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1:16
This is Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
1:21
Our guys today, we've got a special guest. This is the first time we've had multiple guests on
1:25
the same show. So I'm going to welcome Daryl Harrison and Virgil Walker. Those are the hosts of the
1:30
Just Thinking Podcast. And today, we are going to go deep on the race issue. These guys have done a
1:35
lot of thinking, a lot of speaking, writing, and just talking about the issue of race in America,
1:40
but especially within the church. But just to give you a little idea of what the Just Thinking
1:44
Podcast is, it is considered a Christ-centered gospel-focused and theologically challenging
1:49
program that boldly and unapologetically addresses social, political, and cultural issues from a
1:54
biblical worldview. So that's the description from their website. Let me give you a little
1:58
better idea of who Daryl and Virgil are. So Daryl is the Dean of Social Media at Grace to You,
2:03
which is the Bible Teaching Ministry of John MacArthur. All of you would know John MacArthur
2:07
by now. He has a blog called Just Thinking for Myself. He is also a fellow of the Black Theology
2:12
and Leadership Institute at Princeton Theological Seminary in Princeton, New Jersey. And he's a
2:16
graduate of the Theology and Ministry program at PTS. Now Virgil Walker, he is the discipleship
2:22
pastor at Westside Church in Omaha, Nebraska. And then he also is attending Midwestern Baptist
2:28
Theological Seminary where he is working to complete his MDiv, his Master of Divinity. But I got to
2:33
tell you, I really looked forward to this episode because these guys have a very unique perspective,
2:39
and they come at it from a very unique way. You hear a lot of people that jump into the race
2:44
issue or the race inside the church issue or the critical race theory issue or postmodernism
2:48
or whatever. And you can tell they haven't really done their homework. You just can't listen to
2:52
either one of these guys talk about the topic of race or postmodernism or Marxism or anything
2:57
like that and think to yourself, yeah, these guys just really haven't done their research.
3:01
These guys are incredibly smart. They're incredibly well thought out in terms of their
3:05
argumentation. You've really got to check out their podcast, especially the podcast that they've
3:09
done on the issue of race. But guys on this podcast, we go into Black Lives Matter,
3:14
we talk about, you know, the stuff that Matt Chandler has even been saying recently and how
3:18
critical race theory seems to be sneaking into a lot of sermon content, not just for Matt Chandler,
3:22
but people all over the place. And then we go into some other topics that I think will certainly
3:26
be of interest to you all. So guys, without further ado, let's get into it.
3:32
Darryl Harrison and Virgil Walker, welcome to Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast.
3:36
Hey, thanks so much for having us. Hey, Kyle, thanks for having us, man.
3:39
Absolutely. And I just got to tell you guys right from the top, we are not known for easing
3:44
into interviews here at Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast. And I know you guys aren't very cheapest.
3:48
So we're just going to get right into the content for today. And the first question that I have for
3:53
you is, is Black Lives Matter the organization, Satanic?
3:59
Yeah, I'll jump in that. You know, I'm real careful about categories and titles.
4:06
I want to be very specific. I do recognize the ideology that fuels an organization like Black
4:14
Lives Matter. It's Marxian, right? Their political ideology is communist and it's end result.
4:23
And as a result, from a standpoint of theology, it's anti God, it's anti Bible, it's anti Christian.
4:30
So if all of those categories land you in a Satanic arena, more power to you, I think more
4:37
times are not when you start there and don't explain how we got there or how we get there,
4:42
you lose people along the way. And so rather than leap to, hey, this is a Satanic organization,
4:47
I'd much rather walk you through the ideological framework, the political framework, the
4:53
economic framework. And even even there, even their theological footprint, which again is
5:00
anti God, anti Bible, anti Christian. And so you can definitely say, this is anti Christ. And then,
5:05
and then from there, you could say, you know what, this, this opposes God. This is, this is everything
5:10
that the enemy would try to do to destroy culture and to, and to make sure that we don't hold near
5:18
and dear to a, that we don't hold near and dear to a biblical Judeo Christian worldview. And so
5:27
absolutely, I would, I would land in those spaces. Yeah, Kyle, I want to just add real quickly to
5:33
what Virgil said, Virgil mentioned something that's very, very important as it relates to
5:36
Black Lives Matter, that you have to walk through the ideology, right, you have to walk through and
5:42
gain an understanding of who this organization is. And for that reason that Virgil and I are
5:49
adjusting a podcast, we spent over six hours, two episodes sort of walking you through number one,
5:57
how the organization of Black Lives Matter is structured. That's what we did in the first
6:01
episode, in the second episode, we followed that up with, what are the spiritual elements? What are
6:07
the spiritual layers? What are the spiritual tenants that drive this organization, especially as it
6:13
relates to its leaders? So I appreciate what Virgil said in that you can't just make a blanket statement
6:18
and say Black Lives Matter is satanic or demonic without deconstructing it and then building it back
6:25
up. And as a once you build the organization back up, when you hold the elements of Black Lives Matter
6:32
up against what scripture teaches, I think you'll come to the objective conclusion that it is
6:38
an organization that is driven by unchristian, unbiblical elements, worldviews, ideologies,
6:47
philosophies. It is deeply steeped in Marxism. They have that organization rather has as one of its
6:56
core objectives to completely destroy Western capitalism and then replace it with Marxism,
7:04
sort of a so communist society and structure. So for anyone who wants a more holistic example,
7:17
what Black Lives Matter stands for and what drives them and motivates them and influences them,
7:22
as they go out to our podcast to listen to episodes 102 and 103. That's over six hours of content on
7:28
Black Lives Matter. Yeah, and I would absolutely encourage our listeners to do that. And specifically,
7:33
these next couple of questions I have for you guys is from the episode The Church of BLM.
