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This is a Daunted Life of Man's Podcast.
0:50
I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
0:52
Let's get into it.
0:53
Our guys today we've got a very special guest.
0:55
His name is Ash Dykes.
0:56
This guy is a Welsh explorer, adventurer, and extreme athlete, and I've got to put a lot
1:01
of emphasis on the word extreme.
1:03
This dude has done a lot of different things.
1:05
You may recognize that name because just earlier this year, I think it was in January, he appeared
1:09
on the Joe Rogan experience, and so let me give you a rundown because this might jog
1:13
your memory on who exactly this guy is.
1:14
I'm just going to read this stuff from his website to give you an idea of what he's been
1:17
doing over the last several years.
1:19
He walked solo and unsupported across Mongolia in 2013, age 23.
1:25
The 1500 mile journey over the Alte Mountains and across the Gobi Desert took 78 days.
1:31
He became known to locals as the lonely snow leopard.
1:34
In 2015, he completed the 1600 mile trek across Madagascar via its eight highest peaks and
1:40
which was another world first.
1:42
Along the way, he contracted the deadliest strain of malaria possible and was close to
1:46
death.
1:47
As a result of the experience, he is now a special ambassador for the charity Malaria
1:51
No More UK.
1:53
In August of 2018, he embarked on another world first record attempt to walk the 4000 mile
1:59
course of the Yangtze River.
2:01
The successful completion of his year-long mission earned him celebrity status in China.
2:06
So guys, all three of those things that I just mentioned, Mongolia, Madagascar, and
2:10
the Yangtze River in China, those were all world first.
2:13
No one had ever pulled off those things ever before, and this was all before the age of
2:18
30.
2:19
And when we recorded this podcast, the guy's 29 years old, an incredibly interesting guy.
2:25
We talked about a lot of things.
2:26
We talked about all the things that we just talked about here, all these different missions,
2:30
how he trained and prepared for these missions, what gear he used, what gear is useless.
2:34
The times when he almost died.
2:35
I mean, guys, we go deep on all of these.
2:38
So without further ado, let's get into it.
2:41
Ash Dikes.
2:42
Welcome to Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
2:44
Hey, man, get to be on here.
2:46
Hey, man, I think you're the first adventurer explorer that we've ever had on this podcast.
2:51
So that's kind of a unique thing.
2:52
I mean, do you have that on a business card or something?
2:54
You should have that on a business card, if you know.
2:56
Yeah, I used to, you know, I used to, but now everything is just online.
3:01
You know what I mean?
3:02
Yeah.
3:03
It's like a business card.
3:04
I never had that.
3:05
But when I did have a business card, yeah, it was adventurous slash extreme athlete.
3:07
And I'd always have to personally look at that and say, "What does this mean?"
3:10
And then it gets tricky for me because I don't know how to really explain that without taking
3:14
five minutes at their time.
3:16
Well, I was joking because your Instagram is pretty much your business card at this point.
3:20
So people don't know that, but now they should.
3:22
But I want to just kick things off today with, you know, kind of the thing that sparked you
3:26
being this household name.
3:28
And that's because you appeared on the Joe Rogan experience.
3:30
And so obviously that is the most, probably the most popular podcast on planet earth.
3:35
It's certainly one that's on the tip of everybody's tongue.
3:37
So if you could just to start out, take our audience through what it was like being on
3:42
that show.
3:43
And how did they get in touch with you, how long were you there in studio?
3:47
Is Joe secretly a horrible person, you know, just give us a rundown on your experience?
3:52
Yeah.
3:53
So it all happened via email.
3:54
So it was by email.
3:56
It was a fairly fast turnaround.
3:57
So it was the end of December to come out in, to fly out to Los Angeles in January.
4:05
So I did, I didn't mess about.
4:07
I was, I was straight out there.
4:09
I had a friend of mine here in Wales who flew out with me and it was just a great time.
4:16
You know, we rocked up in his sort of man cave, which is massive.
4:20
It's, it's, it's just awesome.
4:22
He's got a bit of everything inside.
4:24
And I was greeted by his, by his security guards who were amazingly welcoming.
4:30
You know, they showed me around the invite me inside.
4:33
And at that time, Joe was live, uh, or on air with, uh, Joey Diaz.
4:40
And so about an hour later, Joey Diaz, um, wrapped up.
4:45
And so I met Joey.
4:46
I met Joe.
4:47
We hung out for a bit, said, bye to Joey.
4:50
Uh, Rogan gave me some of this coffee, which has to reconcile this really healthy stuff.
4:55
It's, it's tasty.
4:56
And then that's it.
4:57
We went inside and we cracked on with the podcast and to be honest, it was just such
5:01
an amazing time.
5:02
I think the podcast lasted about two and a half hours, but even afterwards, we were
5:06
still talking for another hour, um, we had so much to talk about, but he is just as cool
5:12
off podcast as he is, uh, as you see him on YouTube.
5:16
There's no, there's no change, uh, which is great.
5:19
So yeah, you know, very hospitable, very welcoming.
5:22
You made me feel at home.
5:23
It was an awesome experience for sure.
5:26
Well, the thing that's interesting whenever you listen to his podcasts and whenever you
5:30
actually watch, you can see that his guests are very comfortable.
5:32
You can see some of them are tentative, um, they're at the very beginning, but then they
5:36
do kind of settle in.
5:37
I've had a few people on this show before, I've had Zubi, Pat McNamara, they've been
5:41
on the Joe Rogan experience.
5:43
Was there anything that you maybe wanted to communicate that you didn't feel like you
5:47
had the opportunity to?
5:48
Was there anything that came up like that?
5:50
Um, I don't think there was, you know, I don't think there was there were, of course
5:55
there were so many more stories that I could have, I could have said about two and a half
6:00
hours is a long time, uh, to get a decade worth of adventures and experience in.
6:07
So of course it's, it's like that with every podcast.
6:10
I like to think that every podcast I go on, hopefully with your, uh, with yours as well.
6:14
I'll bring something new to the table that I haven't discussed on any of the previous
6:18
podcast, just because there was so much to discuss, it's been 10 years of, um, living
6:25
this, uh, adventurous life, but then another five years of building up to breaking my goals
6:30
down, planning the logistics and whatnot.
6:32
And so, so yeah, there's again a lot to discuss, but I finished them.
6:36
I was, I was happy.
6:37
That was my first, that was my first in person podcast actually.
6:40
Yeah.
6:41
The Joe Rogan.
6:42
And I told Joe about it.
6:43
And he was, I know, I felt like I cheated the system and slipped right in there to the
6:47
top, you know.
6:48
Yeah.
6:49
You kind of did.
6:50
You cut the line in front of everybody, but I will tell you, even if you're, even if your
6:53
answers are boring today, you're the first guy to talk with a Welsh accent on this podcast.
6:57
So we're going to be, we're going to be just fine, I would say, cause you're at least going
7:01
to sound cool.
7:02
So just kind of go, go back to before, uh, you were this, uh, world renowned adventure
7:07
explorer.
7:08
I remember you talking about on the Joe Rogan experience that you were on your way to being
7:12
a corporate guy, to literally carrying around a business card with no irony whatsoever,
7:17
but living kind of the lifestyle of a corporate business person.
7:21
But actually you mentioned that you had it one comment.
7:24
This really stuck out for me from your, your interview with Joe.
7:27
Yeah.
7:28
You heard a comment from your boss and it kind of pushed you towards the life that you're
7:31
leading now.
7:32
Can you kind of take us through what the comment was?
7:34
Yeah.
7:35
Well, that was actually a reminder.
7:37
So I was living the trouble life, but I then slipped into working in Australia's selling
7:43
Australian power and gas and this only lasted for probably about one, one and a half months
7:47
this job.
7:48
Um, and yeah, it was sort of, I was, you know, had this suit on.
7:52
We were sort of walking around streets, knocking on people's doors, trying to sell this Australian
7:57
power and gas.
7:58
And I was new to it.
7:59
Um, so I was shadowing my, my boss, um, on the fifth or sixth day.
8:04
And yeah, he sort of walked up to this driveway.
8:07
Uh, I already had a feeling that, you know, I don't know about this job.
8:11
It's been, it's been a few weeks now, I'm really not enjoying it.
8:15
It's not why I set off for traveling.
8:17
But of course I needed this job to help top up the funds so that I could continue traveling.
8:21
So it was almost like a checkpoint.
8:23
Uh, and so whilst I'm here on this checkpoint selling this power and gas, we approached this
8:27
guy who's doing all sorts of, like you mentioned earlier on in this podcast, I'm on the break
8:31
dancing.
8:32
Uh, what's he doing?
8:33
Pull ups.
8:34
I've been, you know, he was doing all of these swaying motions as he was doing these
8:37
pull ups and he jumped down anyway, um, and my boss, you know, tried to sell the Australian
8:41
Paringas, the guy declined politely saying, but I appreciate what you guys are doing in
8:46
a walking round wearing suits in 40 degrees Celsius, which is a hundred degrees Fahrenheit,
8:52
trying to sell Australia Paringas to make a living.
8:55
And then my, my boss just turned around, you know, it's so cringeworthy rubbed his fingers
9:00
as in them doing the money song and said, yeah, but we get paid a lot of this though.
9:05
And I drive a skyline and instantly it was just a slap in the face and the guy replied
9:11
straight away.
9:12
Well, it's not all about the money as it is about the lifestyle too.
9:15
And that was kind of like an awakening, uh, a reawakening, should I say, you know, because
9:21
I didn't come all the way to Australia and plan to travel this far to then do something
9:26
that I could do back here in Wales.
9:28
I did know that I was only topping up the funds and I wouldn't be in this job for a long
9:32
time anyway, but it was just a slap in the face.
9:35
I was getting a little bit unhealthy because my boss liked to eat KFC every morning.
9:40
I obviously wouldn't do that, but he was a whole different lifestyle.
9:44
I was always into my fitness into my nutrition.
9:48
And I was putting on a bit more weight.
9:50
I was walking around in the suit and like, it just wasn't me.
9:52
It just wasn't, wasn't me.
9:54
I'm not saying it's the wrong thing to do.
9:55
I'm just saying it wasn't me and that guy just, you know, I think in live life, we always
10:00
have these little nudges and I've had it for the past 10 to 15 years in little things
10:05
that send me in a different direction.
10:07
And that is an example of, you know, a little thing that, that spurred me on the next day
10:12
I quit my job.
10:13
I purchased myself a $50 woman's mountain bike because that's all I could afford.
10:17
And me and my friend was cycled across southern part of Australia from Melbourne to Adelaide
10:21
and on the great ocean road and that reign, you know, that ignited this spirit of adventure
10:27
again.
10:28
It's, you know, I'm back at it doing what I have been doing for the past few years and
10:31
doing what I love.
10:33
Well, and I think the word I really liked that you use was nudges because I think a lot of
10:38
guys that are maybe living kind of the cubicle corporate life or, you know, doing something
10:43
that they don't really feel any desire or fire or passion about, they get those nudges
10:48
and a lot of guys just ignore them.
10:50
And that's one thing I've talked about on this podcast before is I feel like sometimes
10:53
God whispers to us and you kind of filter it through your brain, like, okay, where is
10:58
this whisper coming from?
10:59
Is this God?
11:00
Is this Satan?
11:01
Did I, KFC this morning?
11:02
So I have gas.
11:03
You know, it's like what?
11:04
Where is this coming from?
11:05
But for a lot of guys at the very, very least, and I'm sure you would agree with this ash,
11:10
they just need to explore that nudge or explore that whisper a little bit because there's
11:16
going to be some level of confirmation along the way.
11:19
Wouldn't you think that was a real nudge?
11:20
Yeah.
11:21
No, definitely.
11:22
I do agree.
11:23
Don't dismiss it so early, you know, if you're happy and these nudges happen, then great.
11:30
It doesn't doesn't matter as much.
11:31
But if there's, you know, if you feel like you need a change and there's lots of little
11:35
things that are nudging you or putting you into a different direction, and that's what
11:41
you're wanting, then go for it because, you know, I do believe we must pursue and follow
11:46
our heart, our passion, and we mustn't ignore it.
11:50
I absolutely agree, and so let's go ahead and get into what the majority of guys know
11:54
you for now outside of the Joe Rogan experience, and that is the missions that you've been
11:58
on.
11:59
So I definitely want to kind of cover what you did with Mongolia, Madagascar, and the
12:02
Yangtze River.
12:03
But let's just start with Mongolia.
12:04
So for the listeners that don't know, on the 5th of August of 2014, you actually became
12:09
the first person in recorded history to complete a solo and unsupported walk across Mongolia.
12:16
And so I think the first place to start is, what does unsupported mean?
12:21
I guess what are the parameters around what makes a walk solo and unsupported, and why
12:26
did you choose to do it in that way?
12:29
Yeah, it's interesting because with the whole Mongolia trip, I was planning that originally
12:34
unintended without realizing that it was a record.
12:39
So I had lots of previous adventures before Mongolia, and a lot of reckless, dangerous
12:45
adventures, not for social media, just for the passion.
12:48
I wasn't sharing anything on social media for the first, probably for the first four
12:52
or five years.
12:53
I was purchasing $10 bikes, I was cycling across Cambodia and Vietnam, with not even
12:58
a puncture repair kit.
13:01
I was trekking into jungles sort of crossing from Thailand into Myanmar, learning how to
13:07
survive in the jungle with Burmese hill tribes.
13:09
All of this was on a low budget.
13:11
I think most days I was spending a couple of dollars per day, especially on my Vietnam
13:14
cycle, we've spent 20 cents, and we'd be sleeping in a hammock shop overnight.
