0:00
When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed! sponsored
0:05
jobs. It gives your job posts the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right
0:10
skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing
0:15
candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit at
0:20
indeed.com/podcast. That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero?
0:27
This is a job for Indeed! sponsored jobs. Struggling with weight loss? Prolon's five-day fasting
0:32
mimicking diet is a clinically developed nutrition program designed to promote fat loss while
0:37
protecting lean body mass. Developed at USC's Longevity Institute, it assists the body in entering
0:42
a fasting-like state that helps reset metabolism and target visceral fat. In just five days,
0:48
Prolon offers a science-backed approach to weight loss without extreme restriction or guesswork.
0:52
Get 15% off plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe at prolonlife.com/now.
0:58
This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
1:13
All right, guys, today we've got a very special interview and it's an interview with Matt Griner.
1:18
He is the drummer of my favorite metal core band out there and that is August Burns Red.
1:23
Guys, I talk about August Burns Red all the time, pretty much every episode because, again,
1:27
the intro, outro music on this podcast is their song "King of Sorrow", which is off their latest
1:32
record. And y'all hear me say that every time if you listen to the outro. But the thing about
1:37
Matt Griner is he's my favorite metal drummer. Yes, he's my favorite drummer on the planet. Yes,
1:41
I kind of win a little fanboy in the podcast, but that's all right. But the thing is, is they're
1:45
about to release their ninth full link studio album, August Burns Red is. And so this is a band
1:50
that's been around for a very, very long time. This band kind of started in that underground Christian
1:55
metal scene kind of in the solid state era, but their band came out of a small town in the middle
2:01
of Amish Country, Pennsylvania. And now they're literally one of the biggest metal bands in the
2:05
world. And so whenever I reached out to Matt to do this podcast, obviously we want to talk about
2:09
music. But here's the interesting thing about this podcast for any of you guys that are ready to
2:13
maybe skip this one, because you don't like August, August Burns ready. You don't know who Matt Griner
2:16
is. Maybe you're not into metal music. Here's the deal. We go into a lot of different areas.
2:20
We don't just talk about music. Okay. Because there was a big thing that happened with the band
2:26
whenever they kind of had to define what the band was going to be about. Is this a gospel-centered
2:30
band? Like what are we using God's name for? So there was an interesting bit of conversation that
2:35
happened around that. We also talk, you know, a little bit about society. We certainly talk about
2:39
the brand new album Guardians that's coming out at the beginning of April of this year. And that's
2:43
more towards the end. But guys, there's a lot of nuggets in here for you guys to take away.
2:47
This is a dude that grew up on a farm. This is a guy that works his butt off. So this isn't just
2:51
some sort of like, you know, weirdo artists. That's just like, you know, all about his drums, man.
2:56
Like that's just not what this podcast is going to be. So it's a fairly lengthy interview. And if
3:00
you've followed Matt Griner for any length of time, he doesn't normally do interviews of this link.
3:04
So we're incredibly appreciative of the fact that he gave us this amount of time. But I would
3:08
just encourage you to stick with this one, right? So if if we're kind of talking about some things
3:12
or some albums that maybe you're not familiar with, there's a lot of nuance in this. Again,
3:16
because he's not just some sort of like, dude, bro artists, like this is a guy that works really,
3:20
really hard as his craft. He treats drums like it's a business. And there's a lot that you can
3:25
learn from this podcast. All right, guys. So without further ado, let's get into it.
3:28
Matt Griner, welcome to Undaunted Life of Man's podcast. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.
3:35
Absolutely. I just got to tell you, and I'm going to get made fun of for this. But I don't care.
3:38
I'm going to fanboy a little bit on this podcast because you are my favorite drummer on Planet Earth
3:43
of any band. And so yeah, I know it's super sweet, isn't it? But here's the thing. I kind of secretly
3:48
wish that you could accidentally replace Lars and be the drummer for Metallica. I feel like that would
3:53
like really, really improve their band. But you know, we don't have to give him too much crap. But
3:56
the big, the big reason why I'm having you on the podcast is because last week,
4:00
y'all released the big news that you have a new album coming out on April 3rd. So it's called
4:04
Guardians and it is actually y'all's ninth full-length studio album. You can pre-order it now. It's
4:10
on augustburnsred.com. Don't worry, guys. I'll have the link in the show notes for you. And guys,
4:14
we're definitely going to talk about the new album. We're going to talk about your faith in
4:17
Christ. We're going to talk about a lot of music related things and a lot of things related to
4:21
August Burns Red. But I'd be remiss if we didn't actually start from the beginning. And that is,
4:26
you grew up on a farm. You grew up on a farm in the middle of basically nowhere Amish Country in
4:31
Lancaster, PA. And you still live there and you still work on the farm at the Griner farm with
4:37
your family. So what was it like for you because for a lot of us not growing up in that type of
4:41
environment? What was I like for you growing up there? Yeah, that is the beginning. It seems
4:47
like a lot of who I am today is because of the farm experience I had as a kid. You know,
4:54
it's I look back and I think about Saturdays. Most of my friends were watching cartoons,
5:03
watching TV, playing video games. That was like free for all day. For me, even still to this day,
5:10
if I'm watching TV on a Saturday morning at age 34, I feel guilty. The reason for that is on a farm,
5:22
it's all hands on deck really. I mean, there's always something to be done. There's always
5:29
work that needs to be attended to. Whether it's broken down machinery,
5:35
which in our case on our small farm is the case. We have very, very old equipment. The reason we
5:43
have very, very old equipment is because if we bought a new tractor, it would put our profit
5:51
in the ringer for about 10 years. Right. So it's more lucrative to just keep our 1970s,
5:58
all of our tractors running and spend 90% of our energy fixing broken things than it is to go out
6:06
and buy a new tractor and sort of sail away. So I was born and raised on a cash crop farm. Cash
6:12
crop farming in Pennsylvania means corn, soybeans, maybe wheat, and maybe hay. Cash crop implying
6:22
we do not have livestock. So we're growing, maintaining, harvesting, and drying down the crops
6:29
so that we can, in the end, sell it to local mills who will then distribute it to farmers,
6:36
who have dairy, pigs, chickens, any number of different livestock. So our job is really
6:42
just supplying farmers with what they need to complete their farmops. We have about 140 acres.
6:50
I have seven siblings. Did you know that? Is that online from where?
6:53
It's probably on Wikipedia, and I probably didn't believe it because I thought someone was
6:57
trolling, but that's crazy. It's true. Can you believe that? It's true, and also maybe as
7:07
unbelievable as the fact that they're all my best friends, and I didn't always get along with all
7:11
of them, but I don't have a lot of best friends who wouldn't usually say that, but it's true.
7:19
I look back, and I have four brothers and three sisters, and we work together on the farm,
7:25
and so it's created this bond that, you know, when you work with someone, it changes the dynamic
7:32
of your relationship if you're able to maintain the friendship. And if you are, then you have a
7:38
pretty good bond. So my big family all contributed to this farm, and there's not a lot of money in
7:47
it, but it is a lifestyle that created in me a sense of work ethic that has transcended
7:56
the boundaries of the farm and infiltrated every area, I guess, of who I am. So when I play drums,
8:04
I play with that same part of like, okay, it's Saturday morning. I could be doing X, Y, and Z.
8:09
I'm not going to do that. I'm going to practice. I'm on tour. I could be sitting on the bus, but I
8:16
want to get out and, you know, do some work or practice or warm up or go talk to some fans.
8:21
I guess some would call it a workaholic. I just, I really enjoy working. I definitely
8:28
to a fault find some of my identity in it, which I would attribute to the farm because you just
8:34
work. That's what you do. So to bring you up to speed last year, January, I met with my dad and
8:42
he said, are you ready to do this? I said, I'm ready. We drove to a office about 20 minutes from my house,
8:52
sat down with a lawyer, and I bought about half of the farm. Oh, wow. I now have ownership. So in
8:58
instead of it just being me working on the farm, I'm now paying the bills and have a best, you know,
9:05
a best interest in what happens and how successful it is. Well, that dude, that's, I did not know
9:10
that that's really awesome. You hit on a lot of things there, which is, you know, and we'll get
9:14
in this a little bit later as to kind of how August Burns Red even operates from a high level of
9:19
professionalism. But even just, I want to point out something very interesting you said about
9:23
your siblings and how those are your best friends. For a lot of people, it's kind of like cats and
9:26
dogs are oil and water with their siblings. But there's, there's even a nonprofit out here in my
9:31
area in Oklahoma called Family ID. And the guys that run it, it's like, you know, if you're fighting
9:35
with your siblings in the house, you don't get to go see your friends outside the house. I mean,
9:39
it's like your siblings are there for you and they are blood and, you know, they might be there
9:45
whenever you're best man from your wedding or your bridesmaid or something like that may not be
9:49
there. And so it's important that you have that relationship. But, you know, for any of you guys
9:53
that are worried that this is going to be an agricultural podcast, don't you worry because we're
9:56
getting into the to the music now, but you know, we got to kind of set the stage. So I appreciate you
10:01
but you doing that and congrats on buying part of the family farm. But I want to kind of flow on
10:06
just the whole Christian underground hardcore metal scene. Because when I was in like seventh or
10:12
eighth grade, I had a buddy from church hand me two albums and said go home and listen to these
10:16
today. And those two albums were reborn by living sacrifice and blood and fire by Zayo. And up to
10:23
that point, the hardest thing I'd ever heard was Metallica. But at that point in history, Metallica
10:28
was kind of in their load reload stage, right? So it wasn't, you know, master puppets. It wasn't
10:34
ride the lightning. It wasn't any of those types of things. But as soon as I put on the first track
10:39
on reborn by living sacrifice, reborn and powered, it just agreed with my pal for whatever reason.
10:44
It's like, I don't understand why this is so aggressive and why this is so crazy and why I like
10:48
it so much. So for you, like what song or what band or what album kind of pulled you into the world
10:55
of underground Christian metal or hardcore? Yeah, I mean, you couldn't have said it any better. That's
11:00
exactly what happened to me. When I first heard this kind of progressive, heavy alternative, I've
11:08
never heard this before, I'm bobbing my head on the downbeat, down on the upbeat, like everything
11:12
about it. Like you said, I agreed with your palette. It's like, I was made to listen to this. And I was,
11:19
I was homeschooled and probably somewhat sheltered in a Christian home where I wasn't really allowed
11:25
to listen to anything beyond the parameters of very mild Christian. You probably call it like
11:37
soft rock. I mean, at that point in the 90s, that would be the genre. But kind of like DC talk
11:43
or jars of clay, stuff like that. DC talk jars of clay a little bit, but definitely DC talk. My
11:48
first show was the Garmin key newsboys, of course, you know, all the classics. Right. And so I liked,
11:55
I liked music. I knew I enjoyed it, but I always looked at the drummer and I didn't start playing
12:02
until it's 15. And so preceding my sitting behind a kit and actually playing drums,
12:08
I knew that I understood what the drummer was doing, even though I had never played drums before.
12:15
And the same way that when you listen to that heavy music, you know, you're like, oh my gosh,
12:19
this is like, I get this. Like this is for me. This is the same way. The reason I fell into
12:25
heavy music though, my palette would be really centered around drums. It's always been about
12:30
drums. It's not about screaming. It's not about, it's not about the aggression. It's not about the
12:36
angst. I mean, it's, it is that for a lot of people. But for me, it was like, this is the hardest
12:42
drumming I've ever heard in my life. I cannot believe that this exists and that people listen
12:46
to it. But this is what I want to do. There's nothing else I want to do.
