58
It looks like it lands right on the guy's face.
36:00
The guy responds like this to the referee, like, what are you doing?
36:03
And then he goes down as if he's been knocked unconscious.
36:06
See a soccer player?
36:07
And then like he kind of looked like it, I think he was from a soccer playing nation.
36:10
And so, and so then he acts like he comes back to and then sometimes when fighters get knocked
36:16
out or choked out, they'll start wrestling the referee because they think the fight's
36:19
still on.
36:20
And so he like pretends and does all this stuff.
36:22
He does this big charade and act to make it seem like he was actually knocked unconscious
36:26
by, by an illegal blow.
36:29
So they end up doing like a no contest or something for the fight.
36:31
But when you look back at the replay, the strike doesn't land.
36:34
So the guy does this whole big production, like I was knocked out because he wanted to
36:39
get a cheap win because these guys are on show money and win money.
36:43
So it's like you can double your payout if you win, right?
36:46
You get paid X amount just to show up.
36:47
You get paid X amount if you win.
36:49
And so it's like in his mind, he immediately thought this is the best idea.
36:53
Like I'm just going to pretend but it was so blatantly obvious.
36:56
And so like even in a situation like this with these brothers, they wouldn't have just
37:00
immediately thought to themselves like, Oh, let's just pretend like we're really, really
37:04
distraught here and yank our clothes and all that because they didn't think that they were
37:07
being tested.
37:08
No, they didn't know.
37:09
Yeah.
37:10
And that's what's what's great about it too is that they rip their clothes and they load
37:13
their donkeys and they return to the city.
37:15
Like if they were the men that they were before when they threw just something the pit, they
37:19
would have been like, Hey, this is the favorite brother.
37:20
This is what he gets, we're piecing out, you know, but they've seen the heartache that
37:25
they've done to their father in regards to Joseph and then they're seeing all these things
37:29
happen.
37:30
And so they're, they're remorseful.
37:32
So and we're seeing, we saw that remorseless and past chapter is in the fact that when they
37:36
were speaking in Hebrew, Joseph heard them talk about their sin.
37:40
Absolutely.
37:41
Let's keep this narrative going.
37:42
We're just going to do a few verses here.
37:44
So Derek, are you like all-time quarterback here or are you just going to keep reading?
37:48
Is that like?
37:49
I can read.
37:50
Oh, it's debatable.
37:51
Perfect.
37:52
But hey, you have, sorry, you, but you only get a few verses here.
37:57
So you just get 14 through 17.
37:59
So here you go.
38:00
Do a good job.
38:01
Rachel's watching.
38:02
Come on.
38:03
No, she's not.
38:04
Come on, buddy.
38:05
14 through 17, please.
38:06
14 through 17.
38:07
I don't have to turn the page.
38:08
That's right.
38:09
Another issue.
38:11
When Judon, his brothers came to Joseph's house, he was still there.
38:14
They fell before him to the ground.
38:16
Joseph said to them, what deed is this that you have done?
38:19
Do you not know a man like me can indeed practice deviation?
38:23
And Judas said, what shall we say to my Lord?
38:25
What shall we speak?
38:27
Or how can we clear ourselves?
38:29
God has found out, we, excuse me, God has found out the guilt of our servants.
38:34
Behold, we are my Lord's servants.
38:37
Both we, both we and he, also in whose hands the cup has been found.
38:44
But he said, far be it for me that I should do so, only the man in whose hand the cup
38:50
was found shall be my servant.
38:52
But ask for you, go in peace to your father.
38:54
And just real quick, just to make sure we are talking about divination, not you've been
38:57
saying deviation.
38:58
So that's like deviating.
38:59
I thought I said, divination.
39:00
Yeah.
39:01
It's okay.
39:02
But yeah, it's like divination.
39:03
That's basically like being able to surmise stuff about the future through like spiritual
39:07
realms and stuff like that.
