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(upbeat music)
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- This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
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I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
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Let's get into it.
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All right guys, today we've got the return of Lila Rose.
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She is an alum of this podcast.
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She was here with us on episode 145.
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So for those of you that maybe I've not heard of her
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or have not listened that episode yet,
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she is the founder and president of Live Action.
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So they are a pro-life organization
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that she started in her living room
0:38
when she was just 15 years old.
0:40
And Live Action exists really just to try
0:42
to eradicate abortion entirely, right?
0:44
That's why they're here.
0:45
They do that in two ways, that one is through education.
0:48
And so they publish really the most widely read news sites
0:51
on the pro-life issue.
0:53
They're one of the most widely followed things
0:55
on all social media in terms of the pro-life cause.
0:57
And the other way that they do this
0:58
is they do investigative journalism.
1:00
So they've infiltrated the pro-abortion lobby
1:02
and the industry and actually exposed their lies
1:04
and abuses and the things that they've done
1:06
actually in some of those clinics.
1:07
And really their large online presence
1:09
is why they become a target, right?
1:11
They've been targeted for throttling of their posts
1:13
or for shadow banning and different things like that.
1:15
We don't get a lot of into that.
1:16
In this particular podcast, the main reason
1:18
why we had her back on is because she is releasing
1:21
a new book.
1:23
Guys, and if you're listening to this on time,
1:25
it is out today.
1:27
So you can go get it on all the platforms
1:29
where you can find books and it's called fighting for life,
1:32
becoming a force for change in a wounded world.
1:35
And guys, the reason why we bring on people like her
1:38
is because she doesn't mince words, right?
1:41
She doesn't look for the most politically correct way
1:44
to say something, right?
1:45
She's just going to get into it and get after it, right?
1:47
Especially on an issue like this.
1:49
There's not a whole lot of room for nuance.
1:51
There's not a whole lot of room for euphemisms.
1:53
And so we really appreciate her style
1:55
and the way that she goes about things
1:58
and her organization has grown
1:59
because she has been able to spearhead it in a direction
2:02
towards the eradication of abortion,
2:03
which is obviously something that we support here
2:06
on this podcast and have continued to support
2:08
and will continue to support into the future.
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So guys, I don't want to keep her from you any longer.
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So without further ado, let's get into it.
2:14
Lila Rose, welcome back to undaunted life of man's podcast.
2:20
- Thanks for having me on.
2:21
Great to be back.
2:23
- Yeah, we're happy to have you on it.
2:24
I just got to tell you, as you know,
2:26
you were the very first female guest
2:28
of undaunted life, a man's podcast.
2:30
But since then, we've had Taya Kyle, we've had Holly McKay.
2:33
And this is a good time to tell all my listeners.
2:35
We have a very simple filter.
2:37
And it's a single filter through which,
2:39
if a female comes on our show
2:40
to talk to our highly male audience,
2:42
that they have to make one thing true.
2:45
They have to be a gangster.
2:46
And you certainly are, Taya is, Holly is.
2:49
And so that is the only thing we don't have people
2:51
on here for no reason, but we appreciate the way
2:53
that you fight and we're gonna get a lot into that today.
2:55
So thank you again for coming back on.
2:58
- Thanks for having me.
2:59
- Absolutely.
3:00
There are some congratulations in order
3:01
because last time you barely mentioned this
3:03
the first time you came on our show
3:04
that you were going to be releasing a book, but we're here.
3:07
Guys, if you're listening to this
3:09
or watching this on time, your new book,
3:11
you're technically your first book has been released.
3:13
It's called fighting for life,
3:15
becoming a force for change in a wounded world.
3:18
So guys, don't worry in the show notes.
3:19
You will have all the ways that you can go
3:20
and pick up the book.
3:22
But the thing that was interesting about this book,
3:23
I just finished it a couple of days ago
3:25
and it was fantastic, is it's hard to categorize, right?
3:28
And I know a lot of people love their categories.
3:30
And so it's kind of an autobiography,
3:32
but it's kind of not.
3:33
And it's kind of a political advocacy book,
3:36
but not really that much.
3:37
So I guess just briefly,
3:38
how would you categorize the book that you wrote for us?
3:41
- So I actually categorize it.
3:43
I've categorized it as a manual.
3:45
And yes, it's a lot of stories in there of life action
3:48
behind the scenes, my own life.
3:50
There's obviously a lot of like pro life,
3:51
like fight for life,
3:53
but it's really designed to give the tools and the lessons,
3:56
some of them more spiritual, more sort of personal,
3:59
and then some of them more practical
4:01
for what does it look like
4:02
to become a force for change in the world?
4:04
And so I wanted to lay out the lessons I've learned
4:07
to provide other people that support in their own journeys
4:11
in fighting for life and fighting to make our world better.
4:14
- When you got a lot of high praise,
4:16
even in the very first few pages of the book,
4:19
you're getting high praise from people like Lee Strobel
4:21
and David Daladin and Abby Johnson,
4:23
but also a fan favorite of me in this podcast.
4:25
And that's Ben Shapiro,
4:26
what he wrote about your book was this.
4:28
Lila Rose is one of the most courageous warriors
4:30
for truth and life in America today.
4:32
Her voice is indispensable.
4:34
And in this book, you'll learn why she fights
4:36
and how you can fight too.
4:38
So I guess just, I would like to know
4:40
what it's like to have people like that
4:42
to think so highly of you and the work that you've done
4:44
and the work that you're putting out in this space.
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- Well, it's super kind,
4:49
but I think it's the results of,
4:52
I mean, working over the last 10, 15 years
4:54
and trying to making mistakes, getting up again,
4:58
getting back in the ring, getting back in the ring.
5:00
And I'm not perfect.
5:02
I've made lots of mistakes.
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I share some of them in the book.
5:05
I'm still learning.
5:06
I'm still learning how to get back in the ring.
5:07
It's constant training.
5:08
It's new levels of training
5:10
and learning how to get out there
5:12
and make a difference in the world.
5:14
But I think other people who are on that wavelength,
5:17
they want to make a difference, who want to fight.
5:19
When they see other people trying,
5:21
they try to encourage them.
5:23
So maybe they're a little overly nice
5:25
in those comments at the beginning of the book,
5:26
but I think Ben's a fighter.
5:28
That's why he's like, you go, you go, girl, fight.
5:31
And other people that,
5:33
where it was very blessed with their kind words,
5:35
they're fighters too.
5:36
And so I think that sort of shared spirit of like,
5:38
we want to fight for what's right.
5:41
You know, bonds us together.
5:43
- Yeah, and I think that that's,
5:45
I kind of said a tongue in cheek earlier
5:46
about us having gangsters on the podcast,
5:48
but that's just true of people that are fighters.
5:51
Like no one would look at Ben Shapiro and think,
5:53
oh, I'm scared of this person physically, right?
5:55
He's not a physically frozen person,
5:57
but intellectually he's a fighter
5:59
and he would fight you tooth and nail.
6:00
You know what I mean?