12:50
Well, that's the cool thing about that music is I agree with you because, you know, when you talk
12:54
about the screaming and that's usually hard for people to get past, but it's the level of
12:59
musicianship is to an extreme degree that people don't quite understand if they're not in the scene.
13:04
And so the scene itself, I feel like I grew up during the gold, the golden era of the solid state
13:11
era. So, you know, I started with living sacrifice and Zao and then it expanded, you know, to you
13:17
guys and undergrowth and the chariot and some of those bands. So kind of describe, because you came
13:22
up around the same time that I did the whole solid state scene. I know a lot of kids right now
13:26
that are listening to this are like, "Oh, solid state, I'm glad they're talking about it." But
13:29
just explain that effect on you, the whole solid state scene had because it still is niche. When
13:36
you look back in history, that was a niche scene, but it had such a profound impact.
13:40
It had a huge impact. I mean, solid states are record label from the state of Washington,
13:45
which is about as far away as you can get from where I live in states. I live in Pennsylvania,
13:50
a very small town, like Strickown. And I remember kicking stones around on my farm,
13:55
literally kicking stones around just in a train of thought with my friend Jordan
14:00
Puskin, who was the bass player for all those things right in the beginning.
14:03
And I remember saying to Jordan, I said, "Dude, can you imagine if we got signed to solid state,
14:11
we just started the band?" Like, that would be it. If we get signed to solid state, we've made it.
14:18
We were looking up in a huge way at bands like you said, undergrowth. But for me, it was
14:25
a band called extoll. Stoll is what got me into the style of drumming that I played today.
14:31
And at that time, solid state had a way of creating this look. It's almost like what Apple
14:41
became, and that everything solid state did was perfection. The bands on their label
14:48
all sounded incredible. They were like the untouchables. That label was perfection.
14:55
And in your head, you had this idea that anything solid state put out was going to be the best.
15:01
It didn't matter what genre it was. It really didn't matter if you've ever heard
15:07
it before. You know you could go to your local record store right that time. And you could buy
15:12
something that's at solid state on the back and you'd be pretty happy about it once you put it in
15:16
your CD player and your car on the way home. You had that much faith in the label.
15:22
And so at that time, you know, that was a dream of ours that when it came into fruition,
15:28
it was my model. We got to join the ranks of our favorite bands at the time.
15:34
Here's what happened. We started the band. We played a lot of local shows in the area.
15:40
We booked our own shows. We brought in national acts and we supported those bands
15:45
and our local VFW fire halls, skating ranks, garages, my barn, etc. So people came to see this
15:53
day forward or any number of like mid-sized, you know, national acts who were on tour booking a day
16:03
off. And we remained support. So everyone that came to the show here from Lancaster was going to
16:08
see us in order to see that. So we grew in the tri-state area and then we did a tour
16:14
following our signing to a small local record label called CI Records. That was our springboard
16:21
into solid state. Well, solid state saw some of our music online, some of our demos, and Jonathan
16:28
Dunn, who's not there anymore, but he was an NR rep. He reached out to us and he sent us an email.
16:34
He said, "August Burns Red, I like what you're doing. I'm interested. Would you be willing to drive
16:42
across the country?" 3,000 miles and play a show for us. We'd love to see you guys live and meet you.
16:50
So we had a band meeting and we're like, "Okay, first of all, there's no way this is real. This must
16:56
be a fake email. And second of all, are we willing to do this if it is?" So we replied and we determined
17:03
that this was a valuable investment of our time and money. We said, "Sure, we'll do it." And Jonathan
17:10
responded and said, "You're signed." And we said, "Wait, what? I thought we had to." And of course,
17:16
he was using a tactic of seeing how dedicated we are to this task. And so we signed a solid state
17:24
and that was 2005. We got a sizable budget to record the real secret with Adam D. And that was
17:30
the point in which we really never looked at.
17:56
For the most part, quit our jobs. I mean, I was working landscaping. JB was working at a grocery
18:01
store. I don't think Jordan was working. But I mean, we were juniors, seniors in high school
18:11
at the time. And we were just about to start down a road that we could have never imagined.
18:18
We were always looking at it from the outside. That's incredible to even hear your perspective
18:22
on solid state because in it didn't even connect for me until you said it the way you said it.
18:26
But I remember when Demon Hunter released their first album. And this is a band that had never
18:32
played a live show. So I remember everybody saying, "Oh, this band's going to stink. They're a made-up
18:39
band." And then solid state put their basically stamped their approval onto Demon Hunter. And
18:45
that first album came out and just melted everybody. And it's like because solid state didn't really
18:50
make mistakes. In that era, there were just no mistakes at all. But even going back to what
18:54
you were talking about, again, August Burns Red being founded back in 2003 in Lancaster, PA,
18:59
middle of Amish country, not metal country. But I mean, y'all's all of your first albums,
19:05
your seminal albums, so Thrill Seeker, the one you mentioned, but also messengers, constellations,
19:10
leveler, rescue in your store, those albums that have stuck with so many people, those were
19:15
essentially written in a barn. And so how in the world, and you might explain the reference,
19:21
I just made the egg room and the upstairs at the barn, but how in the world does it sound like that?
19:26
You know, basically a metal core defining sound come out of a barn in the middle of Amish country.
19:32
Timing. It comes down to timing. We were just at the forefront of this era where we were able to
19:40
listen to what was happening across the country. Just enough to take what we were here and saying,
19:48
yeah, I think we can do that. We do not know how to play our instruments. We have day jobs,
19:53
we don't have a lot of time, but any excess time that we have, hey, come over, let's play.
19:57
And we spend a lot of time together in the egg room and the three car garage at the farm and then
20:05
finally upstairs where there used to be chickens. And I think pigs. Nice. And it was just massive
20:12
investment of time, but it was done with the motivation of this is what we want to do with
20:18
our lives. All of our friends are off doing other things. And I remember saying no, you know,
20:24
it was a girl I liked in high school. And she would ask me out every once in a while,
20:29
hey, you want to go out? And I would just be like, nope, sorry. As soon as I'm done with work,
20:32
I'm going home, taking my shirt off and sweating for three and a half hours playing drums. I was
20:38
listening to this style of music, you know, during the day, if I could, and then as soon as I got home,
20:44
I'd eat dinner and I'd run out and I would just play as much as I could. And so even though we were
20:51
secluded from what seems like the rest of the country in some way, there was this scene here in
20:56
Lancaster. It was actually pretty special. There were a couple bands here who were doing what we
21:02
wanted to do. There were a couple of drummers here that were playing the way I wanted to play.
21:08
And there were a couple business-minded record label, you know, oriented folks here who were
21:18
like willing to get behind us. And it was really the perfect storm, the perfect time for us to
21:26
start chapter one of our band. Yeah, that's a really interesting story how all that came about
21:32
because with a lot of these bands, it comes to timing. I even heard recently we already mentioned
21:36
under oath with they're only chasing safety. There was a big timing thing with that album
21:40
getting as big as it got and, you know, bringing in a new frontman and, you know, some of this
21:44
stuff just doesn't work out. Other bands just aren't as lucky. But I feel like the thing about
21:49
Augspern's Red that is kind of definitional even from the beginning of me being a fan of you guys is
21:54
you guys are all really, really nice guys. Like, if you can't tell from this interview so far,
21:59
you're just really, really nice guys that play super angry music. And probably the best
22:04
Augspern's Red shirt ever made is where it says angry music, angry music for happy people.
22:09
But the thing is, is it just doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense when you see
22:13
you guys in person, you see JB walking around the sandals, you know, the basis looks like you could
22:17
do my taxes for me. But it's like, what is the most common, what's the most common misconception
22:24
that people have about you guys based on the music that you play or the way that you present
22:29
yourself? Our base is probably good to your taxes for you, by the way. Oh, good. I'll hit him up.
22:33
And JB is sponsored by that flip-flop company from Brazil. I can't remember the name. Of course he is.
22:39
Oh, man. We're just very fortunate, you know. Our backgrounds are so different from what we're doing.
22:52
I don't know. There's no reason to be upset about life. I mean, life is too,
23:04
it's incredible. Like we have the best, I'll try to put this simply with some brevity. Our worst
23:11
day on tour is better than most people's best. If you can remember that, you're always going to
23:18
treat people well because you're in a position where you get to do what you love for work. And
23:24
if you love what you do, then you never work a day in your life. And I mean, it's true. And there
23:28
are days where playing drums in a band is not what people think it is. When I'm home, I spend a lot
23:34
of time practicing. And what people don't think about is like, if you're listening to this and
23:40
you go work every day and maybe you're on the way to work or the way home, you have a boss or you
23:44
have a supervisor or a manager. And you have to live up to the standards that they set for you,
23:50
which is oftentimes aggravating, frustrating, stressful. But just imagine for a second that you
23:56
don't have a boss and you get to do whatever you want. Would you really do what is asked of you
24:04
by your manager, supervisor or boss? Would your standard for yourself and your work,
24:09
would your work ethic, subsequently, be what it could be and should be and is because someone's
24:16
telling you that it needs to be. Would it still be at that level if that person were not there saying
24:21
you got to clock in, you got to clock out and we need all this stuff done? Because if it's not,
24:27
then it becomes obvious very quickly that you're not going to have a sustainable
24:34
career being your own boss. You have to be very hard on yourself and always be saying to yourself,
24:42
I need to be the very best I can be, which is going to require everything. And when you have
24:47
that mentality about your work, you look at other people around you and they say, "Man,
24:51
I am so fortunate to be in the position I am and I respect that everybody else is doing their best
24:58
or should be or could be what they're doing." And they probably don't have as ideal of a situation
25:03
scenario, income, and so instead of looking down your nose at other people around you and in this
25:11
sort of angry, condescending, cocky way, because you're doing what you want to do and you're so
25:17
lucky and everything else. You look around at the world around you and you say, "I'm working hard,
25:23
you're working hard. Really, we're not all that different." And in fact, it's just humbling that
25:28
you are coming to our show as sort of a release or a fun date night with your wife. And I get to
25:36
be a part of that entertainment. That's so sick. I mean, that's a dream come true. And if anyone in
25:45
the band starts to act like they, you know, are better than anybody else, we're all pretty tight.
25:51
I mean, we're going to see it and we're going to call it out and it just doesn't happen. There's
25:55
no room for it. Well, and you mentioned like when people make August Burns Red a part of their life,
26:01
I think it was Joe DiMaggio or Ted Williams back in the day, you know, they talked about or maybe
26:05
Lou Gehrig. It doesn't matter. Basically, whenever you're playing a baseball game, you might have a
26:10
kid in the stands who this is the only baseball game he'll ever go to and he wants to watch you
26:15
play. And so if you don't take it seriously, if you're dropping your sticks or, you know,
26:19
everybody just seems out of sync, it doesn't really work. And there's nothing more disappointing
26:24
than when you're so excited to go see a band I'm thinking of one right now and I'm not going to
26:27
call them out. But it's just obvious that they didn't even really rehearse. They didn't really
26:32
even try. And you paid your money and you're just like, man, there was such a such a huge letdown.
