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1:16
This is Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
1:22
All right, guys, today we've got a very special guest on the podcast for you,
1:24
and that is Pastor James Coates. So if that name sounds familiar to you,
1:28
it's because it should, because we've talked about this guy a lot on this show.
1:31
He is a lead pastor at Grace Life Church in Edmonton in Alberta, Canada,
1:34
and he was the Canadian pastor earlier this year that was arrested for preaching the gospel.
1:39
Now, what you may have heard from people that are, you know, in that province or people that are
1:43
maybe on the left, is that, no, no, no, he was arrested because he wouldn't comply with the local
1:47
health ordinances and regulations and laws that were basically made up out of thin air, okay?
1:52
So we're going to get into a lot of detail on this podcast. And we're basically going to follow
1:56
up on the podcast we did earlier this year in March on episode 184 of this podcast. We interviewed
2:00
the associate pastor of Grace Life. That's Jacob Spence. And we talked about everything
2:04
that was going on at that time. So we're going to bring it all up to modern day. I just did this
2:08
interview. If you're listening to this on time, this interview was yesterday. So you're going to be
2:11
listening to this straight from his mouth. So any of the details, this is going to be completely
2:15
up to date. Now, I'm going to ask a lot of same questions on Pastor James that I did at Pastor
2:19
Jacob, because those were the questions I wanted to ask Pastor James at the time. But he was languishing
2:24
in a jail cell, right? You know, it's not a horrible situation that he was in in terms of,
2:28
you know, he was fairly comfortable. We did get into that here in the interview. But just there
2:32
were a lot of questions I want to ask him. There was been a lot of questions over the last several
2:35
months that I've wanted to kind of get to. And guys, it took us a long time to really get this
2:38
squared away because he's being asked to be interviewed everywhere and to speak everywhere.
2:42
And there's a lot of things going on with the legal ramifications of what happened there.
2:45
Some of the things that are going on inside the church. He is a pastor after all. So he saw us to
2:49
deliver sermons and he has to be there for people that are hurting and that need counsel and things
2:53
like that. And so it was, it was a crazy situation for him over the last several months. So we get
2:57
into a lot of those details here in this particular podcast. So you're really going to want to stick
3:01
around till the end. Because then we start getting into some other issues, some larger cultural topics.
3:05
Because again, there's his situation that's going on right now. But then this is going to help define
3:11
what a situation is going to be like for someone else down the road. Because this isn't the last
3:15
time that something like this is going to happen, not by any stretch of the imagination. And Pastor
3:19
James is completely aware of that. And so are we here on this podcast? That's why we talk about it
3:23
all the time. So definitely make sure you check this out all the way through. But guys, I'm not
3:26
going to keep him from you any longer. So without further ado, let's get into it.
3:31
Pastor James Coates, welcome to Undaunted Life of Man's podcast. Hey, thanks for having me,
3:36
Cal. Glad to be here. Hey, I'm happy that you're here. And to be honest, I'm happy that you're
3:40
here and you're not behind prison cell bars. And we'll get way more into that. Because
3:44
obviously listeners of this podcast know a lot about your story because I've kind of kept them
3:48
up with it. But I'm very excited that we have you here to where we can kind of get the real
3:51
story is to kind of went down and we're just going to go ahead and launch right in. We're going to
3:54
take you right back to January 2021. Okay, this is where it all began. And that's where Dr.
3:59
Dina Hinshaw, she's the chief medical officer of health in Alberta. She ordered that your church
4:05
grace life to be closed in January. And the reasons that they gave is because that you
4:09
had all violated the public health act, which was essentially there made up COVID-19 restrictions.
4:15
Essentially your church, you know, you wouldn't mandate social distancing or masking or limit to
4:19
15% occupancy, those types of things. But that kind of brings us up to speed us to the important
4:24
details of what happened in January of 2021. But if you wouldn't mind bring us up to speed
4:29
on the important details of what happened prior to January 2021, because this just didn't happen
4:35
out of the blue. And then, you know, also how you all decided to respond to the government's
4:39
demand that you close your church once we do get back to January.
4:43
Yeah, we opened our church for good essentially in in July after shutting down for two Sundays
4:50
due to a couple of cases of COVID-19. And so we opened up and remained open and things began to
4:57
heat up for us with our government in December. We had the governing authorities in our church
5:03
on the 13th. They were there on the 20th on the 20th. I preached a sermon that went viral and
5:11
got a ticket after that sermon later that day really right after the service. And so things were
5:20
on, we started to get media attention. There was an excerpt from that sermon that was played
5:25
on live media, six o'clock news. And that definitely, you know, increased the focus and
5:32
attention that we were getting. And then we got into January, like you said, they ordered us
5:38
close. We had to decide at that point in time, you know, what do we do? Are we going to actually
5:44
in January to be clear? That wasn't even the closure piece. That was essentially the court
5:51
ordering us to comply with a December 17th order of an executive health officer. And so at that
5:59
point in time, we had the court ordering us to comply with that health order. And we had to make
6:07
a call either we were going to appeal the decision. And if you appeal it, then you have to decide
6:13
whether or not you are going to comply because really with an appeal, if you don't comply with
6:20
the court order during the time of the appeal, it basically harms the appeal. And so we had to
6:26
decide that and that would have been putting it in the court system and waiting it out and hoping
6:31
that we won the appeal upwards of two months from that point. Or we had to decide, no, we're going
6:38
to continue to meet. And it was a rough call. We decided to continue to meet. We knew that would
6:45
mean that we'd be in contempt of court. We actually did that knowing that Jacob Ryoam in Ontario of
6:53
Trinity Bible Church, Trinity Baptist Church in Ontario that he was going to be opening
6:59
in contempt of court as well. So we were together essentially at that point, opening our churches
7:06
are continuing to be open in contempt of court. And that was the first time that I had to consider
7:11
jail. The consequence for contempt of court is up to two years in prison. I remember being on the
7:17
phone with my lawyer this Saturday prior to that Sunday. And at that point in time, I was
7:24
thinking that the likelihood of jail time for this was pretty minimal. But I did pose the question
7:30
to him at that point in time. And he said, no, it's pretty likely that you're going to see jail time
7:35
for this. And I said, so like, how long you say, well, probably a couple months. And man, that hit me,
7:44
you know, that I felt the weight of that. You know, we were already purposed to be open the next day.
7:52
And we have been open every Sunday, since July, middle of July, whatever it was. And so that was
7:59
the moment where I had to begin to digest the reality of jail time simply for having a church
8:04
service. And so we opened that Sunday in the end. They didn't follow through with holding us in
8:13
contempt of court, and ordered us closed the next the next week. And that's what you're referring to.
8:19
And and obviously we didn't we didn't we didn't close. In fact, you know what, I got to be honest,
8:26
like I'm I'm I'm struggling now with what it was they did. I'm pretty sure it was a closure notice.
