0:00
(upbeat music)
0:02
- This is "On Daunted Life, a Man's Podcast."
0:13
I'm your host Kyle Thompson, let's get into it.
0:16
All right, today guys, we are gonna be answering
0:18
17 pro abortion arguments.
0:20
But before we get into that, we need to do
0:22
a little bit of an update, because like I tell you,
0:24
every week, even after I get done recording these episodes,
0:27
it's like something happens.
0:28
Like the day after that episode, that is newsworthy
0:31
in the pro life and/or pro choice world.
0:34
So just gonna be a little bit of a basic rundown
0:36
of things that we've seen here recently.
0:38
We've had Bernie Sanders and Kirsch and Gillibrand,
0:40
they're both running for the Democratic nomination
0:42
for a president in 2020.
0:45
They both came out, this was actually today,
0:46
I'm recording this on the 20th of May,
0:48
they want a national law legalizing abortions up to birth.
0:53
So essentially what they wanna do is they wanna take
0:55
the law, the unbelievably barbaric law that was approved
0:59
and passed in the state of New York,
1:00
and they want that to become a national law.
1:02
Now some of you might be saying to yourselves,
1:04
well isn't Roe v. Wade, isn't that a national law?
1:07
Don't have time to get into why that's not law,
1:09
it's just a decision made by the Supreme Court,
1:11
it didn't actually make law,
1:13
but they basically went out of their way to say
1:14
that they want that to be legalized across the country.
1:17
And not to be outdone, Elizabeth Warren,
1:19
who is also going to be running for president
1:21
is she's in the process of running for president
1:23
for the Democratic nomination.
1:25
She actually announced a plan to legalize abortions
1:28
up to birth, making it a national law.
1:30
She's got her own plan.
1:32
So Elizabeth Warren, her candidacy is kind of
1:35
dead in the water at this point,
1:37
I mean she's gonna have to really see
1:38
an unbelievable turnaround at this point,
1:40
she's kind of been embarrassed,
1:41
and she's not really hitting it off
1:43
with a lot of the other people.
1:45
But what she's doing is she's coming out
1:46
with these very grandiose and very ridiculous plans
1:48
to do these unbelievable things.
1:50
And so this is one of her attempts in order to do that.
1:53
We also see another Democratic presidential nominee,
1:56
Pete Buttigieg.
1:58
He is the supposedly Christian governor of South Bend
2:02
in the Indiana mayor, rather of South Bend, Indiana.
2:05
And this guy has been seen by a lot of people
2:07
as a very viable candidate for the Democratic field
2:09
because he's kind of seen as a moderate.
2:11
You know, this guy claims to be a Christian,
2:13
even though he's a married homosexual,
2:15
those types of things.
2:16
But he basically came out this week
2:18
and defended abortions up to the point of birth.
2:20
So again, as I've said before,
2:22
and as we've said previously here on this podcast,
2:24
if you're a Democrat, you are part of the party of death
2:27
because this is a main line platform now.
2:30
This is a main line platform.
2:32
Name me a prominent Democrat who is pro-life.
2:35
I'll wait.
2:37
But then on the 16th of March or 16th of May, rather,
2:41
Missouri came out and their legislature passed a bill
2:43
banning abortions after the baby had a detectable heartbeat.
2:47
So this is another heartbeat bill.
2:49
And the bill was actually passed 24 to 10
2:51
and it is expected to be signed
2:52
by pro-life Republican governor Mike Parson.
2:55
So this came a couple of days on the heels
2:58
of really the big thing that we're gonna be talking about
3:00
here on the early part of this podcast.
3:02
And that was what happened on the 14th of May
3:04
where the Alabama legislature approved a bill
3:07
making killing unborn babies by wave abortion a felony.
3:11
And also it put abortionists,
3:13
it would put abortionists in prison
3:15
for up to a life sentence or 99 years
3:18
for performing the procedure.
3:19
So this is the strictest abortion law
3:22
that has been passed really.
3:23
I mean, we've seen stuff in Louisiana.
3:25
We've seen stuff in Missouri.
3:26
We've seen stuff in Georgia and now this one in Alabama.
3:29
This is the one that has the least amount
3:32
of restrictions to it.
3:33
The bill passed 25 to six.
3:34
Governor Kay Ivey quickly signed the bill into law
3:37
and the bill as it stands right now,
3:39
the law will go into effect within the next six months.
3:42
And the thing about this is the media has been lying
3:45
a lot about what this law says and doesn't say.
3:47
There's been a lot of people in the media
3:49
that are claiming that this law would criminalize
3:51
the act for women that have signed off
3:54
on the murder of their babies.
3:55
But this law does not do that.
3:57
Now we've said before on this podcast
3:59
and I understand this is a very unpopular opinion
4:02
even in pro life circles,
4:03
but I'm of the persuasion that these women
4:05
should be held liable for signing off
4:07
on the murder of their babies.
4:09
Now some people think there's a fine line there they say,
4:11
well, what if a woman miscarries?
4:14
Then what happens there is is she potentially
4:16
going to be liable for that life?
4:18
No, that's not what anyone's saying.
4:20
Like no rational thinker would actually think
4:22
that's what someone like me is saying.