26:36
But I guess that's a good time as any to bring up how sharp and precise you guys are as a band,
26:43
even in comparison to other metal bands. I remember the first show that I ever went to,
26:47
first August Burns red show I ever went to, I'm, you know, standing to the right. So I'm basically
26:51
right in front of JB where he normally stands. And it was early in the show. And I can't even
26:55
remember what song it was, but it was the solo. And I remember thinking to myself, all right,
26:58
I'm going to watch him because he's going to mess up somewhere because it's live and everybody's
27:02
everybody's having a good time. And this was song two or three. And he nailed the solo. Like
27:08
completely nailed it. And I just kind of look at my buddy and we both had the same thought at the
27:12
same time, like, okay, this band is for real. Like they're not messing around. But where does that
27:18
precision come from? Because a lot of bands I'm even thinking about, you know, early the chariot
27:22
days, it's like grimy is kind of the style. And if you're too precise or too dialed in,
27:28
it's it's like not metal or something like that. So where does that precision and style come from?
27:35
Hmm, that is a great question. Well, number one, I would say it's like, okay, we've been talking a
27:43
lot about the bands that we were listening to, the bands that we aspire to be like were that way.
27:48
They modeled this sound that was so precise. Bands like Meshuggah. Oh, yeah. We're very instrumental
27:57
in in my playing as far as like, that's possible. You can actually do that behind the drums.
28:04
My personality is I like to do things well, no matter what it is. I was working, I'm working
28:13
with a friend of mine named Buck and he has a landscaping company and we'll go out in the mulch
28:16
and you know, trim shrubs and we'll mow. And he told me one day, he's like, dude, he's like,
28:22
you're sort of costing my business money. And it's something, it's a good thing. And it's also a
28:30
bad thing. I said, what do you mean? I said, I'm trying to do my best. He said, exactly. He said,
28:34
everything that you do, you're putting everything into it. And sometimes it's okay to just like
28:40
do an okay job instead of like an incredible job. I'm like, I don't really know how to do that.
28:45
I've never really thought about it, but I'm not sure I can just do something
28:49
half-assed. I don't know that I can do that. And so we kind of laughed about it, but I realized
28:57
that that's the way that I approach life and actually so does everyone else in the band.
29:03
Everyone in my band is so good at what they do and they're so diligent and hardworking
29:08
and careful about every nuance. It's because of that attention to detail, I think that we are
29:14
still a band because people can expect a sound on a record and then they go to a show and hopefully
29:23
we can deliver it. If we don't, and if we can, and if we discontinue that style practice and just
29:32
putting in the time before we go on tour, then I think not only are we letting other people down,
29:36
we're certainly letting ourselves down and we're not going to be happy doing this anymore.
29:41
So the bottom line, it's a number one, the style that was, you know, that was represented by the
29:47
bands we listened to, but number two and probably more important is just the challenge in it. I
29:51
think we're all driven by the challenge to constantly raise the bar for ourselves and see if we can
29:59
meet it. Every record, every rehearsal, every tour, we have to keep raising that bar. If that bar
30:06
stays the same or drops a little bit, we're all like, I'm not sure about this. And if we're not
30:12
sure about it, it's not going to work. Yeah. And I think you already mentioned just the precision
30:18
in the practice it takes. I remember it was either you or JB during an interview, you were talking
30:22
about it was the 10 year anniversary tour for either messengers or constellations and how y'all had
30:27
to go back and relearn these songs that you basically wrote and moved on from because you hadn't
30:31
played them live. And just the level of precision and musicianship from several years prior was
30:38
to such a high degree. But you did mention my sugar and you do have a YouTube page. So would it be
30:44
too much to ask for you to do a cover of bleed by my sugar and put it on your YouTube? You don't
30:49
even have to answer now, I'm not going to put you on the spot. But if you could do that for the world,
30:53
I think that that would be appropriate because I still don't even know how that sound is made
30:56
by a drum kit from that sound. But I'm not sure either. Okay. So so one thing and you can maybe
31:02
just go into this very quickly, the biggest thing that I get whenever I try to show people your music
31:09
or any music from from metal, metal core, hardcore is they just can't get past the vocals. They can't
31:14
get past the screaming vocals. They're like, man, you know, the instrumentation sounds really cool.
31:18
I just can't get past that. And I'm sure Jake doesn't like hearing that. But you know, it's a common
31:22
thing with with metal vocals. Do you even understand what they're saying? They sound like a demon,
31:26
you know, it's it's that level of stuff. So what would you say to somebody that may have a hard time
31:31
getting past the screaming vocals in most metal bands? I agree with you. I really do agree with
31:39
you. It's it's it's hard to listen to. It's another instrument. And you don't have to like
31:46
the vocals to like the music and to like the lyrics. What tends to happen is like, do you know how
31:52
okay if if you if you see a girl, if you're a guy and you see a girl and you're like, wow,
32:02
that girl is very attractive. And then she starts to talk and you start to get the
32:08
knowing, you realize her personality is absolute trash. All of a sudden, her looks are completely
32:14
deflated. And you're like, okay, I'm not really attracted to her anymore because of her personality.
32:20
In on the contrary, if her personality rules, then all of a sudden, she's like the hottest girl you've
32:26
ever seen. Right. Okay. It's exactly the same way with this style of music. If you fall in love with
32:32
the lyrics and the instrumentation, instrumentally, you're actually going to fall in love with the
32:39
vocals because it's part of the equation. It's it's not at the forefront of what we do and who we
32:46
are and our sound, but it's it's sort of collateral. It's like icing on the cake. And if you find
32:54
that you get to know the personality, then all of a sudden the looks go through the roof. You can't
32:59
even measure it. The same is true with Jake's vocals. His vocals are sick. I mean, he is incredible
33:04
what he does. But if you're only listening to that, you're going to miss everything else and
33:08
actually everything else is just as important. In fact, we put an incredible amount of time into
33:13
everything else and the vocals actually come last. Jake is an incredible performer. If you come to
33:19
see us play, you're going to be entertained just watching him screaming. Okay. Yes, he's doing that
33:25
and he does it very, very well. But as far as his dancing and his moves and his mic swings and his
33:30
interaction with the crowd, it's it's a full blown show and the guy's an actor. And so you're going
33:36
to have to bake everything into the cake, but start with the cake and then make your way to the icing
33:41
because it's going to be impressive in the end. However, I agree with you. If you listen to this
33:47
and you listen to the intro music and this podcast, or you're going to listen to it afterwards,
33:52
it's going to throw you off if you never heard before. Just spend time with everything else
33:58
and the vocals will fit into place in the end. Well, yeah, it's it's an acquired taste for some
34:04
people, like most people that drink coffee or whiskey or whatever for the first time,
34:07
they don't just love it. But for some people, they do. But it's kind of getting that acquired taste
34:11
sort of a thing. So moving on a little bit with some more ABR specific questions. And before I
34:17
ask this, you can't say guardians, which is the new album. But from your opinion of the albums that
34:21
are out there that we've heard, what is the most complete August Burns red album from top to bottom
34:28
in your opinion? Yeah, I'm making you pick a favorite kid. All right. So that's basically how
34:34
that goes. You're making me pick a favorite kid. That's okay. It's hard to it's hard to do this for
34:44
one reason, nostalgia. So when we wrote and recorded constellations, I felt like we were at a time when
34:50
we were really coming into our found our sound recorded in Florida with Jason Sukhov. Finally,
34:58
a record that like really completes who we are locally instrumentally lyrically. I'd have to say
35:05
constellations.
35:20
What's funny, you mentioned nostalgia.
35:49
When people ask me what my favorite August Burns red album is, it's messengers. And because I
35:54
thought Thrill Seeker was amazing. And then messengers, I was like, what is this? This is
35:58
something completely different. It's still the same band. Basically, they inserted a new vocalist,
36:04
but that was kind of a seamless transition. But even when y'all released kind of the remixed
36:10
version of messengers, nostalgia didn't let me like that very much. Because I was like, ah,
36:15
that part sounds way too clean. That sounds too different. Because I was like, that's not my
36:19
messengers. Because messengers is the album I want to roll up and stick in my pocket and carry
36:23
around with me. But it's at that same time that you guys are developing as a band. But it doesn't
36:28
feel like there are certain bands that they release a new album, but they're just kind of
36:31
mailing it in like the last three or four motorhead records or the last several. They're just kind of
36:36
mailing it in. They're living off the old albums. You know, it's just kind of the way that it is.
36:40
Now, so you mentioned Constellations. So do you have the favorite song that you like to play live?
36:45
Is it a song off constellations? But for you, what's the most fun song that you guys have that you play
36:51
live? 37 is definitely the most fun song on that record.
36:55
Your life is a message for you.
37:10
Your faith is a message for you.
37:14
There are certain songs, if you're listening to this in your drum, or you understand what I mean,
37:26
or maybe it applies to guitarists and anything else too. But when I finish a song and it's recorded,
37:31
I finish writing, it's recorded, and I listen back. It's like, that song is complete on drums.
37:36
It flows well. The transitions are really well thought out. It doesn't suck.
37:41
And so 37 is one of those songs. Another song's "Provision."
37:47
"Provision" is a song that is, I wrote the lyrics to it as well as 37. So it's,
37:54
like I said, it's hard not to bake everything into the cake there as well, but the drums on
37:58
"Provision" are, they just sort of wrote themselves. And I can't help but integrate that into my decision
38:06
in which is the most fun song to play. It's like, well, this song's really fun because
38:11
it is, it feels complete on drums. There are some songs on "Guardians," which I'm not allowed to
38:19
talk about, I guess. But you can't say that's your favorite album because we haven't heard it.
38:26
So it's like, that gummit, you don't even know this person.
38:29
Yeah, there are some songs on there that are, are fun. Yeah, we'll get there.
38:34
Well, yeah, we'll get there. Just give it time. We'll do another podcast recording a year and get
38:39
to talk about it. All right, fair enough. After we've got to see it played live and everything else,
38:43
well, you kind of maybe alluded to this a little bit. A lot of times when you can kind of look back
38:48
on albums, you can see things and go, oh man, that was perfect. But you might also see sometimes
38:52
where it's like, oh, I wish I could get a do over. I remember watching the Zayo documentary,
38:57
that was like a thousand hours long, but I remember them talking. That thing was so long,
39:01
it's called "The Lesser Lights of Heaven." And there was no music in the background,
39:04
it was just the guys talking. So it was good and it was crazy all at the same time. But I remember
39:08
their lead guitarist and their clean vocalist, Scott, he was talking about if they could do
39:14
anything over as a band. And Zayo has had more people in that band than anybody than any band I've
39:18
ever heard of, a lot of different acts. They would go back and rerecord Jesse's drums on the self-titled
39:24
album. Because for anyone that knows Zayo knows that album, the drums for that album was recorded
39:30
on an electronic drum set. And so it's got a very unique sound. But in hindsight, Scott and the
39:36
rest of the band, they just hate it. They just hate the sound of that. So for you, if you could get a
39:41
do over on a song or an album or even a part of a song, is there one that you would want to kind of
39:48
go back and switch out what you did? No. What was that? That's kind of surprising. Typically
39:56
guys are like, ah, you know, I kind of screwed up that part, but there's not a single thing you would
40:00
change. No, it was really not. There's really not. I really, I've talked about this with friends
40:08
and the first singer for Congressman's Red, John Hershey and I talked about this because he always,
40:14
he has like a love-hate relationship with recording because of this. He'll go and record something and
40:19
then not long after be like, ah, I hate that it sounds like that or I did that. I think it's more
40:25
so my personality, but whatever I did at the time, I did it for a reason. And I spent, I know that I
40:31
spent time getting it to where I got it to and I recorded it and I was happy with it then and
40:38
I might look back and be like, I would do it differently now. But I'm not the kind of person
40:44
that looks back and says, man, I wish I could change it. And that's an every area in my life,
40:51
I think. I don't know. It kind of speaks to like regret, you know? Are there things in your life
40:58
that you regret? There are things in my life that I regret, but mostly because negatively,
41:03
the things that I did might have negatively affected other people. I don't regret things that I did
41:10
that might be perceived as negative, that only really affected me because I made the decision at
41:16
the time and at the time, I felt like it was a good decision. And yeah, we'd go back and do it
41:21
differently now, but I did it for a reason. And subsequently, I know that I invested time into
41:29
that decision, into writing that drum part. And so I can rest in the fact that, okay, that's good
41:36
enough for me, even though that drum part sounds like crap. Well, it's cool because you produce it,
41:45
you live with the results, you move on, and it's good to kind of have that mindset because you are,
41:49
it's not like you're living with this mindset like, Oh, that's the past. And then your future is still
41:53
kind of bleak and random. You do everything so precisely. So that makes perfect sense. So the
41:58
thing with with your band is not only do you guys spread, you know, the gift of metal all across
42:03
the world, but you also spread Christmas cheer. So if anybody knows anything about August Burns
42:08
Red, it's that y'all have some of the most brutal Christmas music that's ever been created.
