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0:48
This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
0:50
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:52
Let's get into it.
0:53
All right, guys.
0:54
Today, we've got a very special guest here on the podcast and that is Taya Kyle.
0:57
So she is an author and a speaker, but she's also the widow of the late great Chris Kyle,
1:02
who is the most prolific sniper in US military history.
1:06
Most of you guys have read the book American Sniper or seen the Clint Eastwood Directed
1:09
Movie American Sniper.
1:11
So we're going to get into a lot of that information today.
1:13
But today, Taya Kyle also runs the Taya and Chris Kyle Foundation.
1:17
She has released two books that we're going to get into.
1:20
She's just released a men's and women's jewelry line.
1:22
So there you go, guys.
1:23
First time we'll be talking about jewelry here on this podcast.
1:26
But here's the thing about what we have here.
1:27
We kind of have a unique situation because never before on Undaunted Life, a man's podcast
1:32
have we had a two part interview.
1:34
But that's exactly what we're going to be doing today is part one of the interview.
1:39
And the reason why it turned into two parts is, you know, we had kind of a limited time
1:43
to chat on the first time we got together.
1:46
But the thing about Taya, she likes to give a lot of detail and she likes to really go
1:50
deep on some of the subject matters.
1:52
And so the overwhelming majority of the things that we were supposed to talk about for her
1:56
interview, we didn't really get to.
1:58
And I didn't want her to feel rushed and I didn't want to kind of feel like I needed
2:02
to check all the boxes on my interview questions list.
2:05
And so right after we got off the air after the first episode, you know, we talked about
2:09
doing this again and having a little bit longer the second time because guys, there's
2:13
some really, really interesting nuggets off of this first episode.
2:18
And they just, they needed more context.
2:20
They needed more conversation.
2:22
They just, they're needed to be a little bit more there.
2:25
And so I'm happy to report that we do have a part two coming up and that's going to
2:28
be next week.
2:29
And so you got to come back and listen to next week.
2:31
But guys, we really go deep again on this podcast.
2:35
We don't try to ask the same questions that everybody asks in every type of interview.
2:39
Okay.
2:40
We try to elicit some different responses and go into different areas.
2:43
We don't just ask kind of the canned questions that you'll get with a lot of interviews.
2:47
And we definitely accomplished that here with this first episode.
2:50
I don't really want to spoil anything, but if you know the story of Chris and Taya Kyle
2:54
and you know the story of his murder and basically the legacy that he has left here after and
3:00
the legacy of the Kyle family, you're going to love this first episode and you are going
3:04
to really love next week's episode.
3:06
So guys, without further ado, let's get into it.
3:11
Taya Kyle, welcome to Undaunted Life of Man's podcast.
3:14
Thank you so much for having me.
3:16
I got to tell you, we have really been looking forward to this podcast because you have been
3:20
a highly requested guest for us and you're our second female guest.
3:23
So you're holding it down for the ladies out there.
3:25
But one great place for us to start this interview is obviously a lot of your profile is tied
3:30
to your former husband, Chris Kyle, and just the life that you two built and you know,
3:36
the great patriotic American life for the two of you.
3:39
And a lot of your relationship, frankly, has been put out there in movies and books books
3:44
by the two of you.
3:45
So we know the story of how you met and a little bit about everything.
3:48
But I just want to kind of start off by how how your relationship was like, give us some
3:53
insight into what Taya and Chris Kyle were like to those of us who weren't actually doing
3:57
life with you.
3:58
No, yeah.
3:59
I really appreciate that.
4:00
And I hope I don't screw it up for future women guests by tanking.
4:03
No, I'm just kidding.
4:04
I think it'll be all right.
4:05
No, I'm just kidding.
4:06
I know your guys are cool.
4:07
I loved the brief.
4:08
He gave me on your audience and your listeners, so you guys are all my people.
4:13
Yeah, I, our relationship was really fun.
4:17
And I think that's a part that doesn't really fit into a dramatic movie or book, right?
4:23
But I think, you know, we're just, we, we loved everyday people, favorite kind of people.
4:30
And if, if there's a celebrity who's like an everyday person, love them too, right?
4:34
It's, but to us, those are, those were always our favorite people.
4:37
So our life was being surrounded by those kind of people and enjoying it.
4:42
We went to churches where, I mean, we laugh, but it's like, if it's like a band of misfits,
4:48
it's our kind of church, you know, we were always kind of going to like a smaller place
4:51
where it's just like, you know, we're just, we're unique.