13:20
We were trekking the Himalayas in India, and so all of these reckless adventures at the
13:28
time, these reckless adventures in Southeast Asia really, really embedded into me, even
13:35
to the point of going to Australia and taking on journeys, whether it's hitchhiking across
13:39
the north, because our car broke down in the outbacks, or cycling down south, because we
13:44
got sick of our work as Australia Power and Gas salesmen.
13:49
All of these adventures played a key part when I did finally settle in Thailand for
13:53
two years as a master scuba diver instructor and multi-fighter.
13:58
Talk about what we were mentioning earlier about following your passion.
14:03
My big nudge then was, or not a nudge, but something that played on my mind constantly
14:09
every day was adventure.
14:10
I loved the lifestyle I was living in Thailand, there were beaches, scuba diving, so it was
14:16
extreme sports, it was martial arts, it was fitness nutrition.
14:19
I should have been happy when I was 21, and I just had this itch, I knew that there was
14:25
more stuff out there for me to do.
14:27
I hadn't seen what I was truly capable of, and I just had this taste for adventure, and
14:34
I didn't want to ignore it, I wanted to pursue this adventurous life.
14:37
I was thinking, where can I go, that is extreme, what country am I unfamiliar with?
14:43
And Mongolia just instantly stood out.
14:45
I was a scuba diver, meeting travelers every day, and I didn't come across any main topic
14:51
of conversation, is to talk about traveling, of course, because they're all scuba diving
14:56
to tick it off their bucket list, and you ask them where they've been and where they plan
15:00
on going.
15:01
I didn't come across one traveler who said they've come from Mongolia, or they plan
15:05
on going to Mongolia, Mongolia was just that big question more, I didn't know much about
15:09
the place, I was curious.
15:10
So my initial idea was, right, I need to pack in this scuba diving job, and I need to do
15:16
something in Mongolia.
15:18
I like the idea of walking, because I've done plenty of cycles before, and for me, cycling
15:23
is awesome, but you're on a road and where there's road, there's people, where there's
15:26
people, there's food, there's water, you're relatively safe, but the idea of walking, you
15:31
know, you could go places where cars, vehicles, bikes can't get to, and I like the idea of
15:38
relying on myself to survive the journey, and I knew that Mongolia was home to the Gobi
15:43
desert, to the outside mountains, the Mongolian steppe, you know, you've got the reindeer
15:47
herders up north, the camel's down south, the eagle hunters in the far west, originally
15:52
introduced from Kazakhstan, which borders Mongolia, and I was just fascinated, so I thought maybe
15:58
do a 100 mile walk, or maybe do a 200 mile walk, right, maybe go in a group, or maybe
16:05
go with my friend Matt, who, Matt was always traveling with me for the first few years,
16:10
we left North Wales, we were both saving up life garden, and boom, off we went.
16:17
But he didn't really like the idea of Mongolia, I think the dangers scared and the dangers
16:22
sort of put him off and was like, yeah, maybe you're on your own on this one.
16:26
And yeah, I then decided why not attempt to walk its entire length.
16:30
So when I decided that, I started to realize that, okay, this is going to be, I'm going
16:35
to have to do it alone.
16:37
So I started to look for those people who had done it before, and I did extensive research,
16:41
I even started contacting logistic companies and fixes on the ground in Mongolia, the
16:46
real geographic society in the UK, and we couldn't find any evidence to suggest that
16:51
anyone had completed a solo and unsupported walk across Mongolia, but we did find someone
16:57
who had attempted, and they had attempted three times, but was unfortunate, evacuated,
17:01
I think it was just before, or just after the halfway point.
17:06
But I reached out to this guy, and he claims to be the first to, the first recorded to
17:11
actually attempt the solo on a support walk.
17:13
And when I contacted him, he was a decent guy, you know, nice fella, he reached back out
17:17
to me, and my biggest question was sort of what are the dangers, and he got back with
17:21
this big list, you know, the dangers of the gray wolves, the drunken nomadic drifters,
17:27
the sandstorms, the snowblazins, the steep provides, the dry wells, and their list went
17:32
on and on.
17:33
And then I started to research who this guy is, and I realized he was a Navy soldier, he
17:38
was a desert explorer, he's crossed the Sahara Desert, and I'm just instantly, I just shrivel
17:44
up.
17:45
It's been significant, and I'm like, and I've cycled Vietnam, you know, and I'm a scuba
17:51
diver here on an island, and I'm about to go to the desert for the first time, try to
17:56
cross it.
17:57
So, you know, I had a lot of fear, and I had a lot of doubt, so I dismissed Mongolia,
18:02
and ignored it, started to focus on more populated, and more safer countries to walk, but that's
18:08
when I realized, you know, just because no one's found a way to do something, doesn't
18:12
mean it can't be done, and that's when I realized if I can do the right training, the right
18:18
preparation, have the right logistics team, study all of the things that could go wrong
18:23
and learn how to overcome them, then maybe this expedition can be achieved.
18:29
And so solo and unsupported, so solo meaning I would be on my own, there'd be no one walking
18:35
with me, and unsupported meaning I wouldn't have a van nearby, you know, if I need to
18:42
be picked up, I can't just sort of whistle the van, which is trailing behind me a couple
18:45
of miles on in front of me, I would be out on my own, and that also meant that I would
18:49
need to carry all of my provisions in order to survive, which I pulled for the 78 days
18:56
for the 1,500 miles, I pulled a trailer behind me, sort of had this three-point harness.
19:04
And that came to a weight at its max load, that was 18 stone, so 120 kilograms, which
19:10
is about 260 pounds, I believe, and that's three weeks over the outside mountains, five
19:16
weeks through the Goebb Desert and three weeks across the Mongolian steppe.
19:21
Well, I didn't want to ask you about your trailer, because you had a lot of problems
19:27
with it, and like, sitting here having not ever done something like this, is there another
19:32
way that it could have been done, because obviously you made it, but you did have a
19:35
lot of problems with the trailer, you know, obviously having to traverse mountains, and
19:38
you had to go through sandy areas and all that, and for any of you guys, I think that's
19:41
not a big deal.
19:42
Go pull something through sand and see how easy it is.
19:45
But you know, what was the thought process around doing a trailer the way that you did
19:49
it?
19:50
Yeah, so we found many people who would trek different parts of Mongolia, thanks to my
19:56
logistics manager, Rob Mills out in Mongolia.
19:59
And we contacted these guys, they are sort of the most experienced trekkers within Mongolia,
20:04
and they pretty much said it's just not possible to cross the route that I was taking.
20:11
It's not possible to cross the land with a rucksack.
20:16
You would need a trailer, and even then, they didn't believe it was possible.
20:21
So this is why I had a lot of the doubts and a lot of fears, and the main reason is because
20:27
some of the water wells are spaced so far apart from one another.
20:31
So you'd need to be carrying either container, which would hold 20 liters, that's 20 kilograms
20:38
of just water on its own.
20:41
And my trailer, I didn't have no funds, it's always been sort of low budget adventures.
20:47
And so my trailer wasn't this nice carbon fiber built in a factory, it was just built
20:52
in my family friends backyard, and it was mild steel, because that's all we could afford.
20:58
And so on an empty load, that is already 40 kilograms, I don't know what that is in pounds,
21:03
but that's 40 kilograms with nothing in it, you know, 60 with just the trailer, just the
21:10
water.
21:11
But of course, we were carrying like five weeks worth of ration packs, clothing, a camping
21:14
equipment, electronics, the whole shabang.
21:18
And so yeah, we realized that, okay, if I'm going to do this, I've got a list.
21:22
And to these experienced hikers who say it's not possible, you know, that's why they
21:26
say the nomads, when they travel to the nomads, cross the country all the time, they're all
21:29
over the place.
21:30
But that's why they travel as a community with each other, or with the camels, always
21:36
actually with the camels, or with the yaks that carry the supplies, because they, you
21:40
know, they are going far distances.
21:43
And so yeah, we realized that the only way to do this was with a trailer.
21:47
And as you know, a lot of man, a lot of hauling expeditions do fail because of the trailer.
21:52
But luckily mine was robust.
21:54
I had no problems.
21:55
My only issue with the trailer was that it was heavy.
21:59
And whilst in the Gobi desert, it was a lot of gravel mixed with soft sand.
22:03
When you're in that soft sand, it's like pulling a concrete block through hell.
22:08
And I mean, that's one of the things that people don't understand is I think most people
22:11
think when you say something along the lines of, Hey, I walk this many miles, they're thinking
22:15
as the crow flies, they're not thinking about anything in between.
22:19
So you weren't just talking on a private trail road, all these miles, which would have been
22:23
hard enough in the time that it took you to do it.
22:26
But one of the things that you did, you've talked about before, I've heard you say, is
22:28
that Mongolia of all the places you've been and all the things that you've done, that it
22:32
was the wildest place that you've been to.
22:35
And you mentioned a little bit earlier with, with the animals and all the different things.
22:40
But why, why is Mongolia the single wildest place that you've been having, you know, obviously
22:44
lived in Australia, you said you walk through the outback, which is a place that you don't
22:48
want to find yourself because everything out there wants to kill you.
22:50
Why is Mongolia even even worse than that?
22:53
Yeah, there was something about Mongolia that just made me feel so far, so far from home.
22:59
I mean, I was, but I went over, I think I went eight days without seeing a single person
23:06
at one point, you know, and you're, and in the outer mountains, you're high.
23:10
You're over 3,000 meters altitude, you're, you're vulnerable, you'll be in hit by the
23:15
elements, there's wolves, there's strong winds, it can drop to minus 15 minus 20 degrees Celsius.
23:23
Yeah, sometimes it's, it's just a place that makes you feel so vulnerable.
23:29
And I did experience that a lot.
23:30
So I would say Mongolia and Qinghai Province, which is in the west of China, where I started
23:35
mission Yangtze, are two of the wildest places I've been because you just feel so alone.
23:40
And it's difficult, isn't it?
23:41
Because it's easy, I'm, I'm a fool for doing it too, but it's easy for me to look at a
23:47
challenge or an adventure on TV and be like, yeah, I could do that, I'd love to do that.
23:53
But I'm saying, I'm saying that when I'm in shelter, when I've got a belly full of food
23:58
and I've got a warm cup of tea in my hand, when I'm in high spirits, when I'm feeling
24:02
positive, and I'm in full fitness mentally and physically, but when you're out there
24:08
and you're all hungry, you're thirsty, you're beating, you're in pain, and you don't have
24:13
shelter, you've not eaten for help for however long, you know, and you realize that backup
24:19
isn't.
24:20
So with my backup, especially the previous guy, I think he was evacuated by helicopter,
24:24
his wife, his Russian, and he had, had access to the Russian military, he couldn't get
24:30
away with that, but with myself with it being so low budget, my only means of escape was
24:35
a text only, satellite phone to my agent based in the capital and I would need to rely at
24:44
least three to four days for him to get to me and then another day or two for him to
24:47
get to safety.
24:48
That's not a great plan.
24:51
That's really not a great plan.
24:52
That's it.
24:53
You know, if I stood on the back end of the snake, four days is just too long, isn't it?
24:59
And I did almost lose my life because of that whole reason, you know, I faced a scenario
25:03
where I was past the point of backup and my only option was to walk myself to safety,
25:08
which was very scary.
25:10
So yeah, there's that vulnerability as well of knowing, well, look, this isn't, this isn't
25:14
being filmed by Nat Geo, you know, I've not caught a helicopter that's going to whip me
25:18
out.
25:19
I am on my own and I'm walking past these camel carcasses thinking, yeah, I could just end
25:23
up being a carcass, you know, it's, it plays with your mind is tough, tough mentally.
25:29
Sure.
25:30
One last thing on Mongolia before we move on to Madagascar is you mentioned having to
25:34
deal with the sandstorms and to me of all the things that you mentioned on that laundry
25:39
list of dangerous things that could happen, especially the list that you got from that
25:42
guy, the sandstorms seem to be the one that would freak me out the most, just because
25:47
it's anyone that's not experienced the sandstorm before, like, just go, go Google.
25:52
It's like this.
25:53
It's like biblical almost.
25:54
It's like this.
25:55
Yeah.
25:56
It's hitting your direction and it doesn't just pass you by in 30 seconds.
26:00
It lingers and it disorientates you and all these different things.
26:03
So how hard was it dealing with sandstorms?
26:06
Was this like a daily occurrence?
26:07
Like how, how often did this come up?
26:10
No, there were always sort of little dust storms in the Gobi every now and then, but
26:15
I would say I faced three relatively big sandstorms during my time.
26:22
And yeah, you're right.
26:23
They don't just pass by.
26:24
I passed your in and for I think the longest I was in the sandstorm was about 20 minutes,
26:28
you know, maybe maybe 30 minutes if you include the after effect of it, you know, it's not
26:32
so strong.
26:34
But that's painful because it's not just sand, it's it's whipping up.
26:37
It's also some stones and small pebbles as well.
26:41
And it causes like a sandpaper or like a whipping effect on your skin.
26:45
So you do have to cover up.
26:46
I've got my gloves on.
26:47
I put mine.
26:48
I had like ski goggles, you know, the mask that you can put on.
26:51
I had both to cover myself, a hat, gloves, a fleece to cover my arms and you've just
26:56
got to brace.
26:57
But I didn't stop walking.
26:58
You know, I was always keen to cover distance.
27:00
So once I felt protected, I did try to plow on.
27:03
I would find like a little track, maybe a goat's track, camel's track, or motorbike
27:08
track and just try to to follow that because you're right, it's dark, it's noisy and it's
27:13
easy to get disoriented for sure.
27:15
Well, that sounds pretty terrible.
27:17
I don't know why you do that to yourself, but we'll just keep this going because you
27:20
keep torturing yourself, but that's why you're on this podcast.
27:22
So the next big mission was Madagascar.
27:25
So you actually became the first person recorded history to ever traverse Madagascar's link.
27:31
And you went through the interior.