42:33
[music]
42:55
Whose idea was it to even record a Christmas song? Because I think the first Christmas song
43:00
y'all recorded was Carol LaBelle's, and that's kind of made its way around the world.
43:03
I think even the drum line at Disneyland was playing y'all's version of Carol LaBelle's,
43:07
but you know, what was the impetus behind recording Christmas music and continuing to release Christmas
43:13
music essentially every year? Yeah, it's a good question. The Christmas stuff has been really fun
43:18
for us, and it has entered in a new crowd, a new audience in that, okay, there's not screaming,
43:26
and oh, I love Christmas music, and this sort of sounds like transferring an orchestra. So I'll
43:30
listen to it. The origins of it go all the way back to CI Records, which is our first record label
43:37
here in Lancaster. They had us play a Christmas show every year, and we would play August Burns
43:44
Red songs. One year JV said, why don't we cover a Christmas song for our Christmas show? We wrote
43:53
our rendition of it, played it, had a lot of fun, and I think the next year we were going into the
43:58
studio with two mattes in Tennessee to record messengers. Because we were in the studio already,
44:04
because we had a good budget from solid state, we prepared Carol LaBelle's to be recorded.
44:10
As like a b-side, you know, it wasn't something for a record, it was just like, we're going to get
44:16
this recorded so that we have it. We recorded it, continued to play it at our Christmas shows,
44:23
and then realized we should probably do another Christmas song, put a couple more together,
44:28
and eventually did the record. So really, it was created from this place of like, okay, we have
44:36
this Christmas show every year, we should probably play a Christmas song. When we saw how people
44:41
reacted to the Christmas songs, we're like, okay, this is something that we should continue to do,
44:46
and we've done ever since, you know, we try to do a new Christmas song every year.
44:51
It's been fun every year, you kind of wonder, okay, which one are they going to do? I think the most
44:55
surprising one y'all done recently was the home alone, like soundtrack or theme music. I was like,
45:00
because that is such a seminal work for Christmas, but you don't normally think of that soundtrack
45:05
as being the definition of Christmas song or something like that. So that was really cool to see.
45:11
Another thing that's definitional about you guys, in addition to the fact that you create all this
45:15
great music, the Christmas music and everything else, is you guys are road warriors. In the
45:19
biggest sense of the word, you guys are always on tour. You've always got an upcoming
45:23
tour inside the States. And also internationally, I wish I would come to Oklahoma a little bit more,
45:29
but you know, we'll work on that a little bit like that. But for you guys, or maybe for you
45:34
as an individual, you mentioned the worst day on the road is basically like someone else's best day.
45:38
But what are the best parts about being on the road so much? And kind of what are the worst parts
45:42
of that? Well, obviously the worst parts are being away from home. We're all home bodies, I would say
45:48
at this point, we're all in our lower 30s, Brent and JV have families. Mary, they each have kids,
45:58
one kid, one boy each actually. And so their wives are really the real, you know, the real
46:05
warriors here. We get to go out and have fun. Obviously my farms sort of a tough thing to leave
46:11
behind and my family. But once we leave, it's pretty easy to shift into that gear and
46:18
and go to work. The best thing about tour is, oh, hands down are the interactions with people.
46:27
I play drums in the band. I sit behind the kit. I don't really get to see the crowd too much.
46:32
But every night after the show, Jake and I hop down in between the barricade and the stage and
46:38
we just talk to kids, take pictures, sign autographs, act dumb, you know, whatever a kid wants to do,
46:46
you know, I want to pray with you. I'm going through this or hey, can we get a selfie or hey,
46:50
can you record a video from my friend? He's in the military. He's been deployed. I really miss him.
46:53
Hey, can you sign my cast? Like there's just endless stories from the barricade.
46:59
They should write a book about it. In fact, a lot of people probably should because
47:03
people are really amazing. I was listening to the radio the other day and I don't know if
47:08
you're familiar with Chris Kyle. Oh sure, yeah. Americans, his wife just wrote a book that I want
47:13
to read called American Spirit. And I was like, what this is about? And she's like, well,
47:17
this book is about all the amazing people in our country. And so too often we hear about the
47:23
pessimism and the negativity and just how trash people are. And it's true. There's a lot of
47:29
terrible people out there. But not a whole lot compared to the amazing, just the amazing kids and
47:38
adults and challenges that have been overcome and stories that have been told. It's awesome.
47:46
I love that stuff. And when we're done playing, if I have a really bad show and I play poorly,
47:52
I hop down there. It's just always amazing, dude, how none of that stuff matters.
47:58
Because this kid's coming from work where he's working fast food and
48:04
this is like the night he's been looking forward to for so long. He gets to just come out, bang his
48:08
head, buy a t-shirt, take a picture, and he's just lit up about it. I'm like, how in the world do I
48:15
get to be a part of this kid's entertainment at the center of what he wants to do on a Thursday
48:24
night in Tulsa. And so when I go back on the bus at the other night, I put my show clothes away,
48:31
I hop on the bus, sit down, and have a good time with the band and then go to bed. It's just like,
48:38
wow, that was an amazing day. And really, when I look back, it's because of those kids. The
48:44
shows can be good. The shows can be bad. The grand balance in all of it is the fact that this kid
48:51
came to the show and he's driving to him talking about how much fun he had. And that's a huge thing
48:59
for me. The fact that we get to positively affect, hopefully, as many people as possible with our
49:05
lyrics and our music. Well, those stories never get old, Matt. It's just two days ago, I had a guy
49:12
a stranger come up to me and say, you know, he appreciated me for the, he said, thank you for the
49:16
podcast and all those different things. And he's like, your podcast got me through my deployment.
49:21
And I just, I kind of looked at the guy almost like, what? Like, I sometimes recorded my underwear.
49:28
What are you talking about? Like, I did, you know, I did a thing that you appreciated that much of
49:34
those stories have to be, have to be great. So I would love if that was turned into a book or a
49:38
little mini documentary, but to kind of put a bow on, on the August Burns red stuff, and then we'll
49:43
move on to some more general music stuff and then talk about your faith and then the new album.
49:47
August Burns Red was formed back in 2003. I mean, we're coming up on 20 years as a band. I mean,
49:54
we're, we're closer to that than we are farther, farther away. And so kind of a two part question.
49:59
Could you have ever imagined that you'd be playing this style of music in a band like this for this
50:04
long and outside of the grinder farm, you know, what does life look like for you after ABR? Is
50:11
there any, is there even any inkling of what that looks like at this point?
50:16
Good question. Number one, honestly, yes. And no, however you want to phrase it, I, I, I did not,
50:26
I did not, I'll put it this way. I'm surprised that we're still a band,
50:33
but I never in the same notion anticipated it ending. I started the band, we started the band,
50:42
we've been touring for so long as you said, but there's never this thought in the back of my mind
50:49
that's like, oh boy, it's, it's going to end soon or oh boy, you know, what am I going to do when
50:54
it's over? I have this view of the band, which is that it's just going to keep going and going and
51:01
going. And obviously there's some, and I haven't needed that because it's really out of our control
51:07
in a lot of ways. The one thing that is in our control and the thing that would break this band
51:11
up and perhaps the only thing that would really end it is implosion. If we as a band, as band
51:20
members decide that we don't get along with each other anymore, we don't want to do this anymore.
51:24
And what I do know is that those two things will never happen. We've never been closer and all of
51:32
us collectively don't want to do anything else in comparison to what we're doing. This is exactly
51:39
what we want to be doing. And so I am surprised. I mean, it's crazy, like you said, we're close to
51:44
20 years, but in the same way, it's like, I just, I don't really think about the fact that it's
51:51
going to end, could end, will end. It's going to have to because I have to play double bass to be
51:57
in this band and my legs aren't going to be able to keep up forever. So it's, you know, it's why I
52:01
keep practicing. And you know what, everybody's replaceable. So if, if I get to the point where I'm
52:07
like, dude, I can't play this song music anymore, then I give everyone in the band full permission
52:12
and be like, all right, we need some young gun. Let's, let's go. Let's do this. You know, we got
52:15
bills to pay. And then in reply to your, your second question, what, what would I do afterwards?
52:23
I think I'd really like to teach. I enjoy teaching drum lessons. I enjoy
52:32
I enjoy helping other people. If, if, if what I'm doing is just for
52:38
my own gain or I'm just sort of like going to work and not really making an impact on somebody
52:45
else's life, it doesn't have to be huge. It doesn't have to be a lot of people, even just one is,
52:51
is enough. I feel like I'll be satisfied. But also I, I have to be playing drums.
53:00
If I go work really hard for my buddy doing landscaping or on the farm or work a 10 hour
53:04
day, come home. And I don't play drums. I should feel like I had a productive day. I should feel like
53:09
I can sit down and enjoy myself and relax. And I just can't. If, on the other hand, I play drums
53:16
for three hours, I can do nothing the rest of the day and I'm going to feel great. It's like,
53:22
drums have to be a part of my day because when I'm sitting down playing, I'm doing exactly what
53:26
I'm supposed to be doing. And actually, funny, if you listen to this, maybe you can relate to it,
53:31
maybe you can't, to my point, I thought everybody had something like that. I thought that everybody
53:37
had something that when they do it, they know they're doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing.
53:42
And it wasn't until like, I don't know, maybe a decade ago, it's been a little while, but I
53:45
realize that that's certainly not the case. And when I realize it's not the case, it may be
53:50
appreciate what I do even more because it's like, wow, not everybody has this thing that when they're
53:54
doing it, it's not to sound hippie-hoppy, but like out of body experience, the closest thing to that.
54:01
I'm not thinking about anything else. This is the only thing that matters and my time is being used
54:06
to the fullest extent of what it could be. And so whatever I'm doing after this band,
54:12
I will be playing drums maybe for by church, you know, or I'll be teaching or something. But that
54:19
will be a part of it. Cool. Well, man, I appreciate that answer. That's a great answer. And so we're
54:23
going to transition a little bit now into just maybe music overall. And you've already mentioned
54:27
a lot of bands that have had influence on you, Ex-Toll, Machuga. But today, which bands or artists
54:33
or even genres of music influence you and your drumming? For me, in metal, it's the stuff I used
54:40
to listen to. It really hasn't changed. I went back and listened to on Earth. Have you ever listened
54:45
to on Earth, the oncoming storm? Yeah, of course. That's, I mean, the first concert I went to was
54:51
under oath, dead poetic, unearth and Zayo down in Dallas. Yeah, you saw a dead poetic. Wow.
