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This is Undaunted Life Man's Podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
0:45
All right, guys, today we've got an interview with Ray Dorwart. So you might not be familiar
0:49
with that name. Most of you probably aren't going to be familiar with that name, but he is an
0:52
incredibly interesting man that I met just really a couple of months ago, but he owns a custom
0:58
bootmaking shop. So think Western cowboy boots on second in Harrison in downtown Guthrie, Oklahoma.
1:04
And this guy designs and handcrafts custom cowboy boots, right? So these are not the boots that
1:10
you're just going to walk into the store, pull off the shelf, spend a few hundred bucks and get
1:13
on out the door. This guy literally will craft a boot around each one of your individual feet.
1:19
And a really cool thing is we actually do this interview in his shop. So there's going to be some
1:24
ambient noise. I'm just going to tell you right away, we've got a train in the background at one
1:28
point. I think you can hear cars driving by his apprentice is in there working on boots and they
1:32
were like, hey, you know, does he need to be quiet? And I'm like, no, no, like we want to hear that.
1:36
You can hear him walking around his boots there on the hardwood floor. The door is open and
1:40
in closing, but it's got a really, really cool sound to it. So it's not going to be, you know,
1:45
the most studio quality thing that you've ever heard, but I just really wanted to do this end,
1:49
this interview in the ambiance and surroundings of his actual shop there in Guthrie, Oklahoma.
1:55
It's an incredible story of how he even got there though, because this guy spent
1:59
almost 20 years as a working cowboy in Wyoming, Montana, the Dakotas Nebraska. I mean,
2:05
this guy was the real deal. So if any of you guys are out there and you like the show Yellowstone,
2:09
this is a real life guy. This is a real life guy that did stuff like that. But he eventually
2:13
made the transition into making some of the world's best handcrafted boots. But the thing about this
2:18
interview is it was, it was an interesting interview for me because I always like to prepare ahead
2:24
of time. I try to, I want to make sure that my guests look as good as possible. I want to ask
2:28
them good questions to just to kind of tee them up as easily as I can so that they can have a good
2:33
interview. Guys, I didn't even get to a quarter of the questions that I wanted to ask Ray Doerwart.
2:39
And we talked for well over an hour. But the thing about it was is because this guy can really,
2:45
really get into a story. And the thing is, is if you try to cut a story off, because I've watched
2:49
interviews with him before and guys are kind of cutting him off because they think he's done talking,
2:53
I want to make sure to give him room to breathe. I want to make sure to give him room to tell his
2:57
stories, because as I'm listening to him tell his stories on this interview, but even before the
3:02
interview, after the interview, it's almost like, I'm trying to think of the best way to say this.
3:07
So when you talk to somebody who they have regret in their life about conversations they didn't have,
3:13
maybe they didn't spend a lot of time talking to grandpa, you know, about his time in the war,
3:17
maybe they didn't talk a lot about grandma, what it was like during the Great Depression.
3:21
And then once those people are gone, you just lose a lot of those stories or they become extended
3:26
to the point where you're not sure what's real and what's fake. That's the sense that I got when
3:30
I was listening to Ray and his stories is he is a sage. He is a guy that has lived a rough life,
3:36
you know, he chose a lot of that rough life being a cowboy. But this guy has a tremendous
3:41
relationship with with his family, with his wife. He's got an unbelievable discipleship with Jesus
3:47
Christ and we get into that at several points. And guys, there's several points in this conversation
3:51
where Ray stops talking and it's not because he's thinking it's because he's choked up. He even gets
3:56
choked up right from the beginning of the interview. But guys, there are some incredible stories in
4:00
here. And so there are certain parts in there where if you're not really into custom bootmaking,
4:03
maybe you're not that interested in it, but it is kind of cool to hear how a master craftsman
4:08
is able to put something like that together to get out to the public. And there might be some
4:12
sections about cowboy in that you're not really that big one. But guys, there are so many different
4:16
notes that you could get from an interview like this from a guy like this. And guys,
4:21
toward the end of the podcast, we talk a lot about I kind of introduced how I even got introduced to
4:26
him and how we even got into a friendship with one another. And it's a really interesting story
4:32
there toward the end. But also, I talked to a real life tough guy about what it's like to be a
4:36
Christian and a tough guy. So at this point, if you're not interested in listening to this episode,
4:40
I don't know what I can do for you. I'm doing all that I can because this is such a good episode,
4:45
guys, it didn't go in any way that I thought it was going to go. But in a lot of ways, I think
4:49
it was way better. So guys, without further ado, let's get into it. Ray Doarwart, welcome to Undaunted
4:55
Life of Man's podcast. Thank you very much. Glad to be here. Well, I'm so excited to be here
5:01
with you. And in the introduction, obviously, I talked about the fact that we are in your shop,
5:05
like we are literally in your shop right now in, you know, historic downtown Guthrie, Oklahoma. And
5:11
so being able to talk to you about the things we're going to talk about today, also being in your
5:15
shop is kind of a cool deal. But but a great way to start this, and I don't normally start interviews
5:20
this way, but I have a feeling that we'll get some good content there is I want to get a little bit
5:24
of information about tells about your childhood, because we're going to get into the stuff you did
5:28
as cowboy, we're going to get into boot making, we're going to get into all those things that are
5:32
why people are tuning in to listen to this episode. But give us a little bit about, you know, where
5:35
did you grow up? What was it like? What was your family like growing up? My family, I probably am
5:42
pretty biased on that. It's a it was a good family. Just tremendous. I had a I had a dad.
5:57
I had a dad that was everything that I wanted to be. And he was he took us boys everywhere with
6:11
him did all kinds of stuff. And one of the statements was, little pictures would be seen and not heard.
6:22
And because we were that way, then he he took us and we got to experience a lot of things kids,
6:28
young kids, little kids, and never got the experience because he he just took us with him.
6:36
We did a lot of stuff. He did a lot of different things. I grew up or was born in Nebraska.
6:44
We moved to Colorado. We moved to Hawthorne, California. Moved back to Nebraska. Moved to
6:54
Inglewood, California. Moved to Citrus Heights, California. Moved back to Nebraska. And actually,
7:02
I went to and we moved around the state of Nebraska, whatnot. But I went to 11 different schools from
7:10
the time I started school in kindergarten until I graduated high school. The last two years,
7:16
my junior senior year, we were in I was in the same school. And so that made it kind of tough.
7:24
I don't know how it is for girls, but I know boys growing up. It's it's a tough deal because you get
7:31
to a new area, a new school, a new whatever community. You've got to fight your way to a point where
7:40
you're wherever you level out in that pecking order. And it seemed like I grew up fighting
7:48
and get to the point where you're accepted by those below you and those above you if you're
7:56
got somebody above you. And at that point in time, you got friends in and then in six months,
8:02
you're moving and doing it all over again. And I used to really, I know, I've got a brother,
8:09
it's two years younger and me and another one. It's nine years younger. But
8:15
Bart, my one runner right underneath me, he and I really struggled with that for years because
8:22
we just didn't think it was fair to have to move around and go through all that stuff.
8:27
But as I grew older and left home and and things that I did, I found that that was
8:35
quite a quite a benefit because we got to experience
8:39
many cultures and interact and and got to see a lot of different country. And and so it made me
8:49
around it more rounded out individual, my adult years to where I could meet and visit with somebody
8:56
and just anybody and and had something in common somewhere, you know, somewhere we'd been or seen
9:04
or somebody we knew or you know, it's just an opportunity to visit, which in the end turned out
9:11
to be a good deal for my business that I'm in now because I've got people from all over the world
9:19
besides just the United States come in and and get to visit with them and spend some time with them.
9:26
One of the things that our dad impressed upon us that was so important was when somebody takes
9:36
time to visit with you, you need to visit with them. Look him in the eye, talk to him and listen
9:44
to him. And so that's that's helped me a great deal of my in my business being able to do that.
9:52
My dad did a lot of things throughout his life. He always
9:57
his desire was to continually do better to provide for his family better. So every time he took
10:09
a new job, we moved it was to better the family and it did. He was a more interesting thing.
