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This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast.
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I'm your host Kyle Thompson.
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Let's get into it.
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All right, guys.
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Now, let's go ahead and get into today's content.
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I'm going to talk about documentary today.
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That documentary is called babies are still murdered here.
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Babies are still murdered here.
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Now, the still part is important because this is actually a part two to a documentary that
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was released back in 2014.
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So back in 2014, there was a documentary released named babies are murdered here, okay?
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And this was a very short documentary about an hour long.
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And you can find it on YouTube.
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Don't worry.
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I'll get the link for you here in the show notes.
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But it was kind of a new style of abortion clinic ministry, a new style of abortion ministry
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just in general.
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And so there seems to be a couple of different approaches right now to abortion ministries.
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The first is the nice part, right?
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So this is, hey, we're going to just give these, these people that work there of a bottle
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of water and we're just going to be nice and we're going to smile and wear bright colors.
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And then hopefully they won't murder their babies.
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So that's one part.
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Then you've got the other part.
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You've got the screaming ministries, right?
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So you got people holding their megaphones and holding their Bibles and yelling at these
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women and saying they're the worst people alive and, you know, bombarding abortionists
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and all those different things.
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So there's those.
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And then there's this kind of new style, which is obviously somewhere in between those,
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but it's still very forward.
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It's still calling out the sin, the gross and horrible sin that is abortion.
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That is the murder of the unborn, okay?
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So that documentaries had about four or five years now to kind of marinate and get out
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there.
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But then there was a new documentary that was released, I believe it was in 2019 if not,
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it was in 18, but I'm pretty sure it was in 19.
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But this one has a lot more of an influence from Jeff Durban and apology at church.
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So obviously we've talked about Jeff Durban and apology at church on here before.
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I've talked about his podcast episode 82 of this podcast.
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It was in a conversation between Jeff Durban and Andy Stanley kind of debate and you kind
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of got to watch Jeff Durban in large part run rough shot over Andy Stanley and some of
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the things that Andy Stanley believes.
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But we really respect that ministry here.
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We really respect Jeff Durban in the way that he does things.
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We certainly don't agree with all his theology.
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We don't agree with everything that he's ever said or done, but we have a lot of respect
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and we really like what those guys are doing over there.
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But one of the most amazing things that that church and that that ministry has done is they
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started a ministry, I guess you can call it called end abortion now, okay?
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So if you go to their website, which I'll of course include for you in the show notes
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as well, the summary of the website or basically what they're here for is this.
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We are a global movement of local Christian churches committed to ending abortion with
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the gospel of Jesus Christ.
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So I think the important thing about that, I'm sure Jeff Durban would say is that last
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part, which is with the gospel of Jesus Christ.
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But this kind of begs the question, anytime there's a movement or anytime there is something
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that is launched that's getting any type of a headway, where did it come from?
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What started it?
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And sometimes with these movements, there aren't specific things that have started
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these things, but within the abortion now, there is definably a moment when end abortion
3:21
now became a thing and it happened in 2016.
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So back in 2016, my home state, the state that I'm currently living in the state of
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Oklahoma was considering Senate bill 1118, which essentially would have outlawed abortion
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in the state of Oklahoma, totally.
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So without any restrictions and also criminalized those who were involved in the process of an
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abortion, right?
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So this could be certainly the abortionist, anyone that maybe have paid for the abortion,
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the woman herself, all of those people could have been liable for the murder of that child.
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Now at that time, there were a lot of pro life, supposedly advocates that were in the state
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of Oklahoma, right, flexing and getting on the news and doing their thing.
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And one of them was Tony Lawinger.
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So Tony Langer, or it's lying or whichever, it's L-A-U-I-N-G-E-R, but I think it's Lawinger.
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He's the vice president of national right to life.
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That is a pro life organization that has been around for a very, very long time.
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And he's also the chairman of Oklahoma's for life.
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And so Jeff Durbin had kind of caught wind of some letters that Tony had written to different
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people in politics within the state of Oklahoma to different representatives.
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And so he invited him to come on apology at a church and I've got the entire interview
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for you.
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It's about 45, 50 minute long interview.
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I think it's interesting.
4:37
I think you should definitely take a look at it.
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But there was an exact moment when, and in this interview, you don't see video of Tony
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Lawinger, but you do see video of Jeff Durbin, Jeff about comes on glued, right?
4:50
During this clip.
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And so it's a very short clip that I'm going to play for you here.
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It's only about three minutes long, but this is what spawned the movement, which is called
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end abortion now.
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So here we go into the clip.
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Okay.
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Thank you, Tony.
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You've been so gracious to me today.
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I really appreciate it.