7:38
I thought that there were a lot of tremendous arguments made in that podcast in particular
7:43
and a lot of just overall benefit in terms of the types of content you went into to give us a
7:48
better understanding. But Virgil specifically, you made a point on that podcast where you said,
7:53
The Gospel of Black Lives Matter is a workspace salvation that never truly saves the sinner.
7:58
And that is why I believe The Church of Black Lives Matter must be rejected. So I wanted to give
8:03
you kind of a little bit of time to kind of tease that out a little bit further. And then Daryl,
8:07
I got a question for you right after that from the same episode. But for Virgil, what did you mean
8:11
when you said that? Great question. And I appreciate it. I appreciate it when folks who interview us
8:18
have actually taken the time to go through our content and material and mine it for what we've
8:24
put into it because Daryl and I both spent a tremendous amount of time going to original
8:29
resources, identifying what not not what we think based upon an editorial review,
8:36
but based upon what Black Lives Matter themselves say about themselves. So with regard to that
8:41
particular comment, what I was basing that on is what what organizations like Black Lives Matter,
8:48
Black Lives Matter in particular, and other organizations who are sensitive to their worldview,
8:52
what they what they want you to do in order to fix what they see as injustice and the way they
8:59
term it is racial injustice. What they want you to do is to be engaged in what's called anti-racist
9:05
works. And those anti-racist works are always aimed at one particular group of people, whites
9:13
in particular, people who are determined to not have color, right? Those who are people of color
9:22
are the beneficiaries of the work that whites will do in an effort to atone for the sin of racism
9:31
historically in the United States of America. And so now there there you have you have proponents
9:35
who are going to point to things around the world that have happened as a result, but what they'll
9:39
start what they'll do is they'll stop short of and and Daryl has done a great job of explaining
9:43
this. They'll stop short of looking at what's taken place in the transatlantic slave trade,
9:50
where blacks were the ones who identified and captured other blacks in an effort to sell them
9:57
to whites for the slavery that took place in the United States. And so their vision of
10:02
sin is very shortsighted. It's only aimed at a period in time historically speaking where whites
10:09
were the perpetrators, where blacks were subjugated. And so the works that you need to be involved in,
10:15
whether you committed the sin or not, requires you to be engaged in it for your life. And it never
10:22
truly satiates the woke. It never truly atones for the sins of the historic past. You will need to
10:29
do these works for the rest of your life. And they will and they will never abdicate you of any
10:36
responsibility that the in the in the court system of BLM. When they adjudicate the issue
10:45
of racism, you're never able to pay a penalty or a price high enough for you to be free of any debt
10:51
related to your sin. And so that's kind of how that begins to be teased out. Well,
10:55
that's what I've talked about on I did a whole series called race in America. And I talked about
10:59
you can never bow low enough. You can never apologize loud enough for for the mob. And in this case,
11:05
that's kind of the mob that I was discussing. But in that same episode, Daryl, and I swear we
11:09
could spend the rest of our time talking just about the points you made on this particular topic.
11:14
But you talked about how in order to have a church, right? So you established the church of BLM,
11:18
but in order to have one, you have to have a theology, a soteriology, and an eschatology. And so
11:24
you claim that BLM has all three of these that their theology is racism, their soteriology is
11:29
Marxism and that their eschatology is socialism. And so if you could just first briefly define
11:34
theology, soteriology, and eschatology, just to make sure that we're all on the same page.
11:39
And then can you give us a better idea as to why you think BLM has those three things?