6:01
Like, so I think it just,
6:02
it gives people a little bit of a different definition
6:04
of courage and people that are willing
6:06
to enter the fray as a fighter.
6:07
But what I want to do now is I want to go ahead
6:09
and get into a bunch of quotes from the book
6:10
because it's going to be impossible
6:11
to encapsulate all the great stuff from the book.
6:13
That's why we're encouraging all of our listeners
6:15
to go buy it, but right before part one of the book,
6:18
you have this quote here.
6:19
"The world needs men and women of conviction
6:21
"who would not sit by as the battle rages.
6:23
"Let's dare to dream of a world that is better
6:25
"and together boldly enter the fray to make it so."
6:29
And so with that, why do so many supposed pro-lifers
6:34
sit idly by?
6:35
Because I see that all the time, oh yeah, I'm pro-life.
6:37
Have you ever done anything that anyone would even know
6:41
that that's the case about you?
6:42
And the answer is almost always no.
6:43
Why does that happen?
6:45
- Mm-hmm, a couple of things.
6:47
I think we've put ourselves in a box of what's possible.
6:50
We're so used to habitually living the normal life,
6:53
the normal life of work at your job,
6:55
maybe have your family, I mean, that's beautiful,
6:57
that's awesome.
6:58
Go to church on Sundays, watch TV in the night,
7:01
go to bed, do it again the next day.
7:03
And we forget that first of all,
7:06
you can make the normal life extraordinary
7:09
with the love and the intention that sacrifice
7:11
you've been to each thing you do.
7:12
But actually, there's more to life than the normal life.
7:17
And we have to allow ourselves,
7:19
and I talk about this in the book,
7:20
to let our hearts be stirred and broken
7:24
for what's happening out there.
7:25
We have to open our minds and our hearts
7:28
to the realization of the crisis on our doorsteps.
7:31
Because it's easy to live normal, in America,
7:34
we have food over, roots over our heads,
7:36
food in our mountain, our valleys.
7:38
We have so many privileges and gifts.
7:40
We're not living in the third world where violence is
7:42
on the street, you know, that we're afraid
7:44
of like our family every night, you know, dying or whatever.
7:47
We have so many securities.
7:48
And so we have to allow ourselves to see,
7:50
there are people literally in our own cities
7:53
who are being torn to shreds, you know,
7:55
human beings, children, who are being dismembered,
7:59
destroyed legally with full consent of the law.
8:02
And we're just living our lives as if it's all happening.
8:04
We can't live that way.
8:06
We have to rouse ourselves to action.
8:08
And that's gonna be uncomfortable.
8:10
I talk about that in the book.
8:11
Like get ready to be uncomfortable.
8:13
It's gonna be leaving our comfort zone.
8:15
It's gonna be standing alone sometimes and looking different.
8:17
You have to be willing, an activist, a world changer,
8:20
a revolutionary, a Christian has to be willing
8:24
to be uncomfortable, to put ourselves in situations
8:26
that seem unusual in order to stand for what is right
8:31
and truly love.
8:32
And so I talk about a lot in that book
8:34
and I think pro-life activism, I think every single Christian,
8:36
if you're a man listening to this podcast
8:38
and you haven't gone outside an abortion clinic,
8:40
just even to pray for a half hour, just to stand there.
8:43
You don't have to say or do anything.
8:44
You just stand there and you pray.
8:45
And you recognize what's happening.
8:46
There's children being killed, the women being lied to.
8:49
This is this blood business.
8:50
But you pray and you intercede.
8:51
You ask God for mercy on those moms, those children,
8:54
the men who are complicit.
8:56
And you ask for God to show you what you can do.
8:59
This is one step.
9:00
I mean, peaceful resistance can be prayer.
9:03
You know, that's the first step,
9:04
but physically placing ourselves at the doorstep,
9:07
you know, on the public sidewalk,
9:08
obviously you don't need to trespass.
9:11
You just stay on there.
9:12
Let yourselves be changed by that.
9:13
And then you start to find out ways
9:15
to get more activist, to get more involved in the movement.
9:17
So, you know, we always encourage us to be peaceful activism,
9:20
but there's so many ways to do it
9:21
where you push me on below, where you make a difference.
9:23
And so I would start with get outside of your comfort zone
9:26
and be ready to be uncomfortable.
9:28
That is a key first step.
9:31
- We're constantly encouraging guys to be uncomfortable
9:33
'cause we talk about cultivating spiritual,
9:36
mental and physical resilience and toughness.
9:38
And I think what encapsulates a lot of what you just said,
9:40
there Lila is a quote from the first chapter of your book,
9:42
which is just allowing our hearts to remain broken
9:44
for people in danger, especially the most vulnerable,
9:47
is a necessary pain.
9:50
There's a lot of pain that we experience
9:52
that there's no necessary to it,
9:54
at least not that we can see, right?
9:55
Not that we can surmise.
9:56
But I think that informs a lot of what we would do.
9:59
And especially when it comes to defending truth.
10:01
And so I want to kind of skip ahead to chapter six
10:03
of your book because I think there are some truths,
10:04
especially around people like Margaret Sanger
10:06
and Planned Parenthood that are not known
10:09
by a lot of people that would consider themselves pro-life.
10:11
So I'll read a quote here.
10:12
"A proud eugenicist and matter of fact,
10:14
a humanizer, Sanger, that's Margaret Sanger,
10:16
viewed herself and her allies as champions of progress
10:19
and women's rights.
10:20
She would not have been a champion of a family like mine.
10:23
The most merciful thing that a large family does
10:25
to one of its infant members," Sanger said unashamedly,
10:28
"is to kill it.
10:30
Taking its cue from its founder,
10:31
Planned Parenthood would go and to kill millions
10:33
of American children and advocate
10:35
against every single proposed abortion restriction."
10:38
So the reason why I bring that quote up
10:40
is because most people look at,
10:42
and I mentioned this in the last podcast I did with you,
10:44
Planned Parenthood is just this mortally neutral thing, right?
10:46
It's just basically, it's like a 24-hour clinic.
10:49
It's like, oh, I can either go to Planned Parenthood for this
10:51
or I can just run to the doctor's office real quick.
10:53
But they don't understand the evil
10:55
of a woman like Margaret Sanger.
10:57
They don't understand the evil of the inner workings
10:58
of Planned Parenthood and we could certainly spend
11:00
the rest of our time together just talking about that.
11:03
But from your perspective,
11:04
have you noticed that a lot of people on the pro-life side
11:06
don't even know who Margaret Sanger is,
11:08
doesn't even know some of the things that she believed
11:10
and why she started the organization she did?
11:12
- Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
11:13
A lot of people I think are pro-life in the sense,
11:15
they're like, oh yeah, I'm personally against abortion,
11:18
but once you start to actually take time to study,
11:21
and in the book, along with this manual,
11:24
it's tons of information about the abortion industry,
11:26
of course, once you take time to actually look at
11:28
what's happening and what has happened in this country,
11:31
really over the last 100 years,
11:33
since Planned Parenthood was founded, it's mind-blowing.