8:33
Yeah, we continued to meet. Absolutely. Yeah, it was a closure notice. And we continued to meet.
8:37
And and that ultimately resulted, you know, in us are building being closed and everything like
8:48
that. I'm it's funny, man, I'm struggling right now for the details. And it's funny, I've rehearsed
8:52
so many times that you think that I'd be able to spend this off with with with no problem at all.
8:57
But anyway, point being we opened they didn't hold us in contempt, ended up ordering us closed,
9:04
which we thought was kind of a lateral move. And and then, you know, things heated up again on
9:10
the 7th of February. So a couple of weeks later, I had already digested the the prospect of jail
9:17
time at that point. And I was arrested following that February 7th service. It happened in our
9:24
church facility. It happened in our office. My wife and elders were present with me. And
9:30
and then that moment was basically me being served with an undertaking and that undertaking
9:36
required that I comply with the public health acts that meant I have to comply with all the health
9:40
orders coming from Dr. Dean Hinshaw. And I told the officers that I couldn't do that, couldn't sign
9:47
off on that condition. And and they said, that's fine. We'll indicate you refuse to sign. But you
9:53
need to know that you've just been arrested and and you know, this is the condition that you need
10:00
to comply with. And and they said, we'll be back next Sunday, which meant they knew we'd be back
10:05
next Sunday. And so it was February 14th that I preached a sermon titled directing government to
10:11
its duty. And at that point in time, you know, that sermon went even more viral than the December
10:17
20th sermon. And and then it was following that service that I found out the RCMP wanted me to
10:23
drive myself into headquarters. I was going to be arrested on the Tuesday. The Monday was a holiday.
10:28
And I think at that point in time, the idea was that I would go in, I would be brought before a
10:33
justice of the peace. I'd be given a condition of bail. I would sign that condition and be released.
10:39
Well, the condition that I got in my bail hearing was a condition that I comply with the public
10:44
health orders, which would mean that I wouldn't be able to to fulfill my calling as a pastor. I
10:49
would need to close my doors or, you know, comply with all the capacity limits, make everyone wear a
10:54
mask, make sure everyone's socially distanced. And I just could not do that. And so I refused
10:59
that condition. And that landed me in jail for 35 days. And, and you know, I was able to get out.
11:06
And yeah, I'll just I'll give it back to you at that point in time.
11:09
Yeah, so we have it as February 16th, obviously, is the day that you were arrested and turning
11:14
yourself in. But just even briefly, I want to kind of get into your headspace as someone who's
11:18
never had the pleasure of spending any time in a federal prison. You knew you're going to be arrested,
11:24
okay? You knew that because you were turning yourself in. But you didn't know how long you
11:28
would be in there. I mean, you've got your your family, you've got your church family.
11:32
So just briefly, even take us through what was going on with yourself mentally, you said you'd
11:36
already kind of come to grips with the fact that this was maybe a possibility. But now you're on
11:39
your way, you're on your way to actually being arrested. You know, you're going to jail or prison.
11:44
What does that like for you? Yeah, you know, I left my house fairly optimistic. I'd
11:48
become in home. And my wife said she knew that it was likely I wouldn't be coming home. But I went
11:57
to I drove myself in to be arrested a second time optimistic, rejoicing, hopeful, not not fearful.
12:07
I did believe that I'd be able to come home that day. I figured I'd have one more week before
12:14
things would really heat up and the possibility of prison would be thrusted upon me. And so I went
12:20
in, you know, ready, but but but joyful and and rejoicing. And even in prison, I was, you know,
12:29
when I got there, I was arrested and I had to, you know, basically, I take off all the stuff they
12:34
wanted me to take off and and I was in a cell and was there with my Bible that let me have my
12:40
Bible and I brought my Bible in with me and so I'm reading in Philippians as a very go-to
12:46
epistle and led to the fact that I was in prison at that point in time and that
12:50
ministered to me. So I spent time in the word and prayer. And you know, things began to kind of heat
12:57
up a little bit in my first justice of the peace hearing because they were two. The first one was
13:02
adjourned. And I came out of the first one going like, Oh, this is actually feeling like it's pretty
13:07
heavy, you know, like they, the prosecutor has a hate on for me. And so this is not, I'm not liking
13:16
the tone and trajectory of this whole thing. And then I went in for my second round and that time
13:23
I was a little more ready as far as the legal side of it and what to anticipate and expect.
13:28
And, you know, you're just kind of you're there and you got two people, as far as lawyers talking
13:34
about you, one's yours, the other one hates you. And then you got the JP, he's kind of
13:38
chiming in and you're sort of just to fly in the law for this conversation that's taking place
13:41
that revolves around your security, liberty and future. And so, you know, the way that all fleshed
13:48
out, I was pretty sure I was going to get a condition much like the one I had in the undertaking a week
13:54
prior. And so I knew that was going to come. The question was, how would it come? Would it come
14:01
whereby I would need to sign it, agreeing to, to comply with it to be released or would I just be
14:09
released with a condition regardless of whether I agree to sign it or not. And of course it was,
14:14
it was the, the former, I had to sign it to be released and to sign it would mean that I'm
14:20
agreeing to comply with it and I couldn't do that. So, so at that point in time, when
14:26
it's after the second justice of the peace hearing and now it's just me and an RCMP officer and
14:32
he's bringing me the papers and I'm finding out what's going to happen with me. You know, I, it wasn't
14:40
really a difficulty for me to decide not to sign that thing. I mean, that was already predetermined.
14:45
So it wasn't like a temptation of what do I do here. I knew what I was going to do. It was just
14:50
dealing with the aftermath of it. It was dealing with the, you know, where the chips were going to
14:55
fall thereafter. And so in, in not signing that condition and, and then beginning to deal with
15:03
the implications of that, that's where things got tough. You know, I, I called my lawyer at that
15:09
point in time and I can honestly remember just weeping on the phone with him. I mean, everything
15:13
that you would expect to feel when you're going to be imprisoned, I felt it. You know, you watch
15:19
movies as a kid and you see a guy get imprisoned and everything that you're sort of feeling,
15:24
you know, vicariously through him. You feel in that moment. And so he, he ministered to me. He
15:30
encouraged me, strengthened me so that when I called my, my wife and kids, you know, I was in a,
15:36
a better state of mind to tell them what's going to happen next. And here's what's going to go on.
15:41
And next day, I had a hearing at a provincial court and, and I guess there was, you know, you're,
15:48
you're learning how the system works the whole way along. I was, I was optimistic that maybe
15:53
that judge might intervene and, and advocate for my release. But given the fact that I wouldn't sign
15:59
the condition, he couldn't do that. And, and that meant that was going to be going to remand,
16:04
which then was even like another kind of blow in terms of digesting just the trajectory of this.