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Two more questions that I think will really help me.
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And just in terms of understanding where the national right to life kind of comes from
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and how you guys want to approach this, because again, I'm fairly new to this fight.
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I mean, I've obviously been pro life since I've been a believer, but I'm fairly new to
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the specific fight over the last three years.
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God has actually used our church to save over 50 babies from death.
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So it's been a huge blessing, but it's, yeah, praise God.
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It's been, it's been, it's been really a blessing, but it's interesting for me to kind of understand
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how you guys operate and how you guys think we should go about doing this more effectively.
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So two questions I think what people would want to know is number one, and it's, it's
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a tough one.
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And so I'd love to hear how you feel about this.
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Are women who have abortions murderers?
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We do not believe that a woman who has an abortion should be prosecuted.
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We definitely believe that criminal penalties are appropriate for an abortionist.
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And the laws that we've worked on through the years have had criminal penalties for
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those who commit abortion.
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The woman herself, we do not believe should be prosecuted very often women are pressured
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into getting abortion.
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The leading cause of death, this is a striking statistic, the leading cause of death for
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pregnant women in the United States is murdered.
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They are killed by a boyfriend or a husband or whoever the father of a child may be who
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has pressured them to get an abortion woman has refused and has said she wants to marry
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her baby to term and that is a outrageous reality, but it is tragically true.
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Okay.
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Well, that helps a lot, Tony.
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So we would say the abortionist is a, we would say that's murder.
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We want to have him prosecuted for murder, but the woman, not so much.
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We don't want to, we don't want to go that round.
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Right, we don't, we don't believe that the woman should be prosecuted.
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Okay.
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So, okay.
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And I, you know, it's a, it's a fine point, but, but we would not say the abortionist
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ought to be prosecuted for murder.
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We would say the abortionist ought to be prosecuted for killing the unborn child or for on a
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side, but murder is a, murder is a technical term that depends on logic circumstance.
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And that is where all this got started because I don't know if you could hear there.
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It's kind of subtle.
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If you, if you watch the clip, which I'm going to include for you here as well, if you watch
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the clip, when he says, when Tony launders says that he does not believe that the abortionist
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should be charged with murder, Jeff Durbin throws his hands up, his pin flies out of his
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hand and hits the table.
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You can kind of hear it hit the table.
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But I mean, he had about five seconds to collect himself before he actually got to the end
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of the interview.
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But that is when all this got started.
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Jeff Durbin said that he looked at the guys that were there with them.
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They were all a gas.
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They were all like, what in the world, all the people that were listening to the audio
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of the recording, and that's whenever they decided they were going to do something about
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it.
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And that's when they launched into abortion now.
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Okay.
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So if you're not familiar with into abortion now, into abortion now, I'm not too terribly
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familiar with them, but I do know that they provide a lot of free materials to local churches
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to basically galvanize them and weaponize them for the sake of the unborn.
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Okay.
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And so we'll get into more of this later when we get into the documentary, but essentially
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they're trying to equip local churches to be able to reach out and minister to those
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that are inside and outside of the abortion mills that are in their communities.
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Okay.
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And one of the ways that into abortion now has gotten out there to a lot of people here
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recently is this follow up documentary, which is babies are still murdered here.
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And this is just a summary from their website.
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It says this after 40 years, millions of dollars and multinational pro-life political lobbies,
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abortion is still alive and well in our country.
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Why are babies still murdered here?
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So guys, here's one thing about this podcast.
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I'm going to be cutting this podcast short today.
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And I know I've said that before and then I end up going on for another 30 minutes.
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I'm literally going to be cutting this podcast much shorter than normal because I want you
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to go and watch this documentary.
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Okay.
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This is a free documentary.
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You can find it on Vimeo.
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So if you got a Roku or an Apple TV or something like that and you got the Vimeo app, you can
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search for it and find it there.
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If you just search for babies are still murdered here, it might take you through the into abortion
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now website, you can find it and you can watch it.
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Okay.
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So you can absolutely do that.
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And I want you to be able to do that, but I do want to point out some themes.
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There were a lot of themes throughout this documentary that started coming to mind for
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me.
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And then, you know, I'd spent the last couple of days kind of thinking through just my overall
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thoughts on the documentary.
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And there were five big themes that I saw.
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And so I want to kind of put those in your brain as you watch this, you may find other
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themes, you might find other things that you found that were more important.
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These are the things that I found that were of incredible importance.
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Okay.
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So the first big theme I saw is that this documentary claims that pro life groups don't
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actually want to end abortion.
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And I did not say that incorrectly.
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That's exactly what this documentary basically says pro life groups don't want to actually
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end abortion.