27:33
And so you had to deal with eight of the highest mountains and that is the fourth largest island
27:38
in the world.
27:39
You ended up trekking about 1600 miles in about 155 days.
27:44
So the thing that you mentioned and that I thought was funny whenever you described
27:48
this particular mission is that it was really sketchy.
27:51
That was the word you use that this entire trip was just sketchy.
27:54
So what was so sketchy about Madagascar?
27:57
Oh, man, you know, when you think of Madagascar compared to Mongolia, I had a lot of people,
28:02
especially when I announced it in the press, I had a lot of people debating, you know, like,
28:06
oh, it's gone from the big mighty Mongolia to to the little island where the lemurs
28:12
all in Madagascar, they were massively mistaken, Madagascar was.
28:18
It was intense.
28:19
It was, well, you said it yourself, that was only 100 miles longer than Mongolia.
28:25
Yeah, it took almost double the duration.
28:27
Took 155 days compared to 78 days that it took across Mongolia.
28:32
It just seemed that every there was with Madagascar, there wasn't one just pleasant
28:38
day's trek, it was never, well, that was a nice day's walk.
28:42
It was never that.
28:44
It was just challenge after challenge and let me break some of these challenges down.
28:49
I had to avoid the bandits down south that would cause an all sorts of havoc.
28:54
I was held up at gunpoint by military, a drunken officer.
28:57
In fact, I caught the deadliest strain of malaria, I almost lost my life.
29:03
Luckily, it's been eradicated fully out of my system because it was the, you've got the
29:07
deadliest strain, but you've got three other strains and the three lower strains, the malaria
29:12
can remain dormant, but the deadliest, which is called fulsi-paurum, can kill you within
29:17
24 hours.
29:18
But if you catch it within that time, it's the only strain that can be eradicated.
29:22
I had that eradicated.
29:23
That was only one month into a five month expedition and I now lost 13 kilograms because
29:30
of it and had another four months left of the highest mountains and the densest jungles.
29:35
But I cracked on after eight days, the leeches, so we had the leeches dropping from the jungle
29:42
canopy as we're sort of hacking through the bush and the shetting hand.
29:47
No one really goes through the interior.
29:50
It's very wild.
29:51
It's dense jungle, not much of a population up there, difficult to find, more food, more
29:57
water.
29:58
But that was part of the challenge and I just added the fact that that's some of the eight
30:02
highest mountains whilst I'm doing it.
30:05
Big mistake, but I had said I was going to do it, so no, I had to do it.
30:11
So a lot of the time hacking through the jungle, sometimes covering only a couple of miles in
30:16
a whole 12 to 14 hours of walking, hunting and gathering from the jungle.
30:22
We've come across coconut or mango or sugar cane, sometimes a little 10 wrecks here, which
30:26
are like rodents that burrow underneath the trees.
30:30
We got lost at the jungle, we face cyclones, seas in.
30:34
The rivers, a lot of the rivers in Madagascar are occupied by crocodiles and we had a lot
30:40
of river crossings, often having to build rafts using natural resources.
30:46
And of course, Gertrude, which I'm sure you're familiar about, the Gertrude story, maybe?
30:50
Well, I am, but let's go ahead and fill the rest of our listeners in as well.
30:54
Yeah, so in order to sum up the highest mountain in Madagascar, called Marimakotro, it's tradition
31:01
that you must carry yourself a white living cockroach in order to protect yourself from
31:07
the bad spirits and witches of the rainforest.
31:11
Right.
31:12
Marigassy local, say.
31:13
Yeah.
31:14
Bonkers.
31:15
Super logical.
31:16
Super logical, right?
31:17
Yeah.
31:18
But I'm all about respect.
31:19
You know, this is why I travel, I love meeting people, I love different cultures, traditions,
31:23
from all about respect in their culture.
31:26
So I did, I carried myself a white chicken called Gertrude, I do realize he was male
31:30
and I gave him a female name.
31:33
And Gertrude was with me for two and a half weeks, I think, two and a half weeks, I had
31:39
to feed him.
31:40
I had to give him water, he became fully domesticated, didn't really need to tie him up.
31:44
Sometimes he got lazy and he got tired, so I put him in top of the rucksack and his little
31:48
head would poke out and he'd be making all sorts of jirping noises, which really irritated
31:53
me most times when I was hungry.
31:55
Right.
31:56
Right.
31:57
He would sleep on top of my tent at night, which sounds nice, but there's loads of chicken
32:00
droppings the next morning, so you've got to clean your tent down.
32:04
And yeah, we set him free, we couldn't bring him back down off the mountains, I was hoping
32:09
he would follow me.
32:10
You know, he became a bit like a pet, he was like a little pet dog, but yeah, we left him
32:16
on the peak of Marima culture during the cyclone season, but hey, who knows, maybe he survived,
32:21
maybe he's king of the mountain right now.
32:23
It's certainly possible.
32:24
So Gertrude, if you're out there, man, where we're here for you, like let's get some team
32:28
Gertrude shirts, but one thing whenever you describe Madagascar, and this is the thing,
32:33
I always pick on like one little thing from all your excursions that are just especially
32:37
terrifying to me, but yeah, you just, you glazed over this.
32:41
So we got to go back the crocodiles in the rivers.
32:44
We're not talking about the little alligators at the zoos here in, in the United States.
32:49
We're talking about crocodiles.
32:51
We're talking about thousand pound freak beasts that are in the water.
32:54
I just got to know, when you were going through the rivers and you weren't on some sort of
32:58
a raft or even if you were, what was going through your head knowing that a dinosaur
33:03
could be lurking like somewhere nearby?
33:06
Oh, man, well, we would make, we would, you know, what was difficult is the area that
33:12
we took a lot of the time down south that were more local.
33:16
So we were able to gain local knowledge to know how to cross the rivers.
33:20
And there's always three ways to cross crocodile infested rivers and let's see if a cross where
33:24
there's, cross where there's locals, the locals will always guide you where, you know, and
33:30
show you the point where the crocs don't have their territory.
33:33
If there's no locals cross where there's white water or rapids, because again, the crocs
33:38
don't lie where there's fast flow of water.
33:40
The third option is cross where, you know, on a raft that we had to build from natural
33:47
resources, but sometimes these rivers were, I don't know, only a couple of, only a few
33:53
metres, you know, sometimes quite deep, sometimes up to your knees, maybe up to your waist.
33:58
But it's been four hours building a raft to cross such a narrow part, which just, oh,
34:07
we couldn't fathom that.
34:08
We were like, oh, we need to just try somehow to get across it.
34:11
So we would throw lots of rocks in the water.
34:13
We would try to scare.
34:14
If there's anything there, we'd try to scare off.
34:15
So we were always making sure that we were vigilant before crossing the river.
34:21
So I would cross with confidence knowing that there are no crocs, because I put my preparation
34:26
in and made sure both research, but, you know, there's always that fact that can you imagine
34:31
if we were wrong or we made mistakes people do?
34:34
Right.
34:35
I mean, that's my thought.
34:37
The thing is that you're sitting here talking to us now, so it obviously worked out.
34:41
But that is one of those things that people, again, people just can't fathom that they're
34:45
thinking about their hiking trip that they went on with their family in Arkansas in central
34:49
United States, that they're not thinking about the different things out there that can really
34:53
take you out.
34:54
I mean, where I live here in central Oklahoma, right in the middle of the U.S., really the
34:58
only thing I have to worry about is rattlesnakes.
35:00
And the interesting thing about rattlesnakes in my area is they've actually stopped rattling.
35:06
So just going on a short little diatribe.
35:08
Wow.
35:09
A lot of these rattlesnakes, what was happening is what these biologists think is that when
35:12
they would rattle, that would alert hawks or falcons or eagles to where they were and
35:18
then they were basically getting picked off.
35:21
And so there's a lot of places in southwest Oklahoma with the mountain refuge that we
35:25
have out there, the Wichita mountains, where people are getting bitten by rattlesnakes
35:29
that never rattle.
35:30
And I even had an office, I was walking a trail with a buddy and I looked down right before
35:37
my footsteps on the head of a rattlesnake.
35:40
And the rattlesnake didn't move, the rattlesnake didn't make noise.
35:43
I didn't even know it was a rattlesnake because it was coiled up.
35:45
And so I started like waving, you know, I'm far enough back from it, but I take off my
35:49
hat because I was going to like try to wave it off the trail and my sunglasses fell off
35:53
my hat.
35:54
Where do you think my sunglasses fell on nightmare, right on top of the damn snake.
36:00
And so the thing was after a second, he got bored with us and just kind of went on about
36:05
his way.
36:06
And so, I only tell that story to say that that's what I was hyper, yeah, it's crazy,
36:14
but that was the one thing I was hyper aware of.
36:16
But when you're doing these things, you have to be hyper aware of so many different things.
36:21
And hopefully that's a nice segue into the Yangtze River in China, which was kind of your
36:25
big daddy.
36:26
That was your big daddy mission.
36:28
That was the one that really, I would say got you the notoriety around the world that
36:31
you probably deserve for being the lunatic that you are.
36:34
But basically in August of 2019, you became the first, another world first, first person
36:40
ever walked the length of the Yangtze River in China.
36:42
And so for those of you guys that don't know that, that is the longest river in the world
36:46
to flow through a single country.
36:48
And you tracked 4,000 miles and it took you a year.
36:53
Yeah.
36:54
And so where did you get the idea to even do a mission like that that was going to take
36:59
a year of your life?
37:00
Yeah, mission Yangtze was, it was insane really, you know, I probably, it came to mind when
37:07
I first went, when I first left for my travels.
37:10
So bringing it back to North Wales, when I was 16, 17, I was working in the fishing
37:14
chip shop, I then worked as a waiter and then I then worked as a lifeguard to save the money
37:20
to make these travels happen in the first place.
37:23
I was cycling every day to and from work, I was smashing out about 240 hours a month.
37:28
And then eventually age 19, I set off in the first place I went was China.
37:33
And I spent two weeks in China, but mainly the East Coast, you know, I went to Beijing
37:36
down to Shanghai, across to Hong Kong, over to Macau to do the world types, bungee jump,
37:40
tick that off the bucket list.
37:43
And then when I looked back at the map of China, you know, I always knew how big China
37:46
was, but realized that I didn't really travel China.
37:50
It's huge, it's the longest, massive country.
37:54
And I was always fascinated about all its different provinces and diversities.
37:58
I knew that it would be such a cool place to explore.
38:03
So I knew one day that I would probably be back and I really wanted to take on an adventure.
38:07
I didn't know when and I didn't know what, but I believe that that probably stayed in
38:11
my mind ever since I was age 19.
38:15
And when I finished Madagascar, I was now looking for pretty much the biggest thing that I could
38:20
find that hadn't yet been done.
38:23
And the Yangtze for myself just stood out as that there's no solo unsupported rules.
38:30
There's no speed.
38:31
There's no nothing.
38:32
It's just genuine first.
38:33
Right there.
38:34
That hasn't yet been done.
38:36
It had been rafted, but no evidence to suggest that anyone had actually walked it.
38:40
And when I looked into the details of that, I realized that actually the difficult part
38:44
would be the logistics because China's a super sensitive place.
38:48
And it actually taught me two years, over two years of planning to build up the right connections
38:53
to build a solid team, which I currently have out there is actually bigger than my team
38:57
here in the UK had to partner with the government, with the police and authorities with 14 different
39:04
organizations out in China.
39:08
And that was enough to step the challenge up and think, wow, okay, even the planning
39:13
is difficult before I've even set foot in China.
39:17
And so I would say that was my attraction.
39:18
It was the beauty.
39:19
And just to showcase a side to China that might not have yet been seen properly.
39:24
It was just to explore the cultures, the traditions.
39:27
And like with all of my expeditions, I never do these trips.
39:30
Of course, for the first few years, I was just doing it just for the pure love and passion.
39:34
But when I realized that I could actually merge in and environment sustainability by diversity,
39:42
it's very close to my heart.
39:43
So with Mongolia, I was raising funds for the Red Cross.
39:46
I was raising awareness for the climate change and the effect that it has on the nomadic
39:51
way of life.
39:52
On the Madagascar, I was also, I pondered with the tourism minister.
39:55
I raised awareness for the Lima network, conservation help and to protect the unique biodiversity
40:00
of the island.
40:01
80% of plant life and wildlife found in Madagascar is found nowhere else in the world, which is
40:06
amazing.
40:07
And with China, it was the same again.
40:08
So the challenge was there, the reason, the motive, but I also wanted to help different
40:14
environmentalists and organizations and pointed out with the likes of the WWF on this course.
40:20
So once I had the plan in place and the challenge was there, it just now meant two years of really
40:26
studying this, building up the right team and going through it, attempting it.
40:29
Yeah.
40:30
And the thing about it is this was a trip that had a lot of issues as well, because obviously
40:35
you're spending a year of your life and it's not just on a happy trail.
40:38
The thing was is you ran into a lot of issues, but one of the things that you didn't run
40:42
into, but was a constant threat, was wolves and bears.
40:46
And the craziest thing about that is for any of the guys listening to this, I got a lot
40:50
of guys that listen to this in Colorado, Wyoming, different places in the US where they have
40:54
wolves and bears, but they can carry, they can carry a weapon, they can carry a rifle,
40:57
they can carry a machete, they can carry it, you know, TNT, they can carry something to
41:01
protect those from these animals, but you can't even have a pocket knife while you're
41:05
out there.
41:06
So I just want to know, like an honest question, and if you don't know, you don't know, what
41:10
was the plan if you ran into a wolf or a bear when you were out there and you didn't
41:16
have a weapon on you to protect yourself?