16:13
And so again, I mean, I, I remember being on the phone with my, my wife and she was actually on her
16:18
way to the courthouse and, and even to the RCMP headquarters where I was at that time. And, you know,
16:26
again, I'm, I'm, I'm coming somewhat unglued as I, as I come up under, bear up under what's about
16:33
to happen. But, you know, she, she just ministered to me and, and exhorted me and, and next thing,
16:41
you know, I'm, I'm in remand being processed as a prisoner. And, and even that in and of itself is,
16:48
uh, in an experience. Yeah, we'll certainly get more into some of those details and also
16:53
everything that happened even after your release. But just even briefly for those of us again that
16:57
haven't been to prison, you're there and you were there for over a month. And again, there was kind
17:02
of a lot of questions as to when you would come out. But I want to know just specifically to you
17:06
being in prison. What was that like for you? Were you treated well? Were you were, did they kind of
17:11
have it out for you? Because you were doing something in defiance of the government kind of give us
17:15
an inside peek into what was going on in the cell? Well, yeah. So initially, I think, um, guys are
17:21
trying to figure out, I mean, they don't know who I am necessarily, but as I was being processed and,
17:28
and taken from my holding cell to the next stage and then back to my holding cell, I'm interacting
17:32
with the guards and a couple of them were aware of what was going on. And they were just saying,
17:37
like, we think this is ridiculous. This is, this is disgusting. You shouldn't be here. And so that
17:42
was supportive. That was, that was nice because it was a, an expression of compassion of which there
17:48
hadn't been, you know, a ton up into that point in time. And, um, you know, when I got onto my pod,
17:54
I can remember, you know, the coming in with two other guys and, and the guard on that pod
18:01
declares wonderful, you know, three criminals fresh off the street and yet understand like,
18:08
as one of the guys that's there going like, yeah, I'm not a criminal and I'm not off the street,
18:14
you know, I'm coming from a church. I'm a pastor. And so I ended up having a moment where I could
18:20
say to him, Hey, do you know why I'm in here? And, and that would be a risky thing to do, I think,
18:25
because, you know, he could just blow me off, you know, cost me out and sent me back to myself.
18:31
Um, but he, he, uh, humored me. And I said, you know, I'm a pastor and I'm here for having church
18:37
services. And he kind of looked at my file and, uh, and he, he, he saw that that was the case.
18:42
And, uh, I went back to my cell and while I was in there, he buzzed in and he was like, Hey,
18:47
coats. And I said, uh, yeah, he's like, you want some paper and a pen? And I was like, uh, yeah,
18:53
sure. He's like, uh, Bunyan did some of his best work while he was in prison. So I bet you could
18:58
use a paper and a pen. And, uh, and so there he was showing he knew who John Bunyan was and, and,
19:04
you know, again, that was another expression of support. And so, you know, I had guys early on in
19:09
prison. I mean, people were coming to me all the time, whether it was guards or whatever the case
19:13
was and just maybe we knew someone on the inside and they were coming to say, Hey, I know these
19:18
folks and I'm just, well, you know, I'm praying for you and they're praying for you. And tons of
19:22
support came in that way. I can remember being called to the desk and one guy kind of, you know,
19:29
say, Hey, you know, I'm not religious, but I really respect what you're doing. And, and so
19:33
that kind of thing was happening quite a bit. And so I would say in general, the guards were really
19:38
supportive of what I was doing while I was there. And, um, and so my, even the inmates themselves,
19:45
once they got to know me a little bit, were really respectful and, and treated me well and, and,
19:50
um, yeah, I can't, I can't complain. That's good to hear because obviously as soon as you went
19:55
into prison and we all kind of found out about it, it's like, I mean, there's no telling because
19:59
the same thing that you were talking about earlier, you watch those television shows or those movies,
20:02
you're like, Oh my gosh, he's getting shanked. He's going to come out with the teardrop tattoo.
20:06
Like this is going to be pretty intense. And that's just wasn't your experience. But on March 22nd
20:10
of this year, you were actually released from prison after spending 35 days in prison for
20:14
preaching to your congregation, but specifically because as you said, you, you refuse to sign an
20:19
agreement that you would stop pastoring grace life according to the congregation's beliefs,
20:23
like that's the main reason. Or as the local authorities would frame it, holding a public
20:26
gathering and defiance of health and safety guidelines because you're trying to kill grandma or whatever
20:31
thing that they would say. But you would think that that would kind of be a little bit of a
20:34
crescendo to the story. It would kind of start to wrap up. But it's almost like that was just
20:38
the beginning of the story for you because then in early April and April 7th, Grace Life Church,
20:42
the actual building itself was seized and barricaded by the government. And I remember when I first
20:48
saw this and I first saw the pictures, I was like, okay, so they put a bunch of fencing around and
20:53
all these different things. But on the 11th, I guess that was the first Sunday after the
20:58
government took control of your building of your property, some worshipers actually tore down the
21:02
barricades to gain access to the building. And almost immediately over like 200 riot police were
21:08
called in. And so kind of take us through that whole process. Because I remember seeing the
21:12
little snippets. And again, it's like, you don't really know what's true and what's not. But it
21:16
seemed like the government was like, okay, we can't control these people. So we're just going to
21:20
put up a fence. And then when the fence didn't work, they said, okay, we are going to force you
21:24
almost like, you know, taking a page out of animal farmer at 1984, we're going to force you to
21:28
comply. That's exactly what's going to happen here. Do I have most of those details correct?
21:32
Yeah, I think so. I like we, I am the five weeks that I was in prison, the RCMPHS did nothing
21:42
with respect to our gatherings. They were outside, they were there, but they weren't coming in. Then
21:46
the first time they am back, they want back in the building, there's actually video of two of our
21:50
guys keeping them out on the basis of section 176 of the criminal code, where it's a criminal
21:58
offense to interrupt the gathering, a worship service or to disrupt a minister either on his
22:04
way to during or after. And so we were able to keep them out. But I found out literally
22:10
a minute or two before, you know, I'm going to do the announcements to begin the service that
22:15
they're there and they want back in. And that was heavy because having not been there for five weeks,
22:21
why were they now trying to get back in the one Sunday, the first Sunday I'm back? And so that
22:28
would have been the Sunday before the seventh when they, when they locked us out. So they lock
22:32
us out on the seventh and put up fencing and all the rest of it, like you said, you know, on that
22:38
Sunday, we were already beginning our gatherings at undisclosed locations. So we weren't even
22:44
there that Sunday. Our people were not there on that Sunday. And so there was a, you know, our
22:50
church began to be almost like the poster child for the freedom fight here in our province. And
22:56
that wasn't our intention. I mean, we're not primarily about freedom fighting. Don't get me
23:00
wrong. I mean, we're, we're here because we want to honor and glorify our Lord and Savior, Jesus
23:06
Christ. And, and, and to the extent that that has brought us into the political sphere,
23:11
that is what it is. But at its, at its core, we're fighting for the headship of Christ over his
23:17
church. And so we weren't there that Sunday. There were believers that were there as I understand it
23:23
on that Sunday. And, and, and I understand too that that apart from maybe the moment when the fence
23:30
was being taken down, my, the impression that I've been given is that that rally was actually a
23:35
very wonderful, well-spirited rally. And, and so the way it's been painted in the media isn't
23:41
quite accurate. I wasn't there. So I can't say, but, but yeah, I mean, it was the imagery that came
23:49
out of that, that has gone into even videos that have been made that capture the essence of the
23:54
battle here in Alberta are ugly. I mean, they are a stain on our province. And it looks like
24:02
something out of China. There's no question. And so it's, it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. I
24:07
think for, it's embarrassing for me. It's embarrassing for, I think many in our province. I would hope
24:14
it's embarrassing for our premier. And, yeah, I would say that what happened is, is incredibly
24:20
embarrassing. When I would say even for me, it was terrifying because you're not that far away from
24:26
us, right? You know, a lot of times things, the ideas kind of happen in Europe and maybe they
24:30
trickle to Canada and they fall down in the United States. It's, it's kind of one of those things
24:34
where it's like, this can't be that far away. The wolves are basically approaching our properties,
24:39
kind of the way we felt. But I thought it was interesting. And if you can't talk about this,
24:43
you know, that much, I completely understand why. But you're talking about, about things that might
24:48
be going on overseas, like in a China or a North Korea. But y'all kind of had to do that because
24:52
Grace Life Church had to go underground in order to kind of keep meeting. So what details can you
24:58
give us about the fact that your church did start going underground and continuing to have services?