54:56
Yeah, that was my very, very first show I ever went to. Who was the standout band at that show?
55:00
Well, what's funny is the standout band was actually unearth because the guitarist lifted
55:07
up his guitar on the back of his guitar. It said eat a dick on it. And I thought it was a Christian
55:13
show. And like our chaperones that were there with us were mortified. They were ready. They were
55:19
ready to, they were ready to leave. And Zayo was the headliner. I was like, no, we came all this way.
55:25
This is my first concert. I'm not going to do what that guitar says to do. I want to listen to this
55:30
band. So, but unearth was the band that surprised me the most. And this was under oath pre the new
55:35
singer. This was Dallas as the, the singer of under oath. So this was the old, old, old lineup.
55:41
But yeah, I mean, that, that was an incredible first show. But what were you saying about unearth?
55:44
Yeah. So on earth, the oncoming storm, when I go back and listen to that record, which I just did
55:49
two weeks ago, I had like a two and a half hour drive. I was, I was driving with my buddy Jeremy.
55:54
And we were just kind of going down that ravage. I'm sure you've done that where you're just like,
55:58
oh, yeah, I want to go back and listen to that record by beloved, you know, that I used to love.
56:01
And so then that leads you into like, oh, I want to hear a stretch arm stronger. And so we just
56:07
kept going down. We ended up in unearth. I was like, dude, this song is so, so track three on the
56:12
oncoming storm, where it starts off with this hard chords and that huge breakdown. So, so when
56:19
I hear drumming parts like that on those records, it's really just, it's kind of one and the same.
56:25
I go back and listen to it. And that's what's still influencing me. I haven't really
56:29
changed all that much. I will say I was out in California a couple weeks ago for a project with
56:35
Zilgin. And I got to meet Mac Garska of animals as leaders. And I've been, I've been studying a lot of his curriculum. I really enjoy.
56:43
I don't listen to animals as leaders, but I like his drumming. And that's usually what happens.
56:49
I don't have to love the band. I just have to love the drummer.
56:52
Right. Well, that band is ridiculous. That's a three piece. Yeah. And when you listen to that
56:57
band, it doesn't make sense. That number of sounds are coming out. Right. That that's really cool.
57:03
Hey, let's just interesting hearing, because I kind of go back to my old music. And am I like,
57:07
am I like an old, funny, duddy? I'd rather go back and listen to, I'd go back and listen to the beloved album
57:13
or something like that, as opposed to trying to figure out what the scene kids are in two days.
57:17
I don't, I don't really care. I know. That's exactly how I am too. If I'm listening to new music,
57:23
it's Hillsong worship, Hillsong Live. And see, last night I was listening to Asity's Burn, which is
57:33
still going back. I was listening, I like listening to Adele. So really nothing inside the metal genre.
57:40
I really like listening to worship music, not just because of the fact that it's, you know,
57:46
lyrically in line with what I believe, but just, I like the music. I legitimately really liked the
57:52
production value. I like the drum parts. I like the bills. I think it's some of the most beautiful
57:58
music. I've been that way for a couple of years now. I don't really listen to music a whole lot.
58:04
Actually, I listen to a lot of what we're doing here, which is podcasts. I listen to Ben Shapiro,
58:08
listen to Joe Rogan. I like listening to commentary between a really good
58:17
guest and a really good host and just learning about people and what's going on in the world.
58:22
That's what interests me more. Now, if you're listening to this, maybe you can relate to this
58:28
too, but it's like, as a drummer, when I listen to music, I analyze it. So I need a break from that.
58:34
If I'm driving, I'll listen to the radio and I'll turn it up. And it doesn't matter if it's
58:38
country or pop. I enjoy it because I'm not going to break it down too much.
58:44
Gotcha. Well, I mean, you've mentioned a lot of different genres. Are there any genres,
58:49
like as a whole, that you just, you can't stand it? Like this particular genre,
58:54
there's no redeeming qualities. Get it out of my speakers. I don't want it. Are there any of
58:57
those genres for you? Yeah, like the new country kind of bothers me because it's just so dumb.
59:05
It's kind of the [inaudible], but the [inaudible] country. The like, yeah, that's a good way to put it.
59:10
It's exactly what it is. It's just dumb, dude. It's like musically, I could care less if it's
59:15
simple. I like simple music. It's the lyrics that just blow my mind. It's like, I don't like that
59:22
people think like that. And here's what I don't like. I don't like when someone has the authority
59:28
over someone else and uses that authority and power and influence to construct this train of
59:34
thought that's just trash. And so many times it's just trash. People are buying into it. You're in
59:40
the studio singing these words that don't mean a lot to you and they're catchy and it's going to
59:43
sell a bunch of records. And to you, you go home and you don't live your life that way. But what
59:47
you don't realize is a lot of people listening will because they think it's gospel. And they're
59:53
going to be like, okay, this guy who's one of my favorite singers or artists is singing this song.
59:58
I love that song. He thinks that I'm going to think it too. And it's like, no, you can't true
1:00:03
a woman like that. Like, no, that's not what life's about. You can't live your life like that.
1:00:08
Well, that's why it's hard for me even like with with a lot of with a lot of hip hop. Like I get
1:00:12
lost in the beat because I'll do like striking training or more tired or something like that.
1:00:16
And there's just something about that flow of the music that kind of gets you going. But then when
1:00:20
you look at it lyrically, most of it is absolutely reprehensible. But the thing about you even
1:00:26
mentioned is well, you mentioned this too, like simplicity is so important. Like, okay, if you
1:00:31
look at someone like Johnny Cash, and you look at his American recording, so those were like the
1:00:35
last five albums that were released before he died. That was basically his voice in a guitar.
1:00:40
And you know, it was just him telling the story in a way that he did. And so you don't have to make
1:00:46
these big production type things to make great music. So one thing about about you guys is how
1:00:52
I discovered August Burns read Funny Enough is on purevolume.com. So some of you guys might actually
1:00:57
remember pure volume. That was, you know, this site that would basically rank order these bands.
1:01:01
You could listen to the band right there from the website. But for you guys, you've been in this
1:01:06
band and in this industry long enough that you've seen the movement from CDs to mainly digital
1:01:13
to now it's like, okay, digital. And if you're really cool, you'll buy the vinyl. And so it's
1:01:18
like you've seen the whole gamut. What has that been like being in the industry for this long
1:01:22
and kind of seeing that transition? I miss CDs. I'm actually buying a new truck today,
1:01:28
not a new truck, a used truck, and it has a CD player. And it was like the first thing that
1:01:32
made me excited about a new vehicle was like, oh, yes, I finally get to have an old CD player
1:01:39
in a new truck because I like just the physical copy. I love Spotify. I just I signed up for Premium
1:01:49
last year and I love it. It's incredible. I get to listen to whatever I want whenever I want.
1:01:54
It's important to just go with the flow on the stuff as a band. You know, you can't you can't
1:01:59
hate on what's on where the market's going and where things are trending. You have to learn how to
1:02:05
grow with it instead of fight against it. And it's hard because we don't make money in the way
1:02:13
that we used to. We have to find new ways to do it. CDs don't really sell. You're not going to make
1:02:18
a whole bunch of money or roll tea. So you have to tour a lot. But the upside is that a lot more
1:02:23
people are going to listen to your band potentially than, you know, the scope of who was listening to
1:02:31
you before in the past because it's just so much more accessible. Like if you're listening to this
1:02:36
podcast, you can just so easily just pop on your phone within seconds. Listen to any song I've
1:02:41
ever played drums on in August, it's red. That's insane. And part of me loves it, you know, it's
1:02:48
cool. And then a part of me is just like, wow, things are things have really evolved and actually
1:02:54
very, very quickly. So it's been it's been fun. I don't have a negative view of it. We still
1:03:02
actually sell a lot of vinyls, like you said, you know, we have vinyls for every record and we have
1:03:06
a bunch of different versions, limited color runs styles. But predominantly we're recording
1:03:14
music to be streamed in the end. One the cool thing about what you said is yes, you can access bands.
1:03:20
I mean, there are albums that I have that I've listened to over and over and over for bands that
1:03:24
I never would have spent 999 on their album because it would have been too much of a risk. I mean,
1:03:29
the single didn't do the rest of the album justice. And so I feel like it has helped a little bit,
1:03:34
but I do kind of feel bad for the bands on the other side. But to kind of wrap up this little
1:03:38
section on just generalize music, who is your favorite drummer of all time and why?
1:03:44
Yep. And in this one, I'm not going to let you name two or three. I'm going to hold your feet
1:03:50
to the fire. You get you get one drummer who I already called you my favorite dang it. So
1:03:56
you got to get somebody else. Yeah, this is pretty easy. Blake Richardson between the bird and
1:04:00
me. Yeah, that's a hard it's hard to go against him. So it's a white white is he your favorite.
1:04:05
His creativity. I don't really care how fast you are. I don't care what John or your plan. If
1:04:11
you're creative, then you have something special and that dude's special. There's a lot of special
1:04:17
drummers out there, but that guy's special. And oh, on top of that, he's really just an amazing dude,
1:04:25
humble and considerate like humble in the sense that he thinks about other people and looks at
1:04:33
other people and champions other people and consider it in like the sense that when you get
1:04:38
together and hang out with him, he does not talk about himself. He's going to look out for other
1:04:43
people. He's going to have fun. You know, there's a lot more to life and drums. I love that about
1:04:48
him. It's very refreshing because when he gets behind the kit, you're just like, what? That guy
1:04:55
is doing that? Like I would have never guessed. I love that. When even the colors album is still
1:05:01
one of the one of the greatest albums that I've ever heard from any band. And they've gotten
1:05:06
more experimental as time has gone on. But that's a great album to come back to. So one of the one
1:05:10
of the big reasons why I wanted to bring you on this podcast, because again, this is a men's ministry
1:05:14
podcast. We talk a lot about different things that are of interest to men. But I remember for growing
1:05:20
up, you know, we talked a lot about growing up in the scene. And so now looking back as a 33 year old
1:05:25
adult, some of those early solid state and tooth and nail bands, we all thought that they were Christian
1:05:31
bands. Right. And so in hindsight, you go back to bands like embodiment or undergrowth or
1:05:37
Zeo and even even like a non solid state band like Azalea dying and Tim's had his own problems.
1:05:42
But a lot of people say even August Burns read is a Christian band quote unquote I'm using air quotes
1:05:47
over here. And I've said that to people because when they're listening to the music, they're like,
1:05:52
Oh, this is say 10 gets like it's actually not. But you guys as a band as a whole, you don't ascribe
1:05:57
to that label. You said that you you've said before that your personal goal initially for August
1:06:03
Burns read is that it would be a ministry to something that could spread the gospel. But you've had to
1:06:07
kind of let that go over the years. But you're still what I you know, you and Jake are the most
1:06:12
outspoken members of August Burns read when it comes to your faith. But there was a story that I heard
1:06:17
on on a podcast interview back in it would have been 2012. You guys were playing a show in Sydney,
1:06:22
Australia. And you know, one of the band members brought a, you know, Joseph Coney sign on stage.
1:06:27
It was kind of the invisible children era. And you guys got booed mercilessly. And this led to kind
1:06:32
of a huge discussion by the band kind of a defined the relationship discussion like, Hey, what are
1:06:37
we doing here? Like, what are we doing as a band? And it almost led led to the band breaking up.