10:16
Well, man, there's a lot of interesting things. I could spend a lot of hours on my just
10:20
sure. Yeah, but when we was in Colorado, he worked for an uncle there and he was a
10:29
my uncle was actually a medical doctor, but he had a mining company and my dad worked for him
10:36
as a as a prospector and then claims
10:39
lost a word. I wanted to use for that, but he filed claims for him and I was in the period of
10:50
uranium was big in this country and it was uranium mines is what they were doing. But I remember
10:56
when I was somewhere in my, I don't know, mid 50s, dad made mention that and that would have been
11:04
20 some years ago, but 20 years ago, but
11:08
and I don't remember what we were talking about at the time, but he says, you know, he says there's
11:14
probably still stakes on veil mountain. It's got my name on it. Yeah, of course, it's
11:21
a ski resort now, but anyway, it was a neat deal, neat experience. He saw a lot of things that
11:29
a lot of people probably liked us seeing. He worked all of western Colorado portions of
11:40
New Mexico, Arizona and Utah. And I remember he'd be gone for he might be gone for a week or might
11:47
be gone for a month and he'd come home and he'd have some dinosaur bone he picked up and or he'd
11:52
talk about pueblos that he found and and crawled around in him and he said there I remember him
11:58
talking about pottery and different things in them pueblos, you know, and he never took anything,
12:03
but he just kept that story to give to us kids. But that's pretty neat. So anyway,
12:11
that's some of my childhood. I mean, well, there's so many ways you could go with that. But one of
12:18
the things that I think is really interesting, even here you talk about your dad, you obviously
12:21
have a tremendous amount of reverence for your father and who he was. And the cool thing is is,
12:25
you know, one thing that I've seen I've physically seen in the interactions that I've had with you,
12:29
I mean, you do you look me dead in the eye and I grew up, you know, basically in this distracted
12:35
culture where if you get that buzz in your pocket, you got to check it immediately or or you're in
12:39
one of those social settings and you're talking to somebody and you can tell they're kind of looking
12:43
over your shoulder to see if there's someone more interesting that they need to be talking to.
12:46
So it's that it's that wisdom that it doesn't have to be complicated. It's just simple. But
12:50
the thing about you and about your early childhood, which has kind of developed you into who you are
12:54
today, certainly, is you spent a lot of time as a real working cowboys and you spent time in Montana
13:00
and Wyoming and in the Dakotas. So kind of take us through, you know, why did you why were you kind
13:05
of pulled to that type of work? Because that's not a lot of work that most people were wanting to
13:09
sign up for that that's tough hard work and kind of give us an idea of what you did and what that
13:13
experience was like. Well, it went way back to to my childhood. My dad always had when I was
13:23
younger. He always had some horses around. So I learned to ride when I was very young.
13:30
And then there was a period of time when he didn't have any horses anymore. And we
13:37
had neighbors that had horses we rode. We did we had some neighbors that there was a
13:45
who was going to country school at the time. And there were some neighbors that lived a couple
13:52
two and a half miles to the northeast of us there. And there was a one boy that was
13:58
a little older than I was, a year older than I was. And then his brother was the same year as my
14:05
one brother. And man, we just we spent all the time we could a horseback and they were actually
14:16
farmers, but they had horses. And we just had a blast there and that. And when we was a little
14:23
up till probably my probably up to the time that I was in eighth grade,
14:31
actually, we had to be in bed at eight o'clock clear up until I was I started high school.
14:46
And after that, I could stay up till nine. It was kind of an interesting deal. I as I was the
14:50
oldest, I had an older brother that had died many years before. But as the oldest, everything was
14:57
gauged off to what age I was. For example, I couldn't get me a BB gun until I was nine
15:06
years old. But when I was nine years old, I got a BB gun. But my brother that was seven years old,
15:12
he got one right at the same time. So you kind of lost out a little bit. And that's kind of how
15:18
how things went. But anyway, we had to be in bed at eight o'clock and dad would come in and he'd
15:24
read his stories. And a lot of them were books of his childhood. And there was stories of by
15:35
Jack Lord, you know, North to Laskin, Kazan and Sonic Kazan. And then there was another one called
15:43
Two Little Savages and just different books. And then he got into reading Luke Short, which is a
15:52
Western paperback author. And so growing up, where I grew up in the different places,
16:01
that was that was my driving force was was cowboy for some reason. And of course, we watched all the
16:12
black and white TV serials on Westerns during the late 60s, early 50s, late 50s, early 60s.
16:25
So the last time we moved back to Nebraska, Southwest Nebraska there after leaving California.
16:35
My grandpa on my dad's side, that's where he and my grandma lived. And my grandpa had
16:45
owned a lot of country in that area. And most and he leased it all out. But there was one
16:54
outfit that at least some of his. And I went to work for him. And it was, they raised cattle,
17:02
but they raised crops too. And the one brother that I actually worked for was a cow man. And
17:11
that's where I really started learning about cattle. And I learned a lot from that man. He
17:26
kind of took me in as his son, basically, and taught me a lot. But anyway, then I went to
17:32
graduate from high school and went to junior college and then went to
17:39
the University of Nebraska and got hooked up with the rodeo team. And it just,
17:45
actually, I take that back. I left, I got out of high school and at a cousin, it was going to
17:54
Montana. And he was going to go to work for Glacier National Park for their maintenance crew. And
18:02
he's come driving into our yard. Actually, I was working for that Don Wallen at the time. And he
18:09
come pulled into the by the shop. And I happened to be there. And Don was there. And he came in,
18:14
said he was going to Montana, go to work. Had a job up there. And I wanted to know if I wanted
18:21
to go with him. And Don says, man, if it was me, I'd go. And I said, you sure? I mean,
18:30
I'm working for you. And he says, no, I'd go. So we did. I thought, I was 18 years old and,
18:36
of course, I was 10 foot tall and bulletproof. And sure, of course, I could get a job anywhere,
18:42
doing anything. It didn't matter where they get on at Glacier National Park. So anyway,
18:46
get up there. We drive up there. And I took my vehicle and Steve had his, but
18:56
he went to check in. And I went to West Glacier to the headquarters for Glacier National Park and
19:05
asked for an application. And they gave me an application and I filled it out. And they said,
19:13
there's really no jobs available because those are all taken up here in advance. And there's a
19:20
general walk behind a young lady's there at the desk. And he looked at me, he said, hello. And I
19:28
said, hello, how you doing? He says, fine. He walked on down the hall and he turned around. He
19:33
came back and he says, you know, anything about horses? And I says, yeah, he says, do you ever
19:40
drove a team? And I says, no, but you can teach me. I mean, I can learn. He says, let me go find a
19:46
job for you. So he actually got me a job, which was, it was called a fire control aid. But my
19:55
actual job was running a pack string out of one district of Glacier National Park
20:02
to the fire lookouts and the trail crew. And that was an amazing, amazing deal. And I tell you what,
20:14
that is, I would like to say that is that was all God's deal. Because he just, for so much of my
20:24
life, he's opened up so many doors that, that it were just unexplainable other than his presence
20:34
involved in that. So I did that for a couple of years. And of course, coming out of that big old
20:42
open plains country where he can see for miles and miles, I got to where I was claustrophobic in
20:47
them mountains because you can't see anywhere unless you get up above tree line. And they didn't see
20:53
another row of mountains on the other side. Right, of course. Yeah. A lot of neat stories there.
21:01
I had opportunity. I don't know how much of this you want to hear, but
21:11
I had, camp I was in was Walton station, it was Ranger station. And there was a little 1940s
21:20
air stream trailer that I lived in in that camp and had a barn, set of pens and
21:28
mules and pack mules. And we rode saddle horses and pack mules. And it was dark out. And
21:37
I've, I've lost the name of the, of the gentleman that was ahead of all the glacier park out of,
21:45
and he was out of West Glacier. He and the next guy down come rolling in and knocked on my door
21:52
and they said they had a young boy, it was stranded. That we had a lot of rain and not only the rain,
22:05
but it took the snowpack and the middle fork, the flathead, ran right there by my camp.
