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078 - Answering 17 Pro - Abortion Arguments

May 23, 2019 56m 31s Full transcript available
078 - Answering 17 Pro - Abortion Arguments
0:00 / 56m 31s
In this episode, I tackle 17 pro-abortion arguments head-on, providing you with the tools to engage in these critical conversations. It's time for pro-lifers to step up, speak out, and defend the sanctity of life with confidence.
Transcript
1424 segments
0:00 (upbeat music)
0:02 - This is "On Daunted Life, a Man's Podcast."
0:13 I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
0:16 All right, today guys, we are gonna be answering
0:18 17 pro abortion arguments.
0:20 But before we get into that, we need to do
0:22 a little bit of an update, because like I tell you,
0:24 every week, even after I get done recording these episodes,
0:27 it's like something happens.
0:28 Like the day after that episode, that is newsworthy
0:31 in the pro life and/or pro choice world.
0:34 So just gonna be a little bit of a basic rundown
0:36 of things that we've seen here recently.
0:38 We've had Bernie Sanders and Kirsch and Gillibrand,
0:40 they're both running for the Democratic nomination
0:42 for a president in 2020.
0:45 They both came out, this was actually today,
0:46 I'm recording this on the 20th of May,
0:48 they want a national law legalizing abortions up to birth.
0:53 So essentially what they wanna do is they wanna take
0:55 the law, the unbelievably barbaric law that was approved
0:59 and passed in the state of New York,
1:00 and they want that to become a national law.
1:02 Now some of you might be saying to yourselves,
1:04 well isn't Roe v. Wade, isn't that a national law?
1:07 Don't have time to get into why that's not law,
1:09 it's just a decision made by the Supreme Court,
1:11 it didn't actually make law,
1:13 but they basically went out of their way to say
1:14 that they want that to be legalized across the country.
1:17 And not to be outdone, Elizabeth Warren,
1:19 who is also going to be running for president
1:21 is she's in the process of running for president
1:23 for the Democratic nomination.
1:25 She actually announced a plan to legalize abortions
1:28 up to birth, making it a national law.
1:30 She's got her own plan.
1:32 So Elizabeth Warren, her candidacy is kind of
1:35 dead in the water at this point,
1:37 I mean she's gonna have to really see
1:38 an unbelievable turnaround at this point,
1:40 she's kind of been embarrassed,
1:41 and she's not really hitting it off
1:43 with a lot of the other people.
1:45 But what she's doing is she's coming out
1:46 with these very grandiose and very ridiculous plans
1:48 to do these unbelievable things.
1:50 And so this is one of her attempts in order to do that.
1:53 We also see another Democratic presidential nominee,
1:56 Pete Buttigieg.
1:58 He is the supposedly Christian governor of South Bend
2:02 in the Indiana mayor, rather of South Bend, Indiana.
2:05 And this guy has been seen by a lot of people
2:07 as a very viable candidate for the Democratic field
2:09 because he's kind of seen as a moderate.
2:11 You know, this guy claims to be a Christian,
2:13 even though he's a married homosexual,
2:15 those types of things.
2:16 But he basically came out this week
2:18 and defended abortions up to the point of birth.
2:20 So again, as I've said before,
2:22 and as we've said previously here on this podcast,
2:24 if you're a Democrat, you are part of the party of death
2:27 because this is a main line platform now.
2:30 This is a main line platform.
2:32 Name me a prominent Democrat who is pro-life.
2:35 I'll wait.
2:37 But then on the 16th of March or 16th of May, rather,
2:41 Missouri came out and their legislature passed a bill
2:43 banning abortions after the baby had a detectable heartbeat.
2:47 So this is another heartbeat bill.
2:49 And the bill was actually passed 24 to 10
2:51 and it is expected to be signed
2:52 by pro-life Republican governor Mike Parson.
2:55 So this came a couple of days on the heels
2:58 of really the big thing that we're gonna be talking about
3:00 here on the early part of this podcast.
3:02 And that was what happened on the 14th of May
3:04 where the Alabama legislature approved a bill
3:07 making killing unborn babies by wave abortion a felony.
3:11 And also it put abortionists,
3:13 it would put abortionists in prison
3:15 for up to a life sentence or 99 years
3:18 for performing the procedure.
3:19 So this is the strictest abortion law
3:22 that has been passed really.
3:23 I mean, we've seen stuff in Louisiana.
3:25 We've seen stuff in Missouri.
3:26 We've seen stuff in Georgia and now this one in Alabama.
3:29 This is the one that has the least amount
3:32 of restrictions to it.
3:33 The bill passed 25 to six.
3:34 Governor Kay Ivey quickly signed the bill into law
3:37 and the bill as it stands right now,
3:39 the law will go into effect within the next six months.
3:42 And the thing about this is the media has been lying
3:45 a lot about what this law says and doesn't say.
3:47 There's been a lot of people in the media
3:49 that are claiming that this law would criminalize
3:51 the act for women that have signed off
3:54 on the murder of their babies.
3:55 But this law does not do that.
3:57 Now we've said before on this podcast
3:59 and I understand this is a very unpopular opinion
4:02 even in pro life circles,
4:03 but I'm of the persuasion that these women
4:05 should be held liable for signing off
4:07 on the murder of their babies.
4:09 Now some people think there's a fine line there they say,
4:11 well, what if a woman miscarries?
4:14 Then what happens there is is she potentially
4:16 going to be liable for that life?
4:18 No, that's not what anyone's saying.
4:20 Like no rational thinker would actually think
4:22 that's what someone like me is saying.
4:24 But if I walk into a store and I go into this section
4:29 and I take a little kid with me and I say,
4:31 Hey, can you please kill this kid?
4:34 I will give you $100 for your services.
4:35 And they go, sure sign here.
4:37 And then they kill the kid.
4:38 I'm liable for that kid.
4:40 I'm liable for that murder, right?
4:42 You've seen this scenario before
4:44 where these mob bosses are gang leaders.
4:45 They actually tell someone else to kill someone else
4:47 and they are also held liable for murder.
4:49 We've seen people that are just driving the car.
4:52 Whenever somebody gets out of the car,
4:53 murder somebody gets back in the car.
4:55 Everyone in the car is charged with murder, right?
4:57 So I don't think it's that crazy to think
4:59 that these women that are actively going in
5:01 and seeking out someone killing the baby
5:03 that's inside of them,
5:04 that these women shouldn't be held liable.
5:05 But again, this law in Alabama does not touch that at all.
5:08 But the big thing that made hay for everybody,
5:10 especially on the left,
5:12 is there there was no exceptions for rape or incest.
5:17 And we'll get more into that argument here in a little bit,
5:20 but that was the big one.
5:21 That was the big one that really twerked off
5:23 the political left or the pro-choice,
5:25 pro-abortion, pro-murder crowd,
5:27 because they just, they couldn't fathom a world
5:29 where a underage girl was raped
5:32 and that baby wasn't murdered because of the rape.
5:35 But again, we'll get in that here in just a second.
5:37 But the Alabama law really has set up a real challenge
5:41 to Roe v. Wade.
5:42 'Cause we know that this law is going to be challenged.
5:45 We know that it's gonna go to an appeals court.
5:47 We know that's gonna go to a federal appeals court.
5:49 And then from there,
5:50 the idea is that it might actually make its way
5:53 to the Supreme Court.
5:55 Now, this is not something that's gonna happen quickly.
5:57 I mean, people are saying at the earliest,
5:59 it could reach the Supreme Court in like two years.
6:02 But what this is doing is this isn't a front
6:05 to the pro-choice lobby.
6:07 This isn't a front to Roe v. Wade.
6:09 And we've had these things happen in a lot of different circles
6:12 and you've seen this in a lot of different states.
6:14 It's kind of the incrementalist approach.
6:16 Like, we're just gonna do things little by little.