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Okay.
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And the biggest reason why, and that leads into the second biggest theme here, which is
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pro life groups only want the incremental approach, not the total approach, okay?
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And so what you've seen in a lot of these states, again, these two things are connected,
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pro life groups don't want to actually end abortion and pro life groups only want the
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incremental approach, not the total approach.
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You've seen a lot of legislation that's happened across the country, even with heartbeat bills,
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you see a lot of things where it's this incrementally, you know, we're just gonna, you know, we had
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abortion all the way up until the moment of birth, but we're gonna start to kind of bring
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that back a little bit.
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Let's bring it back to 20 weeks.
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Let's bring it back to 12 weeks.
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Let's bring it back to the heartbeat, those types of things.
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So it's an incremental approach that we're just going to chip away at Roe v. Wade and
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maybe at some point down down the line, maybe 510 100 years from now, maybe we can revisit
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the whole Roe v. Wade thing, okay, and go back to episode six of this podcast.
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If you want my thoughts on Roe v. Wade, I'm not gonna go into that here because I promise
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you I'd keep it short, but at the same time, this documentary basically says the incremental
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approach is not sufficient and it certainly doesn't protect the unborn.
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And one of the biggest ones is is because, and I obviously trumpeted a lot of these things
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as well, but I've given my concerns on them before as well.
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But with heartbeat bills, a heartbeat bill seems like an awesome thing because you can
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detect the heartbeat at around six weeks, right?
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You can detect the heartbeat.
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But in this documentary, they actually show, oh, I don't know exactly what that person
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is called, but they show a woman who does ultrasounds, right?
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So whatever that person's called, this woman does an ultrasound, but she takes the same
12:11
woman and she controls the ultrasound the first way to where you can see the baby, you
12:15
can see the head, you can see the arms, you can see the spine, you know, you got great
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pictures, you find the heartbeat, everything.
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And then right after that, she does an ultrasound as if she's not trying to find the heart or
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that she's just inept, like she's not good at that job.
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And it just looks like a blob on the screen.
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She couldn't find the heartbeat.
12:34
And basically the point that they're making is why in the world would you give Planned
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Parenthood, the biggest, you know, owner of baby murder in the United States, I guess
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you could say, why would you give them the ability to control the ultrasound?
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Because if the law is basically, if we can detect a heartbeat on the ultrasound, how is
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that going to stop abortion?
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Because you're basically giving the keys to be able to do that to the people that are
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performing the murder for money, right?
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So those are two big themes that are talked about for a long time within this documentary.
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A third big theme is that pro-life groups are not using the gospel as their basis for
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their approach, okay?
13:13
And so they hammer that on.
13:15
I mean, one of the things about this documentary, I feel like the documentary skipped around
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a lot.
13:19
It was kind of like, okay, what's what's the point of this documentary?
13:23
That's why I'm kind of like trying to help you a little bit and say, well, here's five
13:26
big themes to remind yourself of as you're, as you're listening through, but they are,
13:31
they have a huge deal with people not using the gospel as their basis for this approach.
13:35
They are highly critical of people like Ben Shapiro or people like him that, you know,
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take a say that, hey, this doesn't have to be a religious approach.
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This can be a scientific approach to the pro-life cause.
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You know, we have science on our side, all those things, the, the national, or the, you
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know, uh, March for life last year, they were talking about science that was their big theme
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for the year.
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And you know, I, I kind of get it.
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But here's the thing that I would ask Jeff Durbin and his team because, because they want,
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they want to only a gospel approach to that.
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And I'm, I'm on their team in that.
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I understand that without the gospel, without scripture, without God, we don't even know
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why we would want to protect a human life.
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Like that is the Judeo Christian framework and ethic gives us the ability to protect people
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and gives us a reason why we should do that, why that's a good thing, a good moral thing
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to do.
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But my, my problem with Jeff Durbin and, and maybe not a problem with Jeff Durbin, but
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maybe their approach, especially with this documentary, they absolutely made it seem
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like if you are not a, you know, five point Calvinist, reformed Christian and you use
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all of those things inside of your theology and philosophy as you approach the pro-life
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issue, then they don't want you.
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That is the gist that I got and I'm going to try to maybe get Jeff Durbin on here and
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have him explain it a little bit further.
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But that's the sense that I got is that if you're not going to do it our way, we don't
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want you in the movement.
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And I just got to say, I don't like that.
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I don't like that approach because there are certainly people that are atheists or agnostics
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that understand science and think to themselves, now, wait a minute, you know, a one-celled
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zygote, I mean, it has all the DNA of, you know, a person that's 80 years old, like in
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that one-celled zygote, that DNA can tell us, you know, what your eye color is going
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to be, what your hair color is going to be, how tall you're going to be.