4:24
But if I walk into a store and I go into this section
4:29
and I take a little kid with me and I say,
4:31
Hey, can you please kill this kid?
4:34
I will give you $100 for your services.
4:35
And they go, sure sign here.
4:37
And then they kill the kid.
4:38
I'm liable for that kid.
4:40
I'm liable for that murder, right?
4:42
You've seen this scenario before
4:44
where these mob bosses are gang leaders.
4:45
They actually tell someone else to kill someone else
4:47
and they are also held liable for murder.
4:49
We've seen people that are just driving the car.
4:52
Whenever somebody gets out of the car,
4:53
murder somebody gets back in the car.
4:55
Everyone in the car is charged with murder, right?
4:57
So I don't think it's that crazy to think
4:59
that these women that are actively going in
5:01
and seeking out someone killing the baby
5:03
that's inside of them,
5:04
that these women shouldn't be held liable.
5:05
But again, this law in Alabama does not touch that at all.
5:08
But the big thing that made hay for everybody,
5:10
especially on the left,
5:12
is there there was no exceptions for rape or incest.
5:17
And we'll get more into that argument here in a little bit,
5:20
but that was the big one.
5:21
That was the big one that really twerked off
5:23
the political left or the pro-choice,
5:25
pro-abortion, pro-murder crowd,
5:27
because they just, they couldn't fathom a world
5:29
where a underage girl was raped
5:32
and that baby wasn't murdered because of the rape.
5:35
But again, we'll get in that here in just a second.
5:37
But the Alabama law really has set up a real challenge
5:41
to Roe v. Wade.
5:42
'Cause we know that this law is going to be challenged.
5:45
We know that it's gonna go to an appeals court.
5:47
We know that's gonna go to a federal appeals court.
5:49
And then from there,
5:50
the idea is that it might actually make its way
5:53
to the Supreme Court.
5:55
Now, this is not something that's gonna happen quickly.
5:57
I mean, people are saying at the earliest,
5:59
it could reach the Supreme Court in like two years.
6:02
But what this is doing is this isn't a front
6:05
to the pro-choice lobby.
6:07
This isn't a front to Roe v. Wade.
6:09
And we've had these things happen in a lot of different circles
6:12
and you've seen this in a lot of different states.
6:14
It's kind of the incrementalist approach.
6:16
Like, we're just gonna do things little by little.
6:19
We're gonna do things here or there.
6:20
And of course, the reason why that's an issue
6:23
for a lot of people that are on that side
6:25
is because if for whatever reason Roe v. Wade is overturned,
6:28
it doesn't automatically ban abortion across the nation.
6:31
It just takes the laws back to the states.
6:33
There's no federal mandate saying that abortion is legal.
6:36
And so if you've been doing these incremental approaches
6:38
on your state level,
6:39
and then all of a sudden Roe v. Wade is overturned,
6:41
well, you've got all these allowances
6:42
that allow for abortions to occur in your state
6:45
beyond a certain point or for certain reasons, right?
6:49
But then you have the other side of the issue,
6:50
which basically says that if you're not going to have
6:54
any of these restrictions
6:55
and you're just gonna go right at the heart of the issue,
6:57
are you going to be able to get it done on the federal level?
7:00
And this kind of goes all the way back
7:02
to when we talked about Justice Kavanaugh.
7:04
Now, Kavanaugh was like unbelievably,
7:07
immorally maligned for things that he very, very likely
7:11
didn't do and it was an unbelievable circus.
7:14
But at the same time, I was not a fan of Kavanaugh
7:16
being on the Supreme Court from the beginning.
7:20
Because I never thought that this would be a guy
7:22
that would actually vote to overturn Roe.
7:24
And even just as a conservative,
7:27
there's a lot of things that I think he does
7:29
that are not going to make conservatives happy.
7:31
And so if it actually gets to the Supreme Court right now,
7:34
people think that there's a conservative majority
7:36
of five to four, there's not really that.
7:39
You have four votes that are ardently in support
7:43
of abortion, you've got that right off the bat.
7:46
But you only have three votes that are definitely
7:49
in support of the pro-life agenda against Roe v. Wade, right?
7:53
And then there's two kind of up in the air.
7:56
And one of those is Judge Kavanaugh.
7:58
And so that's where I'm sitting right here.
8:00
Again, it's really hard to judge
8:02
where things are gonna go because this law
8:03
hasn't even officially been challenged yet.
8:05
But I really think that we're gonna have an issue
8:08
if it does ever get to the Supreme Court.
8:10
And to be honest with you, I don't even know
8:12
if the Supreme Court will actually,
8:13
listen, we'll actually hear this case.
8:15
I don't really know that that's gonna happen.
8:17
But I will say this, overall I'm pleased.
8:20
I'm obviously pleased that this is something
8:22
that's happening 'cause I feel like the pro-life lobby
8:25
has finally started to nut up a little bit.
8:29
I feel like the tide is actually turning a little bit.
8:31
I feel like pro-lifers have been polite for way too long.
8:36
And I think they're finally starting to get a backbone.
8:39
And I don't know if it's because they sense
8:41
that their constituents will back them up
8:43
or if they sense that the tide is turning
8:45
or the overall reaction is turning for the nation.
8:48
But the thing about the nation is most Americans
8:51
have been very much against abortion
8:54
after the first trimester, pretty much for decades.