11:44
Yeah, be glad to call. So in layman's terms, theology is a study of God, right? So so
11:48
Theos is the Greek word for God. Ology is the Greek word for word. So so theology is a study of God
11:55
in his word. Soteriology, again, is another Greek term that comes from the Greek word,
12:01
soterio, which is the word salvation in the Greek. So soteriology is the study of the
12:08
doctrine of salvation. Okay, so theology is the study of the doctrine of God. Soteriology is the
12:13
study of the doctrine of salvation. And eschatology is another Greek word comes from the root word
12:18
eschaton, which means in times. So eschatology is a study of the in times or what the word of God
12:25
says about the in times. So as those three elements relate to Black Lives Matter, as I said in that
12:30
episode, the church of BLM, Black Lives Matter has all three of those. They have a theology,
12:37
meaning they have a book, they have a belief system, they have a worldview, they have an ideology that
12:41
is motivating them, that is driving them. They also have a soteriology. So they have an ultimate goal.
12:48
So they an ultimate objective and goal in terms of where that worldview and that ideology that
12:56
theology is going to take them. So ultimately, when they get there, when if and when they were able to
13:01
are able to reach this sort of Marxian societal Nirvana, that they're that they strive to take
13:09
America towards, then that is salvation for them. They have they have to eat salvation. They have
13:14
achieved their ultimate goal. And then eschatology, again, is is is is is where that theology and
13:21
salvation ultimately takes you. So in the end, okay, in the end, they want that sort of Marxian
13:28
worldview to dominate within a milk American culture. They want to so deconstruct the traditional
13:35
Judeo Christian work ethic capitalism. They want to especially in terms of the topic we're talking
13:43
about here today, from an ethnic standpoint, they want to relegate white people to such a low level
13:51
that they become that that minorities, if you will, become the oppressor. Now they won't describe
14:00
themselves in that term, but that's exactly what ends up happening in their eschatology that the
14:05
the ones who were oppressed now become the oppressors. And the those who were once the oppressors
14:13
now become the oppressed. So that's episode by saying that Black Lives Matter has all three
14:20
of those elements that every church essentially has. They have a theology, a social theology,
14:25
and an eschatology. Hey, Kyle, let me let me add let me add something to what Darryl just said,
14:30
just, I mean, brilliantly so and summed it up. I mean, that's the that would be the sound bite
14:36
I'd take away from this, especially for those who are trying to understand the religion of BLM.
14:40
But what I would add is that what they're selling from a standpoint of their eschatology, from a
14:45
standpoint of their end result, their end day, those of us who are believers look forward to Christ's
14:51
return and life in the eschaton, life in the in the hereafter when there's a new heaven and a new
14:57
earth. What those who are part of the church of BLM are selling is they're selling utopia.
15:02
They're selling utopia. They're there and falsely so, because at the end of the day,
15:08
they actually know that where they're going does not land in any place that that functions
15:17
like a new heaven and a new earth. But they're selling the idea that if you just listen to what
15:22
they say, if you just follow their their ideological positions, their worldview, that this would all
15:28
be a better place where we could all live better, happier lives. And at the end of the day, the idea
15:34
of utopia is a place that's nowhere. You know, utopia actually literally means no place, nowhere.
15:41
And so they're selling that idea to their adherence to their followers who jump on board
15:47
their, you know, their worldview when actually it's a place that that doesn't exist.
15:52
Well, and even beyond that, that brings to mind the Thomas old book, The Quest for Cosmic
15:56
Justice. If you can't have justice on this planet, you have to make up justice somewhere. And it's
16:01
in the same place where utopia is parked. And so where I feel like all this comes through, and
16:06
guys, we gave short shrift, you did a great job, Darryl and Virgil, of kind of summing up those
16:10
points, you've got to listen to the episodes. If you really want to go into it and get into the
16:15
really peeling back all the layers of the onion, you've got to go back and listen to those episodes
16:18
that we've talked about. But in order to move us along, you've got an episode coming up that has,
16:22
as of the recording of this podcast has not been released yet in its own critical race theory.
16:26
And I'm assuming that you're going to be talking about how CRT, which is what it's
16:31
shortened to, is kind of working its way into the modern day church. Even one of my favorite
16:36
pastors to watch recently, and that's Matt Chandler from the village church down in Dallas,
16:40
he just gave a sermon a few weeks ago, where it had a lot of elements of critical race theory
16:46
and Marxism. But then he protected himself by basically saying, if you're in his congregation,
16:51
and you threaten him that he's a Marxist, that you're being satanic, that Satan working through
16:57
you. But I'm seeing that in a lot of pockets, and especially with guys that I thought were maybe
17:01
impenetrable to things like that. So from y'all's perspective, wired churches being so easily sucked
17:07
into embracing either the Black Lives Matter hashtag or moniker, and overall just critical
17:13
race theory in general. Yeah, Kyle, that's a great question. Let me just give a teaser out there,
17:18
if I may, about the critical race theory episode that we're going to have on the Just Thinking
17:23
podcast. It's going to release this month. Now that much, I can tell you, it is going to release
17:27
in February. We don't have a specific release date yet. However, with respect to that episode,
17:34
I'm going to walk through, as we do on every episode, I'm going to walk through, first of all,
17:39
a definition of CRT, and I'm going to also take the listeners through an exposition of how Marxism
17:46
has influenced CRT. So for someone like a Matt Chandler to say, just sort of arbitrarily like
17:52
that, or subjectively, that if anyone comes to him and accuses him of binding to a Marxist worldview,
17:59
that that's Satanic. Well, I'm sorry, Matt, but it is Satanic. It is Satanic. It is Marxist.