39:08
So some people look at that in a modern way, like what would it be like, palm readings
39:11
and tarot cards and like crap like that, so there's kind of like, yeah, a new age thing
39:15
like that.
39:16
But in this section here, I mean, we have a rather dramatic choice, right?
39:21
For these brothers, I mean, it's literally themselves or their father and their brother.
39:25
Like that, that's basically what they're up against here.
39:28
And again, if you're reading this, right after it was first written down or this was maybe
39:33
taught to you in school or something as a kid, you don't know where this is going, right?
39:37
Because you have all this track record of these brothers being horrible and selfish.
39:41
And now they're being put to a decision and it's like, yeah, we don't exactly know where
39:44
this is going to go.
39:46
Yeah.
39:47
Derek looks like he's very clean and I'm like, let's go.
39:51
Never mind.
39:52
Now I'm just kidding.
39:53
That's the ultimate bill that the bill up in the nothing.
39:58
I think it was Judah prior to this is the one that goes to Jacob and it's like, we have
40:03
to bring him to go even meet with Joseph who they don't know it is yet.
40:10
And so you can see him like I have to go back and beg with Joseph to let me bring Benjamin
40:15
back home who I promised I would bring back to my father, basically.
40:19
Well, he also gave up his sons too.
40:21
He said, we don't bring him back.
40:23
You can kill my sons or have my sons.
40:26
And you know, Judah, I think in Judah was the ringleader.
40:29
He wasn't the ringleader in the whole thing.
40:31
I think I think he kept Simeon.
40:33
If we were back in last chapter when they sent him all back, he kept Simeon, which kind
40:37
of, most commentaries will say that Simeon was more like the ringleader of wanting to
40:42
kill Joseph.
40:43
But Judah was the one that talked him into selling him.
40:47
And so I don't think you're going to find in the Bible where it actually shows Simeon
40:50
as the ringleader, but that's just a guess.
40:53
But Judah is like taking, and we're going to get into this in further chapters about
40:58
Judah.
40:59
But Judah is like kind of taking the lead role of the sun, the first born in this way.
41:07
So because we already saw the fall of Levi and Ruben and Simeon.
41:11
When we see this few chapters later with Jacob blessing his sons, when he talks about
41:15
Simeon and Levi, it's like, all right.
41:18
I mean, you were brothers of violence and yeah, yeah, some pretty horrific stuff.
41:22
And so it's like, they basically brought a new reputation for the family that had not
41:28
been like, imagine two people from your entire family tree do something really horrific and
41:32
wrong, but your entire name, like we don't say any particular names, but it's like, uh,
41:37
okay, the one that came to mind, Hitler, imagine being in the Hitler family in the 1930s and
41:43
40s in Europe and all that, and it's like, obviously one of the most evil people ever,
41:48
at least by our standards, it's like you've burned an entire name, right?
41:52
That's not exactly what happened here, but it is a stain of reputation that happens.
41:56
And we've seen this from other people, I was talking to one of my dominion guys and one
42:01
of them is his dad was, was a little bit of a, of a shy story type of a guy and he kind
42:05
of screwed some people over.
42:06
And so his wife is still dealing with some of the ram of ramifications years and years
42:12
and years down the road of living in this small community, where she didn't do anything
42:16
to these people, but she was directly attached to and married to a person that really, really
42:20
screwed over some people in a really, really bad way.
42:22
And so it's just you get that, that stain of guilt on you even long after the fact.
42:27
Let's go ahead and wrap up, uh, the, the reading here for a Genesis.
42:31
So you get first right to refusal Derek, if you'd like to come in here, or if you want
42:34
Jake to scream the Bible, um, Jake, you just have such a booing voice is because I'm,
42:38
it's because I'm jealous.
42:39
That's why I make it.
42:40
I mean, I do have you turned down quite a bit and you're still booming over the mic.
42:43
So there you want to, let's hear it.
42:45
Jake.
42:46
All right.
42:47
Jake, you're going to go ahead and finish out Genesis 14 starting in verse 18.