22:11
Was just above flood stage. I was a lot of water in that. What turned out to be was that morning,
22:20
this boy and his family and grandpa and whatnot was on the one side of the river fishing,
22:28
and he fell in and got swept across to the other side. And they spent all day, they got a whole,
22:36
it was, it was a crazy deal to me. I don't know why they didn't come to me early in the morning,
22:44
but they got a whole to headquarters and in the glacier, West Glacier and those guys came down
22:51
there and they tried putting a boat in and going across. They tried all kinds of stuff. So they
22:56
wait till it's dark and then they finally come get me and wanted me to know if I could get him
23:02
down to where there was that and I knew the place or where the roughly where it was and it was,
23:10
it was dark out. It was overcast, there was no lights and I just a few days before that had
23:18
been down through there and there was a sow grizzly down there. It had five cubs, which is
23:23
unbelievable to have five cubs. I don't know, they all survived, but I was just not
23:30
very comfortable in the dark not being able to see and knowing that they're down there and
23:36
one thing you never want to do is be between the mama and her cubs, that's a bad deal. But anyway,
23:46
we I gathered up some rope. The boy was standing on a big huge boulder off the
23:54
shore there about 10 foot or so and they had told me that and so many way I had
24:03
I got some rope and we got some pack with some hot chocolate made up some hot chocolate for him
24:10
because he's been there all day and so I get him there never ran into grizzlies. I praise the
24:15
lord on that, never did on coming back, but I had to I had I tied a rope around myself
24:27
and I waited down into that water and that water is running hard and it's about not quite
24:33
between my between the top of my chest and my waist and very swift the rocks are slick
24:43
and anyway I get across there and he's and I had I had to really talk a long time for him to get
24:51
him off that boulder he was so scared got him down got him crossed got him back home safely.
24:58
Interesting thing was I had a article on that in the hungry horse there's a little town
25:10
west of there kind of west of there but uh hungry horse uh committed in it there's a hunger horse damn
25:17
there it was all had a billboard said and either side you come into town it was a
25:26
the smallest damn town in the United States. Yeah it was about d-a-m sure yeah but uh the
25:37
article uh talked all about them head rangers and how they saved this boy and
25:43
and you're thinking to yourself hey hey I'm the guy that was worried about the grizzly bears I'm
25:48
the guy that was ready to go well I mean it seems like you you have so many stories from that time
25:54
period but I mean how much time did you spend as a cowboy in that area before you kind of
25:59
transitioned often to being a being a boot banker. Oh I was that that's the beginning of the beginning
26:05
of the beginning. Sure but uh I left there and actually I I uh worked in south west Nebraska
26:15
cowboy there uh worked for basically one guy did some day work for another some others around
26:22
there but then I moved to uh south Dakota on the Pine Ridge reservation which was
26:30
oh I was 20 vibe I guess then which was an interesting place
26:37
that that suited me for my time it was uh
26:42
there I got a lot of stories on that too but uh at one point in time uh my folks used to
26:55
used to get the US World News and uh I've lost the name of the other one something's very similar
27:04
to that I don't remember which magazine it was but they used to send them up to me in the mail
27:10
because I like to read them. US World, US World News and uh that doesn't matter so anyway I get this
27:19
one and I'm reading through this one magazine I don't remember which one it was and
27:24
it said the 10 most likely places to be killed in the United States
27:28
number one of course it was by uh uh population sure number one was Detroit
27:38
Michigan number two is Pine Ridge south Dakota of course so I kind of gave you an idea uh
27:44
but uh that was it was it was just kind of wild and crazy and and that suited me fine
27:55
left out of there and went to Wyoming uh I spent a little less than 20 years cowboy
28:01
and actually cowboy and uh I worked on little ranches where I did everything from riding to
28:08
fixing fence or climbing windmills which I it's pretty hard for me to do a windmill because
28:13
I'm not much for getting on heights and it's when you have to top that tower and uh you got
28:22
both hands wrapped around the tower it's hard to get anything done sure right but
28:27
and then I then I worked on some bigger outfits where where I just drew riding wages and uh
28:33
there was a point in time in my and I and I was not uh I was a believer I guess you might say
28:47
because I believed God was real I believed Jesus came to the earth but I hadn't that I had no
28:56
desire to be in that I mean I just was I was in a complete different direction
29:03
and the reason I believed because I my folks took us to Sunday school and church when we were in uh
29:12
living with them up until a point when I became a junior and I started doing a lot of other things
29:18
didn't go church and whatnot but but I had never accepted Jesus there was nothing to do with my
29:24
lifestyle and I didn't want it right so I'm in uh Wyoming uh I've got a camp that I'm in I got
29:37
a little over 3,300 had a cattle I'm riding and it's uh places 52 section so it's a lot of country to
29:45
ride and I had uh had a horse go down I'm not going to go through all that probably at this time maybe
29:53
but uh had quite an experience and actually actually died under that horse on the side of
30:02
mountain in Wyoming and had a had an out of body experience
30:07
that uh I saw this huge being and uh and I thought it was Jesus or one of his angels come to get me
30:19
which wouldn't have been right anyway because I'd never asked him to be my lord and savior but
30:26
so anyway this I see this being up on this ridge and uh he was uh huge I can't tell you how tall he
30:37
was he was he was huge and I'm just I'm going up this ridge to to him and he's standing there he's
30:44
got a robe on and he's got his hands tucked in the sleeves of his robe and he's got a turbanon he's
30:50
got this huge black beard so I get up there and I'm I'm looking at him I'm on his left hand side
31:00
and he's still just staring down down the mountain there and uh I don't know how long this all
31:09
transpired you know a lot of things happened right through there but anyway at one point in time I
31:15
looked down I could see my body laying on the ground down there and the horse was getting up
31:20
but in the next thing I know I'm laying I am laying on the ground and I'm looking
31:26
straight up in the sky and I uh and I know I'm hurt I know I don't hurt but I know I am
31:36
and uh so I'm wondering what happened to the horse and I kind of get rolled up and I find him and
31:44
and he's not just a little lace from me and so I get up and I check him and I know I'm not going
31:49
to go through the whole deal on that but uh at any rate uh I had uh one of my old riding partners
32:00
Kenneth Kenneth Metling uh in fact today we've probably been it's been over close to 45 years
32:09
we've been friends and he's kind of friend that uh kind of you don't talk to maybe for a year and
32:17
when you do you're just like you talked yesterday although now he calls every day but but anyway
32:25
he was working for uh John Scott landing cattle out of Hardin, Montana for some reason or other
32:32
he quit and he come down to see me and uh we were laying around there and he was there for a couple
32:39
weeks and we still I still did whatever I needed to do and he rode with me but I had wound up I had
32:47
two broken ribs and a cracked rib on the front side my sternum was split about
32:56
six inches up and I had just wrapped myself up with torn up some t-shirts so I could breathe but
33:03
anyway Kenneth says he's telling me we were riding one day and he says
33:08
you know cowboys are the only only people that I know of that quit their job
33:14
and go to see a friend to do the same thing they quit but where I'm going with this story is we
33:22
evening times we'd lay around that camp there talking about what we were wanting to do and
33:25
and uh different than what we were doing you know I was 34 years old 35 years old something like that
33:35
and uh I owned a pickup and a bedroom and a saddle and I was about it and what really later on what
33:46
really changed my mind was about what I was going to do is the manager of the of the ranch the main
33:55
ranch would come up every couple of weeks show up about 5 30 in the morning and I come to find out
34:05
what he did was he came up to eat breakfast because you know I never he'd never ride out with me or
34:13
anything and never really talk about the cattle and so anyway he and the owner Mr. Pace out of Texas
34:22
showed up one morning and I fixed him breakfast and he wanted to know what what I was going to fix
34:29
for dinner I said well I don't know I said I was going to ride that what I called the
34:35
talk-buff pasture which was a 40 mile ride round trip I said I was just going to take my pack of
34:43
lunch with me and he says man I wanted Mr. Pace to eat some more of your food and so I said okay
34:48
I'll find something round close to you and so I I did and I don't I couldn't tell you what I
34:54
fixed that day but they showed back up in the camp there about noon and and that I mean they were
35:03