1:06:42
But y'all had some great discussions. But what y'all ultimately decided is that that the point of the
1:06:47
band was not to preach the gospel or be evangelical. And so I want you to kind of take us back to
1:06:53
that time. Because I remember listening to that and being very, very disappointed in thinking, Oh,
1:06:57
great. August Burns read is just the latest in a line of these bands that took our money at the
1:07:03
Christian festivals. And you know, took my money at the Christian bookstore. But then they're not
1:07:07
actually gospel centered, which is an unfair position. But it is something that a lot of guys
1:07:11
have thought about. So kind of take us through what the decision was to do that with the band.
1:07:16
Yeah, it's great. That was a tumultuous time. As I'm saying here, listening to you very accurately
1:07:24
describe what happened. I mean, that's it. It's exactly what happened. The time that we should
1:07:29
happen, we had grown apart as band members. Jake and I were sort of probably looking down our
1:07:35
nose at the other guys saying, I can't believe we were that and now we're this. As you said,
1:07:43
the Coney worldwide campaign was in full effect. And I wanted to be a part of it. I made the sign
1:07:49
walked down to the Sydney Opera House took a picture, walked back, put the poster somewhere
1:07:55
backstage. Jake, without really talking about it, walked out, held it up. We got food. We ended
1:08:01
up backstage. We don't get food. We got food and everyone felt the dagger. It was time for the
1:08:10
elephant in the room to be addressed. And that's exactly what happened. And of course, just like
1:08:15
any other argument, there's always something deeper going on. So it's like, why did you hold
1:08:20
the Coney sign up? We're not all on board with this. Well, what's wrong with that? And then you
1:08:27
just sort of unravel everything that has been building. You spend nine months out of the year
1:08:32
with these guys. Spend more time with them than you do. Your family, your best friends.
1:08:38
And you're always in close quarters. And oftentimes that can make the situation that seems petty
1:08:46
compound into this mountain that you can't for the life you figure out how to even begin to climb.
1:08:56
That's what happened. Years and years of being together and just these little,
1:09:04
you know, selfish, dumb motives that I had
1:09:09
conflicted and rubbed up against and battled with somebody else's motivation for doing the
1:09:18
band. And on that night in Sydney, we talked about it. And what we figured out, as you said,
1:09:25
our goal is no longer to be an evangelical, preach the gospel, spread the good news, tell everyone
1:09:33
about Jesus band, it's to be a professional band that spreads a positive message. And once
1:09:41
I realized walking away from that meeting that we were a business and we were no longer a ministry
1:09:49
centered band at our core. I was devastated. I went back to the hotel, Jake, we're just like
1:09:56
standing outside of the balcony of this hotel in Sydney. And unfortunately, the thing about religion
1:10:03
is that it builds walls. We had built a wall and we were staring at that wall saying,
1:10:08
well, that wall just got even bigger. Are we going to fly home tomorrow and call a quits or are we going
1:10:17
to really work on ourselves here? And look at this situation as an opportunity, not a disappointment.
1:10:26
And so we had to unravel a lot of junk, you know, I had a lot of junk and Jake had a lot of junk
1:10:32
to work through. And we ended up like sticking with the tour and working through it. And it was
1:10:38
awkward and terrible and strange. And we got home and over the next couple years, that was 2012, I
1:10:45
would say over the next three years, maybe four years, we started to look at each other
1:10:54
with respect. We started to look at each other and say, you know what, we don't agree about
1:10:58
faith or worldviews or values from A to Z. But actually, I really respect the way you live
1:11:07
your life because it's consistent with what you're saying. And wait a second, you're actually more
1:11:13
consistent than people in my church are with how they live their lives. So actually, I come to
1:11:19
respect you more than I do them, even though we don't agree and actually in spite of the fact
1:11:24
that we don't agree. I like you a lot. What tends to happen like in the home I was raised in,
1:11:32
when we were watching NASCAR, which we did on Sundays, and Dale Jarrett won, I was sitting on
1:11:39
the edge of my seat with my mom waiting for him to give thanks to God. It was like, please, Dale,
1:11:45
say it. Please say this is for Jesus. Please say it. Please say it. It's in our human nature
1:11:50
to see in someone that we aspire to be or someone that we look up to, to see some
1:11:56
semblance of what we hope that we would do. If I was in that position, I would do that too. I would
1:12:03
stand up and I would do that. And the feeling that I had in 2012 was like, I wanted to be that
1:12:12
person that stood on a stage and was like, this is for God. This is for God. It's always been
1:12:18
for God. It's always going to be for God. But really, when you build it down, it wasn't. It wasn't.
1:12:23
There were conversations that were, but our primary goal is a ban was to be a business and to do what
1:12:28
we did very well. And maybe on a personal level, I had that ministry ambition more than everybody
1:12:33
else, but it was personal to me as a relationship with God should be. And of course, there are facets
1:12:44
of preaching the gospel, but it starts with that relationship that when the doors close and no
1:12:51
one's watching, no one's listening, who are you really? What kind of relationship do you really
1:12:56
have with God? Because if that's strong, then you can go out into the world and you don't even need
1:12:59
to mention God for people to look at your life and say, I'm not exactly sure what that guy stands
1:13:07
for. But whatever it is, it is real to him. It's personal to him. He knows that it's real. He knows
1:13:15
whoever he's in a relationship with. And he knows who he is as a result of it. So here's what I realized
1:13:23
in 2012 with that whole debacle. I realized I was laying in bed one night, not long after that
1:13:30
booing session for Coney. And God hasn't, I don't know that God's ever spoken to me, but I get this
1:13:40
sense of him putting something in my head and in my heart. And this is the sense that he gave me. He
1:13:44
said, I would much rather you call your band a business. And when we meet, or when I talk to you
1:13:56
again, I ask you, why didn't you call yourself a Christian band? You could have. You certainly help
1:14:03
people lead them towards me. And you didn't. Why did you just call yourself a business? And me just
1:14:09
explained, well, it collectively was what it was, just sort of explained the situation. I would
1:14:14
rather err on the side of safety than say, then hear from God, how dare you use my name for your
1:14:22
benefit. And yet you did, and you capitalized on it. And really at the heart of what you were doing
1:14:28
was this disingenuous motive to use me to look a certain way, smoke and mirrors facade. And in
1:14:37
the end, it's just trash. Never, ever, ever, ever does anyone want to put themselves in a situation
1:14:45
where God is saying, how dare you? That's the situation we were probably in. And so I would rather
1:14:53
stand before God one day knowing that, yeah, we could have called ourselves a Christian band,
1:14:58
but who cares? What is a Christian band? I mean, we're playing breakdowns and we're playing fast
1:15:03
rhythms that we're screaming. It's music. It's just it's music. It can be positive. It can be
1:15:11
negative. It can be pointing people to God. It can be pointing people away from God. But it is
1:15:15
really simply put music. What happens off stage, and those personal reactants that no one's ever
1:15:21
going to know about, those are the types of situations that could be considered a church-like setting.
1:15:27
And they happen every single night. And in fact, they happen more than they ever have before,
1:15:31
since that defining moment, that moment actually helped focus me in on what's really important
1:15:38
in a genuine way, a meaningful way, rather than detract from what I thought that I wanted for the
1:15:45
band. When I think you're hitting on something, first of all, thank you for for going into such
1:15:50
detail there. That was that was certainly more than than what I was expecting and very, very
1:15:54
appropriate that you went that far on that question. But for most people, it's do they
1:15:59
introduce themselves since we're already picking on accountants? Do they introduce themselves as
1:16:04
as an accountant or as a Christian accountant? Do I introduce myself as a podcaster or a Christian
1:16:09
podcaster? And some of that you kind of just get left in semantics. You kind of get stuck in the
1:16:14
semantic world. But at the end of the day, we were called to work as to the glory of God in
1:16:19
everything that we do, whether we're landscaping or whether that we're touring and playing a show
1:16:24
in front of 50,000 people in Germany. And so that's that's a different level for that for most people
1:16:29
that they maybe weren't expecting to go. But I think that that's really important that we covered
1:16:33
that. Now, on this part, this is where you and I are probably going to disagree a little bit,
1:16:37
but I'm open. I'm open to have my mind changed. Okay. Me personally, and I've said this a million
1:16:42
times on this podcast, I cannot stand modern worship music. I cannot stand it. I've got my pockets.
1:16:48
I've got my chain and chains. I've got my few fill with them songs. I got a few things that I can
1:16:53
deal with. But my trigger, my trigger words are Hillsong Hillsong alive and Hillsong night. And
1:17:00
but the thing is, is you kind of like melted part of my brain a few years ago, because you did a drum
1:17:05
cover of what a beautiful name by Hillsong. And guys, I'll make sure that you have a link to that
1:17:11
in the show notes so you can check it out. But for me, that genre of music is so troublesome,
1:17:17
because for me, most of the instrumentation is very, very basic. It's very, very boring.
1:17:23
But even worse, because I'm very sensitive to things about, you know, men, because I feel like
1:17:28
a lot of men feel like when they're at church, they're like, okay, I can either be a good Christian,
1:17:33
or I can be a man, because I can't be both. And even with a lot of the musical content, the
1:17:38
lyrical content I feel like is especially egregious, because I feel like it's almost
1:17:43
homo erotic. Like we're talking about Jesus, like he's our boyfriend. It's like, no, no, no,
1:17:47
that's the lion of Judah, right? Like that, that is, that is grace and truth personified. Like,
1:17:52
and we're talking about him, like he's just like this cutesy guy that we go and visit a few, a few
1:17:56
times a week. And so for a guy like me, and in Matt, you're talking, you're about to talk to a
1:18:02
bunch of guys that are just like me, that they go to church, they're sitting there during worship,
1:18:06
and they just don't get it. They don't get how people are putting their hands up. They don't get
1:18:09
how people are praising the creator of everything in this way. Help me and help my listeners kind of
1:18:16
understand modern worship music for what it is, or maybe what it could be. Are there things that
1:18:21
you wish you could change? Because you've already kind of put yourself in Hillsong camp, so you can't
1:18:25
back out now, but you know, help us. Help us understand. I'm with you. I'm with you. I am in your court,
1:18:33
one hundred percent of the way. I can't stand when people use God. I mean, we just got done talking
1:18:39
about this. It's like, how dare you affiliate yourself with God in your personal crappy,
1:18:48
just like watered down endeavors. It's got to be good, dude. Everything you do has got to be good
1:18:56
to start with as a Christian. And then if you're going to put God's name in it, it better be good.
1:19:01
But here's the thing. There is an Instagram account, which I'm not going to mention.
1:19:06
The only reason I'm bringing it up is because it really [inaudible] me off when
1:19:12
Christians laugh at other Christians, when Christians make fun of other Christians,
1:19:18
who are volunteering their time to enter into a place of worship with God. I mean,
1:19:30
worship is such an important and personal part of being a Christian. And I'm, I could be with you
1:19:38
more. It's like, we are worshiping the God of the world. This is not someone that you can look at
1:19:45
and say, "Boy, he's safe." You know, like C.S. Lewis talks about in Narnia. It's like,
1:19:50
when Digory asked, forget who he was talking to, but he's like, "Is he safe? He's talking about
1:19:55
us. Is he safe? And the response is safe. No, but he's good." And that's exactly how our approach
1:20:03
should be to God. This all in wonder, this, how can it be that the God of the world could love me?