8:57
Like nothing substantive has changed there, right?
9:00
We don't see these outsized changes
9:02
even whenever we get new ultrasounds and 3D ultrasounds.
9:05
We don't really see these outsized changes, right?
9:08
It's been pretty standard.
9:10
But that's the thing that I'm really excited about
9:12
is that more people on the pro-life side
9:15
are willing to engage in conversations with people
9:18
about this topic.
9:19
Even if they know they're gonna take a little bit of crap
9:21
and take a little bit of heat.
9:23
We have more people being ardently pro-life
9:26
because the thing about the pro-choice side
9:28
or really the political left in general,
9:30
they don't really have quiet opinions.
9:32
Most of their opinions are pretty loud.
9:34
They want everyone to know.
9:35
It's part of virtue signaling.
9:36
It's like everybody look over here.
9:38
Look at how woke, look at how progressive
9:40
I'm being at this exact moment.
9:42
And so I see a little bit of that with pro-lifers right now,
9:45
but we have morality on our side.
9:47
Like we're for not murdering the unborn.
9:50
So I'm really, really enjoying that.
9:52
But here's the reason for today's podcast.
9:54
One thing that I've noticed about a lot of people
9:57
that would consider themselves to be pro-life
9:59
is that they are unwilling to engage in a conversation
10:04
with people that are neutral or people that approach choice
10:07
because they feel like they don't have the answers.
10:10
They feel like, gosh, if they bring up this particular topic,
10:15
I'm not gonna know what to say.
10:17
And that's not really sitting well with me.
10:21
'Cause I'll be honest, a few weeks ago,
10:23
or I can't remember exactly when maybe a month,
10:25
a month and a half ago,
10:27
we were doing different things.
10:28
We were teaching different things in our Sunday school, right?
10:30
And so I took the topic of abortion
10:32
and I wanted to talk to our Sunday school about it.
10:34
And you could tell that the attendance for that morning,
10:37
they kind of warn these people like,
10:39
hey, two weeks from now, Kyle's gonna be talking about abortion.
10:41
Okay, next week, Kyle's gonna be talking about abortion
10:43
and wouldn't you know it is very low attendance for that week
10:45
because it's a very tough subject for a lot of people.
10:48
But the thing that I noticed whenever I got to this group
10:51
is these are well-meaning pro-life individuals
10:55
that love babies and love the moms and love Jesus
10:58
and all these things.
10:59
And I don't think you could really question any of that.
11:01
But these people were completely catatonic
11:05
when it came to being able to make an argument
11:07
or being able to actually put words
11:09
to why they believe the way that they believe.
11:11
And so we had a really long discussion.
11:13
You know, it got emotional different points
11:14
for some people in there.
11:15
But the biggest impact I think that that lesson
11:19
that I was able to help teach in our Sunday school
11:21
was I gave in Sunday school, I only did 13,
11:25
but I gave them ways to answer pro-abortion arguments.
11:28
And so in this podcast episode,
11:30
I'm gonna do a little bit of that.
11:31
I added a little bit of extra just for you guys,
11:33
but we're gonna be answering 17 pro-abortion arguments.
11:37
And now just kind of give you an idea
11:39
of how this is gonna flow one through 17.
11:41
This isn't rank ordering.
11:43
You know, here's the ones that you're gonna get most often.
11:44
Here's the pushback that you're gonna get.
11:46
No, this is more of a narrative approach
11:49
because when I've had discussions with people
11:51
about this particular topic,
11:52
it doesn't usually start at the end or in the middle.
11:55
It usually progresses towards a certain level.
11:58
You hear me say all the time on this podcast
11:59
that typically when you're arguing with somebody
12:01
that disagrees with you,
12:02
especially if they happen to be on the political left
12:04
or the atheist left or whatever the thing might be,
12:06
they're constantly moving the goal posts.
12:09
And the thing is, is if you can't deal with that,
12:11
you're gonna have a hard time in that discussion.
12:13
You've gotta be able to have one of those,
12:15
you gotta be able to have the ideas ready in place
12:18
that you kinda know where the conversation is gonna go.
12:21
So I put these in order in this way
12:22
for this to be a reference for you.
12:24
That if you're engaged in an argument like this
12:26
with a coworker or a family member,
12:27
even someone at your church,
12:29
because here's the thing, you would be astonished
12:31
at the pro-choice ideas
12:33
that a lot of people in your church have.
12:36
I'm serious.
12:37
Like I've sat down with people
12:38
and I've heard some of the things they said,
12:39
I'm like, wait a minute, what?
12:41
You believe that?
12:43
So we're gonna get into that right here.
12:44
So we're gonna go ahead and start with the first one
12:47
we're gonna be talking about.
12:48
And how I'm gonna give this to you
12:49
is I'm gonna give you the argument that you would normally get
12:52
and then I'm gonna give you a question
12:54
in order to ask them in response.
12:57
So I'm not gonna be giving you a bunch of statements
12:59
to make back to them.
12:59
Like, ah, here's your gotcha, here's your ace of spades.
13:02
They're gonna give you their argument
13:03
and then your response is gonna be
13:05
in the form of a question.
13:06
You need to put them on their heels.
13:07
They need to defend their position.