42:50
Then Judah went up to him and said, Oh, my Lord, please let your servant speak a word
42:53
in my Lord's ears and let your, not your anger burn against your servant.
42:58
For you will like Pharaoh himself.
43:00
My Lord asked his servant saying, have you a father or a brother?
43:03
When we said to my Lord, we have a father, an old man and a young brother, the child of
43:07
his old age, his brother is dead and he alone is left of his mother's children and his father
43:13
loves him.
43:14
Then you said to your servants, bring him down to me that I might set my eyes on him.
43:19
We said to my Lord, the boy cannot leave his father for if he should leave his father,
43:23
his father would die.
43:25
Then you said to your servants, unless your youngest brother comes down with you, you shall
43:28
not see my face again.
43:30
When we went back to your servant, my father, we told him the words of my Lord.
43:34
And when our father said, go again, buy us a little food.
43:38
We said we cannot go down.
43:39
If our youngest brother goes with us, then we will go down for we cannot see the man's
43:44
face unless our youngest brother is with us.
43:47
Then your servant, my father said to us, you know that my wife bore me two sons, one left
43:52
me and I said, surely he has been torn to pieces.
43:55
And I have never seen him since.
43:58
If you take this one also from me and harm happens to him, you will bring down my gray
44:02
hairs and evil to sheal.
44:05
Now therefore, as soon as I come to your servant, my father and the boy is not with
44:09
us, then as his life is bound up in the boy's life, as soon as he sees that the boy is not
44:14
with us, he will die.
44:16
And your servants will bring down the gray hairs of your servant, our father, with sorrow
44:20
to sheal.
44:22
For your servant became a pledge of safety for the boy to my father, saying, if I do
44:26
not bring him back to you, then I shall bear the blame before my father, all my life.
44:32
Now therefore, please let your servant remain instead of the boy as a servant to my Lord
44:37
and let the boy go back with his brothers.
44:40
For how can I go back to my father if the boy is not with me?
44:43
I fear to see the evil that would find my father.
44:46
I know we give each other crap, but I think we got good readers in the screw up.
44:49
I think all of our forging tailors are not even one that sticks out as a bad reader.
44:52
So nicely done.
44:53
I will say here, as I was reading through this, and again, I can kind of be rough.
44:59
It's rough up there sometimes, you know, taking a few shots of the head.
45:01
So sometimes I'll have to read something.
45:02
I'll be like, wait a minute.
45:03
No, let me make sure.
45:04
And then I'll go back and reread it.
45:05
We see a very different Judah here.
45:07
You know, we have a guy that was willing to basically kind of almost like haphazardly,
45:11
you know, put his sons up.
45:13
And now he's putting himself up and I wrote this down before I started reading in the
45:17
commentaries.
45:18
But whenever you go to verse 33, now therefore, please let your servant remain instead of
45:21
the boy.
45:22
It's a substitutionary atonement, like that's what this.
45:25
This is literally a foreshadowing of the gospel because it's Judah for Benjamin, right?
45:30
And then we find out, I mean, the final, you know, substitutionary atonement comes from
45:35
Jesus who comes from the line of Judah and he becomes the lion of the tribe of Judah.
45:41
And so again, it's even when people that are not Christians, even people that are not
45:45
theists will read parts of the Bible like this and see the connections and see that this
45:50
was written over thousands of years on three different continents by a bunch of different
45:55
authors and things like that with the ultimate author being God.
45:57
But right there, it like, I think it was second or third time I read back and read verse
46:01
33.
46:02
I was like, wait, wait a minute.
46:03
This is Judah.
46:04
Right.
46:05
And so normally when I hear the name Judah, my ears perk up for, you know, because of the
46:08
podcast and things like that.
46:09
But my gosh, what a picture of the gospel that we see and people are like, you, you, when
46:13
you skip the Old Testament, we have young hits from the Old Testament, you missed them
46:16
like this, right?
46:17
Well, the thing I also noticed too was David came from line of Judah and David took over
46:23
for who?
