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I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
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Our guys today, we've got a very special guest on the podcast and that is Lila Rose.
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She's the founder and president of Live Action.
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So if you're not familiar with Live Action, they are one of the largest pro-life organizations
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on the planet and they are certainly that in the social space.
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So if you're on Instagram or Twitter, they do a lot of stuff on there, but this is a pro-life
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organization that Lila started in her living room when she was 15 years old.
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So just think about what you were doing and when you were 15, because I was a little embarrassed
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and I found out that at the age of 15, she started this basically pro-humans living organization,
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this huge organization that has grown to be such an influential thing in our society and
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in our culture, but live action is here and it exists to eradicate abortion.
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That is what they're here to do.
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This is a human rights organization, human rights start in the womb.
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Obviously guys, we've talked about this a lot of different ways on this podcast.
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We've dedicated entire episodes to this subject.
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This is something that is kind of interspersed and undergirds a lot of the things that we
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talk about.
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Guys, we are very much so in the pro-life cause and it's organizations that like Live Action
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that help us get the information out there and make sure that it's accurate.
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But the way that Live Action kind of is trying to eradicate abortion is they really do this
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in two ways is one through education and the others through investigation.
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So on the education side, they published one of the most widely read news sites on pro-life
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issues.
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So if you want to stay up to date on things that are going on with the pro-life cause,
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that's a great place to go.
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They're a great resource for that.
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But also investigation, they infiltrate pro-abortion industries and pro-abortion facilities and they
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go in there and they try to expose the lives of places like Planned Parenthood and other
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abortion mills.
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It's something that they do, they are constantly on the front lines and Lila is the leader.
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She is in the trenches on a day to day basis.
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And the thing about it is she is an important voice in this space.
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And guys, she's going to challenge you today.
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I mean, we talk about a lot of things and we get into some topics that you don't really
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talk about around the dinner table and what most of you have never really talked about
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before.
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But the thing is, she's aggressive in a very grace filled way.
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I guess that's the only way I could describe it.
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I'm just sitting here while I was doing the interview, we just wrapped up just a second
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ago and I'm just like, yeah, yeah, it's like you're ready.
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It's like you're ready to go to battle because the things that she's saying are true.
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This is a Christian woman that is leaning on the truth of God in order to fight against
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the evils of Satan.
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She doesn't really, you know, pull any punches with this podcast.
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That's why we loved having her on.
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So without further ado, let's get into it.
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Lila Rose, welcome to Undaunted Life of Man's podcast.
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Thanks for having me on, Kyle.
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I'm honored to be the inaugural woman.
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I know I was going to tell you, in case you didn't know, you are the first female guest
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of this podcast.
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So you have shattered the glass ceiling.
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Congratulations.
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We will send you a plaque, but we're so happy to have you on this podcast because you talk
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about a subject that we care about a lot on this podcast and with this ministry and that's
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the subject of abortion.
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And so I didn't, I couldn't think of anybody that would be better to talk about this than
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you.
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So we're, we're excited to really have you on and just to launch in from the beginning,
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the crazy thing about live action, which is the organization that you've created is that
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you founded it in your living room when you were 15 years old.
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Now, most of us probably don't want to tell you what we were doing when we were 15, but
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we certainly weren't starting a movement.
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So kind of what, what did your upbringing have to do with you kind of being into the
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pro life cause and kind of what makes live action different and how have you created
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it to be different than some of the other poor life organizations that we know of totally.
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So I am very blessed that I come from a huge family and a very faith filled family.
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So I'm one of eight kids, the third oldest oldest girl, got five brothers.
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My parents raised us as Christians.
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And that whole dynamic of being among a lot of children babies were seen as blessings.
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My parents were pretty counter cultural.
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They homeschooled us.
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We grew up in Silicon Valley.
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So Northern California during the tech boom when, you know, the whole left coast thing
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was happening.
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San Francisco, very left leaning.
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But my parents were really adamant about the gift of life and education and faith and family.
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And so that was really kind of by osmosis, what I was being influenced by growing up.
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And then when I found out about abortion, it kind of happened kind of accidentally.
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I was probably nine or 10 years old and I was in my parents house looking for a book
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to read again homeschool family, lots of books everywhere, lots of extracurriculars, lots
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of sort of, you know, organized chaos.
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But I found this book called a handbook on abortion and I opened it up.
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I was only again, nine or so at the time.
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And it had this, it was kind of an older book.
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My parents had just stashed it away with all these other books, but I was interested
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in it.
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I had heard about abortion, but I didn't really know what it was.
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It was just sort of a term I may have heard at the dinner table before.
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And so I opened the book up and I remember seeing Kyle for the first time, these images.
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And I was just completely struck, the heartbroken by what I saw.
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I was looking at the image of a child in the first trimester.
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So the first three months of pregnancy, this baby was probably 10 weeks old.
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And he or she had been torn apart by a powerful suction aspiration, abortion, which is the
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most prevalent abortion in America.
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And I'm looking at this as a nine year old, I'm thinking, is this real?
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Is this really happening?
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I went and showed my mom and I said, is this real?
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She said, yes, this is abortion.
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I started to learn more.
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I started to study.
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I mean, as I got older, I was really interested in like human rights and causes.
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But I kept coming back to the cause of abortion because I discovered that there were, and
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to this day, there's a little less than this, but still it's an astronomical number.
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At the time where there were a million abortions, every single year, legally in our country,
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now there's a little less than that, but hundreds of thousands of children being killed.
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And it was legal and it was accepted by society.
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And I was just learning about this.
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I thought, wow, I'm safe and protected as a kid and a little baby as a child in this
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household growing up.
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But there are children out there who are not protected.
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And so as a teenager, I was like, OK, I have to do something.
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I don't know what it is, but I'm going to start something to save the life, just to
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educate one person and maybe save one life.
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And so that inspired me to just get together some friends and be like, OK, what can we
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do in San Jose, California?
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What can we do here?
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To reach other young people with the truth, because I learned that a lot of young people
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have abortions.
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In fact, most abortions are in very young women.
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So what do we do to try to give them the education they need so that they can choose life?