41:19
The plan was just to always stay as vigilant as we could be, and just to keep the bears
41:25
and wolves at bay, however, if we did come across any, yeah, you know, we didn't have
41:30
any weaponry, no knives, yeah, we had an air horn, we didn't even take spray because it's
41:38
so windy there on what's a better platter where the source of the ants is, it's over
41:41
5,100 metres, almost the same height as ever's base camp, and so there's always that worry
41:46
that it's going to spray back into your face, and to be honest, it only reaches about 10
41:51
feet anyway, so if you're within 10 feet of a bear, you don't really have that time to
41:55
get the spray, whatever it is out.
41:58
So yeah, I guess numbers and sticking with each other, and that's why I'd always want
42:01
to travel and walk with someone and resting up at the local communities because, you know,
42:07
they offer shelter, they offer protection, but of course, you know, the biggest challenge
42:12
of this expedition was possibly the people that joined me, not that they were the challenge,
42:17
but I found that you can prepare so much mentally and physically for yourself, but you can't
42:24
train for other people joining, and so the difficulty was having to evacuate these people
42:31
and get them home safely if anything went wrong, like I had people leave because they
42:35
were in fear of the bears and the wolves, because the locals would show us all sorts
42:40
of scary photos and videos, you know, I sort of went out there with the healthy mindset,
42:45
like leave the bears alone, and the bears will leave you alone, but the locals were telling
42:48
us otherwise, they were saying that the bears would come off the mountains because it's
42:51
too cold, it's breaking into that season, into winter season, and they're looking for
42:56
calories before they go into hibernation, and they were there saying that you're just walking
43:00
calories, and if you don't believe me, look at this video and look at this video, I was
43:04
like no, stop showing me, I'm already scared, so no, it was serious, it was scary.
43:11
Yeah, that's the one thing is just not being able to take care of yourself if something
43:17
were to happen right in your face, but the message here, and I think it's important
43:20
for everybody listening to this, is to be prepared beforehand, because whenever you
43:25
startle the bear, when you come around the corner and he didn't see you and you didn't
43:28
see him at that point, it's too late, it's way too late at that point, like your food,
43:33
like you were just part of his morning routine at that point, but I think that's really important
43:37
to just remind guys to be very prepared in those situations.
43:41
Yeah, I know it's the biggest attacks, especially in Tibet, what I heard is like, it's a bets
43:47
they'll go out for work, they'll come around a tree or go on top of a hill and boom, you'll
43:52
shop the bear, the bear will panic and it'll just attack you.
43:56
Well the thing is, at that point, you're in his backyard, and you wouldn't want someone
44:01
just walking into your backyard, it's just like you have to have a healthy reverence
44:04
for an animal like that, and one thing about you, Ash, and if you guys haven't figured
44:09
this out by now, you are an incredibly optimistic and thankful and positive guy, you try to
44:15
figure things out, you try to just make things happen, and you've had a lot of opportunities
44:20
to say positive things about China, and you've taken those opportunities to say the things
44:24
that you like about China, but China, as a country, has a history, has a brutal authoritarian
44:32
atheistic dictatorship, especially now, but the thing I want to know about from you since
44:37
you spent a lot of time in country, what are your thoughts on China as a country, as opposed
44:43
to China as a people, because obviously you have a tremendous, almost romantic view of
44:49
the Chinese people, and it's well worn because of how well they took care of you on your
44:54
mission Yangtze, but what are your thoughts on China as a country?
44:58
As a country, as in, are you talking now, it's diversity?
45:02
No, not necessarily, it's diversity, but like, so as a, for instance, we're recording this
45:07
right now in the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic, you know, with the virus coming out of Wuhan,
45:13
we've seen some pretty horrific things coming out about what China has done, they have literally
45:18
barricaded people in their apartments, there are people that have starved to death, there
45:22
are doctors that have been disappeared, some of the doctors that were trying to get the
45:25
word out about the virus, it just kind of shows us some of the brutal nature of a dictatorial
45:31
government and authoritarian government like China, that these Chinese people that you love
45:35
so much are under.
45:36
So have you spent much time thinking about kind of what, what China as a country is versus
45:41
China as a group of people?
45:43
Yeah, and there's no denying that it can't be incredibly harsh during certain times,
45:48
especially with what went on with COVID-19, for sure.
45:53
And I do have a lot of friends out there, I was based in Wuhan, actually where the virus
45:58
kick started for three weeks and I've got good friends, so I was checking in with them
46:03
quite often, and it's crazy what you see on the news compared to, you know, the friends
46:08
that I was writing who had been living in the city centre, it was like, yeah, all cool
46:12
here man, just told to stay indoors, you know, I was once a day for shopping.
46:16
And so, like the Chinese almost seem super chilled, not all of them, of course, but maybe
46:22
the ones that I mixed with just seemed like super chilled, like yeah, it is what it is,
46:26
just stay indoors, protect everyone and you know, they didn't seem to have anything negative
46:32
to say, but I guess at the same time, in a population of 1.4 billion people, you've just
46:39
got to act so fast and sometimes just so harshly, in order to nip it in the bud, I imagine,
46:48
you know, it must be, it must be dead, I can't imagine, you know, 1.4 billion people, you
46:53
know, yeah, the UK, we should have, we should have learned really from China's mistaken,
46:58
adapted well in advance, but now all the numbers are rising and we're being hit hard
47:03
here.
47:04
Yeah, it's a tough subject matter and there's, there's, you know, we could talk for the
47:10
rest of the day on things that are going on in that country, that is the one thing that
47:13
concerns me, but the thing that I do like about what, what you've done, and you mentioned
47:18
it just just a little while ago, is you got to display some of the beautiful things about
47:22
China that people would never get to see, because for most of the world, China is just
47:27
this big communist country on the map, like they don't know anything about it, they only
47:32
know about Beijing, they only know about, you know, last time the the Olympics were there,
47:37
and again, just the population to be that size, there's going to be a lot of diversity.
47:42
Obviously you've talked about this before, just being able to communicate with people,
47:46
like if you were a Spanish speaking person, you knew no English, but you knew you were
47:50
going to be spending a year in the United States, you can learn basic English and English
47:54
in Oklahoma and English in Maine is the same, we might have, we might call some things differently,
48:00
but for you, talk about what it was like trying to communicate with people when, you know,
48:04
you knew some basic Mandarin, but there's hundreds if not thousands of different dialects.
48:09
Yeah, it was so difficult, and I only had what did I have, probably not even a month's worth
48:14
of lessons of Chinese lessons and straight away this towards source, it's near Tibet,
48:21
so Qinghai provinces is very influenced by Tibet, and so they were speaking obviously
48:28
to better, and you know, I just wasn't able to develop my Mandarin because I was learning
48:33
all of these different dialects, and sometimes I couldn't communicate, and it was just so
48:38
vastly different, it was insane, but luckily, you know, I think when they saw this guy who's
48:46
looking pretty sunburned, looking pretty knackered, looking starving, looking skinny, looking thirsty,
48:51
you know, and then just approaching with a big smile, they would always be very welcoming,
48:57
you know, they'd bite his inside, they'd feed me up, shelter, a lot, you know, sometimes
49:01
even in the cities, when I'd rock up in the cities, and the authorities wouldn't allow
49:05
me to camp out, so I'd stay in a hotel, of course, and again, you know, they would sometimes
49:11
just not charge me, they'd be like, oh, we saw you on the news or whatever, we wish you
49:15
the best on your journey, so it is amazing, and it's a shame that China do get a lot of
49:20
state because, you know, from what I've experienced, the locals, and a good example is my friend
49:27
Martin who joined me, and you sort of had this idea that China was suppressed, of course,
49:32
because of, you know, they don't have Google, they don't have Facebook, they don't have
49:36
any of these platforms that sort of out of touch, and then he came there, he saw like
49:40
this strong sense of community, everyone laughing, smiling, even old people, aged 1890, out in
49:45
the street dancing, they got the speakers out on the go, and it's just a pleasant place
49:50
to be for sure, and they were just so welcoming, and of course they have their own social media
49:55
platforms, and I was actually on those social media platforms, so I was probably juggling
49:59
about 14 different social media platforms between China and the Western world, and everything's
50:06
just a little bit more tamed down on the Chinese social media, everything's made with a little
50:12
bit more humour, you know, sometimes it's great, sometimes it's cringe worthy, but it's one
50:17
of those, it is what it is, you know, not as negative, I guess sometimes I wish the news
50:21
here would be a little bit more lighthearted instead of so down and negative, but there
50:26
we go, but yeah, it is a shame they get a lot of stick, but the people were just amazing,
50:32
always inviting me inside, but that language, Barry, it was tough, but luckily for Mongolian
50:36
Madagascar, you know, and it's all in his hand gestures, isn't it hand gestures, smiling,
50:42
just trying your best to communicate without the language, right, exactly, I mean, point
50:48
to your mouth, and they probably can guess it, you're hungry or thirsty at the end of
50:53
the day. One of the things I really liked about your mission Yangtze story is, or I guess
50:58
it made me think it made me ponder a lot, is that you mentioned when you crossed the
51:03
finish line on this trip, that you didn't feel anything, that you felt that maybe you
51:09
had over visualized what completing this mission was going to be like. And are you familiar
51:15
with Deon Sanders by chance? I'm not know. Okay, so Deon Sanders is an American athlete,
51:23
he's been long since retired, but he is one of the very few players to be a professional
51:28
at two major league sports at the same time, he was a major league baseball player, while
51:32
at the same time being an NFL football player, American football player. Oh, wow. And so one
51:37
of the greatest gifted athletes that we've ever seen, incredibly hockey guy, incredibly
51:41
flashy. But anyway, he wins a Super Bowl. I'm pretty sure it's with the Dallas Cowboys
51:45
is. So he wins a Super Bowl. It's that is the upper echelon. There's nothing bigger
51:50
that you can win in the world. And he said when he was done at the locker room, when he
51:55
was done celebrating, when he was done with the champagne, he gets back to his room, he
52:00
gets back to his hotel room. And he said he was more empty than he had ever been in his
52:05
entire life. And it was because he had put his entire life's work into the accomplishment
52:11
of being this world renowned athlete and becoming a champion and an NFL champion. And his team
52:17
wins a Super Bowl and he becomes the NFL champion. And that night, he realized that there was
52:22
something massive missing from his life. And for him, he realized that it was Jesus, he
52:27
was missing, he was missing out on God and on who Jesus was in his life. And well, at
52:33
that moment became became a Christian and kind of embraced the spiritual side of life
52:38
because he felt that emptiness. What I'm curious about for you is because you passed over that
52:43
in the Joe Rogan experience and you just mentioned it and Joe didn't really ask you a follow up.
52:47
But as a follow up, how have you looked back on that moment of completing such a crazy
52:53
impressive mission only to feel maybe a little empty on the back end?
52:58
Um, you know, I wouldn't use the word empty, probably. I would, what would I say? I would
53:05
I would say is because I believed myself so much and all of the different challenges
53:11
like before the first four months, I had lost 10 members of the 16 different individuals
53:16
that joined me during different sections. You know, they were the bears, they were the
53:20
wolves, they were the landslides. There were people going home left, right and center.
53:23
So that obviously went into my subconscious and I was started to worry whether I would
53:27
make it to the end but through these difficult times, there wasn't a day that I couldn't
53:33
see myself crossing that finish line. You know, I was just so focused, so disciplined
53:39
in making it to that finish that by the time that I had got there, as amazing as it was,
53:47
it wasn't kind of like Usain Bolt running 100 meters, he sort of finds out. So from the
53:54
start line to the finish, I don't know how I forgot what his record is, but within under
53:59
10 seconds, he has the result, whereas my results different, it's over the space of
54:06
three years that I'm working towards this goal. So when I do cross it, rather than being,
54:12
Oh my God, I can't believe I crossed the finish line. It's, you know, it's about damn time.
54:17
I got right. It's right. It's like, you know, and especially Shanghai, where the Yangtze
54:23
pulls out into the East China Sea, I had to shelter up because the day that I was supposed
54:27
to finish, we got hit by Storm Leukemia. So it was this big storm. And actually, maybe
54:33
some of my hype was, was, or some of my excitement was squashed just a little bit because I had
54:39
always visioned that day for the past two weeks. I was like, yeah, that's the day that I'm aiming
54:43
for, we built up, people were joining the press were going to be there and whatnot and my family
54:49
would join in. But now the storm hit. So we all had to rest up. So it was one of those.
54:54
I've kind of finished because I've only got 15 miles left, but I've not finished until I've
55:00
covered those 15 miles. So I had to wait for two days and then I cracked on. So when I crossed
55:05
the finish line, that's why I was a little bit like, [inaudible] that storm or whatever, you know.
55:10
But then after that, I was just so productive. I had to cancel my, my celebration party
55:16
because it was crazy. I was up till 3am with the news. Again, straight after I went on an Asia
55:23
tour, going to Korea, Singapore, across China, even Myanmar. And so I didn't feel empty just because
55:29
I was so busy afterwards, even busier in fact. But maybe if there was nothing planned after,
55:36
and I would have been sat there and it was just quiet, then I don't know what I would feel. But
55:41
fortunately, it was just, it just went mental. It was, it was nonstop. So I didn't really have time
55:47
to reflect as to what just happened. Because I had to concentrate on the next goal that I was
55:52
working on. Well, I think that dovetails nicely. So that wraps up some of the missions. Now I want
55:57
to just kind of talk about some of the excursions and the things that you experienced overall. And
56:01
one of the things is, you know, people see, you know, the picture on the cover of your book and
56:05
they see the stuff on your Instagram. And it's all this really, really sexy looking stuff.
56:09
But the problem is, is with most of what you were doing, you spent a lot of time doing really
56:14
non sexy stuff, you were just walking, you were just walking and traversing and watching your step
56:19
and and making sure you were hydrated and doing all those things. What did you do with that silence?