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If you're going to have any issues, like those, that's already there, like that's life.
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So why wouldn't we protect that?
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You can get there without the Judeo-Christian ethic.
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You can.
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Now, a lot of these people are going to have those thoughts having grown up with Judeo-Christian
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ethic surrounding them, even if it wasn't in their house, they live in the West, which
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allows them to basically surmise those types of things.
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But that was something that I was not terribly thrilled with, with this documentary, is I
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got their points.
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You know, I'm going to trumpet their calls, like I'm with them, I want to support them.
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But this idea that there's some exclusivity to how you should do this, I found that not
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to be terribly helpful, but maybe I'm off my rocker.
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You guys can watch it and kind of give me your opinions as well.
16:07
A last two themes here before I let you guys go, the fourth theme is we've flipped all
16:12
politics as local to all politics as federal.
16:15
So Vodie Bakken was actually in this documentary and he was the one that brought up this point
16:19
to where when we think about the abortion issue in the United States, Christian or non-Christian,
16:23
whatever, we see it as a federal issue, right?
16:26
You know, I'm voting for Donald Trump in 2020 because he's going to be able to probably
16:30
get another Supreme Court justice or two and then we're going to overturn Roe.
16:34
You kind of hear people talk like that.
16:36
Well, maybe, maybe that could absolutely happen.
16:39
He could lose and then Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren or somebody else like that is going
16:43
to put someone they want on the court.
16:45
And then does that mean we can't end it at that point?
16:48
But the thing about it was is a couple of generations ago, people didn't really pay attention
16:52
to federal politics that much because it didn't really affect them in their day to day living,
16:57
right?
16:58
It was the local stuff.
16:59
They wanted to know who the sheriff was.
17:01
They wanted to know who, you know, the people in the school board were.
17:04
They wanted to know who kind of their local, their mayor, like those are the people that
17:07
they wanted to know what those people were about.
17:10
But now, and I can't even fall into this, it's so easy to focus on the craziness going
17:14
on in Washington, DC, than it is to focus on what's going on in your own backyard.
17:19
And that is directly, directly related to the abortion topic because what end abortion
17:24
now is equipping churches to do is to take care of things in their local communities,
17:29
to save babies and save women in their local communities, right?
17:33
So that's, that's a big thing that they talk about a lot.
17:36
And the last theme here is that women should be prosecuted for murder right along with
17:40
other parties involved in the abortion, okay?
17:43
You hear that quite a bit throughout this.
17:45
You can see guys with end abortion now asking people like live action and, um, and national
17:50
right to life and all these different organizations asking them about that point.
17:53
You can hear it in the clip earlier when Jeff Durban was talking to Tony Langer.
17:56
And here's the thing guys is I've talked about that too.
17:59
It doesn't make logical sense to me that you would not charge the woman with murder if
18:04
she got an abortion.
18:06
Now abortion has to be illegal, right?
18:08
That has to be against the law.
18:10
You know, you have to make it the, the murdering of an unborn child.
18:14
You have to make that against the law.
18:15
But the thing about it is is if you were only to charge the abortionist with murder, then
18:21
what do you charge the woman with?
18:23
And guys, I've used this example before or something like it.
18:26
If you hate somebody, right? so, you know, your best friend, you know, sleeps with your
18:30
wife or something like that.
18:31
And you're like, my best friend gots to go.
18:33
And then you pay somebody because that's your best friend because you can't be the one
18:37
to pull the trigger.
18:38
You just, you love them too much.
18:39
You don't want to do that.
18:40
You pay some dude to kill your best friend.
18:43
And if they catch the dude that killed your best friend and he rolls on you, guess what?
18:47
You both go down for murder, right?
18:49
That's what, that's where we live there in this country.
18:52
There have been people that have gotten life in prison because they were driving the car
18:55
when somebody got out, shot somebody and got back in.
18:58
They were an accessory to murder.
19:00
So what is the woman at that point?
19:03
Because there's this idea that, you know, and some people say, and even Tony Lounder
19:06
said it, it's that these women are hyper pressured into getting the abortion, right?
19:10
Maybe they're pressured by, you know, pressure at work or they're pressured by a boyfriend
19:14
or they're pressured by all these individuals.
19:16
But the overwhelming majority of women that end up going to these clinics to get these
19:21
things done, again, they're doing this for the sake of convenience.
19:24
They're murdering the baby inside of them because it would be inconvenient otherwise
19:27
to have them.