11:36
There is a multi-billion dollar abortion industry
11:39
in this country that has deep pockets
11:41
that is actually behind some of the most powerful
11:43
politicians in the world that has friends
11:47
and highest places in corporate America.
11:49
Social media companies, the CO of Facebook,
11:52
gives millions of dollars to Planned Parenthood.
11:54
Every year, their abortion numbers,
11:56
over the last 10 years, have increased.
11:57
The overall abortion rate is slowly dropping.
11:59
Thanks be to God, thanks be the hard worker
12:01
of the pro-life movement and mothers choosing life,
12:03
but Planned Parenthood's numbers are going up.
12:06
They have a goal.
12:07
They want to kill, they want to lie,
12:09
and they want complete domination,
12:11
not just of the United States.
12:12
They're in other countries trying to legalize abortion
12:14
in Argentina, they just did it in Ireland,
12:16
they did it two years ago, they are working daily.
12:18
So this is a battle.
12:20
There is evil, evil is real.
12:22
Of course, we wanna persuade and convert.
12:25
We wanna pray for the people that are
12:26
in the abortion industry.
12:28
We ultimately give them to the mercy of God
12:31
as we give ourselves,
12:32
but we have to fight the lies that are being told.
12:34
We have to fight on the political terrain
12:36
and the cultural terrain.
12:37
And so, the book details a lot of that,
12:39
but yeah, Margaret Sanger, she was a dehumanizer,
12:41
a eugenicist, but she's a woman who's dead now.
12:45
God rest her soul,
12:46
may she have converted at the last moment,
12:48
but she founded a corporation that has killed by itself,
12:52
just in the United States, over 3 million children.
12:55
And that's just in the last 15 years.
12:58
She is responsible for the political lobby
13:01
that would eventually develop
13:02
that has killed 60 million children
13:05
in the last 40 years in America.
13:07
The global death toll to abortion is over 100,000 daily,
13:11
children, 100,000 globally,
13:13
because of an abortion agenda
13:15
that started in the United States largely.
13:17
We started it.
13:18
So we gotta educate ourselves,
13:20
and we gotta be willing to fight this.
13:21
And part of fighting it is knowing what's happening
13:24
so we can educate other people.
13:26
- Well, obviously the United States,
13:27
we're very proud about our exports,
13:29
but we have exported some very evil things,
13:31
even as a nation that was founded on Christian principles,
13:34
even though that's uncomfortable for people to even talk about.
13:36
But I think it goes to a quote that I believe was in your book,
13:38
where it's attributed to Joseph Stalin,
13:40
which is that a single death is a tragedy,
13:42
but a million deaths is a statistic.
13:44
And so it's like, if your child dies,
13:47
or if your neighbor dies, you feel that.
13:49
But if someone's neighbor across the world dies,
13:51
it doesn't hit you the same.
13:53
And when we talk about things like the Holocaust,
13:55
or when we talk about slavery,
13:56
when we're talking about any of these things,
13:57
or the Gulags, or Maoist China,
13:59
there's all these huge numbers
14:00
that we literally can't wrap ourselves around.
14:02
We can't wrap our minds around these types of things.
14:05
And it just kind of goes to this idea
14:07
where we just end up numbing ourselves.
14:08
We're like, we're just numb to these numbers.
14:09
Oh, another million babies were killed
14:12
in abortions in America this year,
14:14
and we just don't even really think about it.
14:15
And I think that that kind of head in the sand attitude, Lila,
14:19
it really carries over into the church,
14:20
which there's a quote from chapter seven of your book,
14:22
'cause a short one is just this.
14:24
Despite the prevalence of abortion,
14:26
even among churchgoers, which is true,
14:28
our pastors never addressed the topic at youth group
14:31
and would very rarely address it
14:33
with the larger congregation.
14:35
So you were talking specifically about your upbringing
14:38
at your church, right?
14:40
But I can tell you, and sure this is a news to you,
14:42
that is indicative of churches across the globe,
14:45
the church that I attend now,
14:46
every church that I've ever attended,
14:48
if they talk about abortion, they mention it.
14:51
They just kind of mention, oh, it's bad,
14:53
and it isn't culture going to hell in a handbasket,
14:55
and they just mention abortion in this litany
14:57
of other evil, horrible things
14:59
that are going on in our country, right?
15:01
But it makes me furious, Lila,
15:03
that these pastors, these, really,
15:07
these effeminate pastors that just can't stand up
15:09
for themselves, they have no spine,
15:11
that they're not really addressing this issue
15:13
with the requisite amount of force.
15:16
Do you see the same thing?
15:17
Have you seen some changes to that?
15:19
Help me, help bring me down,
15:21
'cause I'm getting serious, I'm probably turning red,
15:22
but like, help me understand why they're doing that.
15:25
- I mean, imagine, just contextually,
15:27
if there were toddlers, beautiful little toddlers,
15:30
two-year-olds being dragged to killing centers
15:33
where they're dismembered by their parents,
15:34
and the church, literally a mile away is like,
15:37
praise the Lord, Jesus, and they're not doing anything.
15:39
There's no full-time ministry to stop it.
15:41
There's no full-time political action to stop it.
15:43
What is the church?
15:45
But that's happening, they're younger than toddlers,
15:48
they're two years younger, they're in the womb,
15:50
but they're just as human, just as a child,
15:52
and just as much a child, and so I feel that burn,
15:56
and I know even myself, I gotta do more, myself,
15:59
and my family, we gotta do more, this is a crisis,
16:02
and it's good to feel that burn, let yourself burn,
16:04
let yourself get angry, let yourself, your heart break.
16:08
Look, if you are in a church and your pastor's not
16:09
talking about abortion, keep knocking on his door,
16:12
sit down with him, meet with him, love him, say hey,
16:16
what about this, what about this?
16:17
Offer, be the man who goes in there and says,
16:20
I will help start the full-time parole administering this church.
16:23
Here I am, I have my job, but I will dedicate,
16:27
whatever I can do to make sure that this church
16:30
is involved in educating, in activating, and in serving,
16:34
making sure that any pregnant mom, even a single mom,
16:37
she does not feel like she has to go to that abortion clinic,
16:39
she has embraced, she has supported,
16:41
we educate our young people, there's post-abortion ministry,
16:44
be the change in your church, be the change in your church.
16:48
Don't just be like, oh, I'm a pastor driving me nuts.
16:50
If your pastor's a pastor is driving you nuts
16:52
and you have done nothing about it,
16:53
that's your fault at the end of the day, you know?
16:56
And I tried to put that to practice myself,
16:58
you know, when I realized about abortion,
17:00
my pastor's not doing anything as I could see,
17:03
I had not kept knocking the door from my pastor,
17:05
I'm like, hey, I want to give a acrylic presentation
17:07
to my youth group, you know, I kept, for a year,
17:09
I begged him, and I, you know, did all this work
17:12
to prepare it, and finally he let me.
17:14
So, you know, you can make progress,
17:16
but you have to be willing to be the one
17:17
who makes the progress.