6:19 We're gonna do things here or there.
6:20 And of course, the reason why that's an issue
6:23 for a lot of people that are on that side
6:25 is because if for whatever reason Roe v. Wade is overturned,
6:28 it doesn't automatically ban abortion across the nation.
6:31 It just takes the laws back to the states.
6:33 There's no federal mandate saying that abortion is legal.
6:36 And so if you've been doing these incremental approaches
6:38 on your state level,
6:39 and then all of a sudden Roe v. Wade is overturned,
6:41 well, you've got all these allowances
6:42 that allow for abortions to occur in your state
6:45 beyond a certain point or for certain reasons, right?
6:49 But then you have the other side of the issue,
6:50 which basically says that if you're not going to have
6:54 any of these restrictions
6:55 and you're just gonna go right at the heart of the issue,
6:57 are you going to be able to get it done on the federal level?
7:00 And this kind of goes all the way back
7:02 to when we talked about Justice Kavanaugh.
7:04 Now, Kavanaugh was like unbelievably,
7:07 immorally maligned for things that he very, very likely
7:11 didn't do and it was an unbelievable circus.
7:14 But at the same time, I was not a fan of Kavanaugh
7:16 being on the Supreme Court from the beginning.
7:20 Because I never thought that this would be a guy
7:22 that would actually vote to overturn Roe.
7:24 And even just as a conservative,
7:27 there's a lot of things that I think he does
7:29 that are not going to make conservatives happy.
7:31 And so if it actually gets to the Supreme Court right now,
7:34 people think that there's a conservative majority
7:36 of five to four, there's not really that.
7:39 You have four votes that are ardently in support
7:43 of abortion, you've got that right off the bat.
7:46 But you only have three votes that are definitely
7:49 in support of the pro-life agenda against Roe v. Wade, right?
7:53 And then there's two kind of up in the air.
7:56 And one of those is Judge Kavanaugh.
7:58 And so that's where I'm sitting right here.
8:00 Again, it's really hard to judge
8:02 where things are gonna go because this law
8:03 hasn't even officially been challenged yet.
8:05 But I really think that we're gonna have an issue
8:08 if it does ever get to the Supreme Court.
8:10 And to be honest with you, I don't even know
8:12 if the Supreme Court will actually,
8:13 listen, we'll actually hear this case.
8:15 I don't really know that that's gonna happen.
8:17 But I will say this, overall I'm pleased.
8:20 I'm obviously pleased that this is something
8:22 that's happening 'cause I feel like the pro-life lobby
8:25 has finally started to nut up a little bit.
8:29 I feel like the tide is actually turning a little bit.
8:31 I feel like pro-lifers have been polite for way too long.
8:36 And I think they're finally starting to get a backbone.
8:39 And I don't know if it's because they sense
8:41 that their constituents will back them up
8:43 or if they sense that the tide is turning
8:45 or the overall reaction is turning for the nation.
8:48 But the thing about the nation is most Americans
8:51 have been very much against abortion
8:54 after the first trimester, pretty much for decades.
8:57 Like nothing substantive has changed there, right?
9:00 We don't see these outsized changes
9:02 even whenever we get new ultrasounds and 3D ultrasounds.
9:05 We don't really see these outsized changes, right?
9:08 It's been pretty standard.
9:10 But that's the thing that I'm really excited about
9:12 is that more people on the pro-life side
9:15 are willing to engage in conversations with people
9:18 about this topic.
9:19 Even if they know they're gonna take a little bit of crap
9:21 and take a little bit of heat.
9:23 We have more people being ardently pro-life
9:26 because the thing about the pro-choice side
9:28 or really the political left in general,
9:30 they don't really have quiet opinions.
9:32 Most of their opinions are pretty loud.
9:34 They want everyone to know.
9:35 It's part of virtue signaling.
9:36 It's like everybody look over here.
9:38 Look at how woke, look at how progressive
9:40 I'm being at this exact moment.
9:42 And so I see a little bit of that with pro-lifers right now,
9:45 but we have morality on our side.
9:47 Like we're for not murdering the unborn.
9:50 So I'm really, really enjoying that.
9:52 But here's the reason for today's podcast.
9:54 One thing that I've noticed about a lot of people
9:57 that would consider themselves to be pro-life
9:59 is that they are unwilling to engage in a conversation
10:04 with people that are neutral or people that approach choice
10:07 because they feel like they don't have the answers.
10:10 They feel like, gosh, if they bring up this particular topic,
10:15 I'm not gonna know what to say.
10:17 And that's not really sitting well with me.
10:21 'Cause I'll be honest, a few weeks ago,
10:23 or I can't remember exactly when maybe a month,
10:25 a month and a half ago,
10:27 we were doing different things.
10:28 We were teaching different things in our Sunday school, right?
10:30 And so I took the topic of abortion
10:32 and I wanted to talk to our Sunday school about it.
10:34 And you could tell that the attendance for that morning,
10:37 they kind of warn these people like,
10:39 hey, two weeks from now, Kyle's gonna be talking about abortion.
10:41 Okay, next week, Kyle's gonna be talking about abortion
10:43 and wouldn't you know it is very low attendance for that week
10:45 because it's a very tough subject for a lot of people.
10:48 But the thing that I noticed whenever I got to this group
10:51 is these are well-meaning pro-life individuals
10:55 that love babies and love the moms and love Jesus
10:58 and all these things.
10:59 And I don't think you could really question any of that.
11:01 But these people were completely catatonic
11:05 when it came to being able to make an argument
11:07 or being able to actually put words
11:09 to why they believe the way that they believe.
11:11 And so we had a really long discussion.
11:13 You know, it got emotional different points
11:14 for some people in there.
11:15 But the biggest impact I think that that lesson
11:19 that I was able to help teach in our Sunday school
11:21 was I gave in Sunday school, I only did 13,
11:25 but I gave them ways to answer pro-abortion arguments.
11:28 And so in this podcast episode,
11:30 I'm gonna do a little bit of that.
11:31 I added a little bit of extra just for you guys,
11:33 but we're gonna be answering 17 pro-abortion arguments.
11:37 And now just kind of give you an idea
11:39 of how this is gonna flow one through 17.
11:41 This isn't rank ordering.
11:43 You know, here's the ones that you're gonna get most often.
11:44 Here's the pushback that you're gonna get.
11:46 No, this is more of a narrative approach
11:49 because when I've had discussions with people
11:51 about this particular topic,
11:52 it doesn't usually start at the end or in the middle.
11:55 It usually progresses towards a certain level.
11:58 You hear me say all the time on this podcast
11:59 that typically when you're arguing with somebody
12:01 that disagrees with you,
12:02 especially if they happen to be on the political left
12:04 or the atheist left or whatever the thing might be,
12:06 they're constantly moving the goal posts.
12:09 And the thing is, is if you can't deal with that,
12:11 you're gonna have a hard time in that discussion.
12:13 You've gotta be able to have one of those,
12:15 you gotta be able to have the ideas ready in place
12:18 that you kinda know where the conversation is gonna go.
12:21 So I put these in order in this way
12:22 for this to be a reference for you.
12:24 That if you're engaged in an argument like this
12:26 with a coworker or a family member,
12:27 even someone at your church,
12:29 because here's the thing, you would be astonished
12:31 at the pro-choice ideas
12:33 that a lot of people in your church have.
12:36 I'm serious.
12:37 Like I've sat down with people
12:38 and I've heard some of the things they said,
12:39 I'm like, wait a minute, what?
12:41 You believe that?
12:43 So we're gonna get into that right here.
12:44 So we're gonna go ahead and start with the first one
12:47 we're gonna be talking about.
12:48 And how I'm gonna give this to you
12:49 is I'm gonna give you the argument that you would normally get
12:52 and then I'm gonna give you a question
12:54 in order to ask them in response.