4:55
We're individuals and, and, you know, we're so far from perfect and we don't expect anybody
5:01
else to be just the more real, the better, right?
5:03
And, and so our, our home was filled with a lot of laughter, a lot of youthful playfulness
5:09
and, and then we had these really hard times, you know, and it was weird because when I
5:15
first met Chris, we were both, I think so different, but how do I say this?
5:22
So it was a different type of person to date and yet it was a perfect fit and there were
5:27
things in his life that fit with mine and mine that fit with his, even though you might
5:32
not think it on the surface.
5:34
And so we, you know, we fell in love quickly.
5:38
We engaged quickly.
5:40
Chris, if you were here, would tell you that I stole his opportunity to propose to me because
5:44
I proposed to him and, but, you know, then, then war changes people and I didn't believe
5:54
that at first.
5:55
You know, after we got engaged, I asked my dad if he had any concerns and he retired
5:59
to Lieutenant Colonel in the Marine Corps and he was jagged, but, you know, he didn't
6:03
have combat tours or anything like that and, and spent most of his time in the reserves.
6:09
And so when I asked him if he had any reservations about me marrying Chris, he said, no, he's
6:15
an incredible guy.
6:16
The only thing that I have any pause with is that he's likely going to go to war and war
6:22
changes people.
6:23
And I was thinking, well, A, first of all, who knows if he will, but B, you don't know
6:29
Chris.
6:30
Like he does not.
6:31
He is so constant.
6:32
It doesn't matter who he's in front of.
6:34
It doesn't matter the type of event, the state, the place, the country, you know, he just
6:39
is himself.
6:41
But I mentioned that to Chris probably in the last couple months of his life and it was
6:48
the first time I'd shared that with him and he said, wow, yeah, I guess your dad knew
6:52
what he was talking about, right?
6:53
And it kind of surprised me because I thought we have changed, but that's also life for
6:58
everybody.
6:59
If you're living, you've got to be changing and growing.
7:02
I think if you're going to survive it.
7:05
And so it's a very long-winded answer, but I think the thing that would, that most people
7:12
didn't know just from the book and the movie is how funny he was, how many pranks he pulled.
7:17
I mean, our house was full of dark humor and pranks and laughter and a lot of hurt feelings
7:24
and a lot of trauma that we had to work through and a lot of us looking at each other going,
7:29
what the hell is happening to our marriage?
7:31
We were so sort of perfect for each other and then it's like, what happened?
7:37
But I learned that it was not us, it's the military life and service life, first responders.
7:43
The attacks on the marriage are so lengthy, it takes me about five minutes to list them
7:48
all out truly and we didn't know that.
7:51
So that's why I have our foundation today is to help other people, A, feel not alone
7:56
and B, to give them the tools because if you have the right tools, it's not that hard,
8:01
but without the tools, it feels impossible sometimes.
8:03
Well, I'll tell you to be honest with you in kind of following y'all's story and reading
8:08
your memoirs and Chris's memoir and like, the thing that you get is that y'all are supremely
8:13
normal, which is comforting because when you read about these amazing people that have
8:18
done these incredible things that are very unique, you just automatically put them on
8:22
some sort of a pedestal and people forget like, no, no, these are real people like they have
8:26
arguments over who's going to put up the dishes, they have arguments as to how we're going
8:30
to parent the children and that's just a normal everyday thing.
8:33
So it's comforting for guys like me and the guys that listen to this type of a show is
8:38
that man, these aren't perfect people, they're just extraordinary people that have been gifted
8:42
by God and we're putting the right place at the right time.
8:45
But I do want to go ahead and skip, I was going to talk about this a little bit later in the
8:48
podcast, but I think it's important since you brought it up, just talking about the foundation.
8:51
So there was the Chris Kyle Frog Foundation and now it's the Taya and Chris Kyle Foundation.
8:57
And so you two were developing this foundation and its principles prior to Chris's passing,
9:01
which we'll certainly get into and you've kept it going and expanded it considerably
9:05
over the years.
9:06
And the vision is to support military and first responder families and communities.
9:10
So could you give us a little bit more detail as to how you do that and maybe even perhaps
9:14
how our audience could get involved with you?
9:16
Yeah, I for sure will and I appreciate you saying that.
9:18
And then I can be like the ADD, you know, squirrel and get off track.
9:23
I want to talk about that and I also don't want to forget to come back to a point you
9:28
made about Chris and I being everyday people and how sometimes people are on a pedestal.