17:19
- Right, I think that's an important point,
17:21
and I've told guys to do this in other contexts as well,
17:24
but a lot of pastors sometimes think
17:25
if they say something bold from the pulpit,
17:28
that no one's gonna have their back,
17:29
and they're afraid of that.
17:30
And so I tell guys all the time,
17:32
whatever the issue is within your church,
17:33
just to tell them, pastor, if you decide to go,
17:36
if you decide to draw a line in the sand
17:39
on the subject of abortion, or pick an incendiary topic,
17:43
I will be standing on the side of the line where you are,
17:45
I will back you up, I will protect you,
17:47
I will cover you in prayer,
17:49
and, you know, cover you physically, if need be.
17:51
But I think a lot of people don't really have that,
17:53
have that in them from the church side,
17:55
but then there are also some cracks,
17:56
and I think you brought this up in your book as well,
17:58
with certain pro-life organizations,
18:00
where there's things that they could be doing
18:02
that instead they're choosing not to.
18:04
I don't think that's very indicative of live action
18:06
in what you've built, Lila.
18:07
But there is a quote from chapter 16
18:09
that I'd like to get a little bit more context on and insist.
18:12
What troubled me more than death threats
18:13
was hearing some leaders of like-minded organizations
18:16
say behind closed doors that they couldn't support our efforts
18:19
because the time wasn't right yet.
18:21
Leaders who didn't seem to think
18:22
that defunding the abortion industry was even possible,
18:25
at least not for years or even decades.
18:28
These should have been our allies.
18:29
Instead, they were becoming obstacles.
18:31
They had other agendas,
18:33
and defunding Planned Parenthood wasn't one of them.
18:35
It seemed to me that for some of them,
18:37
the time would never be right.
18:39
And so from the outside looking in,
18:41
you live this fight, you know, every minute of every day,
18:43
I feel like that quote is indicative
18:45
of a lot of pro-life organizations.
18:47
And I guess the question is,
18:48
is it because if abortion is criminalized,
18:51
then that organization won't have any power anymore,
18:54
and there won't be anything to fundraise against it?
18:56
You know what I mean?
18:57
- Yeah, I've heard that complaint.
18:59
You know, what I really think it is,
19:00
is it's just getting that normal, like that inertia,
19:04
like being unafraid to push the envelope,
19:06
being afraid to push the envelope,
19:07
being afraid of leaving the comfort zone,
19:09
getting so used to business as usual,
19:11
that you're afraid of trying something different
19:14
because business as usual sometimes has worked.
19:16
And listen, live action can fall into this.
19:18
Any organization, any individual,
19:20
any activist can fall into this.
19:22
You start out strong, you're an activist,
19:24
you're doing stuff, and then you're like,
19:25
oh, you keep doing it,
19:26
and you kind of get comfortable with what you're doing,
19:28
and you keep doing it,
19:29
and then someone else says, what about this?
19:30
Maybe you should try this and say it's more effective,
19:32
or it's smarter, or it's better,
19:33
and you're like resistance, you're resistant to the change.
19:36
So I wouldn't go as far as saying,
19:37
oh, they personally are just trying to keep their jobs
19:40
as much as they're just fearful
19:43
of being uncomfortable, which again goes back to,
19:46
we have to always allow ourselves to be uncomfortable.
19:48
We should never get comfortable in our activism,
19:50
we should never get comfortable
19:52
in the demands politically that we're making.
19:55
And so when I was demanding,
19:56
we gotta defund Planned Parenthood,
19:58
they were comfortable with saying,
19:59
oh, we should ban partial birth abortion.
20:02
That maybe will save a few hundred children a year,
20:05
thanks be to God, and even then,
20:06
they'll just change the abortion procedure
20:08
and kill the baby a different way,
20:09
and not a single child was saved, right?
20:12
But that was like their big thing.
20:13
That was the big thing.
20:14
It's like, let's think bigger.
20:16
What about banning all abortions?
20:18
Why are we just gonna ban a few?
20:20
Let's go for them all, go for broke.
20:22
That's what the movement should be focused on actually.
20:24
And so to this day, live action internally,
20:28
the bigger we get, the harder you can fall.
20:31
So as we get bigger and big is good, big is strong,
20:33
but as we get bigger, it's like, look,
20:35
we gotta keep the edge.
20:36
Keep the edge of what are we really fighting for
20:38
and be willing to risk and get uncomfortable to achieve it.
20:40
So that's sort of how I diagnosed
20:42
that sort of comfort zone activism,
20:45
comfort zone pro-life work.
20:46
And I think anybody can fall into it,
20:48
including myself, including live action,
20:50
if we're not willing to stay uncomfortable.
20:53
And so that I think is the denominator and those leaders,
20:56
they were just same old business as usual,
20:59
but business as usual wasn't enough.
21:02
It wasn't solving.
21:03
Planned Parenthood was getting more money than ever.
21:05
So it's like, we gotta switch it up.
21:06
And so I have a chapter called Pivot,
21:08
which is about switching your strategy
21:10
to make it more effective.
21:12
Don't get used to whatever you've been doing in the past,
21:14
'cause you've always done it.
21:15
Switch up your strategy, keep trying new things
21:18
to push the envelope to be effective.
21:20
And I'm still doing that today.
21:22
The game's not over.
21:23
The fight is on.
21:25
We have so much more work left to do.
21:26
- Well, I think the way he said is comfort zone activism.
21:29
That's kind of like jumbo shrimp.
21:31
Those things do not work together.
21:33
Both of those things could not be the same thing.
21:35
But I was gonna go into this a little bit later
21:37
in the podcast, but you mentioned it,
21:39
so I wanna go ahead and go there.
21:40
I feel like there are a lot of half measures being done.
21:44
And then a half measure is done, a bunch of morons clap,
21:47
and then we go on about our regular life.
21:49
So we celebrate heartbeat bills,
21:51
but some abortions take place before the heartbeat.
21:53
And you've detailed cases.
21:55
I've heard other cases detailed of Planned Parenthood
21:57
doesn't want to find the heartbeat.
21:59
And so you can manipulate what's going on in the room
22:01
to where you don't find a heartbeat, right?
22:03
And we celebrate states that are born
22:05
that say you can't do an abortion
22:07
for the listed reason of Down syndrome.
22:09
But a woman could just as easily say
22:11
that they want an abortion for literally any other reason,
22:13
and they can get it.
22:14
It can be granted to them.
22:15
You saw the LA Times article from,
22:18
as I was listening to this,
22:19
it will have been a couple of weeks ago saying,
22:21
a woman shouldn't have to give a reason.
22:22
They should be able to get an abortion for any reason.
22:24
So I think this begs the question, Lila,
22:26
which is should we still be trying these half measures
22:29
legislatively, or should we only want
22:32
the full criminalization of the practice of abortion?
22:35
- Yeah, so the end game and the focus
22:37
needs to be full criminalization, 100%.
22:40
So live action, we'd say two things.
22:42
Full legal protection and defund all abortion.
22:45
Like those are the two,
22:47
if you're gonna come to me for political strategy advice,
22:49
I say defund any, even including hospitals,
22:52
anybody that does abortions,
22:53
and then full legal protection of children, period.