12:57 So I'm not gonna be giving you a bunch of statements
12:59 to make back to them.
12:59 Like, ah, here's your gotcha, here's your ace of spades.
13:02 They're gonna give you their argument
13:03 and then your response is gonna be
13:05 in the form of a question.
13:06 You need to put them on their heels.
13:07 They need to defend their position.
13:09 'Cause again, they are not arguing from a moral perch here.
13:12 They are not on a high horse.
13:14 These are people that have a depraved worldview.
13:16 And in order to deal with that,
13:17 you put them on their heels, okay?
13:18 So here's the first argument you're gonna get.
13:20 Men can't have an opinion.
13:22 These new laws are just ways for white men
13:25 to control women's bodies.
13:27 And so in response to that first argument,
13:29 I would say this.
13:31 What about the millions of women that agree with me?
13:34 Because a funny thing is, is like,
13:37 if you don't have a uterus, you can't have an opinion.
13:39 Like, what are you talking about?
13:41 The overwhelming majority of people
13:43 that are in the pro-life side of things.
13:46 They're the ones at the rallies.
13:47 They're the ones at the pregnancy resource centers.
13:49 They're the one in the counseling departments.
13:51 They're women.
13:52 They're literally millions and millions
13:55 and millions of women that are pro-life.
13:58 So when someone brings that up,
13:59 it's such a silly way to start.
14:02 Because they love to point,
14:03 and I think I can't remember what, you know,
14:05 late night talk show this was on,
14:06 but they showed a picture, maybe even been the view,
14:08 but they showed this picture of the Alabama legislature
14:11 that passed this bill into law.
14:13 And if you look at them,
14:14 they were pretty much all white men.
14:16 So it's like, oh, you see, it's a patriarchy
14:19 and it's in sees racist white men
14:21 that are trying to control women's bodies
14:23 and da-da-da and all this other stuff.
14:25 But again, it's a silly argument to make,
14:27 but it's an easy one to field because it's like, okay,
14:29 let's say that we're true.
14:31 Let's let me grant you that,
14:33 that if you're a man,
14:34 you aren't supposed to have an opinion on this.
14:36 So y'all have it out with the millions of women
14:39 that agree with me.
14:40 That's an easy one to get around.
14:43 So the second argument is this,
14:45 my body, my choice, right?
14:48 I got a couple of responses for you.
14:49 So if someone is making the my body, my choice argument,
14:52 you can say something like this.
14:53 And what other domain of society is that true, right?
14:58 And you're gonna hear some of this
14:59 that you may have heard on episode six of this podcast.
15:01 If you wanna go back and listen to that,
15:02 I did another episode on abortion there.
15:05 But in what other domain of society is that true?
15:08 Because I can swing my arms around in a circle
15:11 in an open room and it's no big deal, right?
15:15 But the moment I start swinging my arms around
15:17 and purposely hitting people with them, it's a problem.
15:21 So let's say I swing my arms around
15:23 and I start assaulting people and the police are called
15:25 and they come up and I say, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa."
15:27 My body, my choice, guys.
15:29 I can do whatever I want to with my body.
15:32 Guys, I'm still gonna be taking out handcuffs.
15:33 I mean, that's the reality of it.
15:35 You've seen me say before or something like that.
15:37 If you go take off running down the middle of the interstate
15:39 with no clothes on and you get arrested,
15:42 you can't just be like, "Ah, my body, my choice."
15:44 That's not how that works, right?
15:46 So these people that think that that's some sort of
15:48 a trump card argument, it's silly.
15:51 But another response to my body, my choice,
15:53 is it's not your body, it's in your body, right?
15:58 That's not really framed as a question,
16:00 but yeah, it's not your body.
16:02 It's in your body because again, this is new DNA.
16:07 When the sperm meets the egg and makes the one-celled zygote,
16:10 it's brand new DNA.
16:11 It's not mom and it's not dad.
16:14 'Cause you hear people now saying like,
16:15 "Oh, well, there's DNA in your sperm,
16:17 so can guys not masturbate anymore?"
16:19 Or there's DNA in your fingernails
16:21 so you can't clip your fingernails.
16:22 I don't think anybody is claiming genocide
16:25 if you start clipping your fingernails, guys.
16:26 There's DNA everywhere.
16:28 But you don't get new life from clipping your fingernails.
16:33 You certainly don't get new life from masturbating
16:35 or any of those things, right?
16:37 But again, what's growing inside the woman
16:41 is simply that inside the woman.
16:43 It's not a part of the woman.
16:46 Now, the life inside of her is sustained by her body,
16:49 but the same can be said for born humans.
16:53 You have to use your bodies to sustain life for them.
16:55 You have to use your bodies to work, to make money
16:58 in order to be able to buy food, to sustain that life.
17:02 So again, I've said something like this before.
17:04 If I stick my finger up your nose
17:05 or in your ear or something like that,
17:07 I'm in your body, I'm not part of your body.
17:09 You don't all of a sudden get to make decisions
17:12 as to whether or not I can live
17:13 just because I'm inside your body.
17:15 It is a completely separate being.
17:18 It's just inside the woman.
17:20 So now let's go to the third argument.
17:23 The third argument is this, is it's not a life.
17:26 It's a potential life.
17:28 It's just a clump of sales, okay?
17:31 So I got a few responses to this.
17:34 So one response would be, what do you mean by potential life?
17:38 'Cause one thing that's really important for you to do
17:40 is when you're in a discussion like this
17:41 with somebody is you have to define terms.
17:44 'Cause if you start arguing about potential life
17:46 and they've got a different definition,
17:47 you're gonna be on two separate sheets of music
17:49 and it's gonna be hard for you to get back on the same page,
17:51 okay?
17:52 Just ask them, what do you mean by potential life?
17:55 Just get an idea from them as to what potential life is.
17:58 And so the other part of that is you could just say,
18:02 you know, well, you're a potential life.
18:04 Like there's no guarantee that you're going to be living
18:09 tomorrow, so you're still potential life.
18:12 And if they don't like that, another response you could
18:15 throw at them is, would it be fair to say
18:17 that you are just a clump of sales?
18:19 'Cause again, these people are trying to make this
18:22 declaration that what's growing inside of the woman
18:24 is basically like a polyp or something like that.
18:27 But we're all technically clumps of sales.
18:30 We constantly have sales that are splitting off
18:33 and dying and regenerating and all these different things,
18:35 but it would be fair to say that we are a clump of sales.
18:39 So you should get them to admit that.
18:42 But the big question here that most of the people
18:45 on that side of the argument can't answer is this,
18:48 when is it a human life then?
18:50 When is it alive?
18:53 When is it valuable?
18:55 And then you just get to watch them stumble
18:58 all over themselves, right?
19:00 Because they have a hard time defining that,
19:04 which leads to argument number four.
19:06 They'll say something like this.
19:08 It may be a human, but it's not a person.
19:13 Which the response would immediately become,
19:15 when is it a person then?
19:17 Because the thing about the political left is
19:20 they've attempted to separate humanness and personhood.
19:24 And this is kind of a new thing actually,
19:26 because they're starting to realize
19:28 that they're losing the scientific argument.
19:31 'Cause dumb dums back in the 70s,
19:32 70s actually believed that in the first trimester
19:36 that that wasn't really human.
19:37 They were really sure what it was,
19:38 but yeah, it wasn't really a baby, right?
19:41 They didn't have that idea,
19:42 but we don't have those excuses anymore.
19:44 Like there's way too much evidence to the contrary.
19:46 So have the person defined, when is it a person?
19:49 They're gonna have a really hard time doing that.
19:53 Because the left, they loved it,
19:55 kind of twist themselves up into knots.
19:57 I mean, just like right now,
19:57 they're trying to separate biological sex and gender, right?