9:32
So how about we go ahead, let's do the pedestal first and we don't forget because I think
9:36
that's a good point and then we can get into a tack out.
9:38
Okay, perfect.
9:39
So, you know, I, one of my biggest pet peeves is seeing these guys who are, well, I guess
9:48
in general, anybody who starts to get kind of like too big for their britches and they've
9:52
sought out fame so that they can feel that superiority, right?
9:57
That I just, it's like a repellent for me.
10:00
And the other part of that is with the SEAL teams, you know, I don't think they could
10:05
have had a better ambassador than Chris because, and Marcus, you know, the trail, but Chris
10:10
is so, and he's a friend that I just, but talking about Chris is he's so, he's so humble
10:17
and he was genuinely humble and that is what a SEAL is supposed to be.
10:21
That's a humble operator.
10:23
It's the only time you see in American symbolism that the Eagles head is bowed and it's for
10:28
humility.
10:29
So that's a really big deal.
10:30
And we know tons of guys who are SEALs that, I mean, like Chris, they would live in neighborhoods
10:34
nobody would know they were ever a SEAL, right?
10:37
Right.
10:38
And so my, my issue is you have a couple of guys and I'm sure some of your listeners
10:42
know them and they just, they look like a caricature of what you would think and they,
10:49
they market it, they, you know, play it.
10:54
They try to act like, you know, I'll tell you how to be tough and, you know, all this
10:57
stuff.
10:58
It drives me insane because number one, they've lost respect of the people for the most part,
11:02
right, in the community of the SEALs.
11:04
And number two, it's a facade.
11:07
That's not, that's not even real, right?
11:09
And they're the guys who, you know, might want to go to a Naval Academy or West Point
11:14
just so they can say they had it and then they'll Brown knows every, you know, that's
11:17
just, that is like a small part of the SEAL teams and it's the worst part, right?
11:23
There are those people in every job and it's no different in the SEAL teams.
11:27
And then there's this great group of guys who are just the coolest dudes and you just
11:31
want to hang out with them because they're cool and then you find out what they do and
11:34
you go, whoa, shoot, you know what I mean, like crap, that's, that's the, that's intense.
11:38
So okay.
11:39
That, thank you for letting me get on my soapbox for a second because I loved that about Chris
11:43
and I think that's also why he was beloved and also why, you know, people were going
11:50
to write a book about him.
11:51
He didn't want a book about him, did not want it was adamant and, and other people started
11:56
to write books about him and so it was this point where if you don't do it the way you're
12:01
comfortable, they're going to do it.
12:04
And, and so he finally was like fine and he kind of half-assed a contract where somebody
12:09
totally screwed us on it and anyway, but he kept his word even though they were screwing
12:14
us over blah, blah, blah.
12:16
Bottom line is he didn't care because he was said, I'm giving away all the money for
12:19
the book and I'm going to make sure people know it's not, I'm not this, I didn't do this
12:23
for me and I didn't do this for money and then the first thing when we sat down to write
12:27
the book, Chris was like, look, I don't, one of the main reasons he didn't want people
12:32
writing a book about him is he's like, they're going to make me out to be some kind of hero
12:36
or legend and that's not the truth and they're going to leave out all these guys I served
12:40
with that deserve to be recognized.
12:42
And so, you know, that is, that's the essence.
12:45
He sat down and he said, here are my flaws, here was our problems, you know, and he didn't
12:51
tell anything that, I mean, of course he didn't say any top secret or confidential stuff.
12:56
He also didn't tell a whole lot of other things, you know, just because he didn't need to puff
13:01
his chest out or, you know, whatever.
13:03
And so, I think at the end of the day, that was one of the most beautiful things and one
13:09
of the things that made Chris Chris was he was just, he didn't want to be seen as anything
13:15
different than that and because of that, so many people have healed because they can
13:19
watch the movie and say that's my story, right?
13:23
And that's what it's supposed to be, it's their story too because we're all just people
13:27
trying to get through it, we're all just marriages trying to figure it out, we're all
13:30
just guys going to war to do their best and coming home and trying to figure that out
13:35
too.
13:36
And there've been stories where people tell me they were in the parking lot afterward.
13:42
Some of them found God in the parking lot afterwards because of the conversations that
13:46
wouldn't have happened if they glorified, you know, him as like some, you know, action
13:50
movie, whatever hero and some people that a lot actually, they've come to me and said
13:56
that was the first time my spouse ever started to open up was after they watched American
14:00
sniper and they felt like I can talk about it like, and so families are healing from
14:05
it too.