18:05
CRT, when you look at a lot of its current day proponents, as well as if you go back over the
18:12
history of where CRT originated over in Europe, and the Frankfurt School over in Frankfurt, Germany,
18:20
what you will find is that critical theory, number one, the overall umbrella, larger umbrella,
18:26
from which critical race theory is born. Critical theory was an idea, a philosophy that was generated
18:33
and originated by proponents of advocates and students and peers of Karl Marx. This is an
18:42
objective fact, Matt Chandler. So when you go from the 1930s in the Frankfurt School up to 2010,
18:50
now one in 80 years later, and you look objectively at the history and the roots of critical race
18:58
theory, I'm sorry, Matt Chandler, you're wrong. Critical theory is rooted in Marxism. Critical
19:05
race theory is rooted in the materialism that was integral to Marxism, and there is no way
19:12
historically that you can dissect the origins, the genesis of critical theory, and not come to
19:18
that conclusion. So in the episode that we're going to release, we're going to walk and expose it,
19:24
the roots of CRT, the genesis of it, and bring you all the way from the 1930s in the Frankfurt
19:29
School all the way up to now, and talk about why churches are so gullible in embracing that
19:37
Satanic worldview. Let me jump in here and say a couple of things with respect, and to specifically
19:45
what Matt Chandler tried to do, I heard a little bit of that sermon, and folks have been sending
19:50
excerpts of what he shared in that space. What he and others like him are appealing to,
19:56
especially when they promote ideas like CRT, which is a lens by which to view
20:01
all of society, all of culture, it has the presupposition that every interaction
20:08
is an interaction with power structures, one of one who's in the position of the oppressor,
20:14
and one who's in the position of the oppressed. It sees everything through the lens of race,
20:20
and especially in our culture, because of the power dynamics associated historically speaking
20:26
with race in the country. What Matt Chandler is appealing to when he tells you not to say
20:33
anything against him, he's appealing to what I call this idea of ethnic anti-nomianism,
20:43
the idea that the laws don't apply because I'm using something that benefits a certain ethnic
20:49
group. If I'm examining the world through the lens of something positive or affirming
20:57
for people of color, then no one has the right by which to examine it or critique it. In other
21:04
words, there's no critique for critical race theory. Critical race theory can critique everything
21:11
else, but no one has the right or ability to question CRT. The appeal there is to what I call
21:20
CRT light. Because I heard in that same sermon, his appeal was, "Hey, we hold the Bible high,
21:27
we hold the Bible high." But in addition to that, we want to examine other sources, other resources,
21:32
other perspectives, other ideas, other points of view. Rather than having proper biblical
21:38
hermeneutics, we appeal to an ethnic hermeneutic. A hermeneutic that's ethnically motivated, that
21:45
that has the lens of someone's historic past, their experiences. What we used to call that is
21:53
isegesis. Now we call it an ethnic hermeneutic. For some odd reason, we believe that that's to be
21:59
more palatable to people. Can I come in here and just go ahead, Daryl?
22:04
Yeah. Just to build on what Virgil was talking about, the susceptibility of the church, I think
22:11
it's due in part because of the fact that the church, and when I say the church, I mean professing
22:15
Christians, what they've done is they've confused the gospel with moralism. They think that it was
22:22
moralism, so they buy into this sort of social gospel worldview, which includes CRT, and they've
22:27
bought into the lie that CRT pedals that everything should be equal, that materialism, especially
22:34
materialistically speaking, that the gospel really is geared and designed to create and sort of
22:43
form this sort of rabbit out of a hat kind of world where everything is equal. But when you
22:50
look at CRT and the social gospel in general, what you find is that you cannot, you cannot
22:57
drive towards equality without being partial. It's impossible. CRT demands that you go into it
23:05
with a built-in prejudice, a built-in bias, a built-in sinful bias, and prejudice, I will say,
23:12
against certain groups. So, what CRT does, it takes everyone who's created in the Amago
23:19
Day, it takes Genesis 1.27, bastardizes it, and then breaks you down into groups, and then subgroups
23:27
of those groups, and then subgroups of those other groups, that they pit these groups against one
23:33
another so that if you're in a group that has something, Kyle, and then I'm in a group that doesn't
23:39
have something, well, Kyle, you're racist. You need to give up what you have. You need to give up
23:46
the advantages that you have in your group and give them to me simply because I don't have what
23:52
you have. And then the presupposition, as Virgil said, the presupposition, just to build on that,
23:57
is that the reason you have what you have, Kyle, is because I, you took advantage of me. That's
24:03
what they call zero sum. So, you have it on the, the only reason you have what you have
24:10
is because you took it from me, you see. So, what we have to do as Christians, we have to be
24:17
more discerning than this than to fall naively for this sort of warped version of equality,
24:26
justice, equity that CRT advocates are trying to pass forth and what people like Matt Chandler
24:33
are buying into and preaching from his pulpit because that's not the gospel. And I think people
24:38
are going to find out when they listen to this episode that we're going to be doing on critical
24:42
race theory, they're going to find exactly why I say that. Right. And guys, just, just so, because
24:47
I know some of you might be a little sensitive to this, we are not just picking on Matt Chandler.