25:03
Like, I mean, I don't know, was it an exciting thing? Was it like a highly depressing thing for
25:09
the congregation? Like kind of give me the details because it's just hard for me to get into that
25:13
headspace. Yeah, I think it would have been different for everyone. I mean, there was certainly something
25:18
sweet about that first Sunday and meeting the way that we did and, and just gathering the way that
25:24
we did. And even like audio of our singing that Sunday went viral. That service got lots of attention.
25:32
People wanted to see us gathering in this undisclosed location. And, and so, yeah, I mean, the worship
25:39
and the fellowship were wonderful. And I think even over time, we began to enjoy this outdoor
25:45
gathering that we were doing as the temperatures warmed up and we were gathering under the sun and
25:51
having just these wonderful after means of worship. I mean, we really began to almost enjoy it. But
25:56
this last Sunday that we met in our building for the first time in months was the first Sunday that
26:02
we had been able to meet without any concern, any fear of enforcement from the governing authorities.
26:07
And that's like seven months, basically, of being on the run from the governing authorities for
26:12
something as simple as gathering for worship. And, and so it was, there's no question it was,
26:19
it was sweet. It was obviously there were some moments. I mean, you can go back to the first time
26:24
Pastor Tim Stevens was arrested. We were at a location and I'm leaving that location and I catch
26:31
wind that Tim has been arrested. Well, at that very moment, I catch wind that had we met at the
26:37
location that we had met the two Sundays prior, it's likely we would have been arrested too.
26:43
We had been in the same place for, I think it was two Sundays and we got the sense that they were
26:50
kind of onto us. We saw some unmarked vehicles in the vicinity and so we were pretty sure they knew
26:56
where we were. When you gather, it's amazing just how many planes end up overhead that, you know,
27:01
can probably see what you're doing. And so whether they're a friend or a foe that can
27:06
backfire on you because they're contacting the RCMP and letting them know that you're meeting or
27:10
whatever. So we found out that that first time Tim was arrested, that had we been at the prior
27:16
location, it's a good chance we too would have been arrested. There were too many vans present,
27:21
there was a canine unit that was present, that we got this all after the fact from folks in the
27:28
area that we're seeing what was going on in our absence. So that was a close call, I would say,
27:38
and yet we just continued to meet and to gather in these different locations. And there was another
27:44
court order that came out that was really onerous and that's been rescinded too, which is basically
27:50
it gave AHS and the RCMP the authority to hold us in contempt of court for violating a court order
28:00
that ruled out any illegal gathering. And so, you know, an illegal gathering would just be any
28:05
gathering and noncompliance with the health orders. And so that's an incredibly onerous court order.
28:12
And that was the court order that Tim was originally arrested on, then released because of the way
28:18
that his arrest took place. And then he was arrested again on it even after but been amended to no
28:23
longer apply to him. And so we, you know, there was the threat of that. And, you know, we just
28:30
got spared us and we weren't, we never found ourselves in the crosshairs of that. But you're
28:36
still finding yourself in the crosshairs of the legal battle that you're that you're in at the
28:40
moment. And so that really started back in early May with kind of the first portion of your trial,
28:44
which funny enough, the government had months and months and months to basically get all their
28:48
details straight to present a medical or scientific case as to why your church should have been shut
28:54
down. But they basically, the judge had to basically say, hey, you know, court is adjourned until we
28:58
can figure our crap out. And so I guess that's going to happen more later on this year. But your
29:02
legal team essentially argued that your charter rights and freedoms were violated during this whole
29:07
ordeal and that the court should throw out the public health act charged that was against you.
29:11
So again, as we talked about off air, you're speaking to a majority American audience. So we
29:16
aren't terribly familiar with charter rights and freedoms. We're, you know, obviously familiar with
29:19
our bill of rights and our constitution. So can you give our listeners a little bit of a sense as
29:23
to what charter rights and freedoms are, and then also how the court responded to your legal
29:29
team's argument that your rights had been violated? Yeah. So our charter rights would be, I think,
29:34
consistent with your constitutional rights. And so the charter is the supreme law of our land
29:41
and built in it are what are claimed to be recognized as our God given rights. And so I think that would
29:51
line up with your constitution. And so in that is the freedom of religion, assembly, conscience,
29:58
all that kind of stuff. And so, you know, we made the argument that my charter rights were
30:07
infringed upon as far as freedom of assembly, freedom of expression, freedom of conscience,
30:16
freedom of religion on all those levels, including my right to security and liberty. For example,
30:23
when I was given the condition of either violating my conscience by signing the bail condition or
30:30
jail, you know, the argument was, well, that is a charter violation to put a man in that position
30:36
where you're pinning his conscience against his liberty and security. And, you know, the courts
30:43
just haven't seen it that way. I mean, I think what we're seeing here in our country anyway is that
30:47
our charter rights are impotent. I mean, they just, they just, they don't carry much weight within the
30:55
context of our judicial system. And in our charter at the beginning is a statement right at the outset
31:03
that says that our charter rights can be infringed upon when justifiable, which implies the government
31:09
would have to do that, justify the infringement. But so far, our judges have not held our government
31:17
accountable. And that's unfortunate. That's the whole point of the judiciary as far as its relationship
31:22
to government and people. That's why we have these independent, you know, systems of power in our
31:29
countries to be able to hold each one accountable. And so our judiciary is there to hold our government
31:34
accountable to make sure that they aren't being tyrannical toward the people. But if the judiciary
31:40
doesn't do that, well, then we have no protection from a human perspective. And that's what we're
31:45
seeing right now in our country. We just were whether it's Ontario or here in Alberta, we just have
31:52
not seen that our judicial system has come through in defending our rights and liberties. And so
31:59
it's, it's sad and disappointing. But at the end of the day, you know, our true liberties in Christ.