22:57
Will we still celebrate a heartbeat bill?
22:59
Like if I see legislators doing a heartbeat bill
23:02
in a state that there wasn't one,
23:03
do I think that that is better
23:05
than what was there before?
23:06
Yes, am I gonna tell them,
23:07
okay, stop there, you're good.
23:09
Congrats, you did it, no.
23:11
So I think it's a nuance.
23:12
I think we do have to celebrate people working really hard
23:17
and doing important things that can save lives,
23:20
but I think we need to focus the end game, right?
23:22
Like you said, the end game is total criminalization,
23:24
complete legal protection,
23:26
and that needs to remain the focus.
23:27
So I think it's a both and,
23:29
and there's a lot of strategies and different philosophies
23:33
and legal theories and all this stuff,
23:35
but at the end of the day,
23:36
and I was just doing an interview
23:38
about the Supreme Court,
23:40
the Supreme Court pays attention.
23:42
You know, the whole question is,
23:44
where's the country trending?
23:46
And when we see states doing total abolition
23:49
or working towards total abolition,
23:51
heartbeat bill is the closest beyond,
23:53
you know, except for total abolition,
23:55
but it's definitely better than 20 week ban, right?
23:57
It's definitely better than, you know,
23:58
Born Alive Survivors Act to save the child
24:00
if it survives the abortion attempt, right?
24:01
Just those kids, when the Supreme Court sees the hard core,
24:05
you know, we mean business as a movement,
24:08
that makes, first of all, that affects hearts and minds,
24:10
but that does affect legal theory
24:12
that can lead to overruling Roe.
24:14
And so I do think, you know, to your point,
24:16
we got to focus end game on where it really should be,
24:18
which is personhood, right?
24:20
It's acknowledging the child just like anybody,
24:22
any other person under the law, treat the same,
24:24
you know, murder is criminalized,
24:26
each state handles that differently,
24:27
let them handle it and make sure
24:29
that those children aren't protected, but yeah,
24:32
I mean, it goes back to what are we asking for?
24:35
What are we asking for as a movement?
24:37
One of the live actions, future pivots, you know,
24:39
we've done a lot on education, changing hearts and minds,
24:41
we're gonna be launching a very robust political program
24:44
in the next two, three years
24:46
that will be aggressive on complete legal protection
24:49
because I've, you know, been dissatisfied
24:50
with our movements, half measures as you say.
24:53
Am I going to, you know, not say a half measure
24:56
is better than no measure?
24:57
No, but that means I'm gonna do my job, right?
25:00
Work to position my organization
25:02
that I can contribute and lead.
25:04
So I think that the bottom line is,
25:06
I've just long kind of long-winded it,
25:07
the bottom line is don't just complain.
25:09
If you don't like how legal strategy is done out there guys,
25:12
go on be a better legal strategist
25:14
and put the work in, build the organization,
25:16
build the political force.
25:18
Otherwise, you know, support the best out there,
25:22
support the best out there and try to make it better.
25:24
- Absolutely, and with that,
25:26
you kind of touched on it a little bit.
25:28
But as we sit here right now,
25:29
and by the time this is released,
25:30
maybe things have moved a little bit of,
25:31
as we sit here right now,
25:33
there are current bills for equal protection
25:35
for all humans in the states of Oklahoma,
25:38
my state thankfully, South Carolina, Texas and Arizona, right?
25:41
And that means the criminalization of abortion,
25:44
not the regulation of it.
25:46
But just to be honest,
25:47
and this is a little bit of my ignorance,
25:49
I can't find a lot of details on these,
25:51
and I can't find counter arguments
25:53
of whether or not these bills are just posturing
25:56
because people do that all the time.
25:57
They write a bill that knows gonna get killed in committee,
25:59
but they can at least put it on a bumper sticker
26:01
or a commercial.
26:02
But what are your thoughts on those bills
26:04
that are currently working through the system
26:05
in Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas and Arizona?
26:08
- Well, and they have to be written intelligently.
26:10
You know, I would have to read,
26:12
you know, I don't know the latest version.
26:13
I've seen some of these bills.
26:14
I've seen some that were written poorly
26:16
and some that are written intelligently.
26:17
And what I mean by that is, you know,
26:18
when pro-abortion activists say,
26:20
"Oh, you're gonna criminalize miscarriage."
26:22
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?
26:23
There's all these like complaints.
26:24
It's like, "No, of course not."
26:25
But if you're sloppy with how you write the law,
26:28
you could have, you know, an activist judge.
26:30
I don't think many of these even exist,
26:32
but let's just say theoretically
26:33
for the sake of the argument, you know,
26:35
who does something crazy
26:36
because the law was written sloppily.
26:37
So when we're working to create complete legal protection,
26:41
the laws have to be written in a really smart airtight way
26:44
to make sure that we really achieve complete legal protection
26:46
without having other weird things happen
26:48
around miscarriage or pregnancy
26:49
or things that are not intended.
26:51
So, you know, I think, you know,
26:53
there is model legislation.
26:54
I know some organizations work on model legislation.
26:57
Live action has not done that to date.
26:59
Again, we will be getting into that
27:01
because I think it's a need in the movement.
27:03
There's not enough of it being done.
27:05
But I would say, you know,
27:06
that's a great question moving forward.
27:09
You know, what is the,
27:11
who is doing it the best of those states?
27:13
I can't answer that right now.
27:15
Who has the best legislation?
27:16
I think Alabama has had really good, you know,
27:19
I've seen good things out of Alabama
27:21
for the legislation that they've tried.
27:23
But I think there's ultimately, you know,
27:25
I think there's a lack of leadership at the national level
27:28
for what does the state,
27:30
what does the ideal state legislation look like?
27:32
So that's a great opportunity, maybe someone listening.
27:34
They're like, that's a calling for me.
27:35
I know it's something live action
27:36
will be working to address, you know, soon
27:38
as we pivot yet again from education is key,
27:42
but we need more work on the political front
27:44
because there's not enough,
27:45
there's not enough focus right there.
27:46
There's not enough being done right there yet.
27:48
- Right, and so this next question,
27:50
I wasn't really planning to go there,
27:51
but you keep bringing up things that I think are important.
27:54
There's this concept of sanctuary cities
27:56
and sanctuary states.
27:57
So that's been mentioned as part of,
27:59
maybe a state can be a sanctuary state,
28:01
meaning there, we will not allow anything in this state
28:05
that, you know, lends itself to abortion.
28:07
There will be no abortions performed in this state
28:09
and basically give a big finger to the federal government
28:12
and be like, hey, we have sanctuary cities and states
28:14
that don't abide by federal legislation in law.
28:17
This is just one more thing.
28:18
What are your thoughts in terms of pro-life states
28:20
or pro-life, you know, legislators
28:22
in those states doing something like that?
28:23
- I would love to see Governor Greg Abbott, you know,
28:26
or Governor Ron DeSantis just say, nope, nope,
28:29
I'm not gonna let people kill people in my state.