1:20:09
And it really upsets me when I see people mock other Christians who have a genuine approach to
1:20:17
their, in their worship to God. Here's the thing. A lot of Christian music is terrible. You don't
1:20:24
have to like Hillsong musically speaking. You don't even have to like what they're saying. But what's
1:20:31
troubling to me is this idea of a church of a hundred people with very few volunteers and even
1:20:41
fewer, you know, musicians. And they need a worship in. So they're going to pull whoever they can. They're
1:20:46
going to put them on stage and they're going to lead worship. This Instagram account takes videos
1:20:50
from these performances and puts them online and then mocks them. And it's like, how dare you mock
1:20:56
someone who is giving all of themselves, pouring their heart into devotion to a God that they love
1:21:04
and it loves them. When God is not going to look at them bringing their utmost and saying it's not
1:21:12
enough. It's a, it's a church of a hundred people. There's only probably two drummers in the whole
1:21:18
place and the one drummers will be playing for six years. He's going to mess up and he's not going
1:21:21
to play all that well. Do you think God sees those mistakes and says, ah, I'm not really sure about
1:21:26
that. So obviously, and you know this as well as me, the, the, the heart behind worship, the real
1:21:34
purpose behind it is, is, is deeper than what you hear and what you see. And music that is subpar
1:21:41
and watered down, if it's done in the capacity that that's, that's the very best that they could do,
1:21:47
then it's more than enough. But if on the other hand, there's this idea that it's a business,
1:21:53
it's a big business, there's a lot of money. And you're capitalizing on the fact that your
1:21:58
relationship with God is advancing your career. And you're just sort of like you said earlier,
1:22:04
like your, you said, um, you're, you're just mailing it in, you know, so, so much of Christian
1:22:10
worship and Christian music is just, you just sort of mailed it in and you know, we're going to listen.
1:22:14
That's trash, complete trash, complete trash. I know a couple of the guys in Hillsong, they come
1:22:19
out to our shows. I expected them to talk about worship, the way that you would expect them to
1:22:27
talk about worship, like, ah, it kind of sucks. And you know, ha ha ha, Christians and ha ha ha,
1:22:32
Christian music, but you know, we're really, you know, banking in on this. They're not like that
1:22:37
at all. These dudes love God. And I've never, I've never met people who have like such a genuine
1:22:45
interest in creating, um, music to help people find God and talk to God and sing to God.
1:22:52
I would prefer listening to hymns. I was just talking about this yesterday because they were
1:22:58
wordsmiths and oftentimes hymns were written out of this place of like desperation. And we've lost
1:23:04
that a little bit. The unfortunate thing about worship music, which I agree with you on, is like,
1:23:09
you're everyone singing about one thing. How many times can you sing about one thing or one person?
1:23:15
And every other genre of music that anomaly doesn't exist. There's any number of things to
1:23:20
write about, but in Christianity, everyone's writing about the same person. And so there's
1:23:25
this deviation from what's actually important, which is worshiping God. It's not about you,
1:23:29
it's not about your feelings, it's not about how you look, it's not about how you feel, it's not about
1:23:32
what you're wearing, it's about God. That's all it's about. And singing praise to God, even when you're
1:23:37
low, even when you're high, especially when you're high. And unfortunately, because it's such a big
1:23:44
business, it's just rolling over and over and over and it's giving a terrible name to Christianity.
1:23:51
And that is the part that really [inaudible] me off. Where I will stand in and defend Christianity
1:23:55
is where there are people in 100 capacity churches are giving it everything they got,
1:24:00
even though it sounds pretty terrible. But at the end of the day, if God looks at a heart,
1:24:06
that he's certainly not looking at how they're executing a pretty simple worship song. In the
1:24:12
end, he's getting what he wants from us, which is this semblance of humility and this sort of
1:24:18
laying down of your life and saying, "I can't do this on my own, it's you. It's all about you."
1:24:23
And I think those big bands that you're talking about, they're going to have to stand accountable.
1:24:26
I'm glad I'm not in that position. Because the Bible talks about how someone
1:24:30
in a place of authority who is leading a way that's unjust or disingenuous is going to be
1:24:37
high or is going to be held to a higher standard. And that's 100% true.
1:24:41
Well, I appreciate your perspective on that because obviously it's a very informed perspective.
1:24:44
And you said a few things there that I'll definitely need to chew on. But yeah, I'm with you whenever
1:24:49
people are critical of bands in their area. And even me, at the church I go to, sometimes I'll
1:24:54
just kind of roll my eyes like, "Man, this is so bad, but it's a hard issue."
1:25:01
That's a Christianism. It's a hard issue. But it's like for me where it's just like what these
1:25:07
people, they literally are giving the extent of their musicianship to the song that they're doing.
1:25:12
And whether I like it or not, it's fine. Because here's the thing, is if y'all were the worship band
1:25:16
at my church, there would be 12 people in that church. And we'd all have face tattoos and nobody
1:25:22
would understand. And so I get it. There's a time and place for all of that. But before we get into
1:25:28
talking about the new album, which I'm very excited to get into, you said before in interviews that
1:25:32
you believe that God gave you the gift of playing drums so that you could give it away. What do you
1:25:38
mean by that? Did I say that? Yeah, you've said that multiple times. So you can't, you can't sneak
1:25:45
out on the corner. Can't back puddle. Well, this, this idea of drumming is very new to my family.
1:25:55
I mean, no one else in my family plays. It just appeared out of nowhere. Obviously it's,
1:26:00
it's something that as a Christian, I believe I can work with and hone and mold into something
1:26:10
that's bigger than me. I mean, if you look at the band, there's no way, there's no way in hell that
1:26:15
five guys from Anaheim, Pennsylvania should be able to reach six continents in 40-some countries
1:26:23
and be a band for 17 years. Yeah, okay, there's a way, there's a way, hard work and, you know,
1:26:28
writing good songs and everything. But the thing is, when you, when you uncover that first layer of
1:26:34
topstool and you look what's underneath of it, there's something else going on. There's something
1:26:39
else going on and you have to look for it. It doesn't just show its face and it's, it's not as
1:26:44
obvious as like, oh yeah, they're hardworking and oh yeah, they, they've made good decisions. Yeah,
1:26:49
that's true. But there's a master plan and somehow my drumming fits into that plan
1:26:55
in that this, this instrument is so special and important to me. If this band were not
1:27:02
here, I would probably still be playing. But what has happened as a result of what I believe is
1:27:08
this master plan is so much bigger than me just hitting, hitting drums and cymbals,
1:27:13
with sticks. You know, it's, it's so much bigger than, than writing a bunch of songs on a farm. Um,
1:27:19
it's, it's God using what, what he's made for his benefit and for the, the benefit of those that he
1:27:27
loves. Um, God loves us. He loves you. He loves me. And he, he really doesn't have to. He really
1:27:36
shouldn't. We certainly do not deserve it. And yet he still does. And he uses any number of things,
1:27:43
as you said, a CPA or podcaster. I mean, these, these are what he gives us, these skills in these,
1:27:52
you know, occupations that seem normal and seem standard. Are, are the areas in which he uses us
1:28:00
the most to impact other people, not because we have God on our, our lips every turn, but it's
1:28:05
just like, no, you're doing your job really well. And what's behind that? What's, what's behind that,
1:28:12
that sense of, you know, diligence and, and integrity? Oh, wait, there's more, there's more to your
1:28:19
character. What else? Oh, okay. So you keep digging and digging and digging and digging and digging.
1:28:24
Um, I believe God's given me this for a much bigger reason than just for me to play drums in my
1:28:30
basement or on the farm. Going on tours is, is proof of that when I talk to people after shows.
1:28:36
Well, I would agree. And I'm glad that God gave you that gift and that you're giving it to,
1:28:42
to all of us and to everybody else. We're certainly better for it. But the whole reason you're here
1:28:46
today, again, is because a new album is coming out. The ninth full link studio album is going to be
1:28:51
released on April 3rd. It's called Guardians. You can pre-order it now again. Guys, that link is
1:28:56
in the description, but you've already released the first single. It's called Defender.
1:29:26
And it is a brutal song. I mean, it's a song with, with two breakdowns and some people don't like
1:29:32
counting breakdowns. I do because they're awesome. And so it's got two breakdowns. Is it possible?
1:29:38
Is it possible you guys are getting heavier as you get older? Absolutely.
1:29:42
Well, like, that doesn't make any sense. You're supposed to be chilling out. You're supposed to,
1:29:46
like, you know, do more mellow stuff. But it like, it seems like you're ramping it up a little bit.
1:29:50
Dude, we've, we've, uh, we've been through some stuff, man. You got to write about it. Take out
1:29:55
your aggression, you know. But you're so, you're so nice. Like, so, I mean, I just don't understand
1:30:00
where all this because you say you don't have angst, but it seemed real angsty when you're playing
1:30:04
the drums with that big old beard. Like, that's just kind of how it goes. But the thing is,
1:30:08
is the song is very interesting. Yeah, well, it's, it's kind of a cool deal. Like, I've mentioned
1:30:12
this before. Like, he is legend is one of my favorite bands. And it's because every, every album
1:30:18
sounds different, but you know, it's he is legend. I feel the same thing with you guys. Like,
1:30:23
as soon as that song came on, it's like, yeah, I know that's August Burns Red, but it still feels
1:30:27
so different. But I feel like it comes back to the overall writing process for August Burns Red,
1:30:32
because there's been a lot of talk about the band's collaborative writing process. It's not just,
1:30:37
Hey, you're the basis. Write the baseline in the shut up. Hey, you're the drummer. I don't want
1:30:41
to hear about your lyrics. You know, it's just, I keep, I feel like I'm picking on them. I've
1:30:45
been picking on them the whole show, but like, you know, maybe don't show them this, this episode.
1:30:49
But you know, if you would explain kind of the right, yeah. Okay, great. Great. But he'll, I like
1:30:55
him too. He can come on here and defend himself. I don't have any problems with it. But tell us
1:30:59
about how the writing process has defined as evolved over time for the band. And did any of that kind
1:31:06
of change as as y'all were writing and recording guardians? It's changed a lot. In the beginning,
1:31:11
we used to play together. We used to play together before, I don't know, we used to write songs together
1:31:17
in the same place, in the same space. Now we write individually with each other. We get to the studio,
1:31:23
we've never played the song together before in person. So JB will write all the guitar parts,
1:31:29
Dustin will write his guitar parts. They'll send them to me. I'll write all the drum parts.
1:31:33
I'll get into the studio, record drums. JB's sitting there hearing me play the drum parts to the song
1:31:39
you wrote in guitar for the first time while it's being recorded. So that's, it's kind of unique,
1:31:44
you know. It's, it's um, it's effective for us. It's efficient. A lot of bands are more jambanned
1:31:50
where they get a lot done when they're playing together in person. We do not. We're more meticulous
1:31:54
and able to be more efficient this way. Lyrically speaking, um, I wrote about five or six lyrics on
1:32:01
this record and Brent wrote the rest. And so that is also a collaborative effort. But ultimately,
1:32:08
the goal is to write the best possible song pop, the best possible song. So that it doesn't really
1:32:14
matter who contributed what part or what instrument, but it's just, it's the best song that we could
1:32:20
possibly write as a group of five guys. And that's the way we've always viewed the writing process. So
1:32:27
JB, you'll come up with the drum part. I think it's cool. He thinks my part sucks. Perfect. I'll
1:32:32
record it. That's not what you would expect to hear. You know what I mean? When you're talking
1:32:35
about people, because there's so much pride and, you know, people that are musicians are like,
1:32:39
well, I'm an artist. And this is my art. And are you saying my art's not any good? And it sounds like
1:32:43
in your band that yeah, at any point, like I've been picking on Jordan this whole time, but Jordan
1:32:48
can just say, no, no, Matt. I mean, this, this drum part stinks. What if you played it this way,
1:32:52
or what if you did it that way? And I think that's healthy for the band overall, wouldn't you say?