56:25
Because a lot of these times you weren't having conversations with people, there weren't people
56:29
with you. But on those days on any one of your excursions, when you did have that quiet time
56:34
where you could reflect where you could almost just hear your body working, you know, what was
56:40
that like? What did you do with that time? Yeah, it's interesting you say that because I think even
56:45
some people that joined me, because I opened it up to the public, I wanted it to be one of the
56:49
world's most interactive world firsts. And I think a lot of people who joined me were also
56:55
hit by that. They see the social media. But then when they joined me, they're like, well, there's
56:59
that shock of capture, that shock of realization that actually this is so much harder than it looks
57:05
on than that photo looked on on Instagram or whatnot, you know, because you have to put in the places
57:10
no one's going to walk it for you. You've got to you've got to walk and when you're faced with the
57:14
threat of bears or wolves, no one's going to take you away. You've got to realize how you've got to
57:19
overcome it. Only faced with a landslide and then it detours you when you've got to spend an extra
57:24
five days working your way around this cliff face or whatnot. These are just all challenges
57:29
that sink into your mind that, you know, you don't really think about it's the slug. It's the
57:35
it's the graft. It's the real grind of an expedition that can be tedious. It can be boring. It can be
57:41
extremely lonely at times. And that you know, that was tough with Mongolia, the loneliness.
57:47
And that's where I faced the fact that there's no such thing as silence when I started to hear my
57:53
body ticking over because I was at such a point of silence. There was nothing other than my body
57:58
functioning, which brings true to my logistics manager telling me you'll realize that there's
58:03
no such thing as silence. So some days I would just listen to music. Some days I would just
58:07
soak it all up and take it in other days. I would just break it down and hate the days and think,
58:13
right? Just crack on through it. Tomorrow is another day. A big saying of mine. Tomorrow
58:17
is another day. Don't focus too much on the [inaudible] times that happened today. Let's hope they don't
58:22
happen again tomorrow. And if they do happen again tomorrow, let's just keep saying tomorrow
58:26
is another day. Right. Right. Well, I mean, that's the thing is you've got to have some sort of
58:30
internal dialogue while these things are going on, because and at the same time, I'm sure there
58:35
were stretches of walks where it was completely safe to have headphones and be listening to music.
58:39
Yeah, exactly. There's other times where you need to be here and what's going on around you. So
58:43
you got to be aware at those different times. And on several, and you mentioned some of these
58:48
times, but with several of your missions, there were different points where you were actually close
58:52
to death and not like your buddy that says, Oh, man, I was driving and I almost died. You didn't
58:57
almost die. You hit a curve, you loser, but like you were really, really close to death at certain
59:02
points. And in those moments, did the thought ever enter your mind that man, I regret doing this.
59:09
I regret making this decision to come on this trek to do all the things I'm doing because I'm so
59:14
close to death. I mean, what was going through your mind at those moments? Yeah, I'd say possibly
59:19
one of the worst ones was maybe the Gobi desert when I was pulling the trailer, you know, weeks
59:25
went by, I was suffering with dehydration, Slipland's a heat exhaustion, well on my way to heat stroke,
59:30
which is usually fatal. It was 100 degrees Fahrenheit plus, there was no breeze, there was no shelter,
59:37
I was just out there in the desert. And I could almost feel my organs drying up. The days went on
59:43
and I got worse and in much more agony. And at my worst point, I still had a good four days left
59:49
to the next community, because one of the previous wells was dry. So I was now rationing my last
59:54
remaining dribbles of water, if you like. And I was just in so much pain, the only shelter that I
1:00:00
could find was underneath my trailer. So sometimes I'd lie underneath my trailer. I could only fit
1:00:05
the top half of my body underneath. And my legs would stick out and it felt like they were melting.
1:00:09
And sometimes I'd stay under there for an hour at a time. And it was possibly at that point that
1:00:16
I realized, you know, if I don't keep getting up and pushing on, I'm going to die out here in
1:00:20
the Gobi desert, it was that harsh reality of, oh [inaudible], you know, this is happening. What I
1:00:26
visualised has been the worst case, the worst case has now taken place because that's a painful
1:00:30
and slow death. Well, all fast, depending on the body type, people can die super fast of heat stroke
1:00:36
within hours or they can drag out. And for myself, I don't know, I had I missed the point of backup,
1:00:44
as I was saying, I've got four days to wait for my logistics manager to get to me. And then another
1:00:48
day or two to get me out, let's say six days or four days, guaranteed of walking. And I definitely
1:00:54
get there if I last the four days. But I couldn't focus on feeling sorry for myself or all regretting.
1:01:03
I feel if you're in such a serious scenario, there's no time for that. My only option was to survive.
1:01:11
And I decided to actually break my goals down. I've always broken my goals down into little
1:01:15
sections. But this is a good example of how it saved my life. Although I couldn't visualise the
1:01:20
four days, I couldn't picture walking those four days in such agony, I could picture 100 metres,
1:01:25
you know, I could see 100 metres ahead of me. So I focused on walking 100 metres because that's
1:01:31
all I could manage, especially with the trailer pulling it behind me, before resting underneath.
1:01:35
And I would allow myself five minutes. So I effectively, by breaking my goals down and setting myself
1:01:43
a routine in the worst state imaginable, I was ticking off those 100 metres sections. And by
1:01:49
staying disciplined because I wasn't motivated, I didn't want to be there. But I didn't regret
1:01:53
the decision of being there. I knew that this could potentially happen. And now it's happened,
1:01:58
I need to focus on overcoming it. Like I practiced in the training, like I visualised when I was
1:02:03
when I was on the grind back in Wales. And effectively, 100 metres, five minutes resting,
1:02:09
100 metres, five minutes resting for four days, I did make it to that community. It's in a bad
1:02:14
state. You know, my urine was black pretty much, it took me eight days to recover. But I made it.
1:02:20
And so at that point of almost staring death in the face, if you like, I was just all about
1:02:27
trying to stay positive, or trying to break my goals down, or just trying to visualise
1:02:32
only the outcome, which is to survive. And nothing else. I would let nothing, no emotions,
1:02:38
no thinking about my mum or my dad. I just couldn't, I was just at night time when I was in my tent,
1:02:44
I would of course. But at the same time, I would just drift off to sleep because I was
1:02:49
so exhausted. And then the next day was another day. So I didn't spend so much time thinking,
1:02:55
I just spent my time trying to survive. That's didn't, if that makes sense.
1:03:00
It absolutely makes sense. It's a story of resilience. And we talk about that all the time,
1:03:04
and we'll get more into, you know, just what being spiritually, mentally, physically resilient is.
1:03:09
But I mean, one of the big things for you and guys that have read a lot of books about like Navy
1:03:13
Seals or things like that, a lot of those guys when they're trying to get through buds, which is
1:03:17
kind of the week of, or that six months of training, and then they have Hell Week, which is basically
1:03:22
torture for a week. The thing is, is they knew that they had to feed you like, as a soldier going
1:03:28
through that, you know that they have to feed you three times a day. And so in between breakfast
1:03:33
and lunch, it's not, oh my gosh, how many pushups do we need to do? Oh my gosh, how many times do
1:03:37
we need to swim out to the buoy and back? It was, I just need to make it to lunch. And so that's
1:03:42
kind of same for you. It's like, I need to make it at the, to the end of this 100 meters, and then
1:03:46
I can keep going. And yeah, the cool thing for you is, and you've, you mentioned this before, is
1:03:52
on your journeys, you, especially the one along the Yangtze, you were highly dependent on villages
1:03:58
and on people. And even in this scenario, you just described on getting to that village,
1:04:03
getting to those people, to, to kind of give you sustenance and to help you out. Why were you so
1:04:09
certain going into these missions or going into these, these trips that when you would get to
1:04:15
these villages, why were you so certain that one, the people would even be there in that too,
1:04:19
they would be willing to help you out? Yeah, great question. I knew 100% from breaking
1:04:25
the expedition down from the 78 days of Mongolia that let take me, because a lot of different experts
1:04:30
and Mongolian adventures as well were saying it was impossible. What I decided to do with my logistics
1:04:35
manager in the Royal Geographic Society was break it down and look at every single day
1:04:40
so that we could find that impossible day. And we couldn't find that impossible day. Every day
1:04:45
was possible. And this community, sometimes there were communities that would, that would flag,
1:04:51
that would sort of disappear. But this community that I was trying to get to after the four days
1:04:55
was a confirmed community. We would have unconfirmed communities,
1:04:59
which I would pack more water, fill up my tank a little bit more for unconfirmed communities,
1:05:04
or they were confirmed. And this one was a confirm. So I knew 100% that there were people there.
1:05:11
But yet again, so to help me out, you know, it's never, it's never really crossed my mind that
1:05:17
the locals won't help me out. And maybe that's because I set off on my travels at such a young age,
1:05:22
you know, age 19. And I don't really have many bad stories or experiences of the locals apart
1:05:30
from Madagascar itself, you know, the bandits held their gunpoint. But that was like the military,
1:05:37
that was the bandits, but the locals were there during that time with the military.
1:05:42
And they heard, you know, rumors spread, stories spread fast and they actually felt really bad.
1:05:47
And even then the Madagascar took us in, it supplied us, you know, they even put a lock on the door
1:05:51
because there were so many kids excited that we were there. But we had just been from such a
1:05:56
stressful time, they padlocked us in that room so that the kids couldn't get in, you know, so that
1:06:01
they could allow us to have our own space, which was amazing. So with Mongolia, it never crossed my
1:06:06
mind that these locals wouldn't help just through experience of how amazing they are and how giving
1:06:12
in. With Mongolia, it just seemed to be mainly the females as well, mainly the ladies that were
1:06:18
so much more helpful. And all of my expeditions now, if I need help, I do naturally approach
1:06:25
the females more than the males, because the males see you as a bit of a, you know, they'll see that
1:06:31
trailer, they'll be feeling your biceps, they'll be, maybe they'll be drunk, especially Mongolia,
1:06:36
they like their Russian vodka. And when you're exhausted, you know, close to tears and motionally
1:06:41
spiritually broken, that's the last thing you need. But the ladies, they almost feel your pain.
1:06:47
Sure, yeah. They share it, you know, they flip into mothering mode effectively, don't they?
1:06:51
Absolutely. And they invite you inside, they give you water, it's almost they,
1:06:55
they're instinct, they know what you need, they know what you're looking for. So they've just
1:07:00
been absolutely incredible. So, and they were like that when I rocked up in that community,
1:07:04
I was almost collapsing. And they helped, you know, they set up a bed for me, drank me inside and
1:07:11
they helped me out during that time that I needed it most.
1:07:14
Well, you mentioned this before, but the thing is with most of these communities is you were
1:07:21
fully prepared to compensate them for helping you to give them money or give them something
1:07:27
that's made for them to give you provisions in food and water. And most of them wouldn't let you
1:07:32
do that. Like, it kind of take us through what, what was that like, you know, having these people
1:07:37
basically sustain your life and then say, no, no, no, no, we don't want anything from you.
1:07:41
Yeah, it was crazy. It was, it was mental and I would always leave with just such a high spirit,
1:07:49
not the fact that I didn't spend money because I wasn't asked about that, the fact that they were
1:07:54
genuine when they were helping me, you know. In Madagascar, I had times down south where,
1:08:01
you know, it's really brutal down Madagascar. They really suffer, suffer to survive, you
1:08:05
know, they really struggle. And so they'll try find a way, you're like an ATM machine,
1:08:09
they will try to find a way to get money. Even if you camp an out in complete wilderness,
1:08:13
the locals will rock up and say, this is my forest and you must pay me to stay here.
1:08:17
But the further north I got, the more generous they became, they weren't suffering as much,
1:08:22
of course, so they're not as desperate. And again, you know, with China and with Mongolia,
1:08:27
I experienced this a lot where they just didn't want the money. They almost took a fence to it,
1:08:33
but in a nice way, knowing that I don't mean any offense by it. So they would look at my money
1:08:38
and they would like sort of laugh, shake their, shake their head, shake their hand, push it back
1:08:43
into my pocket and, you know, then the community stopped giggling and I'm just like, wow, they really,
1:08:48
they are really not bothered. They just want to do that. They did did. And I did learn from my
1:08:54
logistics manager, who's Mongolian, called Jenny, that when they see a guy out in the elements,
1:09:00
they know how extreme their country is, how harsh the Gobi does it is. So when they see another person,
1:09:06
what they really want to do is to help out during his or her journey. And they would just like that.
1:09:12
It was always surreal, to be honest, it was always surreal, but I got used to it. I would always try
1:09:16
to give them something, whether it was coloring crayons for the kids, paper and pens and they
1:09:20
could write. So I did stock up on on stuff with my duffel bag and I was counting on my trailer,
1:09:25
just just to give back, you know, but sometimes they just weren't interested, just happy to help.
1:09:30
That's such a cool story about just kind of the, the positive aspects of the human spirit that
1:09:35
you have those people that just that's their desire. It's their default mechanism is to try and help
1:09:39
you out. Now, for yeah, looking back on Mongolia and Madagascar and Mission Yangtze, out of those
1:09:46
three big excursions, those three big missions, what are some of the the bigger things, I guess,
1:09:51
that you would do differently in terms of preparation, because obviously you went through it and some
1:09:56
of it's like, well, I prepared all I could prepare, but now this is facing me, I got to deal with it.
1:10:00
What were some things that you would change about your prep? Well, now with the finance,
1:10:07
now I'm not struggling. I would have myself a proper trailer that didn't weigh 40 kilograms,
1:10:14
you know, I'd find something that was just as robust, because my old steel is really robust.
1:10:18
The problem is going with a carbon fiber trailer, it could potentially break. But yeah, the trailer,
1:10:24
I would change maybe more water, maybe not. I don't know. I say more water, but so if I had
1:10:29
more water in that stint in the Gobi Desert, would, would I have been able to continue with the trailer?