eaten now this is almost I think about it was like they were double-handed you know they were just
35:10
they're really eating and Mr. Pace says man this is the best best food that I've ate for a long long
35:16
time and Jack Runner was the manager he says yeah he says race practicing up on his cooking so when
35:23
he gets so crippled up he can't ride anymore he can cook on these ranches and and he said it in
35:31
just and we all laughed about it but when they left I got I was just thinking about that and I
35:35
think I thought about that and thought about that and I thought you know I've worked enough of these
35:41
ranches that had some old broken-up cowboy there that that had a place to stay and bed bunk you know
35:49
and and meals and and he always had the gush-offless jobs and I thought you know I just don't want to
35:56
do that so anyway so it kind of brought me back to what Kenneth and I was talking about prior to
36:03
that and and he was he was gonna leave their ads and go to California and learn go to work for a
36:10
rain trout a cow horse trainer and and learn a different something different and I and I thought
36:18
I'm gonna start building saddles well we talked about this for at nights for two weeks you know and
36:25
and he kept saying now you need to build boots so that's how I got started in the boot making
36:32
I thought I thought you know I need to I need to find out who this Jesus is so I thought I need to
36:40
buy a Bible I need to go to church and I need to start praying and so it was another I was like
36:49
89 miles from town so it was another four months or so before I I finally quit and found a job
36:58
closer to town and and started doing that an interesting thing on that is is when what rocked
37:06
along for for about five years close to five years and I had had a friend
37:18
that lived in town and and he had a some evangelist was coming to their church and
37:27
and he says this guy is going to be here Friday Saturday and Sunday and he says I'd like to have
37:35
you come listen to him he says he's he's a guy that
37:38
does this at livestock shows and rodeos and you know he he says I think you'd enjoy him I says
37:47
yeah I'll try to get there and you know what the word try means don't you yeah exactly it
37:52
basically means you're not going to do that's a polite way saying I'm not coming yeah there's no
37:56
way so so he but he pursued me and pursued me and pursued me and finally he called me
38:04
Sunday early afternoon he says this guy is going to be here tonight the last time he's going to be
38:12
here would you come and I says I'll be there so I drove down went to it and and I can't tell you
38:18
what he talked about have no idea don't you remember he sang a little plate of piano and had a message
38:27
and all that and but when I'd walked in there I walked through the door and it was all about three
38:33
steps to the back pews and I sat down right on the right next to the alleyway or the not the alleyway
38:43
but the aisle so I could get up and I could leave so he was up there front and I could tell he was
38:50
coming to the end and so when he did I just stood up and I turned around and had about a step and
39:00
a half and he was standing between me and the door and I have to this I this day I have no idea
39:04
how he got down there that fast and how he got there but he he just had a smile on his face and
39:12
he looked me in the eye and he says have you asked Jesus to be your lord and savior and I says no
39:17
I haven't he says really easy we can do it right now and I says no I think I'll think about it
39:24
and he stepped away and I walked out the reason I bring that up is the fact that for
39:31
four or five years I've been reading my bible I've been praying and I've been going to church
39:38
to what avail sure how many people spend their whole life in church and never never have made
39:46
that commitment and you've got to it bible's pretty specific about it speak it with your mouth and
39:53
believe it in your heart you know and you've got to it so anyway that was a after that and I went
40:00
home that night and my wife at the time had left and I had moved everything out of the house and
40:09
so I'm sitting on the floor there and I had my bible and I'm thinking about that and so I asked
40:16
Jesus that night to be my lord and savior that I needed needed him and anyway I from that from
40:25
that horse wreck my life changed tremendously although I thought I was going the right direction
40:36
seeking Jesus I really hadn't all the knowledge on that but out of that also I I decided I was
40:44
going to be a bootmaker and and I went to Utah and paid a bootmaker teach me how
40:49
which was a two-week course and I left out of there and he said I was a master bootmaker
40:58
after two weeks that's not bad I've been doing it over 38 years and I and I don't consider myself
41:04
one now at all but because I learned something all the time but but anyway Nate deal about it was
41:15
I had I went back to my hometown and set a shop up there and and started building boots
41:25
but early on I met a guy out of Fairfax, Oklahoma back to actually I had called I was at that
41:36
period of time there's a boot company out of Fairfax, Oklahoma called Griffith Butcher Boots
41:44
and had a long history of going quarterback to Gus Blutcher went went to uh Justin
41:51
and it'll really a neat neat history and story there but
41:55
they had a stronghold of bootmakers or cowboys buying boots from them in western uh Nebraska
42:09
western Dakotas eastern Montana and eastern Wyoming and one of their one of their biggest
42:15
selling boots they sold these guys was a wax trench calf because it's a good work boot leather and
42:21
it wears and lasts so I had a guy ordered a pair of wax trench calf and so I ordered
42:27
a ordered a hide out of a place in Tucson and I got it and it just didn't look like what I thought
42:35
it should look like so I knew Blutcher that was there one of their big selling leather so I called
42:43
hunted up in the western horsemen their phone number and called them up and this guy answers
42:47
and I tell them who I am and what I do and I'm what I'm wanting to talk to somebody about
42:52
what wax trench calf really looks like and so the conversation ended up to be about 45 minutes
42:59
close to an hour and he says why don't you come down to Oklahoma he says I might be able to show
43:06
you some things and and I can tell you some laughs I got some laughs down here so I says well who am
43:14
I talking to and he says well this is Jay Griffiths I says okay I says I'll be down in a I'll come
43:19
down tomorrow so the next morning I came down to Oklahoma and went in and introduced myself and
43:25
visited with him a little bit and he took me in the back and and they had 20 some employees back
43:30
there and he just took me around introduced me to all the employees and and turned me loose for
43:34
about 10 days or so I was there and and I learned a lot just by watching and and
43:43
I didn't interrupt anybody but somebody wanted to say something to me so so I went back home
43:53
and Jay called and wrote me for almost seven years wanting me to go to work for him and in the
44:00
meantime he had uh sold his interest out and he'd moved to go through Oklahoma so I I thought at
44:09
one point in time I thought you know I need to go down there and then go to work for him because
44:14
I could probably learn something he'd been building those 50-some years so I called him up and says
44:20
you're still interested in me coming down there to go to work for him he says yeah I said I'll
44:24
head out tomorrow so I came down that's how I got to Oklahoma I was I was curious because you know
44:29
we talked and we met in Oklahoma but I mean every part of your story has had a lot to do with
44:33
everything except Oklahoma so I'm glad you're glad you got to that so I get to go through Oklahoma
44:38
and it was in April 13th 1989 and 10 days later they had the 100th year celebration for the land run
44:51
which they still have today yet even but that was the 100th year celebration of it and that parade
45:00
they had for it was four hours and 45 minutes long there's a largest parade I've ever seen in my
45:06
life it was really it was amazing pretty neat so anyway I'm down here and I and and I'm thinking
45:13
you know I'm going to be here for two years that this is what I'd set my mind because there's way
45:20
too many people and there's way too many trees I can't see anywhere okay and I still can't see
45:27
anywhere yeah I'm still in got through Oklahoma however many years it's been but oh 30 years
45:35
isn't that something that's nuts I'll tell you something interesting I I had my shop I worked for
45:43
Jay for probably about two years and then I moved in with a saddle maker uh blocked south of here
45:52
and what was Guthrie's very first leverage stable and uh and then I still went up to help Jay
46:00
but uh I was driving through town one morning it was early and uh or somebody met me in a car
46:12
and they waved I waved a couple people on the street walk along here waved and I thought you know
46:19
I've been here long enough that people recognize me I thought how long I've been here and I thought
46:26
oh I've been here five years man that's almost too long because that's the longest I'd lived
46:30
anywhere my life sure my whole life five years and uh so anyway I'm still here people are good
46:40
I still got a brother in in Wyoming it's got a ranch there I can go out there anytime I want
46:44
and all I have to do actually is drive about 10 miles west of Guthrie and that opens up but
46:51