28:31
Nope, not gonna have, I'm gonna call them,
28:32
call them, you know, my security forces
28:34
and we're just not gonna do it.
28:35
And just what are they gonna do?
28:36
They'll have the federal government
28:38
send in the US military to force Ron DeSantis's, you know,
28:42
you know, state, you know, authorities
28:44
to let parents kill their children.
28:47
I mean, I'd like to see that kind of, you know,
28:49
unprecedented leadership at the state level.
28:52
So to get that, to make that possible,
28:55
you've got to build a big coalition of support, right?
28:57
Behind, I mean, unless there's act of God,
28:59
a miracle of courage from that leader,
29:01
which you can pray for.
29:02
Otherwise, working in the real world,
29:04
you need to get a big coalition of support.
29:06
So again, that's another political strategy
29:09
that live actions thought about.
29:11
We're considering, we're looking at launching
29:13
a political arm for that.
29:15
If you're a donor and you're listening,
29:16
you wanna support that, we're gonna be raising money for that
29:18
and building a team for that.
29:19
But that's the kind of thing that I think needs to happen
29:22
for the tipping points politically
29:24
to really reach the end game.
29:26
And they say they're super pro-life.
29:28
So why can't they do it?
29:29
- Again, that's part of the thing.
29:31
And that really dovetails nicely into what I wanna talk about.
29:34
Next, it's an excerpt from probably
29:35
my favorite chapter in the book in his chapter 18.
29:37
But it's where we get into these people
29:38
that are very, very concerned about
29:41
what their constituents might think or say
29:43
as opposed to worrying about the people
29:44
that can't protect themselves, namely,
29:46
these babies that are in the womb.
29:47
So I wanna read these a couple of paragraphs
29:49
are separated by a little bit in chapter 18,
29:51
but I think it's fantastic.
29:51
So here, back to the book.
29:53
Those first years in DC taught me
29:55
the stark realities of politics and organization building.
29:57
We faced a decades old entrenchment
29:59
of apathy and inaction around abortion.
30:01
Yes, we were featured regularly on conservative TV shows.
30:04
We riled up activists and fired up
30:06
a few Republican members of Congress.
30:07
I met with Senate leaders.
30:08
They listened politely and agreed with me in principle.
30:11
Some even spoke with me at the press conference or rallies.
30:13
However, we also faced many obstacles.
30:15
Perhaps the biggest obstacles of all
30:17
were the desperate fear many politician leaders had
30:20
of an openly hostile media
30:21
and how the media's negative coverage of their words or votes
30:24
might impact their reputation with constituents.
30:28
And a little bit later in the chapter, you say this.
30:30
The House had the power to remove from the budget
30:32
funding for Planned Parenthood in all abortion clinics
30:34
and redirect it to authentic healthcare providers
30:37
who helped save lives instead of ending them.
30:39
Even though pro-abortion politicians controlled the Senate
30:41
and the White House, the House could refuse to approve
30:44
any budget that allowed funding for abortion clinics.
30:46
Yet, House members were afraid to do that.
30:49
If the government shut down over abortion funding,
30:51
the media would blame them and they knew it.
30:55
So Lila, in the margin of my book,
30:57
which I don't like writing in books,
30:59
it drives me nuts, it makes me feel funky, right?
31:01
I wrote who gives an F in the margin of my book.
31:05
I'll keep it PG.
31:06
But like, we're worried about what Don Lemon might say
31:09
on CNN, or we're worried about the morning show on MSNBC.
31:13
Like, you have been in those rooms and I haven't, right?
31:16
So it's okay for me to be righteously
31:17
and dignit sitting here in my studio.
31:19
But for you, what is it like when you see these people
31:22
that stand in front of their donors
31:24
or in front of their voters and say,
31:25
I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna support you
31:26
in Washington only to become a coward
31:28
the moment they get there?
31:30
- Yeah, I mean, a few thoughts.
31:32
First of all, if you get up on a table and you say,
31:34
who gives an F, which I was tempted to do
31:36
in a number of meetings, you know,
31:38
you're probably not gonna get invited back ever again
31:40
in the room.
31:41
So you gotta like, you gotta play the game enough
31:44
to be at the table, but then you have to also not care
31:47
about being at the table as your end game.
31:50
And so that's the tricky thing, you know, and again,
31:53
I haven't, we haven't succeeded yet.
31:55
So I'm talking about someone who's had some victories,
31:57
but the ultimate victory, we haven't won yet, right?
32:00
I'm still figuring it out how to get there.
32:02
And you know, I have a lot of ideas,
32:03
the political arm we're planning to launch will,
32:05
you know, have some great strategies.
32:06
But we're not there yet, as you know, Kyle,
32:08
we have not achieved protection.
32:10
You know, there's children being killed today,
32:11
2,363 children today killed.
32:15
So ultimately, you gotta play the game enough
32:20
to move the pieces while still thinking outside
32:24
of their game, because they're used to certain rules
32:27
that you can't win with, because the rules were set up
32:30
by the opposition, right?
32:32
The opposition set up the playing field right now.
32:34
The opposition said, Oh, you have to, you know,
32:38
you gotta have the media like you, right?
32:40
The opposition said, Oh, you need to, you know,
32:43
always permit some abortions because of Roe v Wade, right?
32:46
The opposition says, you know, if you do this,
32:48
then you're not gonna be elected anymore.
32:50
So they're thinking in terms of what the opposition has said,
32:53
and you have to almost introduce a new paradigm
32:56
for how to think about political success.
32:59
And you know, I think that's one of the reasons
33:00
Trump was so attractive to people, Donald Trump,
33:02
because he had this like, he had to blew through paradigms
33:05
to a degree, although for four years of Donald Trump,
33:08
Planned Parenthood funding went up overall federally.
33:10
A lot of people don't talk about that.
33:12
You know, when he funded the vaccines,
33:14
they were still using aborted baby cell lines
33:17
in the testing of several of the coronavirus vaccines.
33:20
I mean, so there were things that were done,
33:21
which like that's not good enough, right?
33:23
So it's a work in progress.
33:26
It's meeting people where they're at and urging them on
33:28
and pushing them on and prodding them on.
33:30
But I think ultimately the end game, again,
33:32
is to step outside of the system, to say, okay,
33:34
we're gonna build our own candidates.
33:37
We're gonna get behind our own, you know,
33:38
the kind of governor who would just say, no,
33:41
I'm shutting down our abortion clinics, sorry, not happening.
33:44
Again, what's the federal government gonna do
33:45
send in the U.S. militia?
33:46
Like, what are they gonna do?
33:47
We have to think really, really big here.
33:50
And we have to stop playing the games
33:52
we've been playing for the last 40 years.
33:53
I think ultimately that's the future
33:56
of achieving victory as a movement.
33:59
It's gonna be hard.
34:00
It's gonna take time.
34:01
It's gonna take building coalitions
34:03
that are bigger than we've had before.
34:05
But we gotta do it.
34:06
And I think we're gonna do it.
34:08
And I think we're positioned to do it.
34:09
You know, I think the movement, you know,
34:11
the urgency you feel, how do people feel it?