20:01 That's the whole transgender debate thing.
20:02 They're trying to separate those two things,
20:04 and they're having a really hard time doing it.
20:07 Maybe because it's antithetical and anti-science.
20:11 But again, you have to put them on their heels.
20:12 When is it a person then?
20:14 When is it a person?
20:16 So one of the responses you might get,
20:20 and this is actually argument number five
20:21 that you're gonna get from these pro-abortion people,
20:24 is it's not a person until it's sentient.
20:27 So for those of you who are sentience,
20:30 maybe a new word, that's essentially the ability
20:32 to perceive your environment, right?
20:34 So using your sensory organs,
20:36 and so that could be like suffering or pain
20:38 or pleasure or comfort or basically,
20:42 yeah, that's just pretty much it.
20:43 That's what sentience is,
20:44 your ability to experience the world around you
20:47 and understand what you're experiencing.
20:49 So a response to that would be,
20:51 is if you're in a coma from which you might awake,
20:54 "Can I murder you?"
20:56 That's the Ben Shapiro argument, right?
20:58 Because if you're in a coma, you are not sentient.
21:00 Technically, if you're asleep, you're not sentient.
21:03 So if your wife or the person
21:05 whoever you're talking to, if they were in a coma,
21:07 just ask them, would you be angry?
21:09 If I walked into the hotel room
21:11 and shot them in the head, would that be a problem?
21:14 Because again, sentience confers personhood,
21:18 if someone makes that argument, right?
21:20 'Cause another response you could give them
21:23 is if you're someone with a mental handicap,
21:26 could I murder you?
21:27 If someone in your family had a mental handicap
21:30 where sentience was in question,
21:32 "Can I murder that person without any issues?"
21:35 Is my conscience clear?
21:37 Am I morally okay?
21:38 Am I lawfully okay?
21:40 So again, if somebody is going to say sentience
21:44 is the part when a person begins,
21:46 they've got to be able to defend that for adults.
21:48 They have to.
21:49 So argument number six that you're gonna get
21:52 from these individuals will be something like this.
21:54 It's not a person until it's viable, right?
21:58 So maybe they won't make this sentience argument.
22:00 It's not a person until it's viable.
22:02 This one's really easy to respond to.
22:04 Just say something like this.
22:05 Is a newborn viable?
22:08 And you should be expecting them
22:11 to look back at you like you're insane.
22:13 But here's the thing.
22:14 If you have a three month old baby
22:16 and you leave them in the middle of the floor
22:20 and you and your spouse leave,
22:22 and you never come back, that baby's dead.
22:25 I mean, there's no two ways about it.
22:29 And some people might argue,
22:30 "Well, what if somebody like your neighbor
22:32 "like knocked on the door and saw the baby
22:33 "and went in and helped it?"
22:34 Okay, yeah, you're making the point for me.
22:37 You have to have another human being intercede
22:40 because the baby cannot sustain itself.
22:42 Thus, it's not viable.
22:44 I mean, a two year old's not viable.
22:47 Four year old might not be viable, right?
22:49 So it's not a person until it's viable.
22:52 Well, are babies viable?
22:55 The answer's no.
22:55 Another response to that same question
22:58 is if you're on life support of some kind,
23:01 can I murder you?
23:03 Right, you're kind of making these extreme examples
23:06 to put it in their head.
23:07 But if you're on life support,
23:08 you have a machine keeping you alive.
23:10 You are not viable.
23:11 You're having to be kept alive
23:14 by something else that is outside of you.
23:16 If you're in surgery, right?
23:19 And there's a machine keeping your heart going
23:21 during surgery and something were to happen to you.
23:24 Is it a tragedy at that point?
23:26 If someone comes in and murders you,
23:28 is that actually murder?
23:29 Is that just somebody performing a procedure at that point?
23:33 So that's an easy way to respond to the,
23:35 it's not a person until it's viable argument.
23:38 And then we get into number seven,
23:40 which is not a person until it's born.
23:43 It's not a person until it's born.
23:46 At which point you say something like this,
23:48 does the vaginal canal confer personhood?
23:51 It's a fair question because pre-vaginal canal,
23:58 or if you get a C-section while it's still in the stomach,
24:01 you know, what is it?
24:04 Because on the other side of the vagina, right?
24:07 It's a person, right?
24:09 Now it's a person.
24:10 Now it's worth our protection.
24:12 If you were to shoot a baby that just came right out
24:14 of the vagina, you shot it in the head problem.
24:16 You're probably going to jail forever for that.
24:19 But you got to ask them this as well.
24:21 If they say it's not a person until it's born,
24:24 what is it when it's still inside the body then?
24:26 Like what's in there?
24:29 Like, are we just like guessing?
24:32 Could it come out as like, you know, like a zebra
24:35 or a ficus or a Volkswagen?
24:37 Like what's it going to be?
24:39 If it's not a baby, if it's not a human, then what is it?
24:42 And that's the thing guys,
24:44 especially for arguments four through seven.
24:46 So that's, it may not be a human, but it's not a person.
24:50 It's not a person until it's sentient.
24:52 It's not a person until it's viable.
24:53 It's not a person until it's born.
24:55 You have to apply those same standards to humans of any age.
25:02 So if you want to apply those standards
25:04 to a baby in the womb, you have to apply it to adults.
25:07 You have to, that's basically how it goes.
25:11 'Cause if you're an adult and you're not viable,
25:13 we shouldn't be able to protect you according to their logic.
25:16 If you're an adult and you're not sentient
25:17 or even a baby and you're not sentient or whatever,
25:19 you should be able to be killed without any repercussions.
25:23 Right?
25:24 So, and then what are the things that are about this
25:26 when people say, you know, it's human, but it's not a person.
25:29 Sounds like a tootsie argument or like what was going on
25:34 during Rwanda and you have Nazi Germany
25:36 and what Pol Pot was doing in Cambodia
25:38 and all these different places, it's like,
25:40 you're getting some of these same arguments.
25:41 Like these aren't actually people, right?
25:45 Like just think about that for a little bit.
25:47 So that's kind of the first half or so
25:49 and then you start getting into some of their more
25:51 desperate arguments.
25:53 So let's get into argument number eight.
25:55 Do you think that you can just force women to reproduce?
25:59 You might get that one.
25:59 That one's kind of funny actually.
26:01 Because it's like, well, I'll just go ahead
26:03 and say what your response should be.
26:04 The response should be something like this.
26:06 Is are you aware that reproduction happens at conception
26:10 and not at birth?
26:11 Because again, no one should be forced to reproduce.
26:15 Like again, like if you're being forced to reproduce,
26:19 that's called rape, right?
26:20 And it's without your consent and that's horrible
26:22 for a myriad of other reasons.
26:24 And we'll talk more about that here in just a second.
26:26 But that's not where reproduction happens.
26:29 It doesn't happen at birth.
26:30 It happens when you conceive.
26:32 So after you've conceived,
26:34 everything after that is ending of a human life
26:37 up until the point of birth, correct?
26:39 So argument number eight is easy to deal with.
26:42 So let's do argument number nine.
26:44 What if the mother's life or health is at risk?
26:47 So if you start getting this question,
26:50 you know you're starting to win a little bit.
26:53 You know they're kind of turning
26:54 into some of the more desperate sides of the argument,
26:57 but to be fair, there are still people
27:00 that would ask this question that are trying to be fair.
27:02 So I want to be fair as well.
27:04 So if they say what if the mother's life
27:06 or health is at risk, you say this.
27:09 Are you aware that abortion is never medically necessary
27:14 to save the life of the mother?
27:16 At which point even your pro-life friends
27:20 are going to look at you like, oh my gosh,
27:22 did he just say that?
27:24 But that's the truth.
27:25 Abortion is never medically necessary
27:29 to save the life of the mother.