nothing like the high plains but it's not you can see some yeah absolutely the cool thing about that
47:00
is it is kind of good to get the story of how people settle where they find home to be because
47:05
you know I'm from Lawton was there for you know 18 years Lawton Oklahoma moved to Edmond so I've
47:08
kind of settled in Edmond that's where my wife and I are here now but the thing that's interesting is
47:13
is how you could be in a place like Guthrie Oklahoma which most people can't find on a map
47:18
and to be able to produce the things that you produce and so you may not consider yourself
47:22
a master boot maker but I think everybody else on the planet especially anyone that's got a pair
47:25
of your boots would definitely consider you that so kind of take us through the process of you've
47:30
got someone that contacts you somehow or they walk into your shop and they say hey I want a pair of
47:35
boots kind of kind of walk us through what that process looks like that's uh I learned it took me
47:44
a little while to figure this out when I first started building boots because there's a myriad
47:50
of colors and leathers and and somebody'd want to come in and never had a pair of boots before and
47:57
they'd want to order a pair of boots and so I'd scatter all this leather out and start talking this
48:02
and that and and it's uh it's interesting because we've got we've got this
48:11
I don't know what it built in mechanism in us that we go into a store and we see something
48:23
we like that's finished whatever it might be even if it's a garden hose you know and and we know
48:31
what it looks like and this is what we want and so I would get so many uh variables out there that
48:41
they would be confused and they would say well I don't not sure let me think about this and then
48:46
I'd never see them again so and that that went on for a few years from early beginnings of my boot
48:55
making and so then I I learned to uh when somebody was interested in a pair of boots and one pair of
49:01
boots that I'd some of I'd ask them questions like what do you want to do with them you know do you
49:07
want to sure enough work in them do you want them for casual do you want them for dress what some
49:13
colors that you like or what some colors you don't like and then that gives me a a a point where I can
49:21
bring out certain things that fit in their catech and they're in their idea of what they're looking
49:27
for and so that makes that process of of of the design easy or easier and that's that that part
49:41
of it and and usually that's the second part I go through but uh that part can take 10 minutes or
49:50
half hour but the important part is the first part that's the measurements and and that's where I
49:57
take a line measurement around each foot and then take a tape measurement with circumference on
50:03
eight different points on each foot and leg and and then that is what the what the boots are made
50:11
from that the measurements you use a compute the measurements into paper patterns and and then cut
50:16
out the leather and in the process of building boots from that point on is just assembling and
50:25
whatever needs to be done and so so for you because there's a lot of guys out there that that own
50:30
Western boots you and I kind of met because I was so frustrated with the process of finding
50:34
boots that kind of fit my foot because I mean obviously you know this every foot's a little
50:38
different you're left and right foot are probably different sizes they're they're not the exact
50:41
same so what is the difference for you that you can communicate to our listeners in terms of if
50:47
you just go into the store and you go into some Western store and you buy a pair of boots and
50:51
you pull them on and you just kind of make do versus what you do which is literally custom
50:55
making a boot around someone's foot yes I have custom make uh and they're made to measure custom
51:03
made boots could be you could you could pick out the colors and the leathers you want and they just
51:11
put them on a build a boot on a standard last but made to measure computes all them measurement
51:17
you take into that process it fits your foot for first and foremost you don't have any
51:28
loose spots where you shouldn't have them don't have any extra tight spots where you shouldn't have
51:33
that's what wears out footwear but you got a you got a piece of footwear that fit your foot
51:38
and the mechanics of your foot how it operates when you're walking that that causes these boots to be
51:46
long wearing extremely comfortable I've I've had people that have worn boots
51:56
but not a custom made to measure boot and and they'll say they want to they'll want them
52:02
a dress boot they want to wear on sundies or to weddings and I says
52:07
that's fine but I know once you start wearing them you'll you'll want to wear them more than those
52:14
because it's a it's a fit a feeling that you can't imagine when I was uh I bought a pair of boots
52:22
Kenneth my buddy I talked about I was uh I was uh
52:27
where was I at I don't remember I was in Nebraska or Dakota's at the time but anyway he came through
52:36
from one job to another and stopped spent a few days with me and he had on a pair of
52:41
black wax calf with bright red tops and a white band on the top and and just a neat looking pair
52:50
of boots and I said where'd you get them boots he says well I ordered them
52:53
uh and so I at that point in time I didn't know you could go I didn't I had no idea you could
53:01
order a pair of boots made to measure any way you wanted them I just didn't know that and
53:06
so I I found out where he got him uh I wrote wrote him and they sent me an order for him and I
53:17
I uh filled out the order for him and did the measurements didn't quite understand them
53:24
sent it back they sent me pair of boots there were some things that didn't fit the foot fit
53:29
tops were way too big so I called him up or an error and wrote a letter I suppose I
53:37
wrote a letter because I didn't have a phone but anyway um they got back with me told me how
53:42
it's supposed to measure but anyway even though they weren't perfect they were better than anything
53:47
I had ever worn in my life and uh they fit a stirrup and I wrote an oxbow stirrup which
53:53
probably most people won't know what that is but it comes down underneath your shank it's a little
53:59
narrow stirrup kind of round shaped and uh if you got a if if you got a poor pair of boots you know
54:09
it pretty quick if you got a good pair of boots you know it immediately so anyway these these
54:15
boots were just phenomenal I and I and they cost me at that time uh four hundred and
54:22
about fifty dollars somewhere right in there and uh and I was only making four hundred I think it was
54:30
four four twenty five I believe actually what it was that doesn't matter but anyway uh but
54:38
wasn't that about a month's wages at that point would you maybe I was making four hundred and
54:42
fifty dollars right wages yeah so I got the boots got figured out how to measure them right and
54:49
I started saving some money and I ordered another pair and they were perfect I came into camp that
54:57
evening that those boots had came UPS had delivered them and I thought and that was a
55:04
Friday night and I thought man I'm going to town so I shower up and I pulled on my new boots and
55:09
I had some horses in a pen out there that I had to turn out and I walked out there to turn them
55:16
horses out and there was a little piece of barbed wire sticking up out of the ground and I've been
55:20
across there not a million times but a lot of times didn't know it was there it never sought
55:25
in there anyway I caught that barbed and I had probably had them boots on fifteen minutes and I
55:32
cut across the toe on me now I can see that you guys can see this but I can see the pain in his
55:39
face as he's describing this and I can feel it definitely a golly but anyway so I was going
55:47
somewhere with that story um for that whole the fit the fit what's interesting uh boot maker
55:58
today learned to build boots that in or at uh out there in Utah and nothing against him
56:05
at all but he built a different type of boot uh he was more of a shoe man
56:13
in fact uh Randy Merrill was his name and he was the uh co-founder of Merrill hiking boots
56:24
which probably many people would know but sure uh he has since sold his interest out on that but
56:30
and they were there were a nice boot in fact right there above your heads the second pair of boots
56:36
I ever made and I made them there at Randy's cool and they look like a cowboy boot yeah they do
56:44
they look like they've been warned for sure so anyway when I went to work for Jay Griffith
56:47
um some point in the time I I decided I wanted to build a pair of boots and he builds them
56:54
he builds boots completely different the way I learned and uh so I got a pair of boots built
57:02
and I got them finished and and in his shop uh predominantly where I worked was in the back
57:08
of the shop and a few steps up and I pulled them boots on and I walked down and they walked
57:13
like they were going to walk out from under me they walked so well but I learned a lot from him
57:20
on on how to do that and it's the the basis the bed under under your foot
57:28
uh between it between the insole and the outsole and and it's a positioning of that heel under there
57:35
and um I have people that say that they couldn't couldn't wear a a two inch heel or
57:43
riding heel and I said I could put you a four inch heel under there and you could walk because I can't
57:50
think I can't walk in them but it's a it's a balance and a leveling that's really important