24:51
These guys didn't even know I was going to ask about Matt Chandler. And we've invited Matt
24:54
Chandler to come on this podcast to talk about a myriad of things. But obviously, this would be
24:58
an area I would push him on as well because he's kind of been going down the Eric Mason woke
25:02
church road for a while now. And, you know, it's, it would be interesting to hear him in a
25:07
less sermonized manner, kind of give his reasons for that. But some things that you all brought up
25:11
in, and we don't have enough time to go into all that. But, you know, that's the difference
25:14
between equity and equality. You're hearing a lot of things out of the Joe Biden administration.
25:19
Now they're not talking about equality. They're talking about equity. Equality is, you know,
25:22
equality of opportunity equity is a quality of outcome. And you just can't have that in a post
25:27
modern worldview that's been steeped in this critical race theory stuff. But to kind of get
25:33
even more maybe so into the political side of things to get your perspective, most of the stats
25:38
that you find about black folks in the US state that around 80% or so of them identify as Christian.
25:43
But interestingly enough to an observer like me, most stats also show that around 90% of black
25:49
folks in the US also identify as Democrat. And I'm obviously not going to be the guy to sit here
25:54
and say that it's impossible for someone to be a Democrat and a Christ centered, you know, gospel
26:00
centered Christian. But the thing that's that I want to kind of get your perspective on is how
26:05
can so many black folks consider themselves to be Christians while supporting a political party in
26:09
the United States whose platform seemed to be antithetical to the gospel and godly morality,
26:15
you know, especially on the issue of something like abortion. Yeah, let me jump in here. I'll
26:20
say a couple of things with regard to that. And I'll leap off of this page based upon something
26:26
that that Darrell has said on numerous occasions, which is we have no understanding of a what the
26:33
gospel is. And as a result, we have very little understanding of what it actually means to be
26:39
Christian. Any basic worldview test that you find Ligonier does a fantastic job every year of
26:46
of examining, you know, biblical worldview, those of us who claim to be Christian,
26:50
what does it look like for do we have the basic basic understanding of what Christianity is to
26:55
pass a worldview test and more times than not, we absolutely don't. So I think I think the question
27:00
begins to start there. I want to go back to something you mentioned with regard to equity and equality
27:05
before before I handed it to Darrell and simply say that that what they're now beginning to do
27:11
with regard to language is there that they recognize that those of us who have who study this,
27:17
we see we see the difference between equity and equality. We recognize that that equity of
27:23
outcome is actually a bad thing. We recognize that in order to get equity of outcome, you have to
27:29
steal from someone else in order to give to someone else. We also recognize that equality is a good
27:35
thing. So now what they're doing with the language, if you notice, is they're using the word equality
27:40
when actually what they mean is equity. So to the casual observer who would embrace equality,
27:49
you got to realize do they mean equality of outcome or are they speaking of equality of opportunity?