32:06
And so the blessing of that freedom in him is the freedom to glorify him in any and all situations,
32:13
even when we're on the receiving end of injustice. And so even if we have our, our human freedoms
32:21
being removed from us or civil liberties, we still have our freedom in Christ.
32:26
I would absolutely say amen to that. And I think it's important to kind of bring up a few things
32:29
because there were some quotes that I read throughout this whole process of trying to keep up with this
32:33
that we're just astonishing to me. So the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms,
32:37
which is kind of helping you with your case, I saw this from them. And they said it was judge,
32:41
is it pronounced Shaijek, Shaijek? You know, to this day, I don't even know.
32:45
It doesn't matter. Justice S H A I G E C. I'll just say judge. They also ruled that even though
32:52
pastor coats spent 35 days in jail because his release condition required him to violate his
32:57
conscience and religious beliefs, his right to liberty was not violated, stating that he could
33:04
have been released on a single condition. He comply with the law referring to the public health orders.
33:09
Now that may not seem like much to a lot of people, but they're saying that they wanted
33:14
you to be able to be forced forced into a circumstance where you were going to have to
33:18
basically sell your beliefs down the river, but that your liberty was not violated.
33:23
And to an American, the word liberty basically is like stamped on us from the moment that we're
33:28
born. That was shocking to me that that arguments like that were being made. Now, am I framing that
33:34
incorrectly? Or is that kind of similar to some of the things that you've heard about your case?
33:38
No, I think you are. I mean, yeah, they they approached me not signing my condition as though
33:46
that's my choice that I I'm free to not sign my condition, but the the implications of not signing
33:52
are in no way an infringement on my on my civil liberties. I mean, what the judge ruled in that
33:58
in that whole initial first phase of of my trial was ridiculous. I mean, his his role and
34:06
responsibility in that moment was simply to determine whether or not my charter rights have
34:12
been infringed upon. He didn't have to decide whether it was just a file or not. He didn't have to
34:16
to say anything more than yes, his charter rights have been breached. And that would have
34:21
kicked in phase two, which is where we are now. And then we can talk about, okay, is it
34:26
justifiable? And then the government can prove it either is or it isn't based on their evidence.
34:31
But but he went into some bizarre approach in in rendering his judgment on the whole thing to sort
34:38
of assess whether or not my my liberties were infringed upon in the way the law was enforced.
34:45
And it's just, you know, it was ridiculous. And and and part of that's the problem as well. So
34:50
so right now, the, you know, the law, at least it was, it's not right now at this point in time
34:56
because all the health orders have been lifted. But but when the lockdown measures were in place,
35:00
the public health act is the law. And it's really awkward because we're we're going in and contesting
35:08
the legitimacy of that law. But the judges aren't really even acknowledging that there might be
35:14
some debate around that. I mean, they just kind of function like, yes, it's law. And and even
35:19
presuppose everything with respect to the pandemic. I mean, there were times when from my perspective,
35:25
these judges sounded like they could have been anchors on the mainstream media news. I mean,
35:29
they they're just basically espousing the the narrative and substance of everything that you
35:35
hear on, you know, the six o'clock news. And and you know, as a as a guy who who thinks a little
35:41
more critically than that goes a little bit deeper than that and doesn't just drink the
35:45
Kool-Aid of the mainstream media to hear judges talk as though the the information coming from a
35:53
government and be mainstream media is gospel. I'm just, I'm shocked that because you want your
35:57
judges to be discerning. Yeah, critical thinkers, you want them to be able to, you know, peel the
36:05
layers back on the onion, pull the curtain back and be able to see beyond what's going on here. And
36:10
that's where I would say this, I've been so encouraged by what's happened in the US. I mean,
36:15
your judicial system has proven that that there's still something of a backbone in that country
36:23
with respect to freedom. I mean, even in California, I mean, I don't even think that
36:27
church has lost anything in the whole time in the US as far as the the constitution is concerned and
36:34
yeah, in Canada, like we've lost almost everything. Yeah, I would certainly say that. And, you know,
36:40
I hope what you just said holds true five years from now, 10 years from now, because I remember
36:45
someone yesterday, I forget where it was, but I was listening to a podcast, someone was talking
36:48
about, okay, used to it was like, okay, all these kids with these dumb ideas in college,
36:52
once they get into the real world, they're not going to think that way anymore, they're going to
36:56
get a real job, they're going to pay taxes, and then they'll become more conservative. But what's
36:59
happened is these people, they get these very left leaning, you know, atheistic, narcissistic
37:04
ideals and worldviews, and then they've taken them into the corporate environment, the corporate
37:08
environment, scared to death of them, just, you know, abdicated responsibility to withhold,
37:13
you know, judgment from these people and just kind of let them run the roost for a bit.
37:17
And then someone said something about, if that's happening in colleges, how long is it until we
37:22
have woke judges? Because we certainly have left leaning judges. But what about woke judges,
37:27
people that would hear a statement that you just said and be like, that statement in and of itself
37:32
is bigoted pastor. And that's kind of thing that's a little bit concerning for me. So
37:35
I'm certainly a little bit more pessimistic than the next guy, but I'm hoping that that does hold
37:39
true for us for the long haul. But as you did mentioned, kind of getting back into what you're
37:43
going through on July 1st of this year on Canada Day of all days, Alberta dropped all of its COVID-19
37:48
restrictions. So you were able to regain access to the Grace Life Church building. I'm sure that
37:52
had to be a great thing for you all. But again, every time something good happens, you're kind of
37:56
brought back to this reminder that this isn't over, that the fight is not done. So if you would,
38:01
bring us all that this is the 7th of July, we're going to be releasing this on the 8th of July,
38:05
bring us completely up to speed as to what's happening with the legal case and what is still
38:10
to be determined in this. Well, there's a lot that's just being dropped in our province. So a lot
38:16
of the tickets and everything else are just are just being dropped. And so when it comes to our
38:20
particular issues, because we're challenging the legitimacy of some of this stuff, it's really in
38:28
the hands of the prosecutors, the prosecution as to whether or not that stuff even gets to the
38:33
point of being tested. So you need to understand this, that phase two of my trial where we potentially
38:40
put the government in the witness box to defend their lockdown measures, whether that even happens
38:45
or not, is not in my control. It's not in our control at all. It's entirely whether or not the
38:51
prosecution wants to push the envelope. So if the prosecution drops the charge against me personally,
38:57
that never happens. And from our vantage point, we would think they don't want to go into that
39:03
courtroom. We would think that that's not going to go well for them. Now, they could obviously bank
39:09
on the way that the judges have been ruling so far. And in that case, they might just bank on the
39:14
system being broke. And so even if they go in and can't produce anything that substantiates what
39:21
they've been doing, well, they might just be able to bet on the fact that the judge is going to be
39:25
unjust and is ruling anyway. So whether or not my stuff ends up coming to fruition or not is all
39:32
dependent on the prosecution. And it's very possible that could be dropped. The issue with our church
39:40
and the court summons that we're dealing with, same thing. Just don't know for sure whether or not
39:44
that'll come to fruition, not that concerned about it, to be honest with you. The legal side of it
39:49
is not really a major thing on any of our minds at this point in time. There's no way that I can
39:56
do any jail time at this point in time. Even the prospect of being held in contempt of court for
40:03
that January court order, that's gone because that court order is out, is basically obliterated
40:09
by virtue of the fact that the executive officer's health order was removed and rescinded.