14:06
So again, I'm going to try not to keep talking about it, but I love that so much about Chris.
14:11
Well, just real quick before, I promise we'll talk about the foundation, but something that
14:15
you said triggered something for me was there were different points in the movie.
14:20
Like I just rewatched it again here recently and I'm like, man, they really kind of like
14:25
Chris who seemed like a very reserved guy, you know, in the populace, they kind of like
14:30
showed his very, very raw emotions, you know, that the scene with him in the bar where he
14:34
was stateside and he's talking to you on the phone or seeing a mirror from the movie.
14:39
And it was like, wait a minute, like that, that was so brutal and so gut wrenching, but
14:43
also so honest. And so that again is a thing that strikes me about y'all's story is just
14:48
the honesty.
14:49
And before I take us into another tangent, we do have some other ground to cover. I would
14:53
really love to hear about the foundation. And so you could give our guys a little bit of
14:57
a insight as to that.
14:58
Okay, I'll do it. And I'll make it quick so that we can get to some other good stuff.
15:02
So people can find it online, tanchristkilefoundation.org. And the bottom line, I guess, if for listeners,
15:10
I would say it all comes back to these marriages are different and the tools they need are
15:16
different. And 80% of service suicides are relationship related.
15:23
So when people say, hey, we need to work on the suicide thing, I'm like 80% of relationship
15:28
related, what we need to do is help them know how to handle their marriage in a service
15:33
life because it's different, less than 1% of the population serves. So they just need
15:37
the tools and they're strong, they'll fix it themselves. If you make the marriage strong,
15:42
then they can go out and find the help they need for PTS, right? They have hope. And suicides
15:48
of spouses and children of service members are on the rise. So what does that tell you?
15:52
It says something at home is really painful. And these are people who signed up to serve
15:56
and give their lives. So service comes naturally to them, but they just don't have the tools.
16:02
So that's, I can kind of sum it up that way and just let you know that my experience
16:06
is that if the marriage isn't strong and the spouse says to the service member, hey, something
16:13
seems off or you can do this or you need to do that, right? And the service member is
16:17
like, I'll never be good enough for you. I'm broken. Stop nagging me. But if the marriage
16:22
is good and you're like, hey, babe, something just seems like a little off, you know, I
16:28
have some ideas, but how are you? What do you think? Then they're like, this is my teammate
16:32
coming to help me. And they can be strong where I am hurting. And then they go forth
16:37
and conquer, right? But you have to be able to have the tools to keep that relationship
16:41
in the place of, hey, babe, can I help you? And they see it as she's really coming out.
16:47
So that that in essence is is what we do, why we do it. And our whole mission is to keep
16:52
those families together and just thrive instead of just hanging on by a thread.
16:56
Yeah, and it's an incredible mission. And guys, we're going to have the links to the
17:00
foundation and the show notes and the encouragement is because we know a lot of you guys listening
17:03
to this are active duty or a tired military. And there are resources out there. And so
17:08
Taya, I'm sure would would echo this. But this is a big deal. And it's not something
17:12
that you should let go by the wayside or deal with it tomorrow deal with it today. Go to
17:16
the website, check it out. There's a lot of resources there to kind of go back a little
17:20
bit. And I know it's it's a tough subject, but you've been very, very brave as you've
17:24
talked about it. But there's obviously the death of Chris, the untimely death of Chris,
17:28
where he was murdered by a troubled veteran that he was actually in the process of helping.
17:33
He was murdered alongside one of his friends. And that happened back in February of 2013.
17:39
You spent a lot of time talking about it. You spent a lot of time thinking about it. But
17:43
the thing that I'm struck by is how resilient you've been in the face of becoming a widow.
17:48
Even from the top of the podcast, I kind of got tongue tied calling you Chris, this former
17:52
wife and not widow. It's a weird thing, right? But I know it's hard to talk about. But could
17:57
you give us an idea of what that time in your life was like? And then now here we are, you
18:02
know, so many years later, and how you've been able to be resilient in the face of becoming
18:07
a widow.