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And that was the beginning, the inspiration point for live action.
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Well, that's incredible.
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And I know that a lot of people have found themselves in the same shoes as you.
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I remember when I was on a college campus as a freshman, and those are the first times
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I'd seen images of an abortion before.
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And it's funny.
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It's such a sanitized word until you see what an abortion actually is.
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And then it's not quite so easy.
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But for you, you're literally in the trenches of the abortion war every day.
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I mean, there's no one that I know that has a larger profile that is just basically centered
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around the pro-life cause.
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Obviously, Matt Walsh and Ben Shapiro, those guys have their big platforms for other reasons,
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a lot of political reasons.
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But for you, that takes an unreal amount of courage to be talking about that topic day
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in and day out.
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And I'm sure you would say that it's worth it.
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But I guess the question I have that I'm curious about is why do you put yourself through that?
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What is the reason?
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Well, I think once you see what an abortion is, like you said, you saw an image of a child
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who is killed by abortion.
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And it's no longer sanitized.
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It's no longer medicalized and talked about as a woman's right.
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But you see it as this totally destructive violence against an innocent child.
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I mean, the dismemberment, the decapitation sometimes of a baby, of a human being.
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These are almost all of them are fully formed.
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I mean, by the end of the first semester, you have all the internal organs that are there,
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the arms, the legs, the little face, everything.
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So once you actually come to grips with that horror, it gives you a fire.
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It gives you a courage.
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And then once you start to take action, and I'm sure people listening, you know, the men
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listening who may have taken action for what is right, standing up for justice in their
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own lives, once you do it the first time, it hurts, it hurts, you know, people shout
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at you.
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Someone's mad at you.
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But the more times you do it, the thicker your skin gets.
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And I think that was what I learned from a young age is to put yourself out there.
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The attacks do get greater, you know, the bigger you get, the harder you fall, the bigger
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you get, the harder, the bigger the attacks.
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But as you struggle forward and you persevere and standing up for what's right, your skin
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gets thicker.
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And a huge part of it for me too has been Kyle, my faith.
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I mean, God is the author of all life.
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He's the giver of all grace.
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I mean, he has the strength for every battle.
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He's the winner of every battle.
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And so to know that I am doing a little part to try to serve him and fight for his children
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and fight for women and men and marriage and these good things, that also is the source
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of my strength.
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Well, guys, if you were wondering before now why I had Lyla on this show, that answer should
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be the case because here's the thing is most guys are just scared to get into the fray.
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They don't really like conflict and certainly something like this to where you post something
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pro life on Twitter and you're canceled by all your friends.
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You know, we're getting to that place now where cancel culture, it might come for your
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job.
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Like they might come for your house when you post something that is just completely against
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what they believe.
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And that kind of gets into the next thing I want to talk about is just really the overall
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militants of the pro abortion lobby, the pro abortion movement, people that consider themselves
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to be pro choice.
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There's a definitive difference between most of the tactics on the pro life side and the
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pro choice side.
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Where do you think that militants comes from from people that are on the pro abortion side?
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Well, I mean, they are incredibly serious about protecting this so-called right to abortion.
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And I think a lot of it's fear based, a lot of it's wound based, but I think a lot of
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it, quite frankly, is it's the power of evil.
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I mean, it's satanic and abortion dismembering a child is satanic.
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There's no way around that.
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I'm not saying the person who goes to have an abortion is personally satanic.
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I think that they're involved in it in a great satanic evil, but ultimately, there is a great
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war here.
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It's a spiritual battle.
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It's not just this, you know, we don't just battle against flesh and blood as Saint Paul
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says in Ephesians.
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This is against powers and principalities, against spiritual forces.
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And you know, when I started doing investigative reporting when I was in college and live action
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does that to this day, and so going undercover in abortion clinics, doing investigative reports
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on the abortion industry, I saw firsthand that they use lies.
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They use manipulation.
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They use fear in order to persuade women that this is the right thing for them, that they
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should do this.
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It's a lot of fear driven decision making that's happening in abortion clinics.
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And the way to dismantle that is to speak the truth without fear.
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Or if you feel the fear to still speak it anyways.
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And it definitely, I mean, I don't, I'm not saying it's going to be easy.
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It's not easy.
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But one person standing up against that, one person willing to stand up despite the fact
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that they might get canceled by someone, or maybe even their job might be at risk or something.
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You know, they have a lot on the line.
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You then give the courage to others.
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Your example inspires others, but if all of us are silent, if all of us look at each
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other and we're afraid of what might happen, and often, by the way, the fear of what might
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happen is often greater than what the thing itself, you know, that one Twitter troll where
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we find our courage and we speak out, we find other people that do agree with us.
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We give other people the courage and we actually build alliances.
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So I think the thing that the takeaway for anyone listening is this is a spiritual battle.
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It requires prayer.
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It requires guarding our, you know, putting on the armor of Christ and it requires leaning
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into our faith, but it does require sacrifice.
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And speaking up and being willing to take some of those blows, we will discover that others
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will join us and we will discover alliances that we did not see.
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We may not have known, known about before.
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And when your answer is actually pertinent to something that's happened recently, just
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within the last few days, I got a message from one of our listeners and he was just
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so confused about spiritual warfare.
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This is a guy who's been a Christian for about 30 years.
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And he's like, I can't find pastors that will talk about spiritual warfare.
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And I kind of told him, I was like, you're assuming your pastors are sheepdogs.
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You're assuming your pastors are tough guys.
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That's a really hard topic to talk about for people, which dovetails into what I want to
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talk about now, because I find a major issue with modern day churches as it pertains to
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the issue of abortion.
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They either one don't talk about abortion at all, or secondly, you know, maybe they talk
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about it softly.
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You just kind of peck around at the edges and the third thing is maybe they can dim it from
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the pulpit, but nowhere else you're never going to find them online.
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You're never going to find them on the street corner.
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They're only going to do it from behind the safety of their pulpit.
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So from your perspective, there are a lot of churches that do go out and about, but the
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majority of them don't wire most churches unwilling to get into the trenches on this
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subject.