13:09
'Cause again, they are not arguing from a moral perch here.
13:12
They are not on a high horse.
13:14
These are people that have a depraved worldview.
13:16
And in order to deal with that,
13:17
you put them on their heels, okay?
13:18
So here's the first argument you're gonna get.
13:20
Men can't have an opinion.
13:22
These new laws are just ways for white men
13:25
to control women's bodies.
13:27
And so in response to that first argument,
13:29
I would say this.
13:31
What about the millions of women that agree with me?
13:34
Because a funny thing is, is like,
13:37
if you don't have a uterus, you can't have an opinion.
13:39
Like, what are you talking about?
13:41
The overwhelming majority of people
13:43
that are in the pro-life side of things.
13:46
They're the ones at the rallies.
13:47
They're the ones at the pregnancy resource centers.
13:49
They're the one in the counseling departments.
13:51
They're women.
13:52
They're literally millions and millions
13:55
and millions of women that are pro-life.
13:58
So when someone brings that up,
13:59
it's such a silly way to start.
14:02
Because they love to point,
14:03
and I think I can't remember what, you know,
14:05
late night talk show this was on,
14:06
but they showed a picture, maybe even been the view,
14:08
but they showed this picture of the Alabama legislature
14:11
that passed this bill into law.
14:13
And if you look at them,
14:14
they were pretty much all white men.
14:16
So it's like, oh, you see, it's a patriarchy
14:19
and it's in sees racist white men
14:21
that are trying to control women's bodies
14:23
and da-da-da and all this other stuff.
14:25
But again, it's a silly argument to make,
14:27
but it's an easy one to field because it's like, okay,
14:29
let's say that we're true.
14:31
Let's let me grant you that,
14:33
that if you're a man,
14:34
you aren't supposed to have an opinion on this.
14:36
So y'all have it out with the millions of women
14:39
that agree with me.
14:40
That's an easy one to get around.
14:43
So the second argument is this,
14:45
my body, my choice, right?
14:48
I got a couple of responses for you.
14:49
So if someone is making the my body, my choice argument,
14:52
you can say something like this.
14:53
And what other domain of society is that true, right?
14:58
And you're gonna hear some of this
14:59
that you may have heard on episode six of this podcast.
15:01
If you wanna go back and listen to that,
15:02
I did another episode on abortion there.
15:05
But in what other domain of society is that true?
15:08
Because I can swing my arms around in a circle
15:11
in an open room and it's no big deal, right?
15:15
But the moment I start swinging my arms around
15:17
and purposely hitting people with them, it's a problem.
15:21
So let's say I swing my arms around
15:23
and I start assaulting people and the police are called
15:25
and they come up and I say, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa."
15:27
My body, my choice, guys.
15:29
I can do whatever I want to with my body.
15:32
Guys, I'm still gonna be taking out handcuffs.
15:33
I mean, that's the reality of it.
15:35
You've seen me say before or something like that.
15:37
If you go take off running down the middle of the interstate
15:39
with no clothes on and you get arrested,
15:42
you can't just be like, "Ah, my body, my choice."
15:44
That's not how that works, right?
15:46
So these people that think that that's some sort of
15:48
a trump card argument, it's silly.
15:51
But another response to my body, my choice,
15:53
is it's not your body, it's in your body, right?
15:58
That's not really framed as a question,
16:00
but yeah, it's not your body.
16:02
It's in your body because again, this is new DNA.
16:07
When the sperm meets the egg and makes the one-celled zygote,
16:10
it's brand new DNA.
16:11
It's not mom and it's not dad.
16:14
'Cause you hear people now saying like,
16:15
"Oh, well, there's DNA in your sperm,
16:17
so can guys not masturbate anymore?"
16:19
Or there's DNA in your fingernails
16:21
so you can't clip your fingernails.
16:22
I don't think anybody is claiming genocide
16:25
if you start clipping your fingernails, guys.
16:26
There's DNA everywhere.
16:28
But you don't get new life from clipping your fingernails.
16:33
You certainly don't get new life from masturbating
16:35
or any of those things, right?
16:37
But again, what's growing inside the woman
16:41
is simply that inside the woman.
16:43
It's not a part of the woman.
16:46
Now, the life inside of her is sustained by her body,
16:49
but the same can be said for born humans.
16:53
You have to use your bodies to sustain life for them.
16:55
You have to use your bodies to work, to make money
16:58
in order to be able to buy food, to sustain that life.
17:02
So again, I've said something like this before.
17:04
If I stick my finger up your nose
17:05
or in your ear or something like that,
17:07
I'm in your body, I'm not part of your body.
17:09
You don't all of a sudden get to make decisions
17:12
as to whether or not I can live
17:13
just because I'm inside your body.
17:15
It is a completely separate being.
17:18
It's just inside the woman.
17:20
So now let's go to the third argument.
17:23
The third argument is this, is it's not a life.
17:26
It's a potential life.
17:28
It's just a clump of sales, okay?
17:31
So I got a few responses to this.
17:34
So one response would be, what do you mean by potential life?
17:38
'Cause one thing that's really important for you to do
17:40
is when you're in a discussion like this
17:41
with somebody is you have to define terms.