27:32 So if that sounds a little bit off to you,
27:34 it's probably because you haven't heard something
27:35 called the Dublin Declaration, okay?
27:38 So I just want to read the Dublin Declaration
27:40 to you here really quick.
27:42 It's just a few sentences, but I just want to read it
27:44 to you here because it'll make more sense here in a second.
27:46 As experienced practitioners and researchers
27:48 in obstetrics and gynecology,
27:50 we affirm that direct abortion,
27:52 the purposeful destruction of an unborn child
27:55 is not medically necessary to save the life of a woman.
27:59 We uphold that there is a fundamental difference
28:01 between abortion and necessary medical treatments
28:04 that are carried out to save the life of the mother,
28:07 even if such treatment results in the loss of life
28:10 of her unborn child.
28:11 We confirm that the prohibition of abortion
28:13 does not affect in any way the availability
28:17 of optimal care to pregnant women.
28:20 So these are people that know way more than you
28:23 and way more than me about what it actually takes
28:26 to keep a woman and/or a baby alive
28:28 during the process of birth or at any point
28:30 during the pregnancy.
28:32 But you do not have to kill baby.
28:36 You just don't.
28:38 So you heard this a lot whenever the New York bill
28:40 was passed about late-term abortions,
28:41 how egregious that was, and people were always like,
28:44 oh, so if a woman's eight months pregnant
28:46 and if she gives birth to the baby
28:48 or keeps the pregnancy, that she'll die.
28:51 It's a definitive thing that she will die.
28:53 Then you would be okay with that,
28:55 Mr. or Mrs. Pro life.
28:57 But here's the thing, is if you're in the third trimester,
29:01 you don't have to abort the baby
29:04 in order to save your life.
29:05 You just deliver it.
29:07 The pregnancy can end without the baby being killed.
29:12 That's why when people use these euphemisms with abortion
29:15 and say, oh, it's just the ending of a pregnancy.
29:17 Birth is the ending of a pregnancy.
29:19 You dope?
29:20 Like it's, what are you talking about?
29:23 But then you get a lot of the same responses.
29:25 Well, what if the mother has cancer
29:27 and she needs to undergo radiation
29:28 and the area that's affected by the cancer
29:31 is in her abdomen?
29:33 Well, we've seen stuff before where the womb
29:35 has actually been removed from the belly
29:37 of a pregnant woman so that she could undergo
29:39 a medical procedure and the womb is then put back
29:42 and she is sewed up and the pregnancy continues.
29:44 We've seen that before.
29:46 But here's the thing, guys,
29:48 is if a woman has cancer and she's pregnant
29:52 and she has to have radiation in order to save her life
29:55 and because of the radiation treatment,
29:58 the baby dies and she miscarries
30:01 or still bursts or something like that.
30:02 That's not an abortion.
30:04 That's not an abortion.
30:06 Like you understand the difference.
30:10 The point of the procedure was not to kill baby.
30:13 It was to preserve the life of the mother.
30:16 And if the baby happens to die,
30:18 that is a very unfortunate side effect.
30:21 But there are some that are even more specific, right?
30:24 So one is one that you've probably not really heard of,
30:26 but it's Coriomneonitis.
30:29 Coriomneonitis.
30:30 So this is an infection of the membrane
30:33 that's basically surrounding the fetus.
30:35 It is incredibly, incredibly dangerous for baby and for mom.
30:39 So at that point, if mom has Coriomneonitis,
30:43 you induce birth.
30:45 The overwhelming likelihood is that baby will not survive,
30:48 but it is not an abortion.
30:51 It's just not.
30:51 Again, you're trying to preserve life.
30:55 There's a chance you will preserve too.
30:57 There's a chance that you will be over to.
31:00 There's a chance you'll be one in one,
31:01 but you're trying to preserve life.
31:03 And the big one that people ask about
31:05 is what about tubular or ectopic pregnancy?
31:08 So that's basically where the baby doesn't nest
31:12 in the right place, it nests in the fallopian tube
31:16 or something like that,
31:17 thus giving you an ectopic pregnancy.
31:18 Again, very, very dangerous for mom.
31:20 A lot of times in order to deal with an ectopic pregnancy,
31:22 they actually have to remove the fallopian tube.
31:26 So when you remove the fallopian tube,
31:28 again, that is not an abortion.
31:30 That is a medical procedure that is meant
31:33 to protect the life of mom.
31:34 Because in most of the instances
31:37 where mom's life is at risk,
31:40 which is an incredibly small percentage
31:42 of the reasons given for abortion,
31:44 incredibly small percentage,
31:45 in most of those cases, you can just deliver.
31:49 We've seen babies survive at, I think, 18, 19 weeks
31:53 being that premature.
31:55 They're surviving and thriving years and years later.
31:58 So again, don't get caught up in that.
32:01 Don't get caught up in the emotionality
32:02 of the argument of, oh, well,
32:04 the mother's life's at risk and her life's more valuable
32:07 and we don't even know if this baby's gonna be born alive
32:09 and blah, blah, and all those things.
32:11 It doesn't even matter.
32:12 Again, if you're in your third trimester
32:13 and you have a major medical issue
32:15 that makes it hard for you to survive
32:18 if baby stays in there, just deliver baby.
32:20 It's that simple.
32:21 So argument number 10 is this.
32:24 What about rape and incest?
32:27 And here's the thing, guys,
32:28 before I get into any of the responses there,
32:30 if they ask you this question,
32:32 just kind of sit back and relax
32:34 'cause you know you've won the argument.
32:36 'Cause if they go to this, they're done for.
32:39 And this is why.
32:40 Because of the listed reasons for abortion in the United States.
32:45 So if we're combining all the abortions
32:47 that happen because of rape and incest on an annualized basis,
32:50 it's less than one half of 1% of all abortions in the US.
32:54 There's varying statistics, but it's less than 1%.
32:59 We can all pretty much agree on that,
33:01 but it's even smaller than that.
33:02 I've seen as low as 0.33% of all abortions
33:05 are because of rape and incest.
33:08 And just, again, before we get into the responses,
33:11 let me go ahead and list off for you.
33:13 The top six reasons listed for abortion in the United States.
33:17 Get ready to get real angry, right?
33:19 The top six reasons, and these account
33:21 for the overwhelming majority
33:23 of all the abortions in the United States.
33:25 Here we go, in order.
33:26 Number one, not ready for a child or another child,
33:30 or the timing is wrong.
33:32 Number two, they can't afford a baby right now.
33:35 Number three, they haven't completed their childbearing,
33:38 or they, sorry, they have completed their childbearing.
33:41 They have other depending children's, other dependents,
33:44 or their children are already grown.
33:45 They don't want to kind of go through the baby process again.
33:47 That's number three.
33:48 Number four, they don't want to be a single mother,
33:51 or they're currently having relationship problems.
33:54 Number five, they don't feel mature enough
33:56 to raise a child or another child.
33:58 They just feel too young.
34:00 And number six, this would interfere
34:02 with their educational or career plans.
34:05 If you're wondering where I got this from,
34:07 I got this from the Guttmacher Institute,
34:09 which is not a fan of the pro-life side of things
34:12 before any of y'all at me.
34:13 But those six things that we have there
34:17 can be categorized in one word, convenience.
34:21 It's very inconvenient that I am pregnant right now.
34:26 This is so very inconvenient for me.
34:28 Again, it's not rape and incest.
34:31 It's not my life's on the line.
34:34 And so I just, no, I don't really feel like it.
34:36 It's going to be hard.
34:37 I don't know if I have the money.
34:38 I've already got kids.
34:39 I don't want any more, right?
34:41 So when people talk about how hard it is
34:44 for these women to decide to have an abortion, really?
34:47 They're choosing between their educations,
34:50 being interfered with, and the life of a human?
34:53 Sorry, I don't feel bad for them, okay?