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I mean, it's literally a violation of the amago day of the image of God.
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Like, what's their problem?
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Why won't they jump in?
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It's a good question. I think there's a few things at play.
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First of all, there is, it is very difficult to be disliked.
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You know, you don't want to cause offense.
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Pastors are trying to fill their seats, you know, their pews.
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And so to speak the truth about the hardest conflicts underneath the surface in our culture,
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conflicts about sex, you know, the truth about sex and marriage and pornography, to
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speak the truth about, of course, human life and abortion, these are hard things.
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And they affect people personally.
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This is not just some political issue.
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This is an issue that's in our homes, in our neighborhoods, in our communities.
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So that's why I think a lot of pastors are just frankly afraid.
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They don't want to make a mistake.
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They don't want to alienate people.
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But by making that choice of not saying anything and not addressing it, they let the evil sit.
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They do not deal with the violence in their own household.
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And they will not protect those that are the most vulnerable and also give the opportunity
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for healing, because here's the reality.
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There are many people in our churches today who have had abortions or may need to be
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in a position to consider an abortion in the future and to not speak about it also takes
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away the potential for healing.
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Because if you don't know that what you did was wrong or you're not convicted of it and
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then you're not offered the path for healing, saying to repent and to ask for healing from
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God, then that is a crippling burden.
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And so many people carry the crippling burden of abortions in their past because they haven't
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reckoned with the violence and the fact that this was their child that they were involved
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with killing and then received the healing love and grace that only God can give.
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So I think pastors have a huge opportunity here if they will see it that way.
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And it's up to the people around them to encourage them to see it that way.
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One other thing I will say though, Kyle, is it has to do I think with sex too.
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And it has to do with marriage because we in our culture have basically denigrated sex.
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We have taken sex outside of marriage.
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We've taken sex.
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We've flitted away from children said, okay, if sex is for intimacy, it can be just for
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intimacy.
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It doesn't have to have anything to do with life.
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I'm not saying every time a married couple has sex they have to have a child that's not
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how it works biologically.
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But we have had this mindset in our culture that either you can have sex without marriage
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or you should be entitled to sex without kids.
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And that mentality is very poisonous because then when someone does get pregnant and they
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thought, well, I wasn't expecting to get pregnant, I wasn't expecting to have a child.
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I'm not planning this pregnancy, then they're tempted to an abortion.
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So I think until our church is grappled with and teach the truth about sexuality and God's
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plan for that, which is between a man and a woman in a marriage where they are open and
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open to life willing to receive children of God blesses them with those children until
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we see God's vision for sexuality and marriage, I think our culture will continue to wrestle
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with the temptation to kill children that are seen as unwanted.
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That's great.
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And I certainly cosign all of that.
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And in addition to that, I think for the guys listening to this, a lot of your pastors
15:59
are unwilling to stand up on the subject of abortion, they're unwilling to stand up and
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protect the most vulnerable amongst us because they don't think that you're going to have
16:07
their back because they think if the heat gets too hot that you're going to be one of the
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guys that's like, hey, pastor, I pass the plate, I come here two or three times a month like
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I'm good to go.
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And so that's the encouragement that I would give to any of you guys is Lila's right.
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This is one of those problems that you end up having is that the guys that are supposed
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to be leading you don't feel like you have their back and so they don't lead well.
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And so you have to be able to allow them to lead well, you got to have their back.
16:31
But one of the things that I'm curious about is basically how live action chooses the way
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that it goes about fighting this battle.
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So obviously with live action, you've shown pictures of aborted, aborted children.
16:43
You've shown kind of cartoon animated depictions of different abortion procedures.
16:48
You've done interviews, you have a high profile, but then there's also some people that really
16:52
like and really don't like the fact that a lot of people in the pro life cause are now
16:56
leaning on science as kind of their basis as opposed to leaning on the Bible.
17:00
Everyone's got their own opinion, whether they're inside or outside the pro life cause.
17:04
But for you and for live action, how do you decide which ways that you decide to fight,
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which arrows you decide to shoot off?
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How do you decide that?
17:11
That's a great question.
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So first of all, I'm a Christian, I'm Catholic and a lot of our staff are people of faith.
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I mean, pretty much all of us have some sort of a faith background.
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And the beauty of our faith and of the faith is that it does not contradict reason.
17:27
I mean, God created the world, God created logic, God created science, God created the
17:32
entire, all of creation.
17:34
And so the thing, the case that you can make against abortion, using science, using basic,
17:40
the basic morality that is written on the human heart.
17:42
So this idea that we shouldn't kill each other, that that is actually a larger, that is part
17:48
of the world of morality that God created.
17:51
So you can talk about abortion from an explicitly Christian perspective or you can talk about
17:56
abortion referencing the morality that is written on every human heart and referencing
18:01
the facts of science that we can see, which is that life begins at the moment of fertilization
18:07
and unique individual, single-cell human embryo is there.
18:10
I color-determined, sex-determined, ethnicity-determined, everything and should be protected and should
18:15
be treated as equal because all humans should be treated equally under the law.
18:19
So you can make that argument live-action.
18:21
We try to make the most universal case for life and we do that every day, reaching millions
18:28
of people, primarily young people, talking in just the basics of fetal development, the
18:34
development of the embryo.
18:36
People don't realize the heart is beating at three and a half weeks.
18:38
I mean, before a lot of women even know they're pregnant, that child's heart has started to
18:42
be.
18:43
People don't know about the abortion procedures.
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So we actually just get the former abortionists.
18:46
We work closely with a lot of doctors, former abortionists to actually describe and detail
18:51
the abortion procedures that alone changes hearts and minds.
18:54
We tell the stories of former abortion workers.
18:57
We interview them, we do investigative reporting of abortion facilities.
19:00
It just is amazing to me that for all the political debate on abortion, for the discussions
19:06
that have may have been have in the past on abortion, many people are actually very
19:09
uninformed or they have a lot of confusion or there's a lot of misinformation out there.
19:14
So when they are given opportunities to see the truth about life in the womb, the violence
19:17
of abortion, the risk to women, that there are better options, that life is a good thing
19:22
and that we should celebrate it, we see hearts and minds changing all the time.