17:44
'Cause if you start arguing about potential life
17:46
and they've got a different definition,
17:47
you're gonna be on two separate sheets of music
17:49
and it's gonna be hard for you to get back on the same page,
17:51
okay?
17:52
Just ask them, what do you mean by potential life?
17:55
Just get an idea from them as to what potential life is.
17:58
And so the other part of that is you could just say,
18:02
you know, well, you're a potential life.
18:04
Like there's no guarantee that you're going to be living
18:09
tomorrow, so you're still potential life.
18:12
And if they don't like that, another response you could
18:15
throw at them is, would it be fair to say
18:17
that you are just a clump of sales?
18:19
'Cause again, these people are trying to make this
18:22
declaration that what's growing inside of the woman
18:24
is basically like a polyp or something like that.
18:27
But we're all technically clumps of sales.
18:30
We constantly have sales that are splitting off
18:33
and dying and regenerating and all these different things,
18:35
but it would be fair to say that we are a clump of sales.
18:39
So you should get them to admit that.
18:42
But the big question here that most of the people
18:45
on that side of the argument can't answer is this,
18:48
when is it a human life then?
18:50
When is it alive?
18:53
When is it valuable?
18:55
And then you just get to watch them stumble
18:58
all over themselves, right?
19:00
Because they have a hard time defining that,
19:04
which leads to argument number four.
19:06
They'll say something like this.
19:08
It may be a human, but it's not a person.
19:13
Which the response would immediately become,
19:15
when is it a person then?
19:17
Because the thing about the political left is
19:20
they've attempted to separate humanness and personhood.
19:24
And this is kind of a new thing actually,
19:26
because they're starting to realize
19:28
that they're losing the scientific argument.
19:31
'Cause dumb dums back in the 70s,
19:32
70s actually believed that in the first trimester
19:36
that that wasn't really human.
19:37
They were really sure what it was,
19:38
but yeah, it wasn't really a baby, right?
19:41
They didn't have that idea,
19:42
but we don't have those excuses anymore.
19:44
Like there's way too much evidence to the contrary.
19:46
So have the person defined, when is it a person?
19:49
They're gonna have a really hard time doing that.
19:53
Because the left, they loved it,
19:55
kind of twist themselves up into knots.
19:57
I mean, just like right now,
19:57
they're trying to separate biological sex and gender, right?
20:01
That's the whole transgender debate thing.
20:02
They're trying to separate those two things,
20:04
and they're having a really hard time doing it.
20:07
Maybe because it's antithetical and anti-science.
20:11
But again, you have to put them on their heels.
20:12
When is it a person then?
20:14
When is it a person?
20:16
So one of the responses you might get,
20:20
and this is actually argument number five
20:21
that you're gonna get from these pro-abortion people,
20:24
is it's not a person until it's sentient.
20:27
So for those of you who are sentience,
20:30
maybe a new word, that's essentially the ability
20:32
to perceive your environment, right?
20:34
So using your sensory organs,
20:36
and so that could be like suffering or pain
20:38
or pleasure or comfort or basically,
20:42
yeah, that's just pretty much it.
20:43
That's what sentience is,
20:44
your ability to experience the world around you
20:47
and understand what you're experiencing.
20:49
So a response to that would be,
20:51
is if you're in a coma from which you might awake,
20:54
"Can I murder you?"
20:56
That's the Ben Shapiro argument, right?
20:58
Because if you're in a coma, you are not sentient.
21:00
Technically, if you're asleep, you're not sentient.
21:03
So if your wife or the person
21:05
whoever you're talking to, if they were in a coma,
21:07
just ask them, would you be angry?
21:09
If I walked into the hotel room
21:11
and shot them in the head, would that be a problem?
21:14
Because again, sentience confers personhood,
21:18
if someone makes that argument, right?
21:20
'Cause another response you could give them
21:23
is if you're someone with a mental handicap,
21:26
could I murder you?
21:27
If someone in your family had a mental handicap
21:30
where sentience was in question,
21:32
"Can I murder that person without any issues?"
21:35
Is my conscience clear?
21:37
Am I morally okay?
21:38
Am I lawfully okay?
21:40
So again, if somebody is going to say sentience
21:44
is the part when a person begins,
21:46
they've got to be able to defend that for adults.
21:48
They have to.
21:49
So argument number six that you're gonna get
21:52
from these individuals will be something like this.
21:54
It's not a person until it's viable, right?
21:58
So maybe they won't make this sentience argument.
22:00
It's not a person until it's viable.
22:02
This one's really easy to respond to.
22:04
Just say something like this.
22:05
Is a newborn viable?
22:08
And you should be expecting them
22:11
to look back at you like you're insane.
22:13
But here's the thing.
22:14
If you have a three month old baby
22:16
and you leave them in the middle of the floor
22:20
and you and your spouse leave,
22:22
and you never come back, that baby's dead.
22:25
I mean, there's no two ways about it.
22:29
And some people might argue,
22:30
"Well, what if somebody like your neighbor
22:32
"like knocked on the door and saw the baby
22:33
"and went in and helped it?"
22:34
Okay, yeah, you're making the point for me.
22:37
You have to have another human being intercede
22:40
because the baby cannot sustain itself.
22:42
Thus, it's not viable.
22:44
I mean, a two year old's not viable.