46:24
That's King.
46:25
So what tribe did he come from?
46:27
So I read this, I forgot, tribe of Benjamin, Benjamin, that's right.
46:33
Oh, wow.
46:34
Yeah.
46:35
And so if you look at it, Judah comes, Judah comes to the aid of Benjamin again.
46:39
And for the aid of the Israel, the people of Israel, you have, you have, you have David
46:46
come in after Saul is it not that great of a king and comes and saves Israel again.
46:52
So, um, no, I, when I read that, it was like, it was just the beautiful for telling of
46:57
the gospel and just how, how the line of Judah, it's just Judah stepping up.
47:02
And then we're going to see in, in future things where Judah gets, gets the messianic
47:06
blessing.
47:08
And this is just a foreshadow we read that.
47:10
And, um, you know, he could have done that with his brother, I mean, with Joseph.
47:15
So, uh, but he didn't.
47:17
And I think now, now he's showing the heart change of his brothers and, you know, that's
47:21
why he's going to play a bigger role in what, what happens going forward.
47:26
When I don't want to ruin anything for next week, but even before this, this, you know,
47:33
stance shared by Judah, you, you got to think Joseph had gotten the information he needed
47:38
to surmise.
47:39
All right.
47:40
This is not the same crop of dudes, right?
47:42
But this was the lat, this was a hammer at the end to where Judah's like, okay, take
47:48
me then.
47:49
And, you know, it's kind of one of those things, like that's kind of been a movie thing, like
47:52
take me, you know, let the, let the women and children go like that type of thing.
47:56
I don't know that a whole lot of currencies like that.
47:58
Lasted me home.
47:59
Lasted the Mohicans.
48:00
Great movie.
48:01
Yeah.
48:02
Can we all agree on that one?
48:04
It's a good one.
48:05
Speaking of soundtrack, grassmires not here, but I know it's grassmires back in college.
48:11
We were part of this thing called old blue crew.
48:12
And so we would like paint up and go to the games and just like act full and like go
48:15
stuff like that.
48:16
And so his buddy of ours, Brian, he was doing this thing in, I forget, you know, it was
48:21
like some TV or radio production, you know, whatever.
48:25
And so we record an old blue crew ad with the last of the Mohicans, like a main score
48:31
in the background.
48:32
And it was like the most epic thing.
48:34
But I just remember the thing about the time I had not watched last of the Mohicans at
48:37
the time.
48:38
I just thought they had found some like random music from somewhere and my man, that sounds
48:41
awesome.
48:42
Like, yeah, it's the last of the Mohicans.
48:43
You idiot.
48:44
Oh, man, I guess I'll go watch it today.
48:45
But yeah, anyway, so that's, we should find that somewhere, right?
48:49
So Matt, you're listening to this right now because we can't text you because we're in
48:52
the past.
48:53
Right.
48:54
So, but also in the future at the same time, you can randomly text us six months from now.
48:59
Right.
49:00
What if he texts us like nowhere like while we're sitting here or something like that?
49:03
That would be so that's weird.
49:04
I don't want that to actually happen.
49:05
Okay.
49:06
So any other thoughts on Genesis 44 before we put a bow on it?
49:09
Well, I do want to kind of go back to like, so Judah is the one that had the idea of selling
49:14
him into slavery.
49:16
So you have this whole arc here where now Judah is the one willing to go into slavery
49:22
himself.
49:23
Basically, you can also look, I mean, the substitutionary atonement, I mean, it is obvious.
49:28
But I think the other part here is also Judah himself, his redemption, the guilty conscious
49:34
that he carried since the act that he performed and to me, if you kind of, I read a, in one
49:42
of the, in the commentary I was reading, they talked about the difference between covetousness
49:46
and envy because because it, Joseph, or I'm sorry, Judah was not guilty of coveting what
49:55
Joseph had.
49:56
He was envious of the relationship.
49:59
And so the difference between a covetous heart and an envious heart, the coveter has
50:05
empty hands and wants to fill them with somebody else's goods.