1:10:34
Because now the trailer would be too heavy for me to physically pull because I was in such agony.
1:10:38
It's one of those where I, I wouldn't change anything, but I think what, whatever happened
1:10:44
needed to happen, and what I love is that saying, you know, what, you know, what matters more than
1:10:49
the mistakes you make is what you're able to learn from them. Fortunately, I've never been dehydrated
1:10:55
since, or not to that extreme, since Mongolia. With Madagascar, you know, I've always been
1:11:04
breaking the goals down, so being lost in the jungle, we started section out into 50 meters,
1:11:08
and that was with the team. So I was more team reliant on that because there was a guide with me.
1:11:12
Malaria, obviously that's a scare, but I did do my best to protect myself from that. I don't think
1:11:20
I could have done any better. And China, China, I learned a lot, and with China, I learned that
1:11:28
don't let anyone allow you to, because I had lots of people say, you know, I'm from the military,
1:11:34
I'll be able to join you, no problem. And I would instantly say, Oh, okay, you know, that's awesome,
1:11:38
come and join me. But their trainer wouldn't be as on form, and they would end up joining me
1:11:44
to be sent home only a couple of days later. And that would port myself at jeopardy. That
1:11:49
would put them at jeopardy, they've got a family at home, you know. And so I would be a little bit
1:11:54
more strict with who I allow on my expeditions now, because sometimes I forget just how much I
1:11:59
prepare and how much I train. And so when someone sort of says, Oh, yeah, I'll be a good, good team
1:12:05
partner for you. Let me join. Sometimes I'm a little bit too willing to say, yeah, sure, come
1:12:09
and join. But then it turns up being a near death. So that's what I learned is just we're all
1:12:16
different on the rule and the training and preparation. It needs to be taken serious for sure.
1:12:22
Well, you need to learn how to be a mean guy, because it doesn't sound like you have any mean
1:12:26
in you. So you just need to tell these people's like, look, fatty, you can't come with me on this
1:12:29
expedition. You're probably going to die. Yeah, we'll work on a work on getting you a manager.
1:12:35
That's a jerk. But just kind of get into some some random questions now, just related to a
1:12:40
bunch of different things. Sure. There's there's gotta be expeditions that really are impossible.
1:12:46
Now you've done three things that were considered or that that weren't considered that were actual
1:12:51
world first that we have no recorded history of anyone doing those things. But in your opinion,
1:12:56
if you had to think about it, what expeditions really are impossible?
1:13:01
Now that that haven't been done with that have been done in the past.
1:13:06
No, no, I'm just talking about if you had to go in your wildest dream, obviously,
1:13:10
you can't walk to the moon or something ridiculous like that. But like, what are what are expeditions
1:13:15
that maybe people have have talked about or even throughout there in just kind of like a fiction
1:13:19
scenario that really as an expert in this area, it's just not possible to do x.
1:13:25
Great question. It's a great question. I from the top of my head, I can't I can't think of an
1:13:35
expedition. That is there's just always there's always a way someone will always find a way as long
1:13:42
as it's on maybe maybe to do with the underwater world. Maybe there's certain
1:13:50
explorations in the water world that just aren't possible just yet. Maybe that's due to technology
1:13:58
purposes. But in terms of physical feats on land, I think humans have just done so much.
1:14:05
Something that strikes me that I don't believe has been done. It's definitely not impossible,
1:14:11
but it's a heck of a challenge. It's the Congo River. There's something about that that
1:14:16
absolutely screams suicide death danger. You know, but again, I think between us on the podcast,
1:14:28
I was actually before the Yangtze. I was planning to walk the Congo. It was only that the Yangtze
1:14:35
made more business sense because I was looking to develop the brand and turn it from a hobby
1:14:41
more into a career that China as a market made much more sense than Africa as a market. So I
1:14:48
pursued the Yangtze. But I know I feel that I'm pursuing a different area where the expeditions
1:14:55
won't be as long, but hopefully just as ambitious, just as extreme, but more interactive and have
1:15:01
a lot of the environmental angle as well, where we're creating hopefully TV shows.
1:15:06
My mission, the anti-documentary, it still seems to be the least, but the Congo I wouldn't write
1:15:12
off. Maybe one day, who knows? If anyone's listening, the Congo would be a cool one.
1:15:18
It would be a cool one, but what's funny is as soon as you said the word Congo, the first word
1:15:23
that came to my head was death. And so that it's interesting that I was the first thing you thought
1:15:27
as well. But with that in mind, you've mentioned the Congo and everyone's favorite thing to ask
1:15:32
Ash Dykes is what's the next mission? I don't care about the next mission. I want to know the next
1:15:37
next mission. What is the mission after the mission, the one that's just like a twinkle in your brain
1:15:43
that you're just barely even thinking about? What's out there on the periphery for you?
1:15:46
Yeah. Well, yeah, I'm always about planning one step ahead of myself. You know, when I was
1:15:54
tracking Mongolia, I already planned out Madagascar in my head. When I was before I attempted Madagascar,
1:16:00
mission Yangtze was always in my head. But I've always finished my expeditions, my previous expeditions
1:16:07
sort of rearing to get onto the next one. It's only recently that I've been
1:16:12
smarter, you know, I've been a little bit panning it out more carefully.
1:16:17
We're rearing to go for the next one, but we have a good eight to 10 different ideas.
1:16:25
I've got a team now in LA. I'm repped by WME. We're currently in discussions with various TV
1:16:32
channels about extreme adventures, but shorter ones in different countries mixing it up. And I
1:16:39
do believe that's where my passion is now, where instead of 352 days brute mission, I can get lots
1:16:47
of different missions, lots of diversities, lots of beautiful parts of different corners of the
1:16:52
world within that one year that it would take me to do one adventure. If that makes sense,
1:16:58
and share it with the masses rather than just on the social media. So we've got big plans. It
1:17:03
feels like I'm just getting started. I'm still young in this industry of 29. Yeah, man, it's
1:17:10
exciting. I wish I could say more. I can't just yet, but we are planning some very big and ambitious
1:17:15
things. That's for sure. Well, if you want to make any announcements, it's just me and you here,
1:17:19
like no one else is going to listen to this. It couldn't possibly turn out badly for you.
1:17:25
But one thing that I do feel like I need to ask is, you know, people look at what you do. They
1:17:31
look at the stuff on Instagram, they go to your website, they read your book, and they're like,
1:17:33
Oh my gosh, this stuff is really, really impressive. This is really extreme. So I want to know from
1:17:38
your perspective, through your eyes, what accomplishments have you seen other people pull off that you
1:17:44
consider to be extreme? That impresses you. Oh, so many months, so many, you know, people are
1:17:51
amazing and they never cease to amaze me, achievements being accomplished nowadays and in the past.
1:17:56
So everything, not just in the exploring world, but in the athletic world as well, in the business
1:18:03
world, the corporate world, I think we're just rocketed on. We were going sky high and, you know,
1:18:09
humanity often is, it gets a lot of state, doesn't it? You know, we've done some bad things as well.
1:18:14
We've made some big mistakes, but, you know, we're still relatively young in this universe,
1:18:19
and we're still learning, we're still developing. But that's what I love as well, especially about
1:18:24
traveling is it can be the untold stories that get you the most. You know, that's why I love,
1:18:30
when I finish my adventures, I can never let this get to my head. It will never get to my head,
1:18:35
because I know that much greater, bigger things have been achieved. But even the people that I meet
1:18:39
in these communities and the lessons that they've taught me and the stories that they've told me,
1:18:45
I can, I'm always humbled, you know, because I do know that every single individual has
1:18:50
their own lessons to teach and has their own story to tell. And no one's as more impressive
1:18:56
than the next person's, you know, it's just your unique perspective, your unique story. So
1:19:01
that's what I love about talking to different people. And that's what I love about travel
1:19:04
and adventure. It puts me right out there to some wild stories, just to meet some of the
1:19:10
wildest people as well. You know, it's, it's great. So I am impressed by many, many achievements,
1:19:15
big and small. It doesn't matter. When you see someone pull off one of these things,
1:19:20
it's almost like a contagion. I was reading this book called Unbreakable by a retired Navy Seal,
1:19:25
Tom Shea. And he talked about this, this mission, which was just basically, not a mission, but he
1:19:30
was just basically talking about this challenge to walk for 24 hours. And this is a retired Navy
1:19:35
Seal sniper. I mean, he's done some of the most difficult things on the planet. I think he said
1:19:39
in his book, it took him three or four attempts to just walk for 24 hours. And you know, you could,
1:19:45
you could take a break to go to the bathroom and eat and stuff like that. But that's just been a
1:19:48
contagion in my head. But you see people do these, you know, they set a world record for pull ups,
1:19:53
or they, they set a world record for the amount of miles you could run in 24 hours. And it just,
1:19:58
it's a contagion. It stays in your brain and sticks with you. And it makes you think about what's
1:20:02
possible, you know? Yeah, yeah, it does. And you know, that there's that message as well that I
1:20:07
really love to give is that if I can do it, you can do it too. I often am mistaken. A lot of people
1:20:13
are sort of, yeah, but it's all right for him. He was, you know, coming from a wealthy background.
1:20:18
Nope. He comes from, you know, he's well educated. So no, no university degree in that terms.
1:20:25
It's just a case of making mistakes, setting my goals, you know, and sometimes the big goal can
1:20:31
be so daunting that I have broken that big goal down into lots of little chunks. And that's something
1:20:36
that I believe everyone can relate to, you know, no matter what you're facing, what you're going
1:20:41
through, I've had people say that it's not possible. And it doesn't matter if no one else sees it for
1:20:45
you, you know, what's important is if you can see it for yourself, stay on track. And that's the sort
1:20:50
of message that I like to give out, not necessarily talk about my time in the jungle or my time,
1:20:55
across the desert, but how they can relate because we all do kind of face our own kind of jungle or
1:21:01
desert in our own day to day life. And hopefully given off some lessons that I learned that helped
1:21:08
me out in the extremes that can help them, whether it's the corporate world or the education world
1:21:13
or whatever that might be. So, you know, we're all going through some crazy things and some
1:21:18
great things just stick at it, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. And that's the thing is it's just,
1:21:23
you put something out in front of you, because if you're living this life of just this sedentary,
1:21:28
and most most of the time when you use the word sedentary, people just think about people sitting
1:21:31
on a couch, but a lot of people are mentally sedentary as well. They're not putting something
1:21:35
out there in front of them to to strive towards or to really look for. And so for you, you've
1:21:41
obviously done a lot of really crazy extreme things before the age of 30. In realistic fashion, Ash,
1:21:48
what age do you think you'll stop doing the really extreme stuff? Like, I mean, you'll probably be
1:21:54
doing the trekking and traversing for the entirety of your life. But have you thought about an age
1:21:59
where you're like, yeah, I'm probably not going to, you know, go across rivers that have crocodiles
1:22:03
in them. Well, in terms of when I talk about now, well, the business, you know, business marketing,
1:22:10
the entrepreneurial will fascinate me. So it's a case of I need to get sensible in terms of
1:22:17
transferring it into all of these physical sort of adventures to more of a business.
1:22:22
You know, maybe I could. I would love the idea of TV where I'm doing shorter adventures where
1:22:30
there's a team there, but that was showcasing these beautiful parts where we're capturing
1:22:34
these stun parts of the world that I've gone to or planned to go to on proper HD camera instead
1:22:40
of GoPro. You know, we can share that. Building it as a brand and branching out to many things,
1:22:47
like the talks, like the book that I've got, like the TV shows and not necessarily just within
1:22:53
physical adventures. The physical adventures will always be there, but they'll only be as
1:22:58
big as I'm able to handle, if that makes sense. So I still believe, and it's crazy that you've
1:23:03
got a guy called Mike Horn, who's a big inspiration as well. He is 50, I don't know his age, I'm sure
1:23:10
he's early 50, let's say 54, 55, and he is currently, as we speak, attempted to become the first person
1:23:18
ever to circumnavigate the planet via both poles using non-motorized vehicles. So even he's sailing,
1:23:29
he's not using a yacht. And he's in his 50s. So I think with this world, it's not like the boxing
1:23:37
world. I'm highly into the martial arts, and so are you. Like with the boxing and with the martial
1:23:42
arts, that's kind of a young man's game, isn't it? You get in there, you make the cash, and you get
1:23:49
out there as fast as you can. Whereas this, it isn't that. As I said, he's mid 50s, and he's
1:23:56
just finished skiing across the Arctic, I believe. He's sailing, he's then trekking.
1:24:05
So yeah, his biggest sponsor is like Mercedes, so he's actually earning some crazy mega books,
1:24:11
he's a household name, a brand as well. Yeah, man, I can know it's interesting, it's interesting.
1:24:17
You got time to think about it. So I just wanted to kind of put that in your brain. Hey,
1:24:20
I might end up being your manager. I'll be the mean guy that tells people to leave you alone
1:24:24
and get you to think about stuff in a business sense. But one of the things that I think a lot
1:24:29
of guys will be interested to hear, because we got a lot of guys here that have a lot of gear,
1:24:33
a lot of outdoor gear. But the thing about it is you walk into an outdoor store,
1:24:37
and there's so much junk in there, and you don't even realize it's junk because it looks nice,
1:24:43
and it's in cool packaging, and there's some really cool dude using it in the commercial.
1:24:47
But what I would like to know, what I would like our listeners to know from you,
1:24:51
is what are the essential pieces of equipment and brands with the brands for trekking and for
1:24:58
some of the outdoorsy things that people would maybe do themselves. And what are some of the things
1:25:03
that we as consumers think that we need, but we actually don't need them?
1:25:07
Yeah, it's another good question because I've used lots of different kit
1:25:13
depending on the environment that I mean, the country that I'm trekking through.