27:55
Are they speaking of equity from a standpoint of making sure that this person gets their fair share
28:02
or are we talking about equality from a standpoint of all of us are image bearers of God and equal
28:07
in the eyes of God and we have got to be better stewards of understanding
28:13
language and the like. Now your final question related to blacks and the amount of them, the number
28:18
of them that have voted Democratic, I think Darryl has a better handle on why that is but I would
28:26
appeal to the fact that what we call Christian or who we call Christian and what we've accepted in
28:32
culture from a standpoint of understanding Christianity plays a major role in the direction
28:38
we've taken. I could go back to historically and look at numbers and the programs that dealt with
28:44
with drugs and rehabilitation and the kind of welfare state that government has offered
28:52
the black community and how we've glommed on to that but I won't take the time to go down
28:57
those roads. I want to stay theological primarily and I think those are the rationale behind the
29:01
reasons why. Yeah let me just add to what Verda said there Kyle in answering your question. I think
29:07
a primary reason, this is not the only reason but I think a primary reason is because the
29:13
sermons and messages that you're getting from pulpits of predominantly black churches especially
29:19
in urban areas, they're basically giving the same message of suffrage. Given when the black
29:28
church was founded more than 200 years ago in this country most of the sermons that you're hearing
29:34
are still rooted in suffrage and slavery that have black people believing that they're still
29:41
looking for this Moses to lead them on an exodus into the Promised Land and that Promised Land is
29:47
always an economic Promised Land. It's always a materialistic Promised Land. That is what you're
29:55
getting, that's the hermeneutic, that is the interpretation of scripture that you're getting
30:01
from the vast majority of these pulpits in these inner city churches because what's happening is
30:06
these pulpits are increasingly being stabbed and manned by young black, some of them maybe
30:13
seminarians, some of them not who are coming out of liberal seminaries like union theological
30:19
seminary and others who have bought into this woke hermeneutic. They're being taught woke theology
30:25
in the seminary, so they're coming out of seminaries trained to basically propagate the same message
30:32
of suffrage in the pulpits of these churches and the congregants who sit under these sermons,
30:38
under these messages are binding, they're soaking it up hook line and sinker. When you think about
30:43
the whole matter of equity, justice, equality, a fundamental and predecessor question that has to
30:52
be asked even before we get to a conversation around what do these things look like? You have
30:58
to ask yourself where these ideas come from, where the idea of justice come from, where the
31:04
idea of equity come from, where the idea of equality come from, those are not ideas and concepts that
31:12
originate with originated with human beings. I'm looking at Genesis chapter 6 verse 5, it says the
31:19
Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth and that the that every intent of the
31:24
thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. So here we are an innately sinful human race.
31:34
Every one of us was conceived possessing a sin nature within our constitution and yet here we
31:40
are talking about equity, justice and equality concepts that in our own finite sinful fall in
31:47
nature we would never conceive of because look at how we're treating one another. So we go back to,
31:53
okay what's the origin of these principles? Well the origin is God and we need to be looking back
31:59
to the character of God for the definition of justice, the definition of equality, the definition
32:05
of equity. And I'll just close out by saying this, I wrote a blog article recently, Kyle and I
32:10
titled it the very words that you used in your question. I titled it equity or equality and I leveraged
32:17
uh first Kings chapter 3 and how Solomon wisely adjudicated that situation between the two prostitutes
32:25
who came before him each of whom was claiming that the baby uh that was uh in play here was
32:31
belonged to them. One baby had one of the mothers that slept on top of the baby, her baby died. Well
32:37
you had two women coming to Solomon saying hey we want you to decide this decision, this decision
32:42
for us and that whole situation Kyle involves both those concepts and involves equity and equality.
32:49
Now Solomon knew that he was responsible to God to adjudicate this situation based on equity,
32:55
that is unbiased the application of impartial truth to both people equally, that's how you get
33:01
equality. Solomon was not concerned about the outcome. So when we talk about in terms of equity
33:08
and equality, one woman in that situation, both women were judged with equity, but only one woman
33:14
got equality. Only one woman because one of the women had to walk away without a baby,
33:19
right? So that's equality as well but that outcome was rooted in equity, the impartial
33:27
application of truth to both women and then once you get that you have equality regardless of the
33:33
outcome. No I absolutely understand where you guys are coming from with that and guys again
33:37
this is another reason why you have to listen to the Just Thinking Podcast because we're giving
33:41
short shrift to these answers, we're getting you know a little five minute tidbits and you guys
33:44
spend hours and hours really kind of teasing these things out and you're not just going off
33:48
your own opinions or some books that were written by someone else who hasn't read the Bible either,
33:52
you're really digging into the theology and the reasoning behind everything. Another question I
33:56
have for you is around what I've seen is kind of the expansion of the word community and how that's
34:03
kind of going against individualism but it's also kind of aiding in some of the post-modern
34:07
thought and what I mean is you hear a lot of people in the news or maybe on Facebook or something,
34:12
they talk about the black community or the gay community or the Latino or Latinx community,
34:17
whatever you know politically correct language they're using but do you guys feel like that
34:22
hurts individuality? When you look at a group of people as a monolith especially a group of people
34:28
that are made up of you know having similar immutable characteristics do you feel like the
34:33