34:55 But let's get back to the question at hand,
34:57 which is the argument, what about rape and incest?
34:59 What about rape and incest?
35:01 Here's a response, are you willing to concede
35:04 that all other abortions are immoral?
35:07 Again, this is another Ben Shapiro argument,
35:08 'cause when someone brings up rape and incest,
35:11 which is the exception of all the exceptions,
35:13 with less than 1%, less than 1/2 of 1% of all cases,
35:17 you have to get the other person to define
35:19 whether they think other abortions are wrong as well.
35:22 Because the overwhelming majority of the time,
35:25 they will not concede that point to you.
35:27 They just won't.
35:28 They don't think abortion is wrong,
35:30 but they're losing the argument.
35:32 So they have to throw a Hail Mary.
35:35 And the Hail Mary is that.
35:37 What about rape and incest?
35:38 But they're not willing to concede that.
35:41 So another thing that you should ask them is this,
35:44 and this kills the rape and incest argument.
35:47 And it says, should innocent children be able
35:50 to get the death penalty for the crimes of their fathers?
35:54 I'll say that again.
35:57 Should innocent children be able to get the death penalty
36:00 for the crimes of their fathers?
36:01 Because that's exactly what you're doing.
36:03 When you execute a child in the womb,
36:06 that's exactly what you're getting.
36:10 Because here's the thing.
36:12 There are cases where the men that,
36:16 I mean, these rapists, they literally love abortion.
36:19 Because if you discard of the fetus,
36:22 after it's aborted, if you discard of it,
36:24 there's no DNA evidence left of the crime.
36:26 So that person can't go down with DNA evidence
36:31 because you've gotten rid of all the evidence, right?
36:33 There are other ways that you can be caught,
36:35 but you just made it a lot easier for the rapist.
36:38 But think about it in practical terms.
36:40 Think about all you guys out there
36:41 whose fathers are still living.
36:44 What if your father could commit a very particular crime
36:47 that would have the outcome of you dying?
36:50 Wouldn't that be a little bit unfair?
36:54 'Cause that's exactly what we're saying in this situation.
36:56 Okay?
36:57 But here's the thing.
36:59 Before anyone starts to get crazy and think
37:01 that I've kind of lost what I'm going with here.
37:04 I'm not saying that these women are going through
37:07 something that's insanely unbelievably difficult.
37:11 They've had a tremendous evil done against them.
37:14 And I truly, truly have a lot of empathy for them.
37:18 I'm very sympathetic to the things
37:20 that they're gonna have to go through.
37:22 But killing the baby doesn't get rid of the rape.
37:25 It doesn't punish the rape.
37:29 It literally punishes an innocent third party.
37:32 That is not mom and that is not dad.
37:34 Because there's another response here to this.
37:38 Is our humans born out of rape less human
37:41 than those not born out of rape?
37:43 Because there's a lot of babies alive today.
37:47 Go on Twitter, you'll find them and go on Instagram.
37:50 These are babies that were conceived in rape
37:52 that are alive today, that are in college
37:55 and playing sports and they've got jobs
37:57 and they're contributing to society.
37:58 They have their own families.
38:00 Their mothers love them.
38:02 Their mothers' families love them.
38:05 And so when you say that if a woman's been raped
38:10 and if she's been raped by a family member
38:12 that having the baby is a net negative in every situation,
38:16 it is to call those people that are currently alive
38:18 less than human or less human than you
38:21 'cause you aren't conceived in rape.
38:22 So again, if they throw that argument at you,
38:26 you've got to stay on your ground.
38:27 You have to ask them the question,
38:29 should innocent children be able to get the death penalty
38:31 for the crimes of their fathers?
38:33 Just see what they do.
38:35 'Cause again, I've sat across from people
38:37 and I've said, no, women that have been raped,
38:40 even if they've been raped by a family member,
38:41 should not be able to kill the baby inside them.
38:43 And I've seen them look at me with sheer disgust and anger.
38:47 But I don't care what they think about it.
38:50 I care about the lives of the unborn, okay?
38:53 Which leads exactly into argument number 11, which is this.
38:57 Pro-lifers only care about the baby before it's born.
39:01 That's another one.
39:03 Again, they've kind of lost on every other front
39:04 at this point, so now they're just throwing up
39:06 Hail Mary's all over the place, right?
39:08 You just ask 'em this, if that were true,
39:10 then why are there more pregnancy resource centers
39:13 than abortion clinics?
39:14 Because that's the truth.
39:18 There are literally only a few hundred abortion clinics
39:21 in the entirety of the United States.
39:22 These are clinics that mainly do abortion.
39:24 They're basically just there to provide abortion.
39:27 There are literally thousands and thousands
39:30 of pregnancy resource centers and emergency pregnancy centers
39:34 and post birth, you know,
39:37 women's health and health centers, right?
39:40 That are just for these types of crisis pregnancies,
39:43 as they're called, right?
39:45 And here's the thing.
39:46 The overwhelming majority of those are ran
39:48 by right-wing pro-life conservative Christians.
39:53 I had a guy, he's a friend of mine.
39:55 He lives in Philadelphia.
39:56 He posted a George Carlin quote from a long time ago,
39:59 basically coming at conservatives saying,
40:01 "Ah, yeah, you don't want us to be able to kill the babies."
40:04 But, you know, after they're born,
40:05 you just don't care about 'em.
40:06 Because what they're doing is they're conflating
40:09 the conservative viewpoint that we shouldn't raise taxes
40:11 in every scenario and that there should at least be
40:14 some standards around welfare and around certain,
40:18 you know, nanny state type programs,
40:19 that that somehow means that we don't care about people.
40:22 No, it's that we know the value of a dollar
40:24 and if you don't have a dollar to spend
40:26 and you spend $3, you're in the hole.
40:29 We also know that there's certain people
40:30 that are gaming the system and we're trying to get
40:32 those people out of the system so that we can actually
40:34 help the people that cannot help themselves.
40:36 That is the entire point of welfare.
40:39 But when someone says that pro-lifers don't care
40:40 about the baby after they're born, it's ignorant.
40:43 It's an ignorant argument and you gotta call it out.
40:45 All right, so argument number 12 is this.
40:47 Have you adopted any of these children,
40:50 any of these unwanted children?
40:51 If not, you can't have a say.
40:54 So the response would be this.
40:56 Is it possible to have never adopted a child
41:00 while simultaneously being able to have the opinion
41:03 that innocent people shouldn't be murdered?
41:05 I mean, it's just a dumb argument.
41:09 So if you've never given money or food to a homeless person,
41:12 does that mean you hate homeless people?
41:13 Does that mean that we shouldn't fund homeless programs?
41:16 If you've never adopted a dog,
41:18 does that mean your pro-animal cruelty?
41:21 Like it's just absurd because here's the thing
41:23 is there's literally no way possible
41:26 that every single person that is in trouble,
41:28 including an orphan child or an unwanted child,
41:31 can be adopted by everybody or be cared for by everybody.
41:35 There's just not enough means in the world
41:37 for the most part to be able to do something like that.
41:39 There's just not enough capability.
41:40 And there's a lot of people that would take on
41:43 a crisis pregnancy and take the child
41:45 that they just can't.
41:46 They physically can't, they financially can't.
41:49 But at the same time, there's a lot of people
41:52 on the pro-life side that are lining up to adopt these kids.
41:55 It's not the pro-choicers.
41:56 If somebody is deciding between abortion and not abortion
42:01 and they decide to not have an abortion
42:02 and instead put the baby up for adoption,
42:04 there's not a whole lot of pro-abortion people out there
42:06 that are waiting for that baby.
42:07 It's pro-life people.
42:09 There's examples, anecdotal stories.
42:11 I will admit that all over the place
42:13 of someone's in a crisis pregnancy
42:15 and someone maybe puts it out online
42:17 and then you have a line of strangers
42:20 that'll say, "I will take your baby."