18:08
Yeah, for sure. And you know, I have such compassion for that awkward part of addressing
18:11
a widow and I that it all it's all going to go back to what I'll tell you in just a second,
18:17
but God prepares us for stuff. And so I had enough exposure, sadly, to widows to know what
18:23
that feels like. And I have such compassion for people. So if somebody's coming to me
18:28
and they're tongue tied or they don't know what to say, I'm like, I get it, I hear your
18:32
heart. Thank you. Right. You can't say something wrong to me. And I feel so bad for people
18:37
who are trying to say something to somebody grieving and the grieving person gets mad
18:41
at them. Right. And I've heard it. I've heard widows be like, if one more person says,
18:44
I'm sorry, or how are you? And I'm like, God, they're just trying to love you. Like, can
18:48
you not just, you know, it's so anyway, I get that. And so that kind of brings me to my
18:55
next point, which is, you know, how did how did we survive that? And I look at it very
19:00
much from a faith perspective. And I see God is the most loving parent. And I do not believe
19:08
that he's the one that I don't think he actually dishes out the evil. I think, well, I can
19:13
get to that next. If you don't mind, I think it might help some listeners. But yeah, but
19:18
for this particular part of the story, I see God as his loving parent. And he looked at
19:24
me and he said, okay, my child is going to have an amputation. So as a parent, if my
19:29
child had to have an amputation, what would I do? I would not go to them and say, here's
19:33
everything you need to know, here's everything that's going to happen. And like dump it on
19:37
him, right? They would be, it would be awful. They would be too much. And so I would give
19:42
them little bits of information where I would expose them to people who had experienced
19:47
it. And I would show them people who are strong. And then I would tell them some things. I
19:51
would teach them some things. Then I would sit with them during the amputation as much
19:55
as you know, you're allowed. And then right after I'd be nurturing, help them get better.
20:00
And then I'd say, okay, baby, here we go. You are going to go out and you are going to
20:04
rock it. You're going to go, you know, live your life. You're going to be strong. You're
20:08
going to show people that that amputation didn't kill you, right? You have just as much
20:11
to offer as you ever did it and more. So I look at that and I think that's God. That's
20:16
what he did because I believe if I had lost Chris without any exposure to anything else,
20:25
it would have been different. And I had that from very early on, I started going to funerals
20:32
of our friends and Chris would be deployed and I would be the one going or I'd take my
20:36
kids to go and it was just brutal to watch them go through it. But it also started getting
20:45
me thinking, okay, how am I going to do this, right? How am I going to walk this life and
20:49
not live in total fear? And how do these women do it? And it was like, man, the sun
20:55
just keeps coming up and it keeps going down and they're surviving. I don't know how but
20:59
they are. And Chris and I got to talk about life not being fair, right? How come one person
21:05
is walking out of the battlefield for the first time and they're getting killed? And then somebody
21:10
else like Chris is running down alleyways with bullets flying by their head, gets pinged
21:13
in the helmet, is breaking down doors, right? And so with that, I got to see how life is
21:20
unfair and how there is no rhyme or reason. So I believe that God prepared me in ways,
21:27
even from being an early child, you know, when my cousin was killed when she was three
21:31
years old and the most awful way, and there was nothing anybody could have done to change
21:35
it. And I was about eight or nine at the time. I watched my aunt survive that. And I think,
21:40
you know, what what evil means to destroy God can use for good. So even the death of a child,
21:47
he could bring good through that in a way that not just for me, right, my aunt and my
21:52
cousins and we would all trade it and have my cousin alive. And God still was able to
21:59
bring a lot of blessings through even what I would consider were the worst things in life.
22:05
And so, so that's one of the things. The other thing is when my kids knew evil existed,
22:14
so we were open enough with them when our friends would die, you know, they were very
22:18
young, but they would say, you know, mom, what's wrong? And I'd say, listen, we need
22:21
to pray for their families. They're in heaven now, but their family is here and they're
22:25
going to miss them for a while until they see them again. Let's pray for them. And so
22:30
they they understood enough about God, eternal life, evil, good things that don't make sense.
22:40
So when it happened to us, it wasn't out of the realm of possibility, even though, you
22:46
know, Chris died state side and and and by the way, the guy who murdered Chris and Chad,
22:51
he did not according to prosecution and defense. He did not have PTSD. He never had
22:55
a traumatic event in his life. He just, he chose something evil and he made some bad
23:00
choices in his life and he got away with it by claiming PTS. And so, you know, that's
23:05
another story, but it's important to me that people know that because PTS doesn't make
23:10
somebody a murderer, right? And so, so on the one hand, I see how God prepared us the
23:16
other hand, as I started to go out and do speaking engagements and meet people across
23:20
the country and the kids, you know, traveled with me, but I met some of these pastors who
23:25
were scholars and had studied stuff. And I said, listen, when I was little, I didn't
23:29
believe there was a devil. I knew there was God, I could feel him and I lived a really
23:33
good life. And so, I knew there was God. I just thought maybe God had things happen
23:38
like my cousin dying for reasons we didn't understand, but maybe we were just supposed
23:42
to learn from it. And then I saw evil with the stories of Chris and the guys being overseas
23:48
and the savage behavior. And the first responders who would tell us, you know, domestic violence
23:54
and abuse against kids that are so evil, I couldn't even have imagined being that cruel
23:59
to somebody, right? And so, I started to go, so evil exists. And this is what they, this
24:05
is what the scholars all kind of educated me at different times. And I came up with this
24:11
sort of layman's vision that's helped me. And so, I hope it'll help some of your listeners.