22:47
Four year old might not be viable, right?
22:49
So it's not a person until it's viable.
22:52
Well, are babies viable?
22:55
The answer's no.
22:55
Another response to that same question
22:58
is if you're on life support of some kind,
23:01
can I murder you?
23:03
Right, you're kind of making these extreme examples
23:06
to put it in their head.
23:07
But if you're on life support,
23:08
you have a machine keeping you alive.
23:10
You are not viable.
23:11
You're having to be kept alive
23:14
by something else that is outside of you.
23:16
If you're in surgery, right?
23:19
And there's a machine keeping your heart going
23:21
during surgery and something were to happen to you.
23:24
Is it a tragedy at that point?
23:26
If someone comes in and murders you,
23:28
is that actually murder?
23:29
Is that just somebody performing a procedure at that point?
23:33
So that's an easy way to respond to the,
23:35
it's not a person until it's viable argument.
23:38
And then we get into number seven,
23:40
which is not a person until it's born.
23:43
It's not a person until it's born.
23:46
At which point you say something like this,
23:48
does the vaginal canal confer personhood?
23:51
It's a fair question because pre-vaginal canal,
23:58
or if you get a C-section while it's still in the stomach,
24:01
you know, what is it?
24:04
Because on the other side of the vagina, right?
24:07
It's a person, right?
24:09
Now it's a person.
24:10
Now it's worth our protection.
24:12
If you were to shoot a baby that just came right out
24:14
of the vagina, you shot it in the head problem.
24:16
You're probably going to jail forever for that.
24:19
But you got to ask them this as well.
24:21
If they say it's not a person until it's born,
24:24
what is it when it's still inside the body then?
24:26
Like what's in there?
24:29
Like, are we just like guessing?
24:32
Could it come out as like, you know, like a zebra
24:35
or a ficus or a Volkswagen?
24:37
Like what's it going to be?
24:39
If it's not a baby, if it's not a human, then what is it?
24:42
And that's the thing guys,
24:44
especially for arguments four through seven.
24:46
So that's, it may not be a human, but it's not a person.
24:50
It's not a person until it's sentient.
24:52
It's not a person until it's viable.
24:53
It's not a person until it's born.
24:55
You have to apply those same standards to humans of any age.
25:02
So if you want to apply those standards
25:04
to a baby in the womb, you have to apply it to adults.
25:07
You have to, that's basically how it goes.
25:11
'Cause if you're an adult and you're not viable,
25:13
we shouldn't be able to protect you according to their logic.
25:16
If you're an adult and you're not sentient
25:17
or even a baby and you're not sentient or whatever,
25:19
you should be able to be killed without any repercussions.
25:23
Right?
25:24
So, and then what are the things that are about this
25:26
when people say, you know, it's human, but it's not a person.
25:29
Sounds like a tootsie argument or like what was going on
25:34
during Rwanda and you have Nazi Germany
25:36
and what Pol Pot was doing in Cambodia
25:38
and all these different places, it's like,
25:40
you're getting some of these same arguments.
25:41
Like these aren't actually people, right?
25:45
Like just think about that for a little bit.
25:47
So that's kind of the first half or so
25:49
and then you start getting into some of their more
25:51
desperate arguments.
25:53
So let's get into argument number eight.
25:55
Do you think that you can just force women to reproduce?
25:59
You might get that one.
25:59
That one's kind of funny actually.
26:01
Because it's like, well, I'll just go ahead
26:03
and say what your response should be.
26:04
The response should be something like this.
26:06
Is are you aware that reproduction happens at conception
26:10
and not at birth?
26:11
Because again, no one should be forced to reproduce.
26:15
Like again, like if you're being forced to reproduce,
26:19
that's called rape, right?
26:20
And it's without your consent and that's horrible
26:22
for a myriad of other reasons.
26:24
And we'll talk more about that here in just a second.
26:26
But that's not where reproduction happens.
26:29
It doesn't happen at birth.
26:30
It happens when you conceive.
26:32
So after you've conceived,
26:34
everything after that is ending of a human life
26:37
up until the point of birth, correct?
26:39
So argument number eight is easy to deal with.
26:42
So let's do argument number nine.
26:44
What if the mother's life or health is at risk?
26:47
So if you start getting this question,
26:50
you know you're starting to win a little bit.
26:53
You know they're kind of turning
26:54
into some of the more desperate sides of the argument,
26:57
but to be fair, there are still people
27:00
that would ask this question that are trying to be fair.
27:02
So I want to be fair as well.
27:04
So if they say what if the mother's life
27:06
or health is at risk, you say this.
27:09
Are you aware that abortion is never medically necessary
27:14
to save the life of the mother?
27:16
At which point even your pro-life friends
27:20
are going to look at you like, oh my gosh,
27:22
did he just say that?
27:24
But that's the truth.
27:25
Abortion is never medically necessary
27:29
to save the life of the mother.
27:32
So if that sounds a little bit off to you,
27:34
it's probably because you haven't heard something
27:35
called the Dublin Declaration, okay?
27:38
So I just want to read the Dublin Declaration
27:40
to you here really quick.
27:42
It's just a few sentences, but I just want to read it
27:44
to you here because it'll make more sense here in a second.