42:22 You have people that are praying
42:24 outside of Planned Parenthood clinics
42:25 and they're saying, "Look, look, look,
42:27 just come over and talk to us
42:28 "because if you give birth to this baby,
42:30 "we will take this baby if you don't want it.
42:32 "We will take it. We will adopt it.
42:34 "We are strangers. We will adopt this baby."
42:37 That's the pro-life side of things.
42:39 So if someone's like, "Oh, well, you haven't adopted any,
42:41 "what have you done lately?"
42:43 Now, I will say this, the one fair thing is
42:45 is if you're sitting there having an argument with somebody
42:47 and you've done nothing to support a crisis pregnancies
42:51 or these mothers or these babies
42:53 or any anti-abortion lobbies or things like that,
42:56 maybe that's an issue for you.
42:57 Maybe you need to get in the game a little bit more, okay?
43:00 So argument number 13 is this.
43:03 Even if the unwanted baby is taken to term and born,
43:06 there wouldn't be a family available to adopt them, okay?
43:10 And the response here would just be,
43:11 "Are you familiar with any statistical trends
43:13 "with adoption in the United States?"
43:16 Because here's the thing, and I'm not gonna go on a diatribe
43:18 about adoption, but adoption is a very complicated thing
43:21 in the United States.
43:22 The hoops that you have to jump through
43:23 in order to adopt a child in a lot of cases
43:26 are unnecessarily crazy.
43:28 It's like way too much of an expectation
43:30 on a lot of these families to be able to do these things.
43:33 But at the same time, there are plenty
43:34 of adoptive families available.
43:36 I go into more detail on that in episode six
43:38 of this podcast, so I would just urge you
43:39 to go back and listen to that one.
43:41 So argument number 14 is this.
43:43 Abortion helps the economy.
43:46 Yes, this is actually a thing that people have said, right?
43:49 That abortion, it's just better
43:51 if we don't have more mouths to feed inside of the economy, okay?
43:55 So here's how you respond to that one.
43:57 Are you saying that murder is okay
43:59 as long as it's for economic reasons?
44:02 Because here's the thing, let's take a family of five.
44:06 Let's say you've got a single mother of five, right?
44:08 So dad's gone, dad's a deadbeat, right?
44:11 So the woman is doing all she can.
44:13 She's working two jobs, she's paying for babysitter,
44:15 she's got all these different things.
44:17 And if she could just get rid of two of her babies,
44:20 then her situation would be much better.
44:23 It would really help the personal economy of her household.
44:26 Would that be okay?
44:28 If she just drowned a couple of her kids?
44:31 Through a couple of her kids off her bridge.
44:33 Would that be okay?
44:35 I don't think they'd be okay with that, right?
44:40 But here's another one.
44:41 This is kind of gonna punch them directly in the face.
44:43 So you gotta really have some stones
44:44 if you're gonna throw this back at them.
44:45 But if they say abortion helps the economy,
44:47 your response should be,
44:48 are you aware that proponents of slavery
44:50 use the same argument that you're using?
44:52 You can actually use that in a lot of different ways,
44:55 because again, we said that black slaves in the United States,
44:58 a lot of people said, oh, well, they're not really people, right?
45:01 You know, that's why the Dred Scott decision was, you know,
45:04 one of the two worst decisions in the history of the Supreme Court,
45:06 the other being Roe v. Wade,
45:08 because they basically would not allow people to be called people.
45:11 And that's exactly what these slavers did in the South.
45:15 They said, wait a minute, wait a minute,
45:16 if you take away our ability to have slaves,
45:18 it'll affect the South, it'll affect our state,
45:21 it'll affect my personal wealth,
45:22 it'll affect all those things.
45:25 Yeah, yeah, it will.
45:27 Who cares?
45:28 Because what you're doing is evil.
45:30 What you're doing is wrong, it's immoral.
45:32 So we're not gonna stand for that, right?
45:34 So why was it okay to not stand for it back then?
45:37 But it's a problem if you don't want to stand for it now.
45:40 You have to ask them that.
45:41 All right, guys, few more arguments here.
45:43 Argument number 15, you say that you're pro-death penalty.
45:46 That means you can't be pro-life.
45:49 So this is kind of a new one.
45:51 This is also kind of like a Hail Mary
45:53 that you'll get from some of these people.
45:55 But the response that you get is,
45:56 are you comparing unborn humans to born humans
46:01 that have murdered other born humans?
46:03 Because that's what they're doing.
46:06 If they're saying, oh, well, your pro-death penalty,
46:08 you can't be pro-life, I'm talking about criminals.
46:11 'Cause if you get the death penalty,
46:12 you don't get that for stealing a pack of gum, right?
46:16 That's almost 100% of the time
46:18 because you took another person's life.
46:21 And it was premeditated.
46:23 That's another thing that will get you capital murder.
46:26 Because here we can actually go to the Bible a little bit
46:28 because God, to Noah in Genesis nine, he said this,
46:31 whoever shed the blood of man
46:33 by man shall his blood be shed
46:34 for God made man in his own image.
46:36 So basically, if you shed the blood of someone
46:39 who has the Amago day, if you're murdering that person,
46:41 you have lost your right to life.
46:44 And in Exodus two, God says this to Moses,
46:46 whoever strikes a man so that he dies,
46:48 shall be put to death.
46:50 And again, that's not like, oh,
46:51 that's not talking about self-defense.
46:53 That's not talking about war.
46:54 That's not talking about any of those things.
46:56 It's not manslaughter.
46:57 It's talking about the act of murder.
46:59 But the thing about it is,
47:00 is you really got to put them on their heels.
47:02 Again, you're feeling like you're being questioned by them
47:05 and they feel like they're in control
47:06 if they're asking questions.
47:07 You have to put them back on their heels.
47:08 Are you comparing unborn humans to born humans
47:10 that have murdered other born humans?
47:13 Because I'm one of those people
47:14 that thinks if you rape someone else
47:16 that you should also get the death penalty for that.
47:18 But again, that doesn't really happen here in the United States.
47:20 But again, they've got to have an answer for that.
47:23 'Cause yes, I am pro-death penalty.
47:26 I think it is a deterrent.
47:27 It's clearly a deterrent.
47:28 And at the same time,
47:30 if that person has shown grace and given life in prison,
47:32 okay.
47:33 You know, it's a waste on the tax payer at that point,
47:39 especially if the person is definitely guilty.
47:41 And certainly there have been instances in the United States
47:44 where people that were not guilty were executed
47:46 and that is beyond unfortunate.
47:47 But again, it's just a different situation.
47:50 And so again, you have to put them on their heels.
47:52 Okay, guys, last two arguments here, argument 16.
47:55 Pro-lifers just hate women.
47:57 So of course, yeah, you just hate women,
47:59 especially if you're a white male, Protestant,
48:02 that's pro-life, just get ready.
48:03 Like everyone's just going to completely diminish you.
48:05 But even if you were, you know, a black, you know, female,
48:09 lesbian or something like that, it just, you know,
48:11 you would still get crap for it.
48:12 It's just going to be worse
48:13 if you're on the other side of the issue.
48:15 But the thing about it is is the way you respond to that is,
48:17 are you in favor of sex-selective abortions?
48:20 At which point they're probably going to look at you again,
48:23 like you're insane, like what do you mean
48:24 am I in favor of sex-selective abortions?
48:26 I'm of course not in favor of that.
48:27 Say, well, there are countries all over the world
48:30 that that's exactly what they do.
48:32 You've seen that in China, you've seen that in India.
48:34 China's, you know, one child program
48:37 that they enacted for a while
48:38 that they've since gotten more relaxed on.
48:40 Sex-selective abortions is just something that you do.
48:43 Oh, well, this is going to be a girl.