24:15
I see, you know, God and Satan and, you know, here's this beautiful angel and he challenges
24:22
God and says, like, you're not all that. I could do this. And God's like, well, you
24:26
know, you're making a choice and he makes the choice to leave and take some angels with
24:29
him and challenge God. And so, I believe that God created the earth and he put his beloved
24:34
souls here and said, okay, Satan, go your hardest. I'll give you this realm. And I will
24:40
show you that without seeing me and knowing me, they will still, the majority will still
24:43
choose good. They will still want good. They will still seek me out and they'll find me.
24:47
Like evil isn't going to win. And so, I then started to see this world as a chess game.
24:54
And my son likes to play chess and he said, mom, that's perfect because chess is a game
24:58
of sacrifice and gain. And so, something happens on the chess board. You know, my cousin dies
25:03
or Chris gets killed or a number of other things that we've all experienced that are
25:06
horrible. And we think, you know, Satan just made a move on the chess board and was like,
25:11
okay. And we all just go, oh my God, this is it, right? But God is the master chess player
25:18
and he's playing so many steps in advance that sometimes we have to wait, right? Like
25:22
you wait in chess sometimes for another move to happen on the board. But eventually, God
25:27
is always there with checkmate, right? So, that's how I see it. And eternal life is one
25:34
of the checkmates. I know I get to see Chris again. I have no doubt. And so, anyway, I
25:40
if that helps answer the question, how did we do it? It's a lot of those things. I think
25:43
God prepared me ahead of time. I think I also have learned a lot about this chess game of
25:48
life. And so, their murders set off a ripple effect of evil. That was the first massive
25:55
evil that hit. And then there were just a flood of them that have happened over the
25:59
last seven years. And another day in another podcast and maybe when the time is right,
26:07
I can share more of that. But things that would, I would have never believed could have happened
26:12
have still happened to us. And yet, I'm okay because God is good. And I know checkmate's
26:18
coming. And I've become more fearless every time I survive something awful. And so, now
26:24
I'm like, wow, I actually understand for the first time in my life that verse in the Bible
26:29
that says that we're supposed to treat trials and tribulations with joy. Because they really
26:33
do. Once you get through them, you're stronger. It's just getting through them sucks, right?
26:37
It's hard.
26:38
Right. Well, Taya, I just got to be honest with you. I feel like we have earned a second
26:44
podcast down the road because I feel like we don't want to give short shrift to some
26:48
of those things. And I think in our time allotted today, well, we'll do what we can to pack
26:52
in the content. But I really think that we should get together to have that further discussion
26:57
because as you were talking, you were talking about God preparing you. And a lot of times
27:01
when you're being prepared for something, you don't know what that something eventually
27:04
is going to be. You know, I talked to a counselor recently about, and I talked on this podcast
27:09
about suicide. And a lot of people, if they don't kill themselves, they don't know what
27:14
the strength they're garnering during the trouble is going to be used for later. And so one thing
27:19
that you mentioned, Chris is killer. That's Eddie Ray Ralph. He was convicted on two counts
27:24
of first degree murder for killing Chris and his buddy Chad. And he's currently serving,
27:27
you know, a life sentence with without the option of parole, even though his punishment
27:32
probably should have been more severe than that. But this is kind of a short and admittedly
27:36
pointed question, but it kind of goes to the whole idea of God preparing you for something
27:40
you never thought you had to deal with. Have you forgiven Eddie for what he's done to your
27:44
husband?
27:45
It's such a good question. It's a really powerful one. And yeah, I'd love to come back by the
27:50
way for another one. Like I said, you guys are all my people. So the, so with the ripple
27:57
effect of evil, there are a lot of things I sat in the back of the church one time with,
28:01
you know, tears running down my face because it was a small church. Like I said, band of
28:04
misfits kind of church. And I liked it because the pastor would talk to us. And, and he came
28:09
back and I said, you were talking about pouring it out on the altar of God. And there are some
28:12
of these people that have chosen now when I'm gutted and bleeding out on the sidewalk.