57:55
and I and I'm not kidding they do they feel like they just want to walk out from under you
58:00
uh it's just an amazing feel you know so let's see I was going with I kind of get scattered I'm
58:11
apologizing no that's really good when you're talking when you're talking about fit and because
58:15
when most people go to a store which is where we kind of start this whole deal you just kind of
58:19
pull them on and if your toes aren't completely crunched and if you don't feel like you've got
58:23
you know something stabbing you in the bottom of your foot you kind of just make do with it you
58:27
know what I mean yep and that brings to another point uh a lot of times as I'm measuring and then
58:34
and one thing I measure is the length and that gives me a ballpark figure of what last I want
58:42
to go pull off the shelf uh for lengthwise the really important measurements from the inside ball
58:48
to the back of your heel so anyway I'm measuring that and say it's uh it measures out a nine and a
58:56
half and a guy up will look and see that and see me write that down and says I don't wear a nine
59:01
and a half I wear a ten and a half and I says well you wear a nine and a half that's what you need
59:06
to wear and that and that's happened a lot and and I happen to have an old gentleman come in the shop
59:12
that was a boot and shoe salesman for like 40 some years and I got to talking about that and he said
59:20
well you know why that is I said no I don't understand that he says you go into a shoe store and you buy
59:27
a pair of shoes or a boots and they measure you he says if they measure you and get you the pair
59:34
that fits you there'll be a little tight but and you probably won't buy them he says he measure you
59:40
a little bigger so that you'll walk out of the store with a purchase and I thought well that's
59:45
kind of interesting I don't know if that's true across the board but I would probably think it is
59:52
there it was at one time yeah I mean I certainly think that's true when you have people that are
59:56
trying to find find the right fit if it doesn't feel good in the store there's very few people
1:00:01
that are going to allow that to continue outside the store like they want to feel good inside the
1:00:06
store they want to look good hey honey do these look good yeah they look good and then you got to
1:00:09
move on move on with your day a little bit so one thing that I've I've heard you talk about before
1:00:14
is that you know and you mentioned it earlier in this podcast you've had people that have come to
1:00:19
you from all over the world to get boots made and so this is kind of a two part question and you may
1:00:24
not even remember one part but how many boots do you think that you mean you have made how many
1:00:29
pairs of boots have have you made in your life and if you can divulge this information
1:00:34
who are some of the notable people over the years that we would recognize that you've made a pair
1:00:39
of boots for uh I can tell you how many I've built I have no idea just wait too many huh yeah
1:00:48
wait too many uh and I've never kept track of it I could probably and and I can tell you this I
1:00:57
could go through my books which we use I use a ledger book for for orders and I could get you
1:01:04
the ones that are in there and I could count them up but there's many many boots that somebody just
1:01:10
calls up that's got boots before and say I want a pair of boots and I just mark it down somewhere
1:01:15
and I build them so there's a lot of a lot of boots have no record other than scrap paper
1:01:22
somewhere which probably is gone but anyway but if you had to guess like I want to try to get
1:01:26
something like is it somewhere between you know 750 and a thousand is it more like 10,000 like
1:01:32
if you if you had to guess and get get as close as you could
1:01:40
well I've been building boots over 38 years and so figure if I built
1:01:45
let's make it easy made 30 pair of boots a year although there was one year that I did
1:01:53
twice that many by myself right uh you know there's I don't know what that figured come up too but
1:02:01
we'll call it a lot there's a lot a lot of boots and so you you've got you know you said about 85%
1:02:09
of uh you've said before that about 85% of the boots that you've sold have been to working cowboys
1:02:13
but again to to that original question who are some of the notable people if you can tell us like
1:02:18
we're not going to put any pressure on you but if you can tell us who are some of those people
1:02:20
that you've built you can never put pressure on me okay good good fair enough and I'm not going
1:02:25
to tell you oh come on okay you can like maybe a hint like a like a hint towards somebody I just
1:02:30
it's not a big deal to me and and I think I've got them because I don't make a big deal out of it
1:02:38
okay so I just uh if I don't ever divulge that to anybody fair enough well maybe one day maybe one
1:02:43
day when the microphones aren't on like I'll catch you at a bad moment and you'll just like kind of
1:02:48
let one slip or I might still one of your ledger books or something like that we can figure it out
1:02:52
okay I will give you I'll give you one yes zero guys I did this just for you here we go all right
1:02:56
give me one uh a car manufacturer out of Japan okay and that's all you're gonna give us all right
1:03:04
guys that is for you to guess and for him to know so uh one one quote that I heard from you before and
1:03:09
I really love this quote but I want to get a little bit more context from it because uh the
1:03:13
guy that actually didn't really give you a whole lot of uh runway to talk through it some more
1:03:17
but you said that you feel you literally feel like there's a part of you in every boots it
1:03:21
every pair of boots that you've made yes sir and I just want you to kind of give our listeners a
1:03:25
little bit of a better idea what does that mean because you got guys no matter what their occupation
1:03:29
they feel like you know if they're if they're doing a tax return you know hey there's a part of
1:03:33
me in this tax return but maybe it doesn't feel that way uh but for you I mean you're a craftsman
1:03:38
like at the core level what you do you're an artisan you're a craftsman you're you're actually
1:03:41
building these things but when you say that there's a part of you in every pair of boots that you
1:03:45
make what do you mean tell us sir tell us about that that is uh that's a good question I like that
1:03:52
it is as a craftsman and I think you could relate this to any craftsman that spends
1:04:02
hours producing something and using their hands and and and through the whole process of it it's
1:04:11
like you you create well you can look at look around see all this leather laying here it's flat leather
1:04:18
you know and uh actually I looked up there because I used to have a lot of leather hanging up there
1:04:24
and I put junk hanging up there now but uh but it's over there under them benches and whatnot but
1:04:31
anyway you take something that's that is well we'll just use a flat piece of leather and you create a
1:04:41
piece of footwear that is no longer one-dimensional but three-dimensional and functional you know
1:04:50
it's just you have created that's as close as creation I think as we can we can be uh other than maybe
1:05:00
being fruitful and producing children and that's what I relate it to you know it's just it's
1:05:07
you've got you put so much and I and I and any craftsman I would have to say any craftsman that
1:05:15
spends any time at that at their craft has that same feeling they put so much of their selves into
1:05:22
each thing that they create in fact it's interesting to me because there's times that I will
1:05:30
I will finish something and even even if it's it's not to my perfection that I mean not that
1:05:39
anything's wrong with it but I wanted to be perfect and I've never made a perfect boot in fact Jay
1:05:46
Griffith told me one time he says when I make a perfect pair of boots I'm quitting but he never
1:05:51
did quit you know it's just that continually wanting to do better and do better it's a hard thing to
1:05:57
be a perfectionist because you'll never accomplish your goal but at any rate uh so I have a tendency
1:06:07
to let them sit here I don't call them up or I don't ship them out they're finished
1:06:14
and I certainly could use the the balance due on them but it's hard to turn them loose sometimes
1:06:22
I'll find myself getting to a point where they're getting close to being finished I don't go off and
1:06:27
start another pair of boots because I'm not quite ready to turn loose of that that sounds kind of
1:06:32
crazy to me as I'm talking about it I don't I don't think about it when I'm doing it but now
1:06:36
that you've asked the question I think man what's wrong with that guy you know you you put so much
1:06:42
effort into something and you you see the value you also I mean you want people to pull on the boots
1:06:48
right when they get here and walk out the door with them you don't want them to walk out in the
1:06:51
same shoes that they walked in and and it's just a different level most of these guys that are
1:06:55
listening to this you may not they may not have something in their life that is like that that
1:07:00
they put so much effort into they they kind of lose track of time and that the product on the
1:07:05
other end is something that I mean it's something real it's something tangible you know I'll work
1:07:09
hard on a podcast and then I just kind of shoot it out there into the ether and then just hope