19:27
Well, and the thing about it is as most people don't stay up on this issue, they pretty much
19:31
decide one day that the pro life or pro choice, but I've seen y'all do things before where
19:35
you'll actually show people videos of, you know, cartoon depictions of an abortion and
19:39
they just have no idea.
19:40
Again, it's what I was talking about earlier.
19:42
It's just a word in their vernacular abortion, you know, I want to protect women.
19:46
So I'm for abortion, whatever that means.
19:48
And they're basically just parroting whatever their favorite politician has said at some
19:52
point in the past, they've never actually reckoned with it and thought about it.
19:56
And part of the reason is because of really evil organizations and what would a good abortion
20:00
podcast be without talking about one of the most evil companies on the planet and that's
20:03
Planned Parenthood.
20:05
And the thing is, is when most people think about Planned Parenthood, they think of them
20:08
as a women's health facility that, you know, does abortions from time to time, right?
20:14
And that's obviously not the case.
20:16
But why do you think that so many people have that perception that Planned Parenthood is
20:19
just kind of this morally neutral company?
20:22
Well, I mean, look, Planned Parenthood has been around for over a hundred years now.
20:27
They have been backed by some of the biggest billionaires in the world and of the last
20:31
century from Rockefeller now to Gates and Soros.
20:35
And they have friends in virtually almost every major media and a lot of the minor media companies.
20:41
I mean, most media today is pro-abortion, almost all the editorial boards of most newspapers
20:46
in this country are pro-abortion editorial boards.
20:49
So they an entertainment media, I mean, actresses at the Golden Globes with the Oscars wearing
20:54
the Planned Parenthood pin when they accept their awards.
20:58
So they have won and they've done this, by the way, Kyle, because for decades now, they
21:04
have received hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer money.
21:07
So they not only have a billionaire supporting them, but they have us taxpayers forced to
21:11
give them money through Medicaid, reimbursements and other funding streams through the government.
21:16
So they are incredibly powerful.
21:18
They have built so much cultural cache, they've built so much of an institution and infrastructure.
21:24
And that's why they have succeeded in, and by the way, they buy so many politicians.
21:29
I mean, they invest tens of millions of dollars in elections to try to get politicians that
21:34
are favorable to them elected.
21:36
So we're up against an incredibly powerful infrastructure that is over 100 years old
21:43
and live action and a group of other pro-organizations, we're fighting this battle.
21:49
The good news is we are winning.
21:51
We are winning hearts and minds every day because we have truth and we know how to reach
21:56
especially the next generation young people, despite all of these power structures working
22:02
against us.
22:03
So there's a lot of work left to be done.
22:05
I mean, there's a tremendous amount of work left to be done and I need everyone listening
22:10
to be part of this work.
22:12
I mean, whether you become people who speak out in your churches, starting post-abortion
22:16
healing ministry, support pregnancy resource centers, you know, donate, whether you actually
22:21
pray outside of abortion clinics, definitely if your parents or dads, educating your children
22:27
loving them well and raising them up with character and just to value human life, we
22:32
all have a part to play with everyone is needed to win this battle.
22:36
Right, and the thing is, is you're making the great point that the DAC is stacked against
22:40
us.
22:41
That's just the reality of it.
22:42
I mean, you've talked about before about a lot of your social media posts have been
22:45
throttled.
22:46
They've been shadow banned and even a lot of organizations or people even like this podcast
22:50
and this ministry, whenever we post about abortion, there's just something different
22:53
that happens in the algorithm.
22:54
It's almost like it was planned to be that way.
22:56
And so we have to basically fight in every way possible short of sin to fight inside of
23:01
this issue.
23:02
And part of it is because of what has now become acceptable discourse when it comes to
23:06
abortion.
23:07
So on this podcast, I've mentioned before, I've mentioned the Overton window for so
23:10
those of you who haven't listened to my entire episode on that, it's essentially the things
23:15
we're able to talk about with commonality and in common public discourse, right?
23:20
And so an example that I like to use is with the Overton window, you know, it was crazy
23:24
10 years ago to think that a three year old could choose their gender, but now we're having
23:28
discussions about that.
23:29
Oh, you shouldn't question a three year old boy who thinks they're a girl, you know,
23:32
stuff like that.
23:33
But one thing that I've seen that is absolutely terrifying, but also the next logical step
23:38
in this whole pro-abortion anti-life movement, it's infanticide.
23:42
And we saw that with Governor Ralph Northam in Virginia.
23:45
We've seen other prominent politicians talk about that.
23:48
From your perspective, and this might be spitballing, this might be a little bit tin foil stuff,
23:52
but how far away are we before there is cultural support, wide ranging cultural support for
23:59
things like infanticide?
24:00
Sure.
24:01
Well, here's the thing.
24:02
The culture is made up of us.
24:04
So the question is, the question to ask is, will we allow the culture to get to that place?
24:10
And will we allow, will we continue to tolerate the fact that infanticide is already happening?
24:15
It's just on infants who are already in the womb, that they just aren't born yet.
24:19
I mean, I see, there's no moral distinction between an abortion and an infanticide.
24:23
It's on the same baby at just different locations or a different age, you know, at a different
24:29
age of a child.
24:30
So we're already there, Kyle.
24:31
We've been there for quite some time.
24:33
And what you see when, you know, you see this really gross political displays of support
24:38
for some of these things, it just shows that they've lost, they've lost their own ruse
24:45
of being moderate, right?
24:48
Originally it was abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.
24:50
That's what Hillary Clinton said in the 90s.
24:53
And now it's like, no, we want to portion through all nine months, even after birth
24:57
for any reason and it's, you know, it's, we're going to show our abortion and it's a woman's,
25:01
you know, it's empowerment.
25:03
So they're changing their messaging, but the reason that I think they're doing that, Kyle,
25:07
is because they're getting desperate.
25:09
They know that you can't just be moderate on abortion.
25:11
You're hot or cold.
25:12
You either say that it kills a child and you reject it, or you say, no, this is not
25:17
a child and I, or if it is a human, I have full control over it and it has no right so
25:21
I can do whatever I want to it.