40:14
So there's really no jail time that can come to fruition. There's a $1,200 ticket that I might
40:20
have to pay. But that's really like tiddly wings at this point in time. That's nothing to be too
40:25
concerned about. And so from a legal side of it, the battle not being over is more what's to come
40:32
and whether or not that's it or whether or not in the fall, we can anticipate another
40:39
round of lockdowns when flu season arrives. Because obviously at that point in time,
40:43
there's going to be a spike in cases that goes without saying. And our premier is saying all the
40:48
right things. And our premier, I think he would be akin to a state governor for you guys. And so
40:54
our premiers are the one that runs our province. And he's saying all the right things as far as
41:02
what the fall is going to look like and staying open. And he's saying there's going to be a spike
41:07
in cases and it's okay. That's part of flu season and everything else. So we'll see what happens.
41:12
But you got to keep in mind that most of Canada's lockdown right now. I mean, it's only Alberta
41:17
that I understand is open. I think there's another province that opens on the 12th. But
41:23
aside from that, I think everyone else is under lockdown measures. So it's just it's kind of a
41:31
concerning thing. I know there's a lot of guys in Ontario, for example, they're still in the
41:35
throes of a lockdown. And and it doesn't seem to be any end in sight. And so, you know, whether or
41:41
not Alberta can remain open while everyone else remains closed, that'll be interesting because
41:46
there's going to be a ton of pressure on our premier to lock things up again, I'm sure.
41:50
Well, and I mean, that's kind of thing is if if you don't look at data and if you don't operate
41:55
using logic, you can just keep things locked down forever. But I remember saying very early on in
41:58
the pandemic, Pastor James, I said, you guys better be ready. If you mean it to lock us down
42:04
until the spring of 2022, because what you're saying, you kind of have the cyclical nature,
42:09
and then you kind of get into the warmer months and then you're going to bleed right in without
42:12
having everyone on the planet be vaccinated, you're bleeding right into the flu season of 2021,
42:17
right? And then all of a sudden, there's going to be some new and unique strain of the flu,
42:22
or maybe we need to get boosters for our COVID shots. And I said from the beginning,
42:25
you better mean it. If you're going to do this, if you're going to ruin lives, if you're going to
42:29
ruin businesses, you better mean it to the end degree and all you people that are walking around
42:32
with your masks and don't want to touch anybody and doing your little elbow bumps,
42:36
you better do that every flu season. Because this was way more dangerous for your kids
42:40
than than COVID was. The flu is way more dangerous there. But hey, you're the preacher. I'm not the
42:44
preacher. So let me get off my soapbox for a second here. But you've mentioned a lot of times throughout
42:49
this interview, Pastor James, that there have been some very other very public arrests of other
42:53
Canadian pastors that have, you know, or attempted arrests, you know, for defying these COVID-19 policies.
42:59
You know, the videos have gone viral. They've been shared around. Has there been any an attempt
43:04
to kind of get all of you guys together so that you can maybe push back as a team? And I would
43:09
think that regardless of if you've been arrested or not, that people would want to join that team.
43:13
But has there been any concerted effort to basically tell the Canadian government to shove it?
43:18
Well, there's definitely some discussions that are at work right now as far as what we might be
43:24
able to do from a legal side of it. Not with a view toward any kind of retribution or vengeance
43:29
toward the government, but simply to hold them accountable for what they've done. And there are
43:34
recourses outside of what's already on the table that that could be entertained and entered into
43:40
and stuff in the context of a class action lawsuit, that kind of a thing. And so we're talking about
43:45
stuff like that. And we're considering all options for sure. With a view toward holding the government
43:54
accountable and making it more difficult for them to do this next time round so that they think twice
44:01
before they enter into the kind of battle they have with us. And what's amazing about that is,
44:07
is that there are a lot of churches that are open. You know, we aren't the only two churches
44:11
Tim and I. And so, and the government hasn't pursued these other churches, like they pursued us. And
44:20
so, you know, there's obviously a double standard going on here. It's possible that, you know,
44:26
we were just the ones that they had to kind of go after because we were the loudest and standing
44:32
the tallest and they were trying to get us to comply. And obviously they failed to do that.
44:38
So whether or not they want to pick that battle again, come the fall anyway, I don't know.
44:42
But there are, yeah, there's definitely, there's a network of pastors that have come together,
44:49
both here on the western side of Canada, as well as on the eastern side of Canada,
44:53
where we know each other and we're supporting one another. And so, there's a network of guys
44:58
that's developing that way. And there may be some legal action that's taken that can function in
45:03
that way as well. And I like how you said, you know, you're trying to get some things in place
45:07
right now for when this comes around again, right? Because it seems like western culture with both
45:12
of our respective countries would obviously be included in that, that we're slowly creeping towards
45:17
authoritarianism, towards secularism, towards tyranny. And it seems at least to me that
45:22
things have been thrown into warp speed, much of it due to government overreach
45:26
and control during COVID-19, but also how easily people were willing to give up their God-given
45:32
unalienable rights for safety, for the promise of safety, not even actual safety pastor.
45:38
And that's the thing that was just astonishing to me. And then here at this ministry, we,
45:41
we equipment to push back darkness. And we tell people that there is certainly a spiritual darkness,
45:45
but there's also a cultural darkness. And most men are not prepared to push back in any real way.
45:50
They haven't got their arguments straight in their brain. It's not something that they've ever
45:53
really thought about. But for you, do you feel that same creep as a pastor in a western country
46:00
that we're moving towards these ideologies? But it's almost scarier that we're not being
46:05
dragged there kicking and screaming. A lot of us are just whistling our way towards it.