1:32:56
Yeah, it's taken a long time though to get there. But yeah, it's, it's very healthy because
1:33:03
like the, the problem with, the problem with the arts is that it's hard for people to accept
1:33:10
criticism because they feel like they're being attacked for their, for who they are, you know.
1:33:16
Um, I heard, I heard it said once that in the business world, the idol is money.
1:33:24
Be creative as you want to, but hold on, not, not too creative as to compromise the bottom line.
1:33:31
In the artistic world, the idol is creativity. Make money. Sure. That's fine. Be business,
1:33:37
my butt. Hold on, not in, not, uh, hold on. You got to stop there because it's starting to infringe
1:33:43
on the creative aspect. So the business world and the artistic world are just flip-flopped.
1:33:48
In the business world, the idol's money in the artistic world, the idol's creativity,
1:33:52
but it's really just one in the same. The thing about being an artist is that it's,
1:33:58
it's, it's hard to accept criticism when in fact it is the best possible thing for you because
1:34:03
if you are going to grow, then you need to be open to someone else saying, I really don't think
1:34:10
that's that good. In fact, that drum feel sucks. Like where do you play in there? Let me show you
1:34:14
something else. You learn to play someone else's idea, which therefore makes you a better musician
1:34:19
and in the end, it makes a better song. That was not the case like 10 years ago. We used to get into
1:34:24
fights in the studio. Like not, you know, I used to, I used to play whatever I played and if someone
1:34:30
was like, I don't think I would just be like, shut up, stop. It's fine. You don't know what you're
1:34:37
talking about, loser. But I feel like that that's healthy for you guys as a band. And I know with
1:34:43
all of us, if somebody is critical of a podcast I've done or any type of content that I put out,
1:34:47
you know, I get defensive because it's like, well, I put my best foot forward. But when someone points
1:34:51
out that perhaps you didn't, that should be good for you. It's like, you would if you were doing if
1:34:56
you were doing a workout wrong at the gym, and it was so wrong that you were eventually going to
1:35:01
hurt yourself, you wouldn't be mad at a guy for coming up and saying, Hey, would you would you
1:35:05
mind if I showed you an adjustment that may make this easier for you or may, you know, keep you
1:35:09
safe? Like you wouldn't do that. So it's all about improvement. It's all about getting better.
1:35:13
But the last question of the day I got for you is from the new album again, guys, it comes out
1:35:18
on April 3rd. So make sure that you get that, make sure you pre-order it. Is there a song
1:35:23
that you are personally especially proud of that's going to be off the new album? Something for
1:35:28
us to look forward to. You bet. There's a song called Lighthouse. Lighthouse is about
1:35:34
the Good Samaritan, actually. This is a it's a it's a fairly long song. Well, say that.
1:35:47
There are longer songs, but it's it took me a long time to write this song because
1:35:54
it's very personal to me. It's about reaching out and helping someone else in need and how
1:36:03
too often the church does a [inaudible]-poor job of doing that. It turned their back to people in need
1:36:11
because the people in need don't fit into what they think they need to associate with. And it's
1:36:18
complete trash. The genre in which I play, you know, there are some of the best people I've ever met
1:36:26
are people that will will never go inside of a church, you know. And I love them. I love them and
1:36:34
they need help and they need guidance and the church just like turns a blind eye. So this song
1:36:43
called Lighthouse, there's there's a line just pulled it up here. Passion in action is compassion.
1:36:52
Love is greater than what it's made of. It will cost you someone has to pay, but it's only when
1:36:58
you give nothing that you've wasted your wealth away. It talks about the Good Samaritan. I actually
1:37:03
researched this. Did you know the Good Samaritan, if you're not familiar, story in the Bible, Good
1:37:08
Samaritan, this battered beat up broken man on the side of a road? There are several people who
1:37:16
have an opportunity to help him and instead they step over him and continue on their way and someone
1:37:21
stops the good Samaritan stops and helps him. Okay, I researched this. Did you know that the
1:37:28
road that the Good Samaritan was was found on? It was not a very wide road. I wanted to look
1:37:36
this up to make sure because I thought what if this road was just really wide and this religious
1:37:41
person just didn't see him. If you look up the details of this story, it's it's it could not be
1:37:52
the case. It's an impossibility that this religious man did not see him. In fact, he would have had to
1:37:57
have stepped over literally stepped over this broken man. And so in the second part of this song
1:38:04
White House, I'm critical of the church in saying, "Help nowhere to be found, just the sound of
1:38:12
church bells, a congregation too good to turn around. Their prayers to a God are spoken in vain.
1:38:17
His home is with the broken. He is the answer to their pain. A faith so fragile, they're told to
1:38:22
never leave, scared they'll be seen for who for what they are, not what they've achieved. So who will
1:38:29
rise up, who will reach out? A monster's legacy ends the day he dies. The man never forgotten is
1:38:35
the one who's crucified. The treasure is in the tatters, not just another cog in the wheel, a
1:38:39
stranger's face and a foreign place. Divine design will light the way, help those in need and you've
1:38:44
said more than words could ever say." So this song, I'm really hoping and I really hope that this
1:38:52
song is a song that encourages change in people and that they don't look at someone who is considered
1:38:59
an outcast or someone that requires too much of them or too far outside of what they're comfortable
1:39:05
with. I hope that people adjust their perspective and say, "You know what? Those are the kind of
1:39:13
people that when I spend time with them will probably impact me more than I could ever impact
1:39:17
them because they'll teach me what it is to really love and to really live in a way that's
1:39:23
nonjudgmental and humble and fair. And in the end, we'll be able to help each other out, pick each
1:39:30
other up instead of just trashing each other all the time." That's great, man. If anybody which all
1:39:37
of you should be picking up this new album, that is actually track five on the album. So make sure
1:39:41
you take a look at that. That's right after Defender, which is a single that they just released
1:39:45
here recently. But man, that's all for me. We went everywhere in this conversation. I really
1:39:50
appreciate it. Is there anything else that you want to get off your chest? Yeah, well, yeah. I
1:39:54
actually haven't really talked about Lighthouse before. So that's personal to me and that's something
1:40:00
that, like I said, I'm hopeful. If you're going to start anywhere on this record, start with Lighthouse.
1:40:07
If you have Spotify, just start with track five. Just give it a listen. Give it a couple listens
1:40:12
and I hope that it's helpful in the same way that I have found that story helpful. I hope
1:40:22
it's helpful to you too. There's an event that I'm doing called Beating Drums to Battle Cancer.
1:40:28
It's February 23rd and it's here actually in Lancaster County. There's a little five-year-old
1:40:34
girl named McKenna who's battling cancer the second time. The last thing in the world, her
1:40:38
family should have to worry about its money. I saw that they needed like five grand and like,
1:40:43
okay, we can put that together. We should be able to put that together pretty easily in one night.
1:40:47
So we're doing an event. I'm going to be playing drums. A couple songs. We're going to be doing a live
1:40:51
podcast recording and if you want to come out, great. You can buy some raffle stuff. We have
1:40:57
a symbol, sticks. We have a $2,000 pair of Ultimeneer headphones, a lot of other cool stuff for the
1:41:03
raffle. And then if you just want to donate, you do that as well. If you go to my Instagram at Matthew
1:41:08
Griner, there's a link in my profile. Awesome. Yeah, guys, I've got the link for his Instagram
1:41:14
page here in the show notes. And so, guys, this is one of those times where we get to show out
1:41:18
where we can actually be the church in motion and help somebody out. I mean, we've all got
1:41:22
problems. We've all got issues, but I'm sure that this family would appreciate it even if you just
1:41:27
could donate a little bit of that. But again, guys, one last time, Guardians, the new August
1:41:32
Burns Red album is going to be released on April the 3rd, their ninth full link studio album,
1:41:37
Matt Griner. Thanks for coming on on Daunte to Life on Man's podcast.
1:41:40
Dude, thank you so much. This was, this was very well done. And I hope if you're listening to this,
1:41:46
that you got something out of it, continue to support this podcast, keep listening to it. This
1:41:50
is a really good thing. So thank you. So there you have it, guys. Wasn't that awesome? I mean,
1:41:56
I tried to tell you from the beginning that this is not just some, you know, knuckle dragon, metal
1:42:00
drummer, like this is, this is a nuanced dude that has a very wide range of knowledge, especially
1:42:06
with music, but also has a deep faith and spends a lot of time thinking about that. We didn't
1:42:10
really talk about this on air, but there's a song on the album. It's actually the last song of the
1:42:14
album called Three Fountains. And he was talking a little bit about what that is like. And it was
1:42:19
very scriptural and also very brutal and very, very visceral and real. And just, it was a pleasure
1:42:26
talking to that guy. And you know, a lot of the guys in the band are very similar to Matt. But again,
1:42:30
as you can tell, just a really, really nice guy gave us way more time than what we had originally
1:42:35
agreed to. Like we just kept flown with the interview. So we really do appreciate it. All right, guys,
1:42:39
before we let you out of here, we are going to do a quick resilience boost. As you know, by now,
1:42:42
we are a men's ministry and our mission is cultivating manly resilience. Specifically,
1:42:46
we do that by providing you content like this podcast that helps you forge spiritual, mental,
1:42:51
and physical toughness. So today, we're going to talk a little bit about all the things or I'll
1:42:55
give you a rundown of all the things that we talked about. So I've got the website augustburnsred.com.
1:42:59
That's where you can preorder the new album Guardians before it comes out on April the 3rd.
1:43:03
I've got the music video that they released for their single, the first single off of that album
1:43:07
called Defender. And Revolver did a kind of a two part docu series on them called a metal band
1:43:13
from Amish Country. So I've got both of those links here. They were interviewed twice. This is
1:43:17
August Burns Red was interviewed twice on the labeled podcast. So I've got links to both of
1:43:21
those shows earlier. We talked about the fact that Matt Greiner did a cover of a Hillsong worship
1:43:27
song. So that's what a beautiful name. So you can check that out. And I've also got Matt Greiner's
1:43:32
Instagram and his YouTube channel. But again, on his Instagram, if you go into the links there,
1:43:36
there's a link where we can go out there and we can help out that family and that little girl
1:43:40
that's fighting through cancer up there in Pennsylvania. All right, guys, thanks so much for listening
1:43:43
to this podcast. You really do appreciate it. If you would, please subscribe on Apple podcast,
1:43:48
iTunes, SoundCloud, Spotify, Google podcast or Stitcher, and refer your friends to listen and
1:43:52
share this on social media. Guys, we would love a five star review from you if you think we deserve
1:43:57
one. So leave us those five stars in a few sentences, letting us know why you like the content.
1:44:01
I'm currently booking speaking engagements for the entirety of 2020. So if you want me to come
1:44:04
speak on your podcast at your team, at your men's event, whatever, hit me up info at undaunted.life.
1:44:10
Again, that's I N F O at undaunted.life. The website is www dot undaunted.life. You can follow us on
1:44:16
Instagram and Twitter at undaunted life or Facebook.com backslash undaunted life. Check out our free
1:44:21
devotionals on the U version Bible app. Just search undaunted life under plans. And as always,
1:44:26
we want to thank the band August Burns Red and especially Matt Griner for allowing us to use
1:44:31
their entire music library for our content. That's why you got all that great music here
1:44:35
in this particular episode. The intro outro track on this podcast is our song King of Sorrow,
1:44:40
which is off their latest record entitled Phantom Anthem. The links are in the description.
1:44:45
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep cultivating manly resilience,
1:44:50
keep forging spiritual, mental and physical toughness. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.