50:08
The envyer has empty hands and therefore wants to empty the hands of the envied.
50:13
And I think it's an interest, like you look now at our culture presently.
50:18
I think that our culture does not teach that necessarily envy is good, but it does teach
50:23
that it's good to be envied.
50:26
Uh, I think a lot of times what we would put out on social media and, and things like that,
50:32
are we putting that out with the heart of, you know, I want people to want this?
50:39
And I don't think that that's part of it.
50:41
And I don't think that that's necessarily a good thing to put out there.
50:44
That's your main goal.
50:46
Uh, and I think in a very real sense, Judah is envious of that relationship and carries
50:51
that guilt his entire life because it was emptying Joseph's hands, essentially, by saying,
50:58
my father favors him.
50:59
I'm empty in his hands by selling him into slavery.
51:02
He wanted to destroy him, not necessarily.
51:05
It's not like I like his coat, but you also have, you have like, you have the, and that's
51:14
the thing you have to think about Joseph.
51:16
Joseph was the first born of Rachel, his first love, you know, the one that he wanted to
51:21
marry.
51:22
All these other kids are from, you know, Leah, who he didn't want to marry, and they're
51:25
concubines, you know?
51:27
And so there was a favoritism with Joseph, then you have the whole coat, which basically
51:32
brought him on as a shepherd.
51:33
Like he was basically going to be given the blessing, you know, over Ruben.
51:38
They all knew this, you know, and they were envious of, you're hitting the nail on the
51:41
head.
51:42
They were envious of it.
51:43
But I don't think Jacob, Jacob, Jacob, Joseph was doing it to make them envy him.
51:49
He was doing it because Joseph just had a pure, well, I'm not saying you said this, but Joseph
51:53
just had a pure, Joseph was like a purist.
51:56
I mean, if we look at, if we look at the life of Joseph, Joseph was just, you know, there's
52:00
so many correlations between him and Christ to a point.
52:04
Not saying that Joseph was not sin, sinless like Christ, but just how Joseph's heart worked
52:09
in the character that he had made his brothers envious.
52:13
Not only, not only because their father favored him, because maybe they wanted to be a little
52:17
bit like it.
52:18
We talked about this on, you know, this was a couple of months ago on the forging table,
52:22
but it's like, you know, there's a chance that Joseph had a little touch of the tism
52:25
because he just basically said, he said exactly like, remember, I think I said, I was like,
52:30
yeah, we're sitting around the campfire and he's like, Hey, bros, I think I had another
52:33
dream.
52:34
Yeah.
52:35
It's like, man, you know, and then he would just like, he was so steadfast.
52:38
There was no like gray area.
52:39
There was no here.
52:40
Here.
52:41
Maybe keep to see yourself a little bit study more of, study more about this is like Joseph
52:46
was given divine providence like, like, like these were gifts given, not only by his dad
52:50
who gave him this coat, but God gave him gifts and the fact that he could see, he could
52:55
understand dreams and he's been given these dreams, you know, and so he's just doing,
52:59
you know, he could be touched with the tism, you know, but I'm just saying like, he's just
53:04
doing what God gave him, you know, and his heart, like he didn't see the deceitfulness
53:09
of his brothers.
53:10
He saw the deceitful evilness of his brothers, but I mean, he's like, even through all of
53:14
this, and we read all of this, he still loved them.
53:18
Even when he saw them in his heart broke, he still loved him.
53:22
It's like the love that Christ has for us as sinners, you know, that he loves us, even
53:27
though we do things that just probably make him sad.
53:31
So when I think here as well with, with Judah, it doesn't seem like Judah was making one
53:35
of those false, like false promises or like, Oh, I'm going to put myself up knowing it's
53:40
never going to get called in.
53:41
I was reminded of, I did this on the daily blade a few months back, but there was a Scottish
53:46
pastor named John Harper.
53:48
And he was going down on the Titanic and he gave his life vest to because he was asking,
53:55
is anybody not saved?