46:09
Well, yeah. So even with the way that COVID-19 has been used and this whole idea of public health
46:17
and recognizing that there's this health agency here in our province, AHS, that was given all of
46:23
this power, I mean, it was, I never saw it coming. I never thought AHS would be at the center of,
46:30
you know, our removal of civil liberties. And it's all in the name of public health and public
46:36
health that mantra is going to be used for everything. Of course. I mean, not even like stuff that
46:44
relates to sickness, it's going to be, you know, your position on certain expressions of sexuality,
46:49
for example, it's going to be, you know, your position on matters that relate to gender and
46:54
those kinds of issues. I mean, this is going to impact everything. And so ideology is going to
47:01
end up being a matter of public health. And if you're not singing off the same song sheet as the
47:06
mainstream media and the governing authorities with respect to the ideologies of the day, you're
47:11
going to be a threat to public health. And so people need to come to the place where they don't
47:17
care about public health, where they're willing to give up public health. I mean, if you're willing
47:22
to give up your civil liberties for quote unquote public health, then you're not worthy of your
47:28
civil liberties. And you're going to ultimately lose them, you're going to lose them for good.
47:34
Because that concept public health is going to have no end to what ends up in that bucket.
47:39
Everything is going to get put in that bucket. And and if again, if you're not, if you're not
47:45
where you're supposed to be with respect to society, you're going to be pushed to the outside and
47:50
potentially even imprisoned or put in some kind of a concentration camp and not me sound like,
47:55
you know, crazy conspiracy theory, but it's not that far off given the fact that we've just gone
48:02
through what we have. Right. I mean, you read the Gulag Archipelago and you're like, Oh, that
48:05
couldn't happen now. It is happening already. Like there are there are Muslims that are in
48:10
camps just like that or worse in China right now. But I think in the last couple of days, Governor
48:15
Cuomo, the governor of the state of New York here in my country, he basically came out and
48:19
declared a public health crisis of guns, like gun violence, right? Like, like there are guns
48:25
on the loose in New York, like without anybody holding them, just running and taking people out.
48:29
Has nothing to do with his policies or policies of other Democrats in his state, mind you,
48:33
it's the guns. It's a public health crisis. But it's one of those things too that I'm reminded
48:37
of pastor, whenever people are making the abortion argument, they're like, okay, you know, if the
48:42
mother's health is in danger, then we need to really, really take care of that. It's like,
48:46
whoa, wait, you snuck that in there. You said the mother's health. And you think the listener
48:50
hears physical health. But when pushed on it, you're going to say not only her physical health,
48:55
what about her psychological health? What about her relational health? What about her job health?
48:59
What about her financial health? Right. So we can kill this baby in the womb because financially,
49:03
her health isn't going to be where it needs to be. So it's these word games that people just love to
49:07
play. I guess before we move into to the last section here, what is the because this has all been kind
49:13
of pessimistic and dire, which is my fault because I'm driving a train here. But as a pastor, as
49:17
somebody that that understands the light that understands the gospel, as I do as well, what is
49:22
the positive that we should be looking for here? Because there's a lot of lamenting about the
49:26
church's status in the world and how we've lost all of our influence and all those different things.
49:31
But what should we be excited about? What should we be looking forward to?
49:34
Well, we got to be looking forward to the return of Christ. I mean, all of human history is moving
49:41
toward his return. And he is our hope. Our hope is a certain hope. And so we need to be
49:46
anticipating eagerly awaiting the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. And he truly is King of Kings
49:54
and Lord of Lords. And so regardless of what we experience this side of heaven, our responsibility
50:00
is to be faithful and obedient. And as we do that, there is a crown of righteousness that awaits us.
50:05
And so our responsibility is to preach the gospel, call men, women and children to repentance and
50:11
faith in Christ, to herald the resurrection of Christ and the glory that is to come. And ultimately,
50:19
know that as we are faithful and walk in obedience to him, even when it's difficult, and there's a
50:24
great cost, that in the end, everything's going to be made right. And we are going to be able to enjoy
50:31
his presence in a new heavens and new earth for all of eternity and to the glory of God the Father.
50:38
And so that is our hope. Christ is our hope. This is not our home. We are citizens in heaven
50:46
and citizens of heaven. And so we, that's where our heart and mind need to be.
50:51
Excellent. That is the gospel message. Well, we're going to get into our last section here,
50:55
our last segment, rather. And it's called what would you say to someone that said,
50:59
okay, so I haven't done this in a couple of interviews because they've been a little bit
51:02
too serious. So we're going to kind of bring it back. But basically, this is lightning round. So
51:06
I'm going to say, what would you say to someone that said, I'm going to give you a little snippet.
51:09
It may have been, you know, something bad someone said about you or just kind of a random topic,
51:13
but you get 30 seconds maximum to give me an answer. We'll just burn through these as we come
51:18
towards the end. So you up for it? Yeah, let's go for it. Okay, here we go. First one,
51:22
what would you say to someone that said, this is dumb. Grace Life Church should have just complied.
51:30
Yeah, man, I'm on a loss from words. I don't even know what I would say to that. I, you know,
51:40
here, give me another one and come back to that one. All right, we'll give you a couple more,
51:45
and then we'll sneak it back in. What would you say to someone that said,
51:47
Pastor James Coates created this situation so that he could appear to be a martyr?
51:52
Yeah, so that's ridiculous. I mean, who in the world would choose this? Who in the world would
51:57
choose 35 days in prison for that? I mean, the only way that someone could impune my character
52:04
that way is if that's a reflection of their own heart that they would want that kind of vain glory.
52:10
No, it's ridiculous. I mean, there's no way anyone would choose this unless they were
52:16
a moron. See, lightning round isn't that hard. You just end with an insult, and then it all works
52:23
out well. So let's keep this going. All right, what would you say to someone that said,
52:27
this wouldn't have happened if Grace life were in America?
52:30
Well, it depends on the state, I guess. I mean, there are, there are states that maybe it could
52:35
have happened. I don't know. I know there are a lot of, there's a lot of pushback in California,
52:39
for example, and the churches have come out, you know, strong in the legal system on that
52:45
front. But yeah, I don't know that, that the US is too far away.
52:49
I would like to say you're wrong, but I can't say that for sure. Next one here. What would you
52:54
say to someone that said COVID-19 is just a trial run for a bigger future government power grab?
53:00
Oh, I think that's got to be true. I mean, it's, you know, you have to condition people for
53:06
totalitarianism. And so this was a test to see whether or not people would roll over and hand
53:14
over their civil liberties for the sake of public health. And I think in a lot of cases that the
53:19
governing authorities have seen, that's exactly what people will do way easier than they thought
53:23
it was going to be. All right. Next one here. What would you say to someone that said,
53:26
this is dumb. Grace life church should have just complied.
53:29
Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, we're here to honor and glorify Christ. And so I can understand
53:36
that if you believe that that honoring Christ is dumb, then you're going to believe that that
53:42
keeping our doors open is dumb. But at the end of the day, we're not here to submit to Caesar as
53:48
head of the church. Christ is the head of the church. The word of God needs to dictate the terms of
53:53
worship. And so we think it would be dumb to do anything but what we did.
53:57
See, I snuck it right back in there. That was super smooth. Great job, pastor. Just a few more
54:02
here. What would you say to someone that said, the church in the West will never regain its prominence?