1:07:13
people listen to it don't think I'm a complete moron but like but at the end of the day you're
1:07:17
doing something that that can last it can be an heirloom item it's something that somebody can look
1:07:22
over on the shelf and point to and say hey I got a pair of boots from Ray Doarwart but I want to go
1:07:26
back to the time that you and I actually met and so to kind of bring listeners up to speed a little
1:07:31
bit I was having a ton of trouble finding boots because I've got a long skinny foot I've got high
1:07:36
arches you know it just kind of one of those deals that whenever I was just buying shoes or
1:07:41
buying boots off the off the shelf they just weren't really fitting quite right so I went through a
1:07:45
couple of different pairs of boots had to like resell them to friends or whatever the situation
1:07:49
was and so someone told me hey you might you might look at a custom boot maker that might be your
1:07:53
solution so I found this article with like the top 50 boot makers custom boot makers in Texas
1:07:59
right and they're they're all over the place in Texas these towns I've never heard of and I was
1:08:03
like well why would I go to Texas let me see if I can find one in Oklahoma so I do a quick google
1:08:08
search and and then yours your shop was the first one that popped up because I live in Edmond just
1:08:12
north of Edmond is the town of Guthrie so I was like hey perfect let's let's go figure this out so
1:08:16
I call you up on the phone you answer and we kind of start chatting it up a little bit and I kind of
1:08:20
get an idea your process and all that and then I ask you you know how much you do boots kind of
1:08:24
start out because I saw in an article that I was going to be like more like 600 650 something like
1:08:28
that and I don't know how old that article was bow bow his apprentice looked at me right now he's
1:08:33
like what 650 what are you talking about and so that's kind of what I had in my head I was like
1:08:37
oh that's gonna be a little bit stretch but we'll see and so I call and you say yeah the boots start
1:08:40
around about 3000 and in my head I think my head like short like my brain short circuited a little
1:08:46
bit I was like wait I either didn't hear that right or or something's just completely wrong with me
1:08:51
and so I'm like oh my gosh I don't want to waste anymore my time I certainly don't want to waste
1:08:54
more of this guy's time I need to get off the phone and so I'm trying to you know wrap the phone
1:08:59
call up and you just go hey hey Kyle how did you hear about us and I was like oh you know I saw you
1:09:04
on google and all that but what ended up happening is you and I stayed on the phone with one another
1:09:08
for about another 10 minutes or so and we started talking about about me why I was looking for boots
1:09:13
we started talking about my ministry we started talking a little bit about your upbringing
1:09:16
and you even got emotional a couple times kind of talking whenever I was telling you about my
1:09:20
ministry and like I was so inspired by our little 10 minute chat that I just hopped in my truck and
1:09:25
drove up to Guthrie I was like I gotta meet this guy I gotta meet him and just kind of talk to him
1:09:30
I hung out for a couple hours in your shop asking you a bunch of questions you showed me around and
1:09:33
it was a cool deal but I think the thing that may have triggered that that reaction from you is I
1:09:38
mentioned that this ministry is is mainly for the guys that might find themselves on the fringes
1:09:43
the guys that are a little rougher around the edges so I normally talk about you know the MMA fighter
1:09:47
the former military the police officer but you can certainly put a cowboy or a rodeo person like
1:09:52
someone that's that's in in that kind of kind of rougher style of things a lot of those guys walk
1:09:58
into a church and they don't see themselves and the guys that are walking around there they don't
1:10:02
see themselves in the pastor they're just like and they get this false dichotomy that I talk about
1:10:06
all the time that they're like okay I can either be a man or I can be a Christian I certainly can't
1:10:11
do both at the same time there's no such thing as a masculine Christian and I think that really
1:10:16
really kind of resonated with you so I wanted to kind of have you talk a little bit more about
1:10:20
that because I've thought about that conversation a lot and kind of your reaction to it but whenever
1:10:23
I say something like that that's like hey you know sometimes guys miss out on who Jesus is because
1:10:29
they look at his followers and think I don't want him to really be like that guy that's that's true
1:10:34
and I and I told you earlier that that I knew I believed there was a god and I believed that his
1:10:40
son Jesus came to earth in a flash but all through that period of time when I was going to Sunday
1:10:48
school and church it was like Jesus was meek and meek was like milk toast you know I mean it was
1:10:57
it just did not fit you know I told you my dad reading all them books to us you know that those
1:11:05
were books of men when I consider men you know manly just I can't there's just some when that word
1:11:21
comes well I'll give you this example and I don't I don't say this is a good deal
1:11:31
but when I was I actually started chewing when I was I don't know sixth grade
1:11:44
plug tobacco and leaf tobacco and only because my brother and our two friends all one summer
1:11:54
deal of all over the country putting up pay for people picking up pay and a lot of them guys
1:12:02
tuned and of course so anyway but when I was 16 I found Copenhagen and at that time Copenhagen came
1:12:13
in a I don't know probably still does I don't buy it anymore but came in a wax paper can
1:12:21
with lid on it metal lid but it said on there the snuff men like best and I'm pretty sure that is
1:12:30
none of them anymore but that that kind of gives you idea man this is this is this is a manly right
1:12:38
this is what men do yeah you know and and uh but this was the best it's unflavored you know and
1:12:47
fine cut and you got to keep track of it in your mouth and and it's stout and all that you know
1:12:54
yeah just whatever but uh yeah that manly thing and that so that's why that's why I went the different
1:13:02
way when I when I graduated high school and left home I didn't I didn't look back you know and I
1:13:10
because that's why I liked it so well I put the pine ridge res you know it it was that was
1:13:18
a wild place then that was right started uh kind of during the aim movement which was if anybody
1:13:28
knows what that was it was American Indian movement and uh just a lot of friction and stuff going on
1:13:38
there and and anyway in fact I had camp I was in there I had uh two BIA cops uh was shotgun to the
1:13:49
back of the head to the pickup window you know I mean just uh there was another guy
1:13:56
that disappeared uh uh Tex horse was his name and and uh an Indian and they found him that spring
1:14:05
after a melt that he'd been uh somebody put a axe in the back of his head left him lay out there
1:14:14
you know and it just I mean I'm not that that's manly but I mean that was just that rough and
1:14:21
and uh not being I don't know there's more there's more to it than just fighting and all that I mean
1:14:30
it's just uh having principles and and living by them the standing by them and it kind of goes back
1:14:41
to uh that statement John Wayne made in a in the movie shoot us you know I won't have a manly hand
1:14:47
on me or you know uh basically you don't look for trouble but you don't back up from it
1:14:55
and you got a job do you go do a job whatever it is there's more to it than that but I well
1:15:06
something you you said earlier you talked about Jesus being meek and mild that's how he's always
1:15:11
described oh Jesus is just kind of cute cutesy guy that's you know never too mad and he just
1:15:16
kind of he's kind of he's really easy to deal with and that's why we talk about the line to Judah
1:15:20
all the time but the thing about about meekness that that certainly doesn't mean weakness you
1:15:24
guys have heard that but one of the better ways of explaining meekness is someone who has the
1:15:29
capability of righteous aggression and can use it but they leave their sword she'd right and so
1:15:35
but and that's kind of goes to that John Wayne quote to where it's like no no no it's kind of in
1:15:40
Eve talk Chronicles and Arne Narnia there's stuff in there where it's like you know they ask you
1:15:44
know about Aslan who's who is God you know in line form or whatever it's like you know is he is he
1:15:50
dangerous it's like oh yes he's very dangerous but he's good and so that's the thing that I think
1:15:54
about for for the the target that most men should should shoot for is that you should be in an
1:16:00
unbelievably dangerous person and I mean that spiritually mentally and physically like you
1:16:05
or someone to reckon with in a conversation or a debate when someone's spewing some sort of crazy
1:16:10
ideology whether it be political or social or something like that you can get in the fray and
1:16:14
fight but also if someone does lay a hand on you or a hand on an innocent person right talk about
1:16:21
just war theory and why we're fighting wars overseas that some people don't understand
1:16:25
well it's like when certain people can't defend themselves you need sheepdogs you need men of God
1:16:29
that can enter that fray and protect those individuals and that's something that I feel like that is
1:16:34