53:57
Does anybody not know Jesus and one person like, I don't know Jesus and he gives his
54:00
life vest to somebody and says, you need this more than I do.
54:03
And then he spent his final moments.
54:06
This is after the Titanic had sank, he's in the water without a life vest, swimming from
54:10
person to person, asking if they know Christ, right?
54:13
And one person that was sitting there in the water, you know, about to die, says, I don't
54:17
know Christ.
54:18
So he swims over to this guy, tells him about Jesus and then goes below the water, never
54:23
comes back up.
54:24
Body was never discovered, right?
54:26
That guy was saved, right?
54:28
And then the Carpathia came and picked him up and all that and years later, he did come
54:31
to Christ, right?
54:32
And so he was considered John Harper's last convert.
54:34
Yeah.
54:35
And it was like, John Harper was not giving up his life vest, assuming he was going to
54:39
get another one.
54:40
He was not giving up his life vest, assuming like this is probably going to work out for
54:43
me in the end because I'm on Team Jesus and everything works out for people that are
54:46
on Team Jesus, right?
54:47
Yeah.
54:48
And it's just one of those moments with Judah to where it's just like, you could tell at
54:50
this moment, everything about him and his disposition was different as it pertained to
54:55
his younger brother.
54:56
And I think it's with all the brothers, the fact that they all got up and left, you know,
55:00
they all, they ripped their clothes and they walked back with him, yeah, rather than letting
55:05
him go on his own.
55:06
Something else on Genesis 44, before we get out, Derek, you've been sitting on any nuggets
55:10
over there that you want to.
55:12
Oh, well, I can't remember.
55:13
That's right.
55:14
But is this the first time the brothers bow down to him or that that happened when they
55:19
first visit the first time when they praise it the first time?
55:21
I think they bow down.
55:22
Yeah, I couldn't remember.
55:23
Anyway, I thought that was, they don't know it's his brother yet or they're the brother
55:26
yet.
55:27
So they don't realize that it's a dream is coming true, but another thing that speaks
55:32
to is emotional control, yeah, because you could have been like fricking told y'all
55:37
right.
55:38
Egyptian takes off his eye, make up, he's like, y'all going to jail.
55:42
Yeah, could have definitely done that.
55:43
But guys, we are going to leave the discussion of Genesis 44 there.
55:46
Come back here next week where we're going to be going through Genesis 45.
55:50
Before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost out of downtown life
55:52
for missions, equipping men to push back darkness with content that for just spiritual
55:55
mental and physical resilience.
55:56
Just a reminder, we have a forging table starter set through crossway.
55:59
There are five amazing books, you can get an incredible discount, check that out in the
56:02
show notes.
56:03
And as a lot of us do during our prep, we use a Logos Bible software, but don't use it at
56:07
full price.
56:08
Use it as a discount and all that will be there in the show notes and guys, we are a donation
56:11
based ministry.
56:12
So if you want to know how we can pull off things like the like the forging table or any
56:14
of the stuff that we do is because guys like you are donating.
56:16
But before we get out of here, let's all just put hands in the middle.
56:20
Everybody hands.
56:21
I'm dealing with this earlier and I feel like I was more to the rings hands in the middle
56:24
hands in the middle.
56:25
And this is the fellowship of the Lord of the Rings is terrible and overrated one, two,
56:29
three.
56:30
Yeah.
56:31
Thank you for listening to this podcast.
56:33
Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe, rate and leave us a positive five
56:36
star review.
56:37
If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast, just shoot me an email
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to info@undonton.life.
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That's i-n-f-o @undonton.life.
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Follow us on Instagram and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else,
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including how to donate to keep more content like this coming your way.
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Just go to www.undonton.life and as always, we want to thank the band Holy Name for allowing
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us to use their music for our content.
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The music on this podcast is our song Perpetua, which is off their self-titled debut album
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on Face Down Records.
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The links are in the description.
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I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
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Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
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Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
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