25:23
You can't really play moderate on this issue because it's completely intellectually dishonest
25:28
to do so.
25:29
So there's a kind of intellectual honesty with, you know, ethicist, so-called ethicist
25:34
Peter Singer who's pro infanticide and he's a very famous, you know, he calls himself
25:38
an ethicist.
25:39
I wouldn't call him that, but he says because the child in the first three months after
25:43
birth is not developed enough, you know, his brain is not developed enough, then he should
25:49
be, you should be up to appearance if they do want to subject him to, to kill him, you
25:54
know, to commit infanticide.
25:55
So you do have those voices in our culture, but I think there's a, I think it's reaching
26:01
a fever pitch and I think that it's now is the time for action.
26:04
I mean, now is the time for every person of goodwill, every person who knows the truth,
26:09
to speak it, to speak it, to not be silenced, to, if someone's trying to cancel you, you
26:14
get back up again and you speak it again, to not, to not use the sense of urgency that
26:19
we have to be cruel or to be unfair or to be ever untruthful.
26:25
I mean, we should always have our words seasoned with, with a grace, a graciousness and a compassion,
26:31
but we need to all be speaking because this, this, this battle that's happening that's
26:36
playing out is ours.
26:38
It's not just something that we, you know, we're bystanders and this is our battle and
26:42
the question is, will we, will we own it and will we, will we fight for victory in it?
26:47
Right.
26:48
And I think the best thing to look at this as is this isn't a moderate issue, but there
26:51
are people that do find themselves in the middle that, that can be swayed one way or
26:54
the other.
26:55
And you know, a comment like what that guy said, like, I don't have a baby that's yet
26:57
three months old, he'll be three months old here soon.
27:00
I doubt he would say something like that to my, to my face.
27:02
This is just a guy that's just saying things and he's being protected by the people around
27:06
him by the people that think that way.
27:08
Part of the way that we get into the fray is where we actually answer pro abortion arguments.
27:13
And so if you go all the way back guys to episode 78 of this podcast, it's called answering
27:17
17 pro abortion arguments and I kind of break down 17 of these arguments and the questions
27:22
you should ask in response, it's not always statements.
27:25
It's not always bumper sticker stuff.
27:26
It's the questions you should ask these people in response.
27:28
So I would actually like to bring some of these arguments up to you and have you just quickly
27:32
kind of go over how you handle those objections.
27:34
So the first one is the one that's the most common, that's my body.
27:38
My choice.
27:39
So how would you respond to that?
27:40
Sure.
27:41
I mean, it's funny as a woman, I do believe that, you know, it is my body and, you know,
27:45
you have the right or you have the, your body, you get to decide what you do with your body
27:51
up until the point that your body or your decision may hurt somebody else's body, may
27:56
hurt somebody else.
27:58
And when a woman is pregnant, I mean, it's very clear she's pregnant with somebody, somebody
28:03
else besides herself, I mean, she, you don't get pregnant with yourself, you get pregnant
28:07
with another person.
28:08
If a woman is pregnant with a little boy, she hasn't become part male, right?
28:12
She has a male baby in her, in her, in her womb.
28:15
So yes, I believe my body, my choice, but that doesn't mean I have the choice to kill
28:20
somebody else and to attack somebody else's body.
28:22
There's a unique body inside of me and they deserve to be protected just like I do.
28:27
For sure.
28:28
And another argument that you hear a lot is, you know, it might be human, what's, what's
28:31
inside the womb, but it's not a person.
28:34
What would you say about people that are trying to draw a line of delineation between a human
28:38
and a person?
28:39
Well, that's sadly the game, tragically the game that every human rights abuser has played
28:44
for centuries.
28:45
You know, the blacks are not fully human.
28:48
They are the dehumanization game.
28:50
They are only maybe three fifths of a person.
28:53
They might be human, but they're only three fifths of a person or Jews are subhuman.
28:58
So they're not really people and should not be considered as such.
29:01
And so we should.
29:02
It's okay to terminate them.
29:03
This is, of course, the line of the Nazis.
29:05
I mean, anytime you say any human is also not a person, you're immediately dehumanizing
29:11
them in an attempt to oppress them.
29:14
And that's been borne out throughout decades, throughout history and even throughout American
29:19
history, sadly with our treatment of blacks in America.
29:23
So I, you know, to do that now to the pre-born because they are helpless because they can't
29:28
speak out on their own behalf.
29:30
They can't defend themselves.
29:31
It is cruel.
29:32
And that's why, you know, we're so passionate in the product movement and defending them
29:35
because they don't, they're not able to defend themselves.
29:38
Right.
29:39
And the last one here before we move on with the rest of the interview is this one that
29:42
you hear a lot and you've heard this a lot more lately for whatever reason, but it's
29:45
what about the hard cases?
29:47
So health, risk to mom, rape, incest, all the extreme cases.
29:50
So how do you answer when people ask about that?
29:53
Sure.
29:54
Yeah.
29:55
And one other thing on the human person matter.
29:56
I mean, the bottom line is if you're a human, you're a person, period.
29:59
You know, any, every human is a person.
30:01
There's nobody that's just, that doesn't get, get to be part of the person club because
30:05
somebody who's more powerful says, Oh, sorry, you're not a person because it's inconvenient
30:09
to me.
30:10
It doesn't work like that.
30:11
We're all people.
30:12
As for the hard cases.
30:13
Yes, there are a lot.
30:14
And by the way, live action, it sounds like you have a great podcast on this as well.
30:18
But live action has a whole series called pro life answers to pro choice questions.
30:23
And it really goes through some of these hard cases, as well as just other common questions.
30:27
But just to tackle a couple, there's a common argument that abortion is medically necessary.
30:33
So they say abortion is needed because otherwise women will die.
30:36
Well, this is actually a lie.
30:38
And it is one that has really taken hold of the whole medical profession in America.
30:42
Thankfully, there are doctors who are fighting back and they say, look, we can provide a way
30:47
to care for both mother and baby.