19:29
Either they feel like they're too young or maybe they already have two kids and they
19:32
don't want a third kid or maybe they just don't feel like they got enough money or the dad's
19:36
a deadbeat or maybe they don't know who the dad is or whatever the situation might be.
19:39
But it is, it is rare in all the statistics back this up.
19:43
It is rare that a woman is basically forced into the abortion clinic at gunpoint, right?
19:48
Or even forced to do those types of things.
19:51
But even still, let's go back to my original scenario.
19:54
Let's say, you know, you got a guy, you know, your best friend cheat on your wife and you're
19:58
mad and you're hyped up and you're angry and then you hire someone to kill them and let's
20:03
say you felt pressured into doing it because you just can't let that thing stand, right?
20:08
You got to get your friend back.
20:09
If you tell the police that or better yet, if you tell a judge and jury that, you think
20:13
they're going to be like, Oh, I, you felt pressure.
20:16
Oh, you know what?
20:18
That's fine.
20:19
Can we get these handcuffs off this guy?
20:20
Let's go ahead and let them go.
20:21
He felt pressure.
20:22
Let's get him out of here, right?
20:24
That would make any sense.
20:26
If you pay someone else to murder somebody and they are caught and you were caught, you're
20:31
guilty of murder.
20:32
And even if you're not caught, you're guilty of sin.
20:35
That is a sin to do that.
20:37
And you certainly see that throughout this pod or throughout this podcast, throughout
20:40
this documentary as well, is they try to drive that point home like, why wouldn't we make
20:44
the women liable?
20:45
Right?
20:46
We're not saying that, that they're, you know, acting on, I don't know exactly.
20:50
I don't really want to get into the, to mill you of that because I want you to make sure
20:53
that you kind of create your own opinions on it.
20:55
But as you're watching this documentary, I want you to pay attention to that, as well
20:59
as the other five.
21:00
I'll just go ahead and repeat them here.
21:01
The big themes.
21:02
Number one, pro-life groups don't actually want to end abortion.
21:05
Number two, pro-life groups only want incremental approach, not the total approach.
21:10
Number three, pro-life groups are not using the gospel as their basis for their approach.
21:14
Number four, we've flipped all politics as local to all politics as federal.
21:18
And the number five, women should be prosecuted for murder right along with all other parties
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involved in the abortion.
21:23
So again, I'm going to make sure that you have all this information so that you can go watch
21:26
the documentary yourself.
21:27
I want you to reach out to me.
21:29
Let me know what you thought.
21:30
Okay, guys, before we let you go, we are going to do a quick resilience boost.
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As you know, by now we are a men's ministry and our mission is cultivating manly resilience.
21:36
Specifically, we do that by providing content that for the spiritual, mental and physical
21:40
toughness.
21:41
So today, here are the things that I've got for you.
21:42
First, I've got a link to babies are still murdered here because again, I want you to
21:46
watch this entire documentary, it's about an hour 40, hour 45 minutes or something like
21:50
that.
21:51
You can get a couple of episodes of your favorite Netflix show and watch this instead.
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I've got the link to the end abortion now website, so you can check them out.
21:58
I also have the link to the interview with Tony Langer and Jeff Durbin.
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That was on apology radio, not, I think I said apology at church earlier, but it's apology
22:06
or radio.
22:07
So it's their entire interview.
22:09
So you can watch that.
22:10
It's super interesting.
22:11
And then I've got actually a link, a YouTube link to the original babies are murdered here
22:14
documentary that came out about five years ago.
22:16
All right, guys.
22:17
Thanks so much for listening to the podcast.
22:18
We really do appreciate it.
22:19
If you would, please subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud, Spotify and Google Play and refer
22:23
your friends to listen and share this on social media.
22:25
Guys, like I said from the top, leave us a five star view.
22:27
We would super appreciate it.
22:29
I'm currently booking speaking engagements for the entirety of 2020.
22:32
So if you want me to come speak at your men's event, at your church, to your team, whatever
22:35
hit me up, email info@undontan.life again, info@undontan.life.
22:40
The website is www.undontan.life.
22:42
You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @undontanlife or facebook.com/undontanlife.
22:47
Check out our free devotionals on the Uvirgin Bible app.
22:49
Just search "undontan.life" under plans and as always, we want to thank the band August
22:52
Burns Red for allowing us to use their entire music library for our content.
22:56
The interaltio track on this podcast is our song "King of Sorrow" which stopped their
22:59
latest record entitled "Phantom Anthem."
23:01
The links to all of this are in the description.
23:03
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
23:05
Remember, keep cultivating manly resilience, keep forging spiritual, mental and physical
23:11
toughness, keep seeking the Lion of Judah.
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[Music]