1:25:18
So judging by the kit that I've always had with me for all the different terrains
1:25:25
is, so first and foremost would be my water filtration bottle. That's just called water to go.
1:25:32
So that was originally created by NASA, I believe. It's like a filtration technology
1:25:37
where you don't need to boil the water, you don't need to use the pump action filter,
1:25:41
you don't need to place a chlorine tablet inside. This is literally the filter so strong that
1:25:47
you can top up. I think the worst I've topped up from was a mud puddle in Madagascar.
1:25:51
Oh wow, it scooped up mud, scooped up sand, but you know, a lot of water there too.
1:25:56
And it filters through as fresh water. It gets with a 99.9% contaminants in all bacteria and I've
1:26:03
never had an illness from water, on Mongolia, Madagascar, and Michin Yangtze. I've even drunk
1:26:10
from the Yangtze River using these bottles. So that's probably my number one because water is
1:26:15
obviously a crucial one, isn't it, when you're on these adventures? So the water to go
1:26:21
bottle footwear is obviously another crucial one, but I don't know if I'm the right person to give
1:26:29
that advice because all of my time, although I've walked over 7,000 miles in different countries,
1:26:34
I am just born trainers. I don't like boots because... Really? Okay. You know, I'm such
1:26:40
water, I've never actually, I've never twisted my ankle. So I don't really need that ankle support
1:26:45
and I've gone over crazy terrains. But you know, when the boots get wet, especially in the jungles
1:26:49
of Madagascar, that's it, then they are soaked. They take days to dry and they become really heavy
1:26:56
as well. And so the reason why I talk trainers is because they're comfortable, they're lightweight,
1:27:01
they dry easy. So it's these little things and I know that the military use boots, but I don't know
1:27:08
man, I just felt for myself, it's always been either sandals. You know, go like the locals,
1:27:12
the locals' knowledge is the best knowledge and this is why I love learning more survival from the
1:27:17
locals just because they teach us so many little things that are sometimes very basic. Isn't it
1:27:24
the guy that walked the Amazon River? He just wore crocs. You know, some basic stuff. So sandals and
1:27:31
trainers, a knife or a machete. So the machete came in handy for all sorts in Madagascar.
1:27:38
So again, depending on the terrain that you're walking through, but yeah, footwear,
1:27:45
water to go bottle, good compass, waterproof clothing, I can be like an overall, I know we go
1:27:52
with the overalls because I layer up on these, especially in the cold environments. And so I
1:27:58
would say, yeah, and then like a little stove, a little lightweight stove, what one was I using?
1:28:03
Omni stove, I think it was. Okay. And that, I used that because not only does it fuel off
1:28:12
gasoline, but it also off vodka or any whiskey, you know, so it actually uses the vapors and can
1:28:19
hold the flame. And so I used that in Mongolia because if there was no petrol station on route,
1:28:23
which a lot of the time there wasn't, the locals do love their vodka. So I didn't, I didn't need to,
1:28:30
but I could pretty much purchase vodka, top up my stove and there you go. I'm cooking for my
1:28:36
Russian pax. I got you. So what about, what about stuff that you've seen a lot of people buy that
1:28:42
really is just takes up room in a pack and just you just don't need it. It's just not, not any good
1:28:47
for what you need it for. What would that be? I don't know, but there's a lot of stuff on by
1:28:55
journeys when I'm trekking that I realize I don't need and I do get rid of. And that is mainly
1:29:01
electronics. That's mainly electronics that I found and just backing up everything. Oh, I need
1:29:06
extra batteries, all extra cables. And I need a third cable in case the second cable breaks
1:29:13
after my first, if the first goes, you know, right? Yeah. And then once you start that flow,
1:29:19
you tend to triple back up absolutely everything then. And then you've got a rucksack, which
1:29:25
should be three times as light. So I would say sometimes the electronics and clothes as well,
1:29:33
clothes is a big one. So if you go into a hot country, you're out in the wilderness,
1:29:39
you know, you don't need to smell nice. Just take one shirt or two shirts and rotate the
1:29:45
wash one where the other, when that dries, switch it up. Some people can take too many clothes to
1:29:51
or take this t-shirt or take a couple of these shirts and take four pairs of trousers.
1:29:55
Right. Let's take 16 pairs of box shorts. Sometimes you've just got to recycle and
1:30:01
rewear that same old shirt many, many a times. Hey, fair enough. Well, guys, you heard it from the
1:30:08
main guy here so that he knows what he's talking about. So what he's telling you is don't take
1:30:12
underwear on your trips. That's what I heard him say just now. You don't need underwear.
1:30:17
Well, one thing that we've talked about and obviously this is just a three point for your
1:30:20
entire life is resilience. And on this podcast and with this ministry, we talk about spiritual,
1:30:25
mental and physical resilience all the time. We don't talk about strength because strength
1:30:30
can wane. I mean, half Thor Bjornsson here in May, he's trying to set a bunch of deadlift records
1:30:38
and there's the world's strongest man in the day after the world's strongest man competition.
1:30:42
The guy that got the biggest trophy is not the strongest man in the world anymore because his
1:30:46
body's broken down. There's somebody else that day that's stronger than he is. But resilience
1:30:51
is different. Resilience is the ability to bounce back to be able to perform even in the face of
1:30:57
adversity. And so for you, what can you tell us about the importance of spiritual, mental or
1:31:03
physical resilience in your life as opposed to strength? Yeah, you know, all of my expressions,
1:31:08
I'll probably say that 70% has been based on mindset. You know, physical attributes are obviously
1:31:17
very important, but I believe the mentality your mindset can get you through just so much.
1:31:25
And I've experienced it in many difficult times where I've had to walk with malaria
1:31:29
when I'm hallucinating. You know, when I'm hacking through the jungle, I have stayed disciplined and
1:31:34
it was actually in the jungle where I learned we can't always be motivated, but we can be disciplined.
1:31:39
And just being resilient and bouncing back through, I remember suffering with malaria,
1:31:45
actually my parents were on the phone saying, what are you doing? You know, it's not cold,
1:31:49
it's not flu. It's the biggest disease in human history. You know, you need to
1:31:53
get yourself back home, but I knew that I could bounce back from it. I knew I was in safe hands,
1:31:58
and as long as I listened to the doctor, I could then stop performing these exercises in my bedroom
1:32:06
that wouldn't just help me put on those 13 kilograms that I lost by doing push-ups, swimming,
1:32:10
sit-ups, et cetera, but would help to strengthen up my mindset because after being hit hard by
1:32:15
something like that, you know, all of these doubts, all of these fears slip into your mind.
1:32:22
And so what I was doing while I was training was, you know, I always say,
1:32:26
probably hear me say it before, is I believe fear comes as a package deal. It comes with doubt.
1:32:31
Fear is healthy. Doubt, I believe, can be toxic. You know, the only way to get rid of doubt is through
1:32:37
your preparation, is through your mindset of knowing your abilities, knowing your confidence,
1:32:43
levels, knowing whether you can continue or not. And I do believe that that's the difference
1:32:48
with being able to continue and not being able to continue. You know, it's not that famous saying,
1:32:52
he who says he can't and he who says he can, both usually right. It's that mindset that is just so
1:32:59
powerful that will make that body perform, that will make you bounce back from traumatic experiences
1:33:06
and push on against adversity and see it through all the way to the end. So yeah, mindset, mind
1:33:13
over matter, it is definitely 70% mindset food, some physical. And that's the thing guys we talk
1:33:18
about all the time. It's resilient to see ability to work through something because the thing is,
1:33:23
is if you were born to be 510 like I am, you're 510. There's nothing you can do to be seven feet
1:33:29
tall. You know, some guys are born with natural speed. Some guys are born with a perfectly chiseled
1:33:35
body that they don't really have to do anything with. But none of that matters at the end of the day.
1:33:39
What actually matters is your ability to perform because, you know, you've, you've seen a lot of
1:33:44
guys and you've seen in fighting. Think about the guys that have bad bodies that would absolutely
1:33:48
murder you like Daniel Cormier or, you know, Shogun, who doesn't really have a body. These
1:33:53
aren't guys that look like they've been cut out of obsidian. These are dudes that are just, they are,
1:33:58
they are who they are. They have the body that they have, but they're doing all they can with it. And
1:34:03
so it's funny. I talk about MMA fighters. Now I do want to transition a little bit. I do want to
1:34:08
ask you about your, your training in Muay Thai because you mentioned very, very early at the
1:34:12
beginning of the podcast that you lived in Thailand for a couple years. You train Muay Thai, you have
1:34:17
some fights, you even had a stadium fight, which some people don't know how big of a deal that is,
1:34:21
but that that's everything over there that that is the Super Bowl for people in Thailand.
1:34:26
So the question I guess I have for you is again, you were a young guy, but a lot of people avoid
1:34:31
training the real martial arts. So, you know, not Wing Chung or Akido or karate or any of that stuff.
1:34:36
Like I'm talking about the real martial arts like Jiu Jitsu or Muay Thai or kickboxing. They just,
1:34:40
they won't train those things for whatever reason. So for you, what was the impetus behind even
1:34:45
wanting to start training and then kind of take us through a little bit of what it was like training
1:34:49
Muay Thai in the motherland of Muay Thai? Yeah, sure. So yeah, I've always been fascinated with
1:34:55
just body movement, martial arts, one-on-one combat, you know, the discipline and motivation that comes
1:35:02
with it. I was doing a lot of boxing here in Wales when I was younger. And it was probably when I
1:35:08
did see my first stadium fight in Bangkok when I first went traveling when I was 19, you know,
1:35:14
the crowd swarming it and the music that goes on, I'm sure you've heard the music is very creepy.
1:35:19
Absolutely. Yeah. Sort of screeching noises, but with the drums, you know, sort of praying to the
1:35:24
ancestors before the fight as well. And it, I just saw it and there's the car that goes past with the
1:35:32
big banner sticking out the trunk and a guy sort of announcing it through a big microphone and saying
1:35:37
the world's most devastating martial art Muay Thai tonight at night with the music playing. I don't know,
1:35:44
I was just hooked. I was like, I want to try this. And I got my ass handed to me first because
1:35:50
I was in that box's stance. And so the Thai fight is we're just obviously going to meet this, which was
1:35:55
jack up my leg completely. Some days I'd need to take the following day off work because I
1:36:00
couldn't climb back out of the ladder when I was scuba diving onto the boat because my leg wouldn't
1:36:05
bend, you know, my knee wouldn't bend. Right. But I nipped that in the boat. I was training five
1:36:11
times a week. It was amazing training with the ties just to see how focused they are. They would
1:36:18
sleep at the gym. They would wake up. They would train in the morning. They would train in the
1:36:22
afternoon. They would train again sometimes in the evening and then sleep at the gym.
1:36:26
But for these guys, you know, there's a dark side to Muay Thai for sure. A lot of them are trying to
1:36:30
be the next big fighter so that they could earn the big bucks and pull their family out of poverty.
1:36:34
But at the same time, there was this very positive vibe about it. Also, you know, they're training,
1:36:39
they're keeping fit, they're eating healthy, they're learning a lot about themselves,
1:36:43
but also each other. They're not going out drinking or doing drugs. They have this sense of community
1:36:49
and I love being part of that community. I had a few different club fights, which was awesome.
1:36:54
Now, I was constantly working on my defense because the last thing you want is an elbow to
1:36:59
your forehead and 16 stitches across your forehead, which I have seen before now.
1:37:03
And yeah, I went in for my first stadium fight where the guys say my opponent should I say
1:37:11
sailed from Mainland, Thailand across to Kotal, the island I was living on. And it's sort of,
1:37:17
you know, the person that wins leaves with the money, the person that loses goes home with nothing.
1:37:22
And so he obviously wanted to be paid. I wanted to be paid because I was only a low budget backpack
1:37:28
and nothing and much as a scuba diver. And if I win this fight, it paid probably three months
1:37:32
worth of accommodation. And we just went at it. We just went at it. And it was, it was actually
1:37:38
the easiest fight. I had the club fights were much harder, but I think he came in quite cocky,
1:37:43
sort of, you know, I've had six fights. This is his first stadium fight. So I'm going to,
1:37:48
I'm going to be in. But I trained hard, man. I'd be up at night, beating my shins with a
1:37:53
book or with a stick trying to kill the move endings, taking it very serious. And I went
1:37:57
in there with everything that I learned. And yeah, managed to get the knockout within 12 seconds
1:38:01
of the first round. Oh, wow. Jesus. It was like an hour with.
1:38:06
It was two head kicks, roundhouse kicks. And then it was the left. I missed him with my right,
1:38:12
but the less of the pattern on my, well, on the gloves, because Thailand is obviously very old
1:38:18
school, no health and safety when it comes to the martial arts. And so the pattern on my gloves
1:38:24
had been used for so many years that pretty much the pattern had been pushed to the side. So it's
1:38:31
almost like bare knuckle. And it's that that I caught in with just lunged in with the with the
1:38:36
left. And he dropped. Yeah, it's off on YouTube as well. Actually, the fight is actually on YouTube.
1:38:42
So I filmed it. Well, I'll definitely find that and put it in the show notes so it's so the guys
1:38:46
can check that out. But that's awesome. I just love hearing about people that go on these journeys
1:38:50
and do that because it's a different world when you train something versus when you compete. And so
1:38:55
a lot of guys in this podcast do jujitsu. And guys, if you've not competed before, as stressful and
1:39:02
as insane as it is, especially if you're if you're wired like I am, you know, just a lunatic super
1:39:07
competitive. It's just different. It's a different soreness afterwards. Yeah, the thing about it
1:39:14
is is like, and if you're doing a local jujitsu tournament, there might be 10 people watching you
1:39:19
do this. And then you fast forward and you watch a UFC and they're like, wait a minute, there's like
1:39:23
20,000 people in the stands watching this fight. There's millions of people around the world watching
1:39:28
this. And they're just cool as a cucumber walking down. You got Conor McGregor doing his billy walk
1:39:33
around. It's gone couldn't be looser. It's just a crazy thing to think about when people get into
1:39:38
that. One cool thing for you before the age of 30, he pretty much wrote a memoir. There's not a
1:39:45
whole lot of people that write books about themselves before the age of 30 because they haven't really
1:39:49
accomplished much. But you wrote a book called Mission Possible, a decade of living dangerously.