34:13
But they're looking for leaders.
34:15
They're looking for people who are willing
34:16
to push the envelope politically.
34:18
And so, you know, as we get those leaders,
34:21
I think a lot of people are gonna wanna follow
34:22
and support them.
34:24
- Absolutely.
34:25
And that's why we will continue to follow organizations
34:26
like yours and make sure that your information is out there
34:28
as you do pivot because that is very important
34:30
to the continued fight that we all face.
34:32
One thing, and this is kind of getting a little bit granular,
34:35
but this has come up for me and it's come up with me
34:36
even with discussions of people at church.
34:38
Towards the end of your book,
34:39
you talk about how abortion is never medically necessary.
34:43
Okay?
34:44
And now whenever I've said that to people,
34:46
they look back at me like I just said,
34:48
the moon is made of cheese.
34:49
Like they can't like fathom they're like,
34:52
that's your lying to me.
34:53
Why would you say something like that?
34:55
But specifically, even in high risk situations,
34:58
that is the truth, but from your perspective,
35:01
just give my listeners the words to say.
35:03
So when someone's like, you know,
35:04
well, what about the life of the mother?
35:06
You know, what about in that situation?
35:07
And they respond, abortion is never medically necessary.
35:10
And then they get the normal pushback.
35:12
What would you say to that person?
35:13
- Yeah, so first of all, just know,
35:14
there are thousands of medical professionals.
35:16
There are literally thousands of OB/GYNs,
35:19
the American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians
35:21
and Gynecologists who say definitively
35:24
that the intentional direct taking of an innocent life,
35:27
abortion, is never medically necessary.
35:29
So this is not some like activist opinion.
35:32
This is not some, you know,
35:33
idea that somebody has in Pro-Lifer.
35:36
This is the position of thousands of medical experts,
35:38
globally too, the Dublin Declaration,
35:40
thousands of medical experts saying it.
35:42
Okay, why do they say that?
35:43
And why do so many people say it is medically necessary?
35:45
Because we have taken the shortcut
35:47
of just kill the baby if there's any issue whatsoever
35:51
because it's easier, all right?
35:53
Just because something is easier.
35:54
If you're a doctor, your patient come in,
35:56
they have, you know, coronary, you know, issues,
35:58
they have their diabetes, whatever.
36:00
Yeah, would it be easier for you as a doctor
36:02
to just kill your patient so you don't have to treat
36:03
any of the issues?
36:04
In a sense, yes, right?
36:06
You don't have any issues to deal with.
36:07
There's no problems anymore.
36:09
That's not healthcare, that's murder, okay?
36:12
So in a pregnancy that's high risk
36:15
or there's an issue with the baby,
36:16
you know, maybe the baby has a disability
36:19
or an acephaly water on the brain, something like this,
36:22
you have to work to treat the child,
36:24
treat the pregnancy to make it as healthy as possible,
36:27
treat the woman to maximize the best outcomes.
36:29
But going in and intentionally killing that baby
36:32
is not a medical treatment period.
36:34
It's akin to killing your diabetic patient.
36:37
So that's the bottom line.
36:39
You know, there's a lot of, you know,
36:41
different complications that can happen in pregnancy
36:43
in very rare cases, severe complications.
36:45
In the most severe of all complications,
36:47
in a situation with preeclampsia or something where,
36:50
you know, especially if this happens later in pregnancy,
36:52
there's some serious health issue for the mother
36:55
who ongoing pregnancy.
36:56
The doctor can often monitor that pregnancy
36:58
and choose to deliver the baby early, right?
37:01
They might be the best decision,
37:02
try to make sure the baby's pass-by ability,
37:04
maybe we'll be a pre-me, deliver that baby early.
37:07
That's not an abortion.
37:09
Early delivery with the intent to fight for that baby's life
37:12
and fight for the mom's life is not an abortion.
37:14
You're trying to save the baby's life.
37:16
And abortion is going in there and saying,
37:17
I'm gonna kill the baby first,
37:18
which is what they do in an abortion and then deliver it.
37:21
Keep in mind too, for every abortion,
37:23
you have to deliver the baby,
37:24
whether it's first trimester, second trimester,
37:26
or third trimester.
37:28
The difference with health care instead of killing
37:31
is you actually try to save that child's life
37:34
instead of killing that child.
37:36
- When I think it's very important,
37:38
and I appreciate the way that you talk,
37:39
'cause you don't use a lot of euphemisms,
37:41
which I appreciate.
37:42
I tend to be a pretty to the point person,
37:44
but it's like, no, this isn't a woman's right to choose.
37:46
This is a woman paying a mercenary to murder her baby,
37:48
so she doesn't have to, right?
37:50
Like, it's okay to say things that way,
37:52
but we have to be forceful and understand
37:53
what is actually happening in these types of situations.
37:56
And that gets back to this whole concept of fighting.
37:58
And no, we're not likening this to fighting evil overseas
38:01
or even fighting in an octagon or something like that.
38:04
But I really like how you ended your book.
38:06
This isn't the very, very end of the book,
38:07
because guys, if you wanna hear that part,
38:09
which it's fantastic,
38:10
you gotta make sure that you pick up the book.
38:11
But in the last chapter, chapter 27,
38:13
you say this towards the end of the chapter.
38:15
What is the vision for which we fight?
38:17
We fight for the innocence of all children
38:19
and the right to be loved and protected.
38:21
We fight for the sacredness of every human being
38:23
from the first moment of their existence
38:24
when God Himself designs a new, unique,
38:26
and totally irreplaceable life.
38:28
We fight for justice for the day when our laws treat
38:31
all people equally and no one is left out.
38:34
We fight for that breakthrough moment
38:35
when respect for God's justice reigns in every human heart.
38:39
We fight for the dignity of every woman and girl,
38:41
and that each one might know her worth.
38:43
We fight for motherhood and fatherhood
38:45
and for the sacredness of family.
38:47
We fight for life, for the precious gift of a life lived
38:50
as fully and abundantly as God intended here on earth
38:53
and in hope of the eternity to come.
38:56
So that seems to be the calling card of this book.
38:59
Yeah, everything crescendos with that moment,
39:02
but you're very, very intentional about calling this a fight.
39:07
Why?
39:08
- Because it is.
39:11
It's a battle against evil.
39:14
Jesus Christ dying on a cross.
39:16
He was fighting for us to the point of death.
39:19
That's the example He gave us for our sake
39:21
so that we could live eternally
39:23
and because of our sin that we wouldn't be lost to death,
39:27
lost to sin.
39:28
And we have a job to get up and follow Christ.
39:31
And He says, pick up your cross and follow me.
39:34
That takes fight.
39:35
That takes fight.
39:36
And so I just would say to anybody,
39:39
back to being uncomfortable letting our heart break,
39:42
also really focusing on what we're fighting for.
39:45
I talk a lot about family and faith
39:47
because those things are beautiful.
39:50
Who are we fighting for?
39:51
What good we are fighting for.
39:53
So keep the vision of what we're fighting for in mind.
39:55
Train yourself for the battle.