that is lost when a lot of the modern generation and I think that's something that that you connect
1:16:39
with that point of view is that right that's exactly right absolutely and you know when I found out
1:16:47
and it was and actually many years after I had accepted Jesus what the word me really meant
1:16:54
I thought wow you know how could such a a word be misconstrued for so many years
1:17:06
you know me can turn the neck other cheek and and all that you know but that's not what it really
1:17:14
means that's not the meaning of it and and I had really realized long prior to finding out what
1:17:23
that word really meant was a fact of of Jesus this man who ultimately was disfigured beyond recognition
1:17:39
as a man and and had all authority and all power but did not retaliate that's not a noctose man
1:18:00
and think about him you know he never coward from confronting the Pharisees never
1:18:10
you can always outsmart him yeah you know it just
1:18:22
he was truly a man's man and yeah so that's why that resonant annoying all that there's so much
1:18:31
more in there inside of me you know that I just I can't put words to it but that's what resonated
1:18:36
with me when you told me what your ministry did you know I could relate to it well that's that's
1:18:44
a good thing about this this ministry and about even conversations like this is that guys will
1:18:48
pull out things that that are that are hitting them where they are in their life and for whatever
1:18:54
reason the reason why we even do this is because that message resonates with so many different
1:18:58
people because I see it as unacceptable that a lot of ministries don't cater to those people they
1:19:03
got to keep the lights on they got it they got to pay everyone salaries and so they try to do
1:19:07
things that are palatable to the masses unfortunately what ends up happening is they make sure that
1:19:11
their stuff is palatable for the women which is is not inappropriate but to a certain degree you
1:19:16
can't expect them in to show up if you're not doing anything to cater to them and I think it's
1:19:20
it's important for us to have conversations like this it's important for us I know you share your
1:19:24
faith often it's important for us to talk to people in that way because we don't want there to be
1:19:30
some singular category of what it means to be a Christian man right and there should just be one
1:19:36
category because people should all be able to look at Jesus and just model after that but there's
1:19:41
there's a lot of Christian men they come in different shapes and sizes they have different
1:19:45
backgrounds some people sell insurance some people make boots it's just one of those things that you
1:19:49
can still be a disciple of the lion of Judah and the lamb of God all at the same time and to develop
1:19:55
yourself as a man so tell me he's coming back so is he coming back as a lamb no he's coming back
1:20:05
as a lion in the tribe of Judah right and that's the part of the Bible that people are like yeah
1:20:10
that's kind of harder to deal with and you don't hear a lot of pastors talk about him in in the in
1:20:14
the temple kind of turning over the tables and all that because that's not the blond hair blue-eyed
1:20:18
white guy Jesus that we're all like used to who's who's super calm and super relaxed and and that's
1:20:25
the thing that's why we talked about the lion to Judah so often is not because the lamb of God's
1:20:29
not important is because if you only look at God if you only look at Jesus as a lamb of God you're
1:20:33
looking at an incomplete picture yes right because he is certainly both of those things but I think
1:20:37
you you made the ultimate point which is when he was on the cross and and could have got himself
1:20:42
out of that situation he chose not to why did he choose not to because of us yeah because there
1:20:48
was no other way for us to get to God there was no other way for us to bridge the gap of sin that
1:20:53
is on all of us the stain of sin is on all of us even the best of us and so he he left his sword
1:20:59
she'd and he and he took the pain and a lot of us guys I mean I encourage you guys to work out all
1:21:04
time I encourage them to train jujitsu and do hard stuff and most guys don't do that stuff because
1:21:08
gosh darn it's just too hard it's too physically hard and mentally I just don't know if I can
1:21:13
hack it and you know I would fight in the spiritual realm but man I'll just let my pastor do that
1:21:18
for me but no if you're gonna be a real man if you're gonna be a disciple of the lion of the tribe
1:21:24
of Judah it requires a little bit more sacrifice out of you and it requires a different level of
1:21:29
input you know what I mean yes sir so Ray we've gone everywhere in this conversation but I feel
1:21:36
like if I keep you distracted any longer that there's going to be somebody that is ordered a pair of
1:21:40
boots from you that is not going to get them on time and I definitely don't want to be that way
1:21:44
but before we let you go is there anything else you want to get off your chest
1:22:00
and I just love my Lord Jesus with all my heart it's interesting it's interesting to me because
1:22:12
I used to not get emotional about stuff at all not at all I mean to the point where
1:22:24
make me weepy-eyed or or funny-talking you know and it's been in the last probably the last 15 years
1:22:33
it's really come on and I and it's because I think so much of that
1:22:47
is the compassion that I've that he's put in my heart from just spending time with him and and
1:22:54
reading that word and it's so important to read that word you got to read it every day you need
1:23:04
to read it every day and says renew your mind daily not once a week or once every Christmas or
1:23:16
whatever you know every day renew it you know and it's just the what is a relationship he wants a
1:23:22
relationship and what is a relationship what is it it's spending time with somebody
1:23:29
you have a relationship with your wife I hope you're spending time with your wife you know
1:23:35
or a friend relationship with a friend
1:23:45
a relationship with a dog you know that's pretty important I
1:23:54
I had a Bible study in in my shop in this shop at one time for about a year that I had somebody
1:24:02
else doing it and one night Neil is up there talking about something and and it had nothing to do with
1:24:14
what came to my mind but Lord said I want a relationship with you now and it was just like
1:24:21
it opened up my eyes because up to that point I was I had been working for a relationship for
1:24:30
once I get to to heaven but he wants a relationship now right now and just builds builds day after day
1:24:39
and eventually when we can stand in his presence we've already already had a relationship that's
1:24:46
built you know that's pretty neat absolutely well Ray I appreciate all time that you've given us
1:24:52
today I think that's a good place is any to stop so Ray Dorewart thanks for coming on Undaunted Life
1:24:56
of Man's podcast thank you for inviting me to give me this opportunity to to do this I truly appreciate
1:25:10
it well there you go guys I hope you enjoyed that episode about as much as I enjoyed having
1:25:12
that conversation with Ray Dorewart I just got to tell you guys this is a good episode to share
1:25:16
around so share around with people in your life that maybe grew up doing some of the work that you
1:25:21
would see on a farm or maybe they helped run cattle or they were real-life cowboys one thing I got
1:25:25
to tell you I'm really excited to share this episode with my grandpa I got to figure out a way to get
1:25:29
him to listen to it but this is one of those things that he would be very interested in hearing about
1:25:33
Ray and his life and the things he's been able to do all right guys before we let you go we are
1:25:37
going to do a quick resilience boost as you know by now we are a men's ministry and our mission is
1:25:41
cultivating manly resilience specifically we do that by providing content like this podcast that
1:25:46
forges spiritual mental and physical toughness so for you today I've got a couple of videos of other
1:25:51
interviews that have been done with Ray Dorewart over the years so there's two youtube links there so
1:25:55
you can check those out thank you guys so much for listening to this podcast I really appreciate
1:25:59
it please subscribe on apple podcast iTunes Spotify Google podcast or Stitcher and refer your
1:26:04
friends to listen and share this on social media if we deserve a five star review please leave us
1:26:09
one because that is how this podcast is going to continue to grow and get out to the right audience
1:26:13
I'm currently booking speaking engagements for the remainder of 2020 so if you want me to come
1:26:17
speak on your podcast at your men's event to your team your business whatever hit me up info at
1:26:21
undaunted.life the email is info at undaunted.life the website is www.undaunted.life you can follow us
1:26:28
on instagram and twitter at undaunted.life or facebook.com backslash undaunted.life check out our free
1:26:33
devotionals on the uversion bible app just search undaunted life under plans and as always we want
1:26:38
to thank the band August Burns read for allowing us to use their entire music library for our content
1:26:43
the intro outro track on this podcast is our song king of sorrow which is off their latest record
1:26:47
entitled phantom anthem the links are in the description I'm your host Kyle Thompson remember
1:26:53
keep cultivating manly resilience keep forging spiritual mental and physical toughness
1:26:59
keep seeking the lion of juda