27:46
As experienced practitioners and researchers
27:48
in obstetrics and gynecology,
27:50
we affirm that direct abortion,
27:52
the purposeful destruction of an unborn child
27:55
is not medically necessary to save the life of a woman.
27:59
We uphold that there is a fundamental difference
28:01
between abortion and necessary medical treatments
28:04
that are carried out to save the life of the mother,
28:07
even if such treatment results in the loss of life
28:10
of her unborn child.
28:11
We confirm that the prohibition of abortion
28:13
does not affect in any way the availability
28:17
of optimal care to pregnant women.
28:20
So these are people that know way more than you
28:23
and way more than me about what it actually takes
28:26
to keep a woman and/or a baby alive
28:28
during the process of birth or at any point
28:30
during the pregnancy.
28:32
But you do not have to kill baby.
28:36
You just don't.
28:38
So you heard this a lot whenever the New York bill
28:40
was passed about late-term abortions,
28:41
how egregious that was, and people were always like,
28:44
oh, so if a woman's eight months pregnant
28:46
and if she gives birth to the baby
28:48
or keeps the pregnancy, that she'll die.
28:51
It's a definitive thing that she will die.
28:53
Then you would be okay with that,
28:55
Mr. or Mrs. Pro life.
28:57
But here's the thing, is if you're in the third trimester,
29:01
you don't have to abort the baby
29:04
in order to save your life.
29:05
You just deliver it.
29:07
The pregnancy can end without the baby being killed.
29:12
That's why when people use these euphemisms with abortion
29:15
and say, oh, it's just the ending of a pregnancy.
29:17
Birth is the ending of a pregnancy.
29:19
You dope?
29:20
Like it's, what are you talking about?
29:23
But then you get a lot of the same responses.
29:25
Well, what if the mother has cancer
29:27
and she needs to undergo radiation
29:28
and the area that's affected by the cancer
29:31
is in her abdomen?
29:33
Well, we've seen stuff before where the womb
29:35
has actually been removed from the belly
29:37
of a pregnant woman so that she could undergo
29:39
a medical procedure and the womb is then put back
29:42
and she is sewed up and the pregnancy continues.
29:44
We've seen that before.
29:46
But here's the thing, guys,
29:48
is if a woman has cancer and she's pregnant
29:52
and she has to have radiation in order to save her life
29:55
and because of the radiation treatment,
29:58
the baby dies and she miscarries
30:01
or still bursts or something like that.
30:02
That's not an abortion.
30:04
That's not an abortion.
30:06
Like you understand the difference.
30:10
The point of the procedure was not to kill baby.
30:13
It was to preserve the life of the mother.
30:16
And if the baby happens to die,
30:18
that is a very unfortunate side effect.
30:21
But there are some that are even more specific, right?
30:24
So one is one that you've probably not really heard of,
30:26
but it's Coriomneonitis.
30:29
Coriomneonitis.
30:30
So this is an infection of the membrane
30:33
that's basically surrounding the fetus.
30:35
It is incredibly, incredibly dangerous for baby and for mom.
30:39
So at that point, if mom has Coriomneonitis,
30:43
you induce birth.
30:45
The overwhelming likelihood is that baby will not survive,
30:48
but it is not an abortion.
30:51
It's just not.
30:51
Again, you're trying to preserve life.
30:55
There's a chance you will preserve too.
30:57
There's a chance that you will be over to.
31:00
There's a chance you'll be one in one,
31:01
but you're trying to preserve life.
31:03
And the big one that people ask about
31:05
is what about tubular or ectopic pregnancy?
31:08
So that's basically where the baby doesn't nest
31:12
in the right place, it nests in the fallopian tube
31:16
or something like that,
31:17
thus giving you an ectopic pregnancy.
31:18
Again, very, very dangerous for mom.
31:20
A lot of times in order to deal with an ectopic pregnancy,
31:22
they actually have to remove the fallopian tube.
31:26
So when you remove the fallopian tube,
31:28
again, that is not an abortion.
31:30
That is a medical procedure that is meant
31:33
to protect the life of mom.
31:34
Because in most of the instances
31:37
where mom's life is at risk,
31:40
which is an incredibly small percentage
31:42
of the reasons given for abortion,
31:44
incredibly small percentage,
31:45
in most of those cases, you can just deliver.
31:49
We've seen babies survive at, I think, 18, 19 weeks
31:53
being that premature.
31:55
They're surviving and thriving years and years later.
31:58
So again, don't get caught up in that.
32:01
Don't get caught up in the emotionality
32:02
of the argument of, oh, well,
32:04
the mother's life's at risk and her life's more valuable
32:07
and we don't even know if this baby's gonna be born alive
32:09
and blah, blah, and all those things.
32:11
It doesn't even matter.
32:12
Again, if you're in your third trimester
32:13
and you have a major medical issue
32:15
that makes it hard for you to survive
32:18
if baby stays in there, just deliver baby.
32:20
It's that simple.
32:21
So argument number 10 is this.
32:24
What about rape and incest?
32:27
And here's the thing, guys,
32:28
before I get into any of the responses there,
32:30
if they ask you this question,
32:32
just kind of sit back and relax
32:34
'cause you know you've won the argument.
32:36
'Cause if they go to this, they're done for.
32:39
And this is why.