39:57
I share a lot of tips I've learned
39:58
for what that looks like, strategies, tools,
40:02
and then get in there.
40:03
It's not gonna be perfect.
40:04
You're not perfect.
40:05
I'm not perfect, but God wants us to show up.
40:07
And if we are willing to do that,
40:09
I think we can change this.
40:11
I think we absolutely can change this.
40:13
We can change this country. We've changed it before.
40:15
We can change it again for the better.
40:18
And we can make this nation one that is just
40:21
instead of permitting the destruction that we've permitted.
40:24
- Well, to that end, this is my last question of the day.
40:27
This was actually my planned last question.
40:28
And it's because I tend to be a very pessimistic guy.
40:31
A lot of people, I don't strike them as pessimistic,
40:33
but I just kind of have that tendency.
40:34
The glass always have empty.
40:35
I don't know, I need some rewiring there.
40:38
But I'm also very pessimistic specifically
40:41
about abortion ever being completely banned
40:44
and criminalized in the United States.
40:46
I'm hopeful for some of the things in individual states,
40:49
but I'm a very pessimistic guy.
40:51
Am I crazy to think that that's never gonna happen?
40:54
Am I just having a lack of faith help me here?
40:57
- Yeah, I mean, I'm a student of history.
41:00
I talk a lot about history in the book.
41:02
You look at history, some of the darkest moments,
41:04
both in our country and globally.
41:05
And there was plenty of reason for pessimism, right?
41:09
Hitler was on the move, he was taking over swaths of Europe.
41:13
The United States was being crushed in so many ways.
41:16
There was nuclear warfare, there was the axis of evil.
41:20
People really thought this might be the end of the world for us,
41:22
especially with the nuclear war that was seen imminent
41:26
with the Soviet Union and the horrors going on in the Soviet Union.
41:29
There've been so many times globally.
41:31
When it looked like D-Day was here, like the global D-Day,
41:34
and it was gonna be game over soon.
41:36
And in our history, there were so many people, Kyle.
41:40
I studied this in college, and I continued to study it
41:42
as a grew-live action, and I talk a little bit about this
41:44
in the book, who said it's impossible to eradicate slavery.
41:48
This is an institution that goes back thousands of years,
41:50
and it did, it went back thousands of years.
41:53
It is impossible to eradicate.
41:55
It's just too entrenched, it's economically necessary.
41:59
Racism is natural, and even, you know, God forbid,
42:02
they would say God-given, like there would be this,
42:04
you know, Christian emphasis for it among some very corrupt pastors,
42:07
and it was just so entrenched.
42:09
And it wasn't until people said who dared to believe differently.
42:14
And I think that is a fighter.
42:15
A fighter dares to believe differently.
42:18
They refuse to accept defeat.
42:20
They refuse to accept no for an answer,
42:22
and they get up, and they keep fighting,
42:24
even when all seems lost, and God can do anything
42:26
with a fighter like that.
42:28
So be a fighter like that, because God has the ultimate victory
42:32
to hand us, if we are willing to get up and meet Him,
42:35
and have the hope in our hearts that He wants to give us.
42:38
- Well, I certainly appreciate that sentiment,
42:40
and I can't think of a better place to leave it.
42:41
I appreciate you letting us dig so much into the details of your-
42:44
- And fight with hope.
42:45
- Yeah, fight with hope.
42:46
You can't leave that one out of it.
42:47
- And I'll say one more thing.
42:48
No, one more thing.
42:49
When you're fighting, be a cheerful warrior.
42:51
You know, if you're fighting Kyle, we're fine fighting.
42:53
I'm like, we're never gonna win, but I'm gonna still fight.
42:56
Nah, that's not how you become a champion.
42:59
You go in the fight and you say, we are gonna win.
43:02
We are just gonna win.
43:03
Oh, by the way, we have God, truth, and love on our side.
43:05
How can we not?
43:06
So we are gonna win, okay?
43:08
So go in there with the winning spirit,
43:10
and watch how it infects people.
43:12
Watch how your hope and your optimism infects people.
43:15
- Absolutely.
43:16
And hopefully you didn't mean that I sound like that,
43:18
'cause I don't literally sit there and stop my feet.
43:20
Is that okay?
43:21
- No, I know.
43:22
- You know, I was a little key dig.
43:22
I'm okay with it.
43:23
I can accept it.
43:24
But no, I really do appreciate that sentiment a lot.
43:27
We've talked about a lot of the details of the book.
43:29
I was glad we were able to get into some of those details,
43:31
but that is all for me.
43:32
Is there anything else you wanna get off your chest?
43:34
- Thank you.
43:35
Thank you for being a strong leader and for speaking out.
43:39
So boldly on this, it's necessary.
43:41
And I just hope folks listening will be inspired,
43:43
encouraged by the book and join the fight.
43:45
If you're already in it, be equipped and encouraged.
43:47
And if you're not in it, please join.
43:49
- Lila Rose, thanks for coming back
43:51
on Undaunted Life on Man's Podcast.
43:54
- Thanks for having me.
43:55
(upbeat music)
43:57
- There you go, guys.
44:00
I hope you enjoyed my second conversation with Lila Rose.
44:02
And I can pretty much guarantee you
44:03
that that will not be the last.
44:05
Before we let you guys go,
44:06
we are gonna do a quick resilience boost.
44:07
As you know, by now at Undaunted Life,
44:09
our mission is equipping men to push back darkness
44:11
by providing content that forges spiritual,
44:13
mental and physical resilience.
44:15
So the resources we've got for you today,
44:16
we've got a link to the book that we talked about,
44:18
fighting for life, becoming a force for change
44:20
in a wounded world.
44:21
Now guys, you can buy this anywhere as of today.
44:23
So go support local bookstores,
44:25
support Thomas Nelson who is actually publishing this book,
44:27
support them any way that you can.
44:29
Also, I've got a link to the live action website
44:31
and a link to the Lila Rose Show.
44:32
That is her podcast.
44:33
All right guys, thanks so much for listening to this episode.
44:35
Wherever you're listening to this,
44:37
please subscribe, rate and review.
44:39
If you want me to come speak at your live event
44:40
or on your podcast to shoot me an email
44:42
to info@undaunted.life,
44:45
you can follow us on Instagram and TikTok
44:46
and like us on Facebook.
44:48
You can check out our website for everything else,
44:49
including how to donate to keep more content like this coming.
44:52
You can do that at www.undaunted.life.
44:55
And we want to thank the band August Burns Red
44:57
for allowing us to use their entire music library
44:59
for our content.
45:00
The intro outro track on this podcast
45:02
is their song Defender,
45:03
which is off their latest record entitled Guardians.
45:05
The links are in the description.
45:07
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
45:09
Remember, keep pushing back darkness,
45:12
keep forging spiritual, mental and physical resilience.
45:16
Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
45:20
♪ My need to defend us ♪
45:23
♪ My voices say that you're out that way ♪
45:28
♪ My need to defend us ♪
45:32
♪ Open and pray ♪
45:34
♪ Make more peace ♪
45:50
[BLANK_AUDIO]