54:08
Well, I mean, at the end of the day, I don't even know.
54:12
You know, I guess if you got a post millennial eschatology, then then you have this notion that
54:19
that the church is going to ultimately take over the world. I don't have that eschatology. I'm
54:24
pre-millennial in my eschatology. And so my outlook on the future is pessimistic. So I don't
54:30
know that there will ever ever be a time when the West is demonstrating the church as a powerhouse
54:38
in society. But in this season, the true churches, those who are truly in Christ, are going to shine
54:45
brightly. And that, you know, the light shines brightest in the darkness. So as everything gets
54:51
dark around us, we shine more brightly. And that's a that's a good thing. All right, next one here.
54:56
What would you say to someone that said the church in the church in the West should never
55:01
regain its prominence? Well, I guess, I mean, I'm trying to figure out who would be saying that.
55:09
I guess, you know, I guess let me give you a little bit more context of that, just kind of give you a
55:13
little bit because it was a small difference from the last one that said it will never.
55:17
This one is should never. There are a lot of people out there that are saying the church has acted
55:21
wrongly during this time period. They showed that they didn't love their neighbor. They
55:25
didn't love thy neighbor because they wanted to keep things open and kill grandma. So a lot of
55:28
people would just say, Hey, the church in the in the West should never gain its prominence back
55:33
because the church is dangerous. And then you start getting into the ideology and the exclusivity
55:37
of, you know, the gospel and things like that. So what would you say to someone that would say
55:41
that it shouldn't ever regain its prominence? Well, I think what that person is going to realize is
55:47
that when you remove the church from society, you end up with something you never thought you
55:52
were going to get there are a lot of people out there that are ignorant about what the left wing
55:56
wants to thrust upon the Western world. And they think that, you know, they can sort of have the
56:02
morality they want be imposed on society and everything's going to be okay. What they feel to
56:06
realize is that at some point in time, all of the totalitarianism that is being, that is being
56:12
foisted upon the church, for example, is going to end up being directed at them. And they just can't
56:18
see what's coming. They have no ability to discern the sign of the times. And so I think what they're
56:24
going to realize is that if the church is removed out of society, that it's going to end up resulting
56:31
in harm to them. The mob will come for us all a couple more. What would you say to someone that said,
56:36
I want to fight back against government overreach, but I don't know how to.
56:40
Yeah, I mean, I don't even know. I see, you know, in my case, I'm a pastor. And so because the
56:48
government reached inside the walls of the church, well, that brought me into this whole battle. I
56:54
don't even know if I would have known how to be an effective tool in this battle apart from that.
57:02
And so I think at the end of the day, you have to be, I mean, you need to be, first of all,
57:07
you need to be in Christ, because without Christ, you have no reason to take a stand for anything.
57:13
I mean, it's any stand that's disconnected from Christ is a useless stand. And so you need to be
57:19
in Christ by faith. And then from there, you need to be obedient and faithful. And that means
57:25
walking in obedience to the Lord in every situation and every circumstance, both personally and
57:31
privately, as well as corporately in the context of your local church. And it's through that
57:36
that you can stand for righteousness and be a light in this world.
57:40
All right. Last question of the day. What would you say to someone that said, how can we help?
57:47
Yeah, at this point in time, we're doing incredibly well. I mean, you know, you can be praying for us,
57:52
you know, the biggest challenge maybe on our hands right now is that our building is too small.
57:56
So we got to try and figure out how we're going to navigate that. We would love a larger facility.
58:02
And so, you know, that's probably the biggest challenge on our plate right now is how are we
58:09
going to move forward in light of the fact that we're basically breaching our fire coat capacity
58:15
when we meet in our building at this point in time. And so, so you can be praying about that,
58:19
just praying for our country, our politicians, the churches in this land, the faithful pastors in
58:27
this land who maybe haven't taken the same stand as we have. That's primarily where you can be a
58:33
blessing for us. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for spending so much time for us and getting
58:37
into all these details. I know you've had to rehash the story over and over and over. So,
58:41
I'm just glad that my listeners have gotten the chance to get this information directly from you.
58:45
But that is all for me. Is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
58:48
You know, I would just say this, that you need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved.
58:54
And so, I would just call you now if you do not know him, to look to him and believe on him,
59:00
he came as the son of God. He took upon himself human flesh. He lived a perfect life. He went to
59:06
the cross and laid down his life for the forgiveness of sins. He died and rose from the grave. And
59:11
if you would turn from your sin and believe on him, you will be delivered from the wrath of God,
59:16
joined to Jesus Christ, given a perfect record of righteousness and have the hope
59:21
that you will live even though you die physically, that there will be life after death and that you
59:27
will dwell in the very presence of God for all of eternity. And so, I would just encourage your
59:31
listeners to believe on Christ. And then, Kyle, just thank you for your time and even just for the
59:36
visibility you've given to this situation, to your listeners. We just appreciate that. And I've
59:42
enjoyed this time together. Well, thank you so much for closing with the gospel. That's always
59:45
a great way to leave it. Pastor James Coates. Thanks for coming on on Daunted Life, a man's podcast.
59:50
Yeah, thanks for having me, Kyle. There you go, guys. I hope you enjoyed the interview with
59:55
Pastor James Coates again. I keep talking about all this stuff. There is a lot of darkness that
59:59
is just right outside your door. And you got to be ready to fight against it. All right,
1:00:03
before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost at undaunted life. Our mission is
1:00:07
equipping men to push back darkness. Specifically, we do that by providing content like this podcast.
1:00:11
It helps you forge spiritual, mental and physical resilience. So the links I've got for you today,
1:00:15
I've got the Grace Life Church website. I've also got the Grace Life Church YouTube page. So you'll
1:00:19
be able to see some of his sermons and different things that come up for them. And then also the
1:00:23
Justice Center for Constitutional Freedom's website. So that is the organization that's
1:00:27
basically helping Pastor James with his fight. All right, guys. Thanks so much for listening to
1:00:31
the show. We really do appreciate it. Wherever you're listening to this, please subscribe,
1:00:34
rate and review. If you want me to come speak live at your event or on your podcast,
1:00:38
just shoot me an email to info@undaunted.life. That's iNFO@undaunted.life. Follow us on Instagram
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and TikTok and like us on Facebook and check out our website for everything else, including how
1:00:48
to donate to keep more content like this coming. Just go to www.undaunted.life. We also want to
1:00:54
think the band August Burns read for allowing us to use their entire music library for our content.
1:00:58
The Entrautto track on this podcast is our song "Cutting the Ties," which is off their 10th
1:01:02
anniversary re-recording of their album "Leveler." The links are in the description. I'm your host,
1:01:08
Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep pushing back darkness, keep forging spiritual, mental,
1:01:14
and physical resilience. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
1:01:28
You may stand as a myself. You will be revived.