30:50
And if there is a treatment, like if the mother has cancer and she undergoes chemotherapy
30:53
and she's pregnant, and that chemotherapy has a negative impact on the baby, it hurts
30:59
or even kills the baby, that's not an abortion.
31:02
And abortion is the intentional and direct killing of the baby.
31:05
The intentional, direct killing of a baby is not a medical treatment.
31:08
There's no, there's no medical advantage to the mother to directly kill a baby.
31:13
In extremely rare, serious cases, there may be a situation where they may have to deliver
31:19
the baby early.
31:20
But in that case, you try to give the baby a fighting chance.
31:24
You try to monitor the pregnancy so that it goes on long enough so that that baby may
31:28
be old enough to survive outside the womb.
31:30
And then you try to put that baby in NICU to give that baby a chance.
31:33
You don't target the baby's body for destruction with abortion forceps and lethal injections,
31:39
which is what abortion does in a later term or in the second trimester, third trimester.
31:44
And then another hard case would be rape and incest.
31:46
You know, those are obviously horrible cases and they account for 1% to 3% of abortions.
31:55
Sometimes, depending on the numbers, it's far less than 1% of all abortions.
31:59
But in these cases, obviously, we need to hold the aggressor accountable.
32:02
I mean, we need to strengthen laws to protect victims of assault and survivors, and we need
32:08
to hold them accountable.
32:10
But we don't even give the death penalty to rapists.
32:12
It's against federal law to do that in the United States.
32:15
Why do we give the death penalty to the baby?
32:17
Why do they get to be held accountable for the crimes of their father?
32:21
And does an abortion really serve a survivor of rape?
32:25
Well, you actually look at the stories and live action does a lot of work with survivors
32:28
of rape and victims.
32:30
And we've discovered, and studies have borne this out, when you are experienced and endure
32:35
the violence of a rape, that's a violence against your body.
32:38
And abortion is actually another violence against your body.
32:41
It's this traumatic, unnatural act that rips a child out of you and it doesn't heal you
32:47
of the memory of your rape.
32:49
So an abortion doesn't take away the memory of the rape, it doesn't take away the trauma.
32:52
It actually adds more trauma.
32:54
And it adds a moral injustice on top of what was originally an injustice done against you.
32:59
It adds a second injustice.
33:01
So on all accounts for the sake of the baby and the mother, abortion is also not a solution
33:06
in any way to rape.
33:08
That's great.
33:09
And in what you were saying there, you were also talking about criminality because again,
33:13
you talked about, you know, you're not going to get the death penalty for something that
33:16
your father did.
33:17
Most people, if you look at that outside of the case of abortion, it's like, if my dad,
33:21
you know, knocks over liquor store and shoots the clerk, I can't go to prison for that.
33:24
It just makes the most sense for whatever reason people get the water is a little bit
33:27
muddy on the pro-life side, but I think in terms of criminality, I think it's important
33:32
to talk about this topic and I'd love to get your opinion on it.
33:34
But most people, and I believe I've seen you said before, you say this before, so correct
33:38
the record if I'm wrong, but abortion doctors should be able to be charged with murder.
33:42
That's something that should be able to happen because obviously these people are intentionally
33:47
taking a human life.
33:48
But what I'd like to hear from you is, do you believe that women getting the abortions
33:52
should be charged with murder?
33:54
Sure, well, I think just like there is a case, a state-by-state basis, there are laws that
34:01
deal with parents who are involved in child abuse, child neglect, or even child endangerment
34:06
or child killing.
34:08
In an abortion, sometimes the mother is a primary aggressor going in to get that abortion
34:12
sometimes.
34:13
She's being pressured into it, sometimes it's her partner, it's the boyfriend, or it's
34:17
the mother, or it's even the husband.
34:20
So I think just like in any other case where there's a child that's killed or endangered,
34:24
you have to look at the circumstances, you have to look at why this happened, why this
34:28
child was brought to be aborted, or why this child was aborted, and then the penalties
34:34
have to be applied based on those circumstances.
34:38
So it's not as simple as saying every woman who has an abortion is tried for murder, actually
34:42
this child was murdered, why was this child murdered, you look at the circumstances, you
34:46
look at the evidence, and then you treat that child legally the same way you would treat
34:51
a newborn because that child is just as valuable and just as much a human as a newborn.
34:56
So essentially, if a woman walks into an abortion mill, not with a gun to her back, not with
35:01
an aggressive boyfriend or pimp or something like that, she's walking in knowing that she
35:04
has a live human being inside of her stomach, but she doesn't care, she's going to go in
35:08
and she's going to pay someone else for the pleasure of killing her baby.
35:12
That girl should be charged with murder, yes?
35:14
Yeah, I think that she should be charged with, there should be absolutely criminal penalties
35:19
for abortion.
35:20
I think it needs to be criminalized, it's a violent act against an innocent human being,
35:24
and there are unfortunately human beings out there who are mothers and fathers who are in
35:31
their right mind, they're not being pressured and they're willing to do very evil things,
35:35
and the law needs to take that into account.
35:37
But I will say that most of the women that I've engaged with who do seek abortion, there
35:42
is pressure often involved, coercion, and there's often a situation of fear or circumstances
35:50
around them that made them feel driven to do this.
35:54
And just like those things would be taken into account, desperation would be taken into
35:58
account in any other murder case, those things have to be taken into account in the case
36:02
of an abortion.
36:03
Sure, and one quick follow up on that as we move towards the end of our show here is
36:08
how far do you think that should extend?
36:10
Because if I decided I wanted to go kill somebody and I have my buddy drive me there
36:14
and he doesn't know what I'm going to do, if I go in there and murder that person, he
36:18
could be charged with murder just the same as me.
36:21
Should there be charges for the person, the family member that drops him off at the abortion
36:25
mill or the person that's pressuring them?
36:26
How far should that go or is that too contextual to really get into here?
36:30
No, I don't think it's too contextual.
36:31
I mean, the law is actually already very, and I'm not a legal expert on all of this,
36:36
but the law is actually very complex already when it comes to murder, homicide, the intentions
36:43
behind it, those that might be accomplices to it.