32:40
Because of the listed reasons for abortion in the United States.
32:45
So if we're combining all the abortions
32:47
that happen because of rape and incest on an annualized basis,
32:50
it's less than one half of 1% of all abortions in the US.
32:54
There's varying statistics, but it's less than 1%.
32:59
We can all pretty much agree on that,
33:01
but it's even smaller than that.
33:02
I've seen as low as 0.33% of all abortions
33:05
are because of rape and incest.
33:08
And just, again, before we get into the responses,
33:11
let me go ahead and list off for you.
33:13
The top six reasons listed for abortion in the United States.
33:17
Get ready to get real angry, right?
33:19
The top six reasons, and these account
33:21
for the overwhelming majority
33:23
of all the abortions in the United States.
33:25
Here we go, in order.
33:26
Number one, not ready for a child or another child,
33:30
or the timing is wrong.
33:32
Number two, they can't afford a baby right now.
33:35
Number three, they haven't completed their childbearing,
33:38
or they, sorry, they have completed their childbearing.
33:41
They have other depending children's, other dependents,
33:44
or their children are already grown.
33:45
They don't want to kind of go through the baby process again.
33:47
That's number three.
33:48
Number four, they don't want to be a single mother,
33:51
or they're currently having relationship problems.
33:54
Number five, they don't feel mature enough
33:56
to raise a child or another child.
33:58
They just feel too young.
34:00
And number six, this would interfere
34:02
with their educational or career plans.
34:05
If you're wondering where I got this from,
34:07
I got this from the Guttmacher Institute,
34:09
which is not a fan of the pro-life side of things
34:12
before any of y'all at me.
34:13
But those six things that we have there
34:17
can be categorized in one word, convenience.
34:21
It's very inconvenient that I am pregnant right now.
34:26
This is so very inconvenient for me.
34:28
Again, it's not rape and incest.
34:31
It's not my life's on the line.
34:34
And so I just, no, I don't really feel like it.
34:36
It's going to be hard.
34:37
I don't know if I have the money.
34:38
I've already got kids.
34:39
I don't want any more, right?
34:41
So when people talk about how hard it is
34:44
for these women to decide to have an abortion, really?
34:47
They're choosing between their educations,
34:50
being interfered with, and the life of a human?
34:53
Sorry, I don't feel bad for them, okay?
34:55
But let's get back to the question at hand,
34:57
which is the argument, what about rape and incest?
34:59
What about rape and incest?
35:01
Here's a response, are you willing to concede
35:04
that all other abortions are immoral?
35:07
Again, this is another Ben Shapiro argument,
35:08
'cause when someone brings up rape and incest,
35:11
which is the exception of all the exceptions,
35:13
with less than 1%, less than 1/2 of 1% of all cases,
35:17
you have to get the other person to define
35:19
whether they think other abortions are wrong as well.
35:22
Because the overwhelming majority of the time,
35:25
they will not concede that point to you.
35:27
They just won't.
35:28
They don't think abortion is wrong,
35:30
but they're losing the argument.
35:32
So they have to throw a Hail Mary.
35:35
And the Hail Mary is that.
35:37
What about rape and incest?
35:38
But they're not willing to concede that.
35:41
So another thing that you should ask them is this,
35:44
and this kills the rape and incest argument.
35:47
And it says, should innocent children be able
35:50
to get the death penalty for the crimes of their fathers?
35:54
I'll say that again.
35:57
Should innocent children be able to get the death penalty
36:00
for the crimes of their fathers?
36:01
Because that's exactly what you're doing.
36:03
When you execute a child in the womb,
36:06
that's exactly what you're getting.
36:10
Because here's the thing.
36:12
There are cases where the men that,
36:16
I mean, these rapists, they literally love abortion.
36:19
Because if you discard of the fetus,
36:22
after it's aborted, if you discard of it,
36:24
there's no DNA evidence left of the crime.
36:26
So that person can't go down with DNA evidence
36:31
because you've gotten rid of all the evidence, right?
36:33
There are other ways that you can be caught,
36:35
but you just made it a lot easier for the rapist.
36:38
But think about it in practical terms.
36:40
Think about all you guys out there
36:41
whose fathers are still living.
36:44
What if your father could commit a very particular crime
36:47
that would have the outcome of you dying?
36:50
Wouldn't that be a little bit unfair?
36:54
'Cause that's exactly what we're saying in this situation.
36:56
Okay?
36:57
But here's the thing.
36:59
Before anyone starts to get crazy and think
37:01
that I've kind of lost what I'm going with here.
37:04
I'm not saying that these women are going through
37:07
something that's insanely unbelievably difficult.
37:11
They've had a tremendous evil done against them.
37:14
And I truly, truly have a lot of empathy for them.
37:18
I'm very sympathetic to the things
37:20
that they're gonna have to go through.
37:22
But killing the baby doesn't get rid of the rape.
37:25
It doesn't punish the rape.
37:29
It literally punishes an innocent third party.
37:32
That is not mom and that is not dad.
37:34
Because there's another response here to this.
37:38
Is our humans born out of rape less human
37:41
than those not born out of rape?
37:43
Because there's a lot of babies alive today.
37:47
Go on Twitter, you'll find them and go on Instagram.
37:50
These are babies