1:39:54
And so what was the process like for you of recounting your adventures in a book?
1:39:59
Oh man, the book was a stressful time for me. And so it's so difficult to,
1:40:06
but you know, I stay disciplined. I had a ghostwriter as well. Weirdly enough, I actually stuck to
1:40:13
keep on the journal just for self purposes. You know, when you're off traveling age 19, you just
1:40:18
sort of writing down what went on on this date, probably never going to look at it again. So just
1:40:22
write it down rough. But I took photos along with those days that I was obviously writing down the
1:40:28
journal. So I had to piece together the writing from the journal and the photos to help jog my
1:40:33
memory for what happened, you know, eight years ago, nine years ago, whenever it was. But it was
1:40:39
amazing. So that book, it pretty much discusses, you know, the normal background that I come from,
1:40:46
living on the coast and a small town called old Cohen sort of the dreams, the aspirations,
1:40:52
it covers the training, it covers the goal setting, mapping out how I decided to travel,
1:40:57
you know, this big mind map, how I could achieve it. It covers, you know, what I like about this
1:41:02
book, it's very varied. If you don't like walking, it's got cycling. If you don't like cycling,
1:41:07
it's got scuba diving. If you're not into extreme sports, you've got your martial arts and your
1:41:11
fitness. So it covers lots of different countries, lots of different activities. And it pretty much
1:41:16
builds into what made me take that first step of taking on Mongolia and then how I transitioned it
1:41:23
from just like a hobby, the love of passion, to then environmental work to then a career.
1:41:28
And it's got lots of crazy stories. I like to make notes in the book of how people can hopefully
1:41:35
relate and take something from it for them to use in their day to day life. And so yeah, but the
1:41:39
process, it was a long process, but we had to wrap it up fast. I think we had to smash it out
1:41:43
within six months because I had a UK theatre tour. And we wanted the books to be ready for when I
1:41:49
toured around the UK. But and again, you know, 2017, it was published. But it's doing better
1:41:59
than ever now because people want to sort of rewind to what happened before mission Yangtze.
1:42:03
And they've pretty much got it there, which is awesome.
1:42:07
That's that's great. And we are going to link to that in the show notes as well. We'll link to your
1:42:11
website, which has all your social media and your book stuff as well. But before we let you go,
1:42:15
we we like to do a section at the end of our interviews with people that aren't lame and
1:42:19
you're certainly not that. And it's a section called what would you say to someone that said?
1:42:23
And then I'm just gonna fill in the blank. I'm gonna fill in the blank. And these are lightning
1:42:27
round. Okay, so you've got you've got 30 seconds or less to give us your answers on these. So no
1:42:33
fluff. No nice guy. Just get right to the point. So you up to it. Let's do it. All right, man.
1:42:39
What would you say to someone that said you're going to die young?
1:42:43
[inaudible] let's live well then. Well, you didn't even need the 30 seconds because you went right
1:42:50
in. All right. Next one here. What would you say to someone that said I want to become an extreme
1:42:55
explorer? Go for it. It's possible, you know, and be ready to hit the low points, but the high points
1:43:03
will be so much worth it. But go for it. I'd say yeah. Let's try to rush that then. All right.
1:43:10
What would you say to someone that said, why don't you just take it easy?
1:43:13
Um, you're probably right, but I'm not going to.
1:43:18
That's true. That's good. That's a good answer. All right. Next one here. What would you say to
1:43:24
someone that said I struggle to push through the hard parts of workouts? You pushed through and
1:43:31
that's the main thing. That's right. A little bit of perspective. All right. Next one, isn't it?
1:43:38
Yep. What would you say to the someone that said I just don't have time to focus on my physical
1:43:43
fitness right now? I don't have time to focus on my physical fitness right now. I could be a jerk
1:43:52
and say that's a major excuse. But at the same time, I, it depends what they're going through,
1:43:58
doesn't it? I guess. Imagine if I said, oh, that's an excuse and say, yeah, but blah, blah is dying.
1:44:04
I'm suffering with this thing. Well, there you go. There's the nice guy inside me coming up.
1:44:09
Well, that is a nice guy. But I think your original response is the one we'll want to go with.
1:44:13
And so we'll get back in. I only got a few more of these for you. But the thing about it is
1:44:19
most people that are going through crap, whether it's mental stuff or family stuff,
1:44:23
there's always time to do something. I always encourage guys, like, oh, I don't have time to
1:44:27
work out. It's like, well, you can work out at home. You know, you can get a great workout with
1:44:31
the human body and mother earth. Do 100 burpees. What does that take you? 10, 15, 20 minutes,
1:44:36
like that, that'll get you pouring with sweat. And so for most people, working out will actually
1:44:41
help a lot of their issues because there's a strong correlation between physical exertion
1:44:46
and mental health. And some people that struggle with mental health, and again, I'm not a, you know,
1:44:51
I'm not a doctor, so I can't prescribe anything. But there are people that are living a sedentary
1:44:55
lifestyle and having mental struggles. And if those people start to exercise and start to work out,
1:45:00
a lot of their quote unquote life problems that they're going through, they kind of disappear.
1:45:05
You know what I mean? It's true, isn't it? Yeah, it's like some fury of you, you know,
1:45:08
about type of fury? Absolutely. Absolutely. That's a perfect story right there. He didn't
1:45:13
take any substances, I believe. He just started to set his goals, which gave him motive and started
1:45:18
to train, which set off those positive endorphins. Absolutely. And that dragged him out of depression,
1:45:23
didn't it? I believe it did. And I'm messing up my own show now by going off on a diatribe. So
1:45:28
let's get back into a kind of focus focus here. All right, here we go. I got I got three more for you.
1:45:33
What would you say to someone that said, you shouldn't put so much trust in people?
1:45:41
Oh, you got me stuck on that one. You shouldn't put so much trust in people. You could be right.
1:45:47
You could be right. But at the same time, I'm the opposite. I do put trust in people because
1:45:52
nine times out of 10, it comes off the way that I hoped and wanted. So I would say have more trust
1:46:00
in people. I would I would reply the exact opposite to what they said, have more trust, have more faith.
1:46:06
All right. Well, faith is a is a good one. Because here's the next one. What would you say to someone
1:46:11
that said, whether you believe it or not, God was with you every step of the way on all of your
1:46:16
expeditions? I would like to hope so. I hope so. That's all you're going to give me? You would
1:46:27
hope so you got to give me something else. Okay. So what was it? What would you say if someone said
1:46:34
that God was with you every step of the way on your expeditions? Damn right. He was. I don't
1:46:43
know. I don't know what to say. Hey, you know what? Fair enough. That's the way I wanted to ask you
1:46:48
that just because, you know, I've listened to a lot of stuff you've done. I've read a lot of stuff
1:46:53
and you don't ever get asked questions about that. And so I will ask questions that will kind of
1:46:58
challenge that because, you know, it's good. I like it. This is a Christian podcast, you know, obviously
1:47:04
belief in God and Jesus as a savior is an important thing. And so I try to make sure that at least
1:47:10
everybody, I'm trying to put a rock in your shoes, I guess, you know, yeah, have you think about that.
1:47:14
But hey, man, I got one who knows who knows how maybe he helped me get out from under that trailer,
1:47:20
you know, you know, push on. Well, here's the thing, Asha, and you know, you know, this isn't church,
1:47:25
but I'm going to take you to church just a little bit. My belief is that in order for you to have
1:47:30
accomplished the things that you did that that God gave you an ability, he gave you a mind to reckon
1:47:36
and he also gave you a work ethic, but you made the choice because in order to love God, you have
1:47:41
to have free will. I mean, because I like that. So if you think about it, and this is C.S. Lewis,
1:47:47
I'm totally plagiarizing from another Englishman. But at the same time is a world full of robots,
1:47:53
a world full of automatons would not have been a world worth creating. So in order for us to be
1:47:59
able to find God in order for us to be able to trust in Jesus for our salvation, we have to be
1:48:04
given choice. And so when we see people use their choice to hurt others, which you saw along the
1:48:09
path on your expeditions, people do ugly and terrible and horrifically evil things to other
1:48:15
people is because God had to give people free will and order for them to be able to have the
1:48:21
capacity to love. And so that's one thing whenever I read about someone like you, and I promise,
1:48:26
I'll get to my last question. When I read you and whenever I hear the things that you go through,
1:48:31
I see God all over it because there was a protective hand on you. There was provision and in the
1:48:38
moments where death was close, there was somebody there to help you. But here's the other part of
1:48:42
it is even if you weren't saved, even if you didn't make it to that village when your when
1:48:49
your pee was black and all those different things, God was still there with you. And that's not the
1:48:54
end of the story. When your lights turn out for the last time, that's not it. You know, just become
1:48:59
grass. There is a life afterwards. And that's what I like to talk to people about. Does that make
1:49:03
sense? I say that does make sense. Yeah. Yeah. No, I like that. All right. Well, we'll close my
1:49:08
sermon and we'll go to the last question of the day. And maybe the most important question we got.
1:49:12
What would you say to someone that said Ash Dykes has a death wish? Yeah, I get that a lot actually.
1:49:20
I get that a lot. And what I would say is, yeah, if you look at it from the outside, and that's the
1:49:28
the thing that into this quite a long answer. That's the thing that Instagram portrays, you know,
1:49:33
it shows the sort of the limelight, the great stuff going on and the near deaths and the struggles
1:49:39
and the dangers because people would love to hear about bears. But what they don't see in a lot of
1:49:44
things as well, same with the training you win it. You win a more tie fight that they don't see the
1:49:49
prep that you put into that. It is meticulous planning. It's all about trying your best to
1:49:55
research what could possibly go wrong and the learning and studying how you could possibly overcome
1:50:02
it. And if you don't think you can overcome it, don't do it. Sometimes I had to pull myself back
1:50:09
and delay an expedition by a couple of weeks because I wasn't quite ready. I didn't know why I wasn't
1:50:13
ready. There was just something that I just didn't. The confidence levels weren't there and I had a
1:50:19
bit of doubt and I didn't pursue it until I felt 100% confident that I could not only take it on
1:50:28
but overcome each of the challenges in order to make it back alive. So I would definitely say it's
1:50:33
not a death wish. It's meticulous planning and attention to detail. Well, that is a fantastic
1:50:41
answer and I can't think of a better place to leave it. Man, you've given us a lot of time. We
1:50:44
certainly appreciate it and we've talked about a lot of different subjects but that's all for me.
1:50:49
Is there anything else you want to get off your chest? No, I think that's the lot. That was really
1:50:54
cool Kyle enjoyed that and thanks for having me. But yes, you know, people know where to find me.
1:51:00
The website, the Instagram is what I keep more up to date but yeah, we'll keep in touch.
1:51:05
Yep, and we'll put all those links in the show notes. So Ash Dykes, thanks for coming on
1:51:09
On Daunted Life, a man's podcast. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
1:51:13
There you go, guys. Hopefully you enjoyed that interview, guys. He was just so
1:51:21
humble and generous with his time and I really enjoyed talking with him. We actually talked
1:51:25
for probably 10 or 15 minutes off air before we even started recording. I was like, oh crap,
1:51:30
we better start recording this because we're already saying some pretty cool stuff. But
1:51:33
really, really awesome guy. But before we let you guys go, we are going to do a quick resilience
1:51:36
boost. And as you know, by now, we are a men's ministry and our mission is cultivating manly
1:51:41
resilience. Specifically, we do that by providing content like this podcast that forges spiritual,
1:51:45
mental and physical toughness. So the website links I've got for you today, I've got a link to
1:51:49
Ash Dykes website. So the website is just kind of a good center point for everything. So if you
1:51:54
want to follow him on social media, go there, you'll be able to see that. If you want to get his book,
1:51:57
go there, you won't be able to see that. If you want more information on the missions,
1:52:00
you'll be able to see that there. Also, I've got a link to his episode with the Joe Rogan experience.
1:52:04
It was episode 1410 from earlier this year. And then I was able to find the video of him doing
1:52:10
his Muay Thai fight. So you can see a little bit of his training in the prep. And so guys,
1:52:13
if you've never seen a Muay Thai stadium fight before, it's awesome. You got to check it out.
1:52:17
That is in the show notes. Thanks so much. We really appreciate listening to the podcast.
1:52:21
If you would, please subscribe on Apple podcast, iTunes, Spotify, Google podcast, or Stitcher and
1:52:25
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1:52:30
guys, please leave us five stars and don't forget to leave us a few comments letting us know why
1:52:34
you like the content. I'm currently booking speaking engagements for the remainder of 2020
1:52:38
in the beginning of 2021. So if you want me to come speak on your podcast at your men's event,
1:52:42
at your whatever, hit me up info at undaunted.life. Again, that's I N F O at undaunted.life. Our website
1:52:48
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1:52:53
facebook.com backslash undaunted life. Check out our free devotionals on the U version Bible app,
1:52:58
just search undaunted life under plans. And as always, we want to thank the band August
1:53:01
Britain's Red for allowing us to use their entire musical library for our content. The
1:53:05
entire outro track on this podcast is our song Defender, which is off their latest record entitled
1:53:09
Guardians. The links are in the description. I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember,
1:53:15
keep cultivating manly resilience, keep forging spiritual mental and physical toughness,
1:53:20
keep seeking the lion of Judah.