36:46
And so any, again, if this is a human life, which we know it is, and this is a child that
36:51
is just as valuable as a newborn child, just as valuable as you are, you are, you are
36:55
eyed.
36:56
They deserve to be protected by those same laws.
36:58
So will there may be need to be added complexities for some of the extra stress as a woman who's
37:02
pregnant might experience?
37:03
Yes.
37:04
But if you are an accomplish in encouraging or pushing for an abortion, then yes, you should
37:11
be liable for that as well.
37:13
Okay, so we'll go and shift gears from that very, very important, but also very deep
37:17
topic.
37:18
And here recently, everyone on this podcast knows that I've welcomed a baby boy into
37:23
our family, but you seven months ago around that time, you welcomed a baby boy into your
37:27
family.
37:28
So this is you and your husband's first child.
37:29
And so that's obviously a very important and crazy and sleepless and thankless experience
37:34
and all the things that go along with having a child.
37:36
But for us specifically, I want to know for you, what did the process of getting pregnant,
37:42
being pregnant, giving birth and now raising your baby boy do for your pro life convictions?
37:48
Well, it definitely just strengthened them.
37:50
I mean, when you actually have a baby in your, I mean, as a man, this has not happened to
37:55
you, I know, but when you actually have the experience of being a mother and a father
37:59
has a different experience, but it's parallel in the same, you feel a tremendous protectiveness,
38:03
I'm sure for your wife and your, and your baby.
38:06
You feel this fierce protectiveness as a mother, but I also have a deep appreciation for just
38:11
the heroism of motherhood because so many women and especially mothers who are choosing
38:17
life despite really difficult circumstances.
38:19
I mean, because of our culture, there's a lot of single mothers out there because of
38:23
our culture.
38:24
There's a lot of abandonment and I'm just incredibly in awe of women who choose life
38:30
every day and fight for their kids, even if they're abandoned by their partner or their
38:34
husbands or their boyfriends or they are just left alone to deal with, deal with the pregnancy
38:39
to deal with the baby. And I, that's why I just love our movement and the work of pregnancy
38:43
resource centers because, and it just makes me appreciate that work so much more and support
38:47
it so much more because it is standing in the gap for those women who are saying yes
38:52
to this sacrifice and this beautiful gift of a child.
38:55
Yeah, I think that's incredible. And you mentioned that fierceness. It's one of those things
38:59
where, where guys will tell you, you know, right before you have your kids, like you'll
39:02
never know that you can love something, but they're like, you'll never know the depths
39:05
that your anger could go until you see something that is helpless. And you just think about
39:09
someone was trying to do harm to them. And then, you know, you can roll that into what
39:12
people are thinking in terms of the abortion issue would have somebody had tried to take
39:16
this baby's life before they were geographically outside the womb. That would be a big deal.
39:20
But another thing to just for men, because I know a lot of men are listening, that the
39:25
power of a man who is faithful, who is committed to a woman for life and married her and he's
39:31
fighting for her and, you know, her being a mother and fighting for his child, that is
39:36
incredibly important role. That is, I think, undervalued, not seen, not recognized enough
39:43
on our society. And I cannot say enough to encourage any men listening. Maybe you're
39:47
not a father yet. Maybe you're not even married yet. But you just prize to prize fatherhood
39:52
and to prize being a husband because I lean on my husband so much. I'm so grateful for
39:58
him. He's a strong man who's tender and strong with our son, who fights for our family. And
40:03
that is exactly the kind of man that is necessary to rebuild our country and is necessary for
40:09
us to have a shot at ending this crisis that we're facing culturally with abortion.
40:14
Amen to that. And one of the things that you're going to be doing to help fight this scourge
40:18
of abortion in our country is that you've actually written a book. And so I'm sure you're
40:22
going to be talking about a lot of topics in the book that is forthcoming. And it's
40:26
going to be a lot about your life and a lot about other things. But as far as I understand
40:29
it, you just recently turned in a transcript for your book that is looking to be released
40:33
in 2021. So just tell our listeners about the process. What's the book going to be about?
40:38
What can we expect? Sure. Well, I'm excited to share it. It'll be out next year. I'll be
40:41
sharing more on my Instagram and Twitter and my podcast in coming months. But it is a book
40:47
that's basically a part story, part guidebook for standing up for life in a culture that
40:52
is hostile and in a world full of lies and a full of violence. And so in it, I share
40:58
some of the things I've learned. I hope it's encouraging to other people to give them a
41:02
way to stand up themselves as well as what I've seen in the abortion industry, what I've
41:07
seen firsthand in these abortion clinics that are lying and manipulating and profiting off
41:12
of pain, but that we can overcome this if we are willing to stand up, if we're willing
41:17
to fight back and not allow it to continue while we, while we just, you know, live our
41:24
lives and get busy, but instead engage the engage the battle. Well, we are certainly excited
41:29
to see that and next year, whenever this does release, we will get you back on here and we
41:33
will talk about it to make sure everybody knows where they get the book and get a little bit
41:36
more content. But before we let you go today, we are going to do a segment that I love doing
41:41
with certain guests. And it's called, what would you say to someone that said? And then
41:46
I'm going to just put in a blank thing and it might be a small issue, it might be a large
41:49
issue. But here's the rules. You got 30 seconds. That's it. It's just meat, potatoes, answers,
41:54
not a lot of nuance. You just got to get in and get out. So you up for it? Well, well,
41:59
let's let's try. Okay, don't worry. It won't be too terribly scary. And I feel like any
42:05
more or a bag of peanuts, depending what it is, I don't know, meat and potatoes, the whole
42:09
try. Okay, well, we'll get into it as far as we can. So here we go. What would you say
42:13
to someone that said, if you don't have a uterus, you can't have an opinion about abortion?
42:18
Well, a baby is either a boy or a girl. So it affects just as many boys as girls. And
42:24
it takes a man and a woman to create that baby. So if you, if you have the potential to be
42:31
a father, you should have an opinion.
42:33
So Lila mean potatoes, you're going to do great at this. So let's go to the next one.