word community is maybe harmful to some of the arguments we're making? Yeah I absolutely think
34:38
it does matter of fact it hurts in the in a biblical sense it hurts because it robs you of the uniqueness
34:45
that you have in being created in the Amago day. It totally robs you of that and then lumps you
34:50
into this sort of generalized category based on the many presuppositions not the least of which
34:56
is that because you you qualify for this certain generalization of category that you think the
35:04
same way you act the same way you vote the same way you do everything the same way I mean this is
35:08
especially the narrative that is propagated in America and has been for decades as it relates
35:14
to black people. I wrote a blog article a couple years ago and I titled it the myth of black
35:21
community the myth of black community because that term black community is a myth it is a myth
35:28
because within the black community itself in America and I use the word black community in air quotes
35:34
within that demographic within that that category you have ethnic prejudice what people call racism
35:43
you have prejudicial racism within the black community I mean there are that's what I call
35:50
intra-ethnic racism that's intra-ethnic prejudice that's intra-ethnic bias we have black people who
35:58
are prejudice against other black people ethnic black people because of their the lightness of
36:03
their skin the texture of their hair the size of or thick the thickness of their lips uh there's all
36:10
kind of discrimination that goes on within uh demographic that no one wants to talk about that
36:18
is the elephant in the room so when you talk about community in terms of sharing a common shade of
36:26
melanin that is a myth we do but black people do not all think alike we do not all vote alike
36:33
we do not all subscribe even to the same worldview so so in that sense Kyle that term community
36:42
is it's a myth and it does destroy fundamentally the amago day and the uniqueness with which
36:50
God created every individual what about you Virgil I feel exactly the same way the idea of of community
36:58
is purposed right it's purposed to get you away from thinking of yourself as an image bearer of God
37:04
with distinct value dignity and worth and it aligns you with the purpose for the it's purposed
37:11
language to align you with a specific oppressed group so that once you've aligned with that oppressed
37:18
group we can examine the intersections of your oppression and an effort to leverage the narrative
37:25
to overthrow culture that's the whole purpose of this language around quote-unquote community
37:32
right I'm a part of the black community well that the black community now has a specific narrative
37:37
that is now leveraged for the purpose of overthrowing an upturning uh overthrowing and overturning
37:44
systems the capitalist system the capitalist culture I was watching a particular
37:51
video this morning uh where there was a because of the large Hispanic and black population in a
37:59
particular area or particular area of the country uh this particular school system was going to do
38:05
away with acronyms because they had determined that acronyms were now racist an acronym that
38:13
that all of us use equally is now racist language and so again what they did by what they what they
38:20
did is they appealed to the Latinx group and black and and the blacks and they said hey listen you
38:26
guys have been oppressed and as a result the oppression one of the things that have oppressed
38:30
you is acronyms and so we're gonna over to the whole purpose of of combining these community
38:37
quote-unquote communities together is for the purpose of looking at and deconstructing culture
38:43
that's why they're using it absolutely guys and man we could go into so many other different areas
38:48
but we're running a limited time so we're gonna go ahead and go to our last segment of the podcast
38:52
here what we always like to do with our guests is we like to do the segment called what would you
38:55
say to someone that said and basically i'm gonna fill in the blank and here's the thing this is
39:00
lightning round no matter how much you want to go on about the topic you've got 30 seconds to answer
39:05
that question even if it's on a big topic but it's just to give us a little bit of a nibble as to
39:09
kind of what your thought process is so you guys up for it yes sir yeah all right we'll go uh we'll
39:14
go back and forth we'll do Darryl first and then we'll do Virgil so Darryl what would you say to someone
39:18
that said the US can become a racism free country through government legislation impossible impossible
39:26
impossible because any ism any behavioral any attitudinal ism whatever the prefix is is the
39:32
suffix is ism whatever attitudinal attitudinal ism you're talking about originates in the heart
39:38
and you cannot legislate heart change it's impossible absolutely Virgil i heard you giggling in the
39:42
background so this one's for you what would you say to someone that said the US can become a racism
39:48
free country period well again that's absolutely foolish on its face because there are what's called
39:56
sinners in the world and the reality of the fact that there are sinners in the world is that sinners
40:02
actually sin uh and and to the point Darryl made that legend legend trying to legislate heart change
40:10
is absolutely irresponsible on its face i mean it it produces another another religion we have a
40:16
religion that changes hearts and that is the and that is the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ
40:22
right next lightning round question here Darryl what would you say to someone that said if Jesus
40:27
were alive today he'd be a socialist wrong if Jesus were alive today he'd be god okay well yeah
40:35
you can just walk off on that one i'll take it all right next one for you Virgil what would you say
40:39
to someone that said Carl Marx influenced the 20th century more than anyone else and he will
40:45
influence the 21st century more than anyone else well that that that has yet to be determined
40:52
but it is not surprising if the current trajectory is any indication um Marxian thought uh Marxism
41:00
is alive and well in the culture and i think it's important for believers of god to stand up to
41:06
the point Darryl just made about about Jesus him being god him being king of kings and lord of lords
41:11
we have to stand on that truth all right next one here what would you say to someone that said
41:15
this is for Darryl socialism will work it just hasn't worked quite yet wrong again i mean if