28:18
That's the visual I have of how my emotions feel. And they're kicking me, right? Like
28:22
they're just, they're coming for, for more blood as if I'm not already bleeding out.
28:26
And I, I don't know how to forgive that. And I wasn't even in the realm of forgiving the
28:31
murderer. Like I wasn't even on my radar. And he said, well, Taya, so one of the things
28:38
that Christians make a mistake of often is that they think forgiveness means you let that
28:42
person back into your life. And so if you look at God in the Israelites and they had to
28:47
wander for 40 years and they come by and they say, you know, God, we're so sorry, we, we
28:51
forgive us. And he says, my child, I forgave you the moment you did it. But that doesn't
28:55
mean you get to go back to the place I had for you. Right? Meaning even God can say,
28:59
I forgive you, but they're, they're, they're still boundaries because of your decisions.
29:04
And so, and Proverb says, guard your heart for everything you do flows from it. And so
29:08
what I've had to learn is I can forgive someone who is absolutely hateful, inspired other people
29:15
to kill me, like, you know, lots of things. People that know better than have just changed
29:19
our story completely, you know, for hateful things. It's, and I was able to look at it
29:25
finally and go, I forgive them because they're human and they're broken. And they have no
29:32
idea how to handle their pain in a healthy way. And so they're choosing hate and they're
29:37
choosing evil. And I can forgive them for being broken because I'm broken too. And I can forgive
29:43
them because I can say they, they maybe they didn't have the same kind of, you know, upbringing
29:46
or opportunity or exposure that I had all of that. But that doesn't mean they get to come
29:51
into my life and keep abusing me. And so with that, then at some point I had to look at the
29:58
murderer and it took years and years and I was talking to my kids about it too. And I thought,
30:01
can I forgive him for being human? Yeah, I can look at him and say, you're another person in
30:08
this world that's just broken and I don't know your whole story. I don't really want to know it.
30:11
Right? Like I know he was in trouble in high school. I know from what I've heard anyways that his
30:15
mom used to smoke weed with him in high school in the back, you know, that's what I've heard.
30:19
And I think well, you're, there was a series of events and there were so many times for someone
30:24
to have stepped in. Even even the week before he killed Chris and Chad, he was, he was at the
30:28
police station because he held his girlfriend by the samurai sword. And you know, I mean,
30:33
and she didn't prosecute, meaning there were all these points that the trajectory could have changed
30:39
and it didn't. And so can I forgive him for being pursued by evil or choosing evil once? And then,
30:44
and then, you know, once evil gets a hold, like I picture the devil as like these long,
30:49
spindly, smoky hands kind of. And I picture it as like, if he gets his hand in the crack of the
30:54
door, if you let him have that, then he'll get his arm, his shoulder. And before you know it,
30:59
you can't close the door, right? Because you're just, he's in. I mean, you can eventually, but you
31:03
have to be, you have to work at it and want it. And so I feel like that's kind of where I go.
31:09
I can forgive that guy for being broken. And I never want to talk to him. I never want to look
31:15
at him. I don't need to tell him I couldn't care unless he doesn't exist in my mind. I wouldn't be
31:21
able to. Well, I don't know that I wouldn't be able to. I don't want anything to do with him. I don't
31:26
want to know how he's doing. I want him to rot in prison, right? Like that's, and I think those two
31:31
things can coincide. I wouldn't be disappointed to hear that he was brutalized by other prisoners.
31:39
You know what I'm saying? I'm not advocating that. I'm just saying it wouldn't hurt me.
31:42
And yet at the same time, I can say, you know, he's a broken guy. He made choices. He's suffering.
31:48
People, people brutalized him. I can't change that. Those were his decisions.