42:37
All right. What would you say Kyle? But keep going where we got it. But you're prepared
42:45
for this. So it's like it's it's not fun if someone's going to be, you know, crumbling
42:48
under the pressure, you're up to it. So here we go. What would you say to someone that
42:52
said pro lifers just hate women?
42:55
Well, I am a woman and I love woman. I love women and they're lying. Pretty straightforward.
43:03
All right. Next one here. What would you say to someone that said, even if the unwanted
43:07
baby is taken to term and born, there wouldn't be a family available to adopt them?
43:13
That's a lie. I mean, there are thousands and thousands of couples desperate to adopt,
43:18
but they can't because there's a shortage of babies are being aborted. I know personally
43:22
many couples, dozens of couples that want to adopt, but they can't because they're in
43:27
long lines. So give that baby a chance because there's a lot of families waiting to love
43:30
them. Amen. What would you say to someone that said there are so many problems in this
43:35
world? I just don't have time to be outraged about the subject of abortion.
43:40
Some problems are bigger than others. And abortion, I see is the greatest human rights
43:45
abuse of our day because when you deprive the most fundamental right, which is like you
43:49
can't enjoy any other right without life. And you deprived the most vulnerable members
43:55
of society of that right. That is the core of the greatest injustice. You can't you can't
43:59
get more. Once an abortion is it takes place, you can't undo it. That baby is gone forever.
44:05
And that's why this is the greatest crisis of our day because we're losing 22 over 2000
44:11
of these children every day. And we can't get them back.
44:14
Yeah, there's no mulligans. There's no takebacks. What would you say to someone that said abortion
44:18
helps the economy? That's first of all a lie. Human beings are our greatest resource and
44:25
their creativity and their work and their skill is what creates an economy in the first
44:31
place. So you kill a child, you kill a human being and you kill all that potential to create
44:36
and contribute. And yeah, so I think children are one of our greatest resources. And then
44:43
the other thing too is the economy is not the most important thing. I mean, the most important
44:47
thing is love and serving others. So if you make material goods, your God, that's a miserable
44:53
way to live and die. That's right. A few more here in this one, you hear a lot on the lips
44:58
of a lot of politicians. What would you say to someone that said, I'm personally not comfortable
45:02
with abortion, but I don't want to tell other people what to do.
45:06
Well, it's the same thing. If you said I'm personally not comfortable with child abuse,
45:11
but I wouldn't tell you not to abuse your child. I'm not personally not comfortable with rape,
45:16
but I wouldn't tell you not to rape somebody. Well, you can be personally not comfortable
45:20
with, you know, I don't know, not wearing a seatbelt or jaywalking or not eating meat
45:25
or something. But some things are right and some things are wrong. And killing a child
45:30
is always wrong.
45:32
Yep, the logic doesn't follow a couple more here. What would you say to someone that said,
45:36
if you support abortion, you're not a Christian?
45:40
It's true. If you support abortion, you're going against the very heart of what Christ
45:46
taught, which is to lay down your life for others. That's what Christ did for us for
45:50
the promise of eternal life for our sin. And he asked us to take up our cross and follow
45:55
him. But abortion does the opposite. It takes another person's life for our own.
46:00
All right. Last question of the day, Lila, what would you say to someone that said, in
46:04
the future, abortion will again be illegal in the United States?
46:08
Absolutely. I certainly hope so. And that's what you've dedicated your life to. And that's
46:13
what we here are going to do everything that we can to make sure that that is the case
46:17
as well. But Lila, we have talked about a lot of things in a short time period today.
46:21
But that is all for me. Is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
46:24
No, I appreciate it, Kyle. And I think I love that men are talking about this because this
46:29
is just as much a man's issue as a woman's issue. It affects all of us and we need strong
46:33
men in this fight. So thank you for for fighting for life.
46:37
Absolutely. Lila Rose, thanks for coming on Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
46:41
Thanks for having me, Kyle.
46:47
You see, guys, I tried to tell you that was a good one, wasn't it? Guys, I really enjoyed
46:51
that conversation. I'm really excited to have her own next year when her book comes out.
46:54
But guys, before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost. As you know,
46:57
by now, we are a men's ministry and our mission is cultivating mainly resilience. Specifically,
47:01
we do that by providing you content like this podcast that helps you forge spiritual, mental
47:05
and physical toughness. So for today, I've got a couple of links for you. One is the live
47:08
action website, guys. If you want to follow them, if you want to put the RSS feed on there,
47:12
if you want to follow them on social media, all those links are right there on their website.
47:15
And then also, I've got a link to the Lila Rose show. So that's her podcast that she
47:19
has. She's taken a little bit of hiatus from that when she's been on maternity leave, but
47:22
that is about to get ramped back up. So make sure you guys click on that, go to wherever
47:25
you listen to podcasts and make sure that you subscribe and leave her a positive review.
47:29
Guys, thanks so much. We really do appreciate listening to this podcast. If you would, please
47:32
subscribe on Apple podcast iTunes, Spotify, Google podcast or Stitcher and refer your
47:37
friends to listen and share this on social media. Guys, if we deserve a five star review,
47:41
please leave us one. That is how this show will continue to grow and get out to the right
47:43
people. I'm currently booking speaking engagements for the remainder of 2020 in the beginning
47:47
of 2021. So if you want me to come speak on your podcast at your men's event, at your
47:51
church, at your company, whatever, hit me up info at undaunted life. Again, that's I N F
47:55
O at undaunted dot life. The website is www dot undaunted dot life. You can follow us on
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Instagram and Twitter at undaunted life or Facebook dot com backslash undaunted life.
48:05
Check out our free devotionals on the U version Bible app. Just search undaunted life under
48:08
plans. And as always, we want to thank the band August Burns read for allowing us to
48:12
use their entire music library for our content. The intro outro track on this podcast is our
48:16
song to fender, which is off their latest record entitled guardians, the links are in
48:20
the description. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep cultivating manly resilience,
48:26
keep forging spiritual, mental and physical toughness, keep seeking the lion of Judah
48:31
We need to defend our voices and say that you're the great. We need to defend our
48:44
voices and say that you're the great.