41:22
socialism see here's the irony about socialism you need capitalism in order for socialism to work
41:27
socialism right socialism so it's not secular to even think about socialism because it doesn't
41:33
like capitalism you know socialism works until everyone else runs out of money it's like at some
41:38
point it where it doesn't work out that way so yeah so last is on the cell yeah absolutely
41:42
there's no scaffolding to hold it up next question here Virgil what would you say to someone that said
41:47
the black lives matter organization slash movement will lead to more racism in the u.s i i would completely
41:54
agree with that that's been an indication if you even look at the at the at the numbers of of people
41:59
who who even during the the time period when black lives matter began which was under the obama
42:04
administration the more and more we focused on those issues the more and more we talked about
42:08
those issues the more upset and angry people became about those issues the more racism quote unquote
42:15
that they saw in the culture and so what you saw was not the negation of racism but the increase
42:20
and rise of it all right guys just a few more and we'll get out of here Darryl what would you say to
42:24
someone that said because of systemic racism in the u.s black americans just can't get ahead
42:30
well there is no systemic racism in the u.s number one and anyway what that statement sort of rules
42:38
out is God's universal law of reaping and sewing uh you know you you got a presupposition built in
42:44
that that doesn't define you know what what it is uh that black people have have not attained
42:50
by virtue of of that argument and what how can you demonstrate uh to me for example what I have
42:56
and obtain how can you objectively prove that it was systemic racism that caused me to not be what
43:02
ought to be by now absolutely next question Virgil what would you say to someone that said
43:08
planned parenthood was founded to systemically eradicate black americans again I think you go back
43:16
to uh the founder um Margaret Sanger and and look at what she determined I mean she her thought process
43:24
was you know she she had she had an idea that blacks were blacks and people of color were weeds
43:32
right that she she didn't think of them in the image of God or bearing out any value dignity and
43:38
worth and so she she leveraged that idea with black preachers and told them to to promote her
43:44
ideas I mean that's kind of what you at what you see have that's happened historically
43:49
and that currently takes place now with uh Planned Parenthood all right guys the last question of
43:54
the day and I will give you each a chance to answer and we'll just go alphabetical Darryl first
43:57
and then Virgil what would you say to someone that said in heaven we will truly be color blind
44:03
hmm that's an interesting well no number one we won't we won't be so again another presupposition
44:11
what do you mean by color blind right what do we buy that so we need to have some definite we
44:15
did have an objective definition of what that word means but according to scripture especially
44:20
if you look at Revelation chapter 7 no we won't be color blind we will all recognize one another
44:26
in heaven uh so we will identify one another as as as we as we knew you on earth even though your
44:31
existence won't be like it here is here on earth we will recognize one another so no you won't be
44:36
color blind the sinful prejudice that you harbor in your heart however will be a past thing a
44:42
passive reality yeah I mean I had a second think about it Darryl was put on the spot but
44:48
I would I would I would echo that I would say absolutely I mean in in in Revelation 7 we have
44:53
very tribe tongue nation race people group uh represented in heaven and what I think we'll get
45:01
back to is the beauty that God intended in created order from a standpoint of the beauty of diversity
45:08
of of of melon and of skin of texture of hair of of all of that that God desired for us to have
45:14
he desired for us to to examine his beauty and for it to be a reflection of his glory and so we we
45:19
definitely will see those things but in the proper light of of its gospel implication well guys that's
45:25
a great place to leave it we have talked about a lot of things on this podcast but before we let
45:29
you go is there anything else you guys want to get off your chest yeah I just want to point
45:33
first of all thanks again ciao for having us on and then secondly I just want to point all your
45:37
listeners to the just in podcast we encourage you to go to just thinking that's one word just
45:44
thinking.me just thinking.me click on the podcast link we have a repository of 107 soon to be 108
45:53
episodes where we've covered many of the topics that we've talked about here in great detail much
45:59
greater detail so check us out at just thinking.me or you can subscribe on any podcast platform.
46:07
All right. Daryl Harrison and Virgil Walker thanks for coming on Daunted Life, a man's podcast.
46:13
Thanks for having us thanks ciao.
46:15
There you go guys I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.
46:22
I just got to tell you when I leave a conversation with a couple of guys like Daryl and Virgil
46:27
I just feel like man I wish I was smarter I wish I would have read more books these dudes arguments
46:32
are so airtight and they're so pleasant to talk to and they play off of each other well I mean one
46:36
of them was in California the other one was in Nebraska and here I am in Oklahoma and we had a
46:40
great conversation so I really really hope you guys enjoyed that but before we let you guys go we
46:43
are going to do a quick resilience boost as you know by now we are a men's ministry and our mission
46:48
is cultivating manly resilience specifically we hope you do that by providing you content like this
46:52
podcast it helps you forge spiritual mental and physical toughness so the only resource we have
46:57
for you today is a link that Daryl talked about there at the end and that is the link to the
47:00
just thinking podcast page it's just just thinking.me.me and you can go there to get information about
47:06
the podcast how you can sport those two guys you know get over to their social medias but again
47:10
go anywhere where you get podcasts and you'll be able to find the just thinking show all right guys
47:14
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48:11
remember keep cultivating manly resilience keep forging spiritual mental and physical toughness
48:18
keep seeking the lion of juda
48:48
you