31:51
And still want him to stay there. Also, when you said, you said something about you thought his
31:58
punishment should have been worse. It's so interesting because they asked Chad's wife,
32:04
Leanne, and I both, if we wanted the death penalty. And they explained that sometimes it's harder to
32:09
get a conviction for that and all these things. And there was this moment, and there were these
32:15
surreal moments in intense trauma where I feel like, I don't know, there's something that the
32:20
Holy Spirit's doing something different in you in those moments. And I sat there and I thought,
32:24
you know, as a Christian, I'm supposed to want him to have a chance of redemption with God,
32:31
right? I don't know if he finds God in prison or not. That's not my problem. That's to God,
32:35
I believe God will keep pursuing him. I don't know that death is any easier because if he's
32:41
already a Christian or believing, then he goes to paradise. I'm not saying God doesn't have punishment,
32:46
right? I'm sure he does. I don't know what he does. I also know we're forgiven. And I don't
32:50
have clear answers on that. So if he believes in Christ and goes to heaven, that doesn't
32:55
sound like much punishment. I mean, you know, aside from, I don't know what God has in store for us,
33:00
but I believe we're forgiven. So I haven't quite wrestled that one out. And so I thought, well,
33:05
good, then hell on earth in a maximum security prison where nobody's getting out. None of those
33:11
prisoners are getting out. So none of them have an incentive for good behavior. That sounds pretty
33:15
good to me. Well, I just got to say, I really appreciate your honesty and candor because,
33:20
like I told you, off air before the podcast, I mean, we have a pretty rough around the edges
33:24
crowd that listens to this podcast. And, you know, it would have been really easy to give kind of the
33:29
canned answer, the TBN or K love answer. But that's not really what you did. Well, say, again, I really
33:36
appreciate you being so honest about all of your different answers. And we will definitely figure
33:41
out a way because your staff has been great to work with. We'll figure out a time to get you on so
33:45
we can do a part two of this. And we'll get into, you know, your books and you've got some jewelry
33:49
lines or launching, but we'll certainly get deeper into the stuff today. But to the stuff that we
33:53
talked about today, rather, but without any of that other content, you know, that's all for me for
33:58
today. Is there anything else you want to get off your chest before we let you go? No, you're
34:02
awesome. But I just, to all the service members who are listening, thank you for your service and
34:06
to their family members and people who support them. Just, like I said, these, this audience of
34:10
yours are people I love to be with. So even though I didn't get the feedback, I'm honored to be with
34:14
you. Take Kyle. Thanks for coming on a Daunted Life of Man's podcast. Thank you.
34:23
There you go, guys. I hope you enjoyed part one of my talk with Taya Kyle. And guys,
34:27
if you enjoyed part one, next week's episode is going to blow your mind because it's about twice
34:32
as long as this episode is, we get a lot deeper into a lot of different subjects. But then we do
34:35
talk about our books. We talk about the jewelry line. We talk about some other things. But man,
34:39
there were just some great nuggets in that podcast. And I was just sitting there for a lot of the
34:43
interview kind of slack jawed at how open and honest she was being because when you go into an
34:48
interview with someone like that, you know, a gold star wife, a widow of a military hero,
34:53
you expect to hear certain things in a certain way. And Taya just doesn't do that. Taya is Taya.
34:59
She's going to give it to you straight and she's going to give it to you in her own way. And so I
35:02
really, really appreciated that. All right, guys, before we let you go, we are going to do a quick
35:05
resilience boost. As you know, by now we are a men's ministry and our mission is cultivating
35:10
manly resilience. And specifically, we do that by providing you content like this podcast that
35:14
helps you forge spiritual, mental and physical toughness. So the resources I have for you today,
35:18
the first is Taya Kyle's website. So you can find a lot of the information about her there.
35:22
Also, I've got the links to Taya and Chris Kyle's books, also the Taya and Chris Kyle Foundation.
35:27
And then the warrior collections jewelry line, which we'll talk more about next week. All right,
35:31
guys, thanks so much for listening to the podcast. We really do appreciate it. If you would, please
35:35
subscribe on Apple podcast, iTunes, Spotify, Google podcast or Stitcher and refer your friends to
35:39
listen and share this on social media. Guys, if we deserve a five star review, please leave us five
35:44
stars in a few sentences, letting us know why you like the content. I'm currently booking speaking
35:47
engagements for the remainder of 2021. So if you want to come speak on your podcast at your
35:51
men's event at your church at your business, just hit me up info at undaunted.life. That's I N F O
35:56
at undaunted.life. The website is www dot undaunted.life. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter
36:02
at undaunted life or Facebook.com backslash undaunted life. Check out our free devotionals on the
36:07
U version Bible app. Just search undaunted life under plans. And as always, we want to thank the
36:12
band August Burns bread for allowing us to use their entire music library for our content. The
36:16
entire outro track on this podcast is our song defender, which is off their latest record entitled
36:20
guardians. The links are in the description. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep cultivating
36:27
mainly resilience, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical toughness. Keep seeking the lion of
36:33
Judah. We need to defend our voices. Take care of the great. We need to defend our. Open and break.
36:50
Back. You.