48:45 All right, we got to get rid of this thing.
48:48 Like, I don't see any of the first and second wave
48:50 and third wave feminists out in these other countries
48:52 saying that's insane, they should stop it, right?
48:56 Like, they don't understand that the United States
48:58 is basically in the same category as China
49:01 in North Korea in terms of our incredibly liberal,
49:03 quote unquote, progressive abortion laws.
49:06 Europe, a lot of Europe, which people consider
49:08 to be way more progressive than United States
49:11 in a lot of ways that they are,
49:12 they don't even think the way that we do an abortion.
49:14 They look at our abortion law and go,
49:15 "Yeah, that's a little bit sticky."
49:18 But again, this idea that we just hate women,
49:19 it's my extreme love of women in respect for the Amago Day
49:22 that they have, that makes me so passionate about this issue,
49:26 right?
49:27 And that gives us to the last argument here.
49:28 Argument number 17.
49:30 So you only want to demonize women, what about the men?
49:33 Again, I went into this on episode six of the podcast,
49:36 but this would be my response.
49:37 Is are you in favor of shaming men into sticking around?
49:41 Because I am.
49:44 Because people look at shame as,
49:47 "Oh, that's not really a good motivator.
49:48 I'd rather someone be like really inspired
49:50 to do the right thing."
49:51 Okay, well, if that doesn't work,
49:53 shame's another good tactic.
49:55 Because shame is something that works on a kid.
49:58 You shame them into starting to think the right way
50:02 or do the right thing.
50:03 The same can be said for an adult male
50:06 that has gotten a woman knocked up, got her pregnant, right?
50:10 Are you in favor of shaming those men to stick around?
50:12 Because I am.
50:13 Like we've seen this before, I mean,
50:15 the out of wedlock baby having in the United States
50:19 of all classes is insane.
50:21 Fully 77% of black babies born today
50:24 in the United States are born out of wedlock.
50:27 30% of white babies, that's a 10 times increase
50:30 from back in the 60s and 70s
50:32 and half of Hispanic babies are born out of wedlock.
50:35 It's a problem.
50:36 Now, I think that could create some other issues
50:39 if these guys stick around,
50:40 but I think that those are minor issues
50:42 compared to losing the life of the baby, right?
50:46 Just murdering the life that's inside the woman.
50:48 Because there's a lot of things that we can get into guys
50:51 because in argument, you're not really gonna get
50:53 from a pro abortion person,
50:54 is what about the rights of the guy?
50:57 Because this is a really good time to talk about
50:59 what if the woman gets pregnant
51:01 and the guy wants to keep it and the woman doesn't?
51:04 Is it still her body, her choice?
51:07 Because half of the DNA of the being
51:11 that's growing inside of her is the dudes.
51:13 Does he get a say?
51:14 Because here's one thing he can't do.
51:16 Let's say they get pregnant.
51:18 She wants to keep it.
51:19 He wants to get rid of it.
51:20 She has the baby.
51:21 Does he have to pay child support now?
51:25 I mean, honestly, I don't believe in these things.
51:27 I'm just saying this is what a logical person would say.
51:29 Hey, I didn't want this thing.
51:31 Like it was her, it's inside her body.
51:34 It's her body, her choice.
51:34 But hey, it's kind of my body, my choice.
51:36 'Cause I used part of my body to have this baby too, right?
51:39 But she chose to keep it.
51:41 I didn't want to have it.
51:42 So can I just pay her when I would have paid
51:43 for the abortion and can we just call it good from there?
51:46 Like nobody on the planet Earth would sign off on that
51:49 kind of a lot 'cause it's insane.
51:50 It's immoral, it's evil.
51:52 But again, the overall point here, guys,
51:54 is I want you to be able to engage with these arguments.
51:57 So I want this podcast to become a reference for you.
52:00 So if you've got other guys that are in the pro life stable,
52:03 you got other guys in your life,
52:04 you got to share this podcast with them,
52:06 this specific episode.
52:09 Because if you're not willing to engage
52:10 in these arguments, you won't.
52:13 Like if you're confused at how you should ask
52:15 these questions, you won't end up asking them.
52:17 Because here's the thing,
52:18 are there other arguments outside of these 17?
52:21 Of course there are.
52:22 But these are basically how these debates go.
52:26 Whether you're seeing two people to debate it on a stage
52:28 or they're debating it across a, you know,
52:30 the bar top from one another or something like that,
52:33 this is kind of where they all go.
52:35 These are the arguments.
52:36 There is not a pro abortion argument that makes sense
52:40 or is just not evil.
52:42 Like they're so easy to take down,
52:45 we just have to be willing to take them down.
52:48 All right guys, before we let you out of here,
52:49 we're going to do a quick resilience boost.
52:51 As you know, by now, we are a men's ministry
52:53 and our mission is cultivating manly resilience.
52:55 And specifically we do that by providing content
52:57 that for just spiritual, mental and physical toughness.
53:00 So today I want to leave you a few resources.
53:02 First of all, I just want to give you the link to life news.
53:05 That is www.lifenews.com.
53:07 That is where you get the most up-to-date news stories
53:10 about what's happening in the world of abortion.
53:13 And especially folks, there's a lot on American law.
53:15 And so those are great ways for you to kind of keep up
53:18 on how things are going.
53:19 But then I got two articles I want to leave for you
53:21 because these are both coming from a pro-life perspective
53:24 but they're kind of coming at it from different ways.
53:26 One is called pro-lifers have momentum
53:28 but they need to move gradually.
53:29 So this is kind of the gradual moving towards, you know,
53:33 taking bits and pieces away from Roe v. Wade
53:35 and things in the state level
53:37 that can eventually not be overturned or something like that.
53:40 But then the other side is this one,
53:41 Alabama and Georgia are throwing down the gauntlet
53:43 against Roe, good.
53:45 And so that's a guy from National Review.
53:46 He's basically writing saying now's the time,
53:48 let's go for the jugular.
53:49 Like, let's just, let's get everybody on record
53:52 for what they feel about this issue
53:53 'cause there's no more important issue for our time.
53:56 So again, guys, I hope you enjoyed the podcast today
53:58 and really, I really hope this is gonna be a helpful resource
54:00 for you as you engage in these conversations.
54:03 Thanks again for listening to the podcast.
54:04 We really do appreciate it.
54:05 Please subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud or Google Play
54:08 and refer your friends to listen
54:09 and share this on social media.
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54:16 that would be a great thing for you to do.
54:18 Leave us those five stars in a few sentences
54:20 that let us know why you like what we're doing.
54:21 I'm booking speaking engagements for the remainder of 2019
54:24 and the beginning of 2020.
54:26 So if you want me to come speak on your podcast,
54:28 to your men's group, to your conference,
54:30 to your whatever, just hit me up,
54:31 info@undaunted.life.
54:33 Again, the email is info@undaunted.life.
54:35 The website is www.undaunted.life
54:38 and you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter
54:40 @undaunted.life or Facebook.com/undauntedlife.
54:44 Check out our free devotionals on the U version Bible app.
54:46 Just search "undaunted life" under plans.
54:48 And also, we want to thank the band August Burns Red
54:50 for allowing us to use their entire music library
54:53 for our content.
54:54 The Interalto track on this podcast is our song "King of Sorrow,"
54:57 which is off their latest record entitled "Phantom Anthem."
54:59 The links to this are in the description.
55:01 I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
55:03 Remember, keep cultivating manly resilience,
55:06 keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical toughness.
55:10 Keep seeking the Lion of Judah.
55:12 (upbeat music)
55:16 ♪ I can stop going like you ♪
55:21 ♪ There are no ♪
55:24 ♪ No, you're just a night on the day ♪
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Kyle Thompson
There is not a pro-abortion argument that makes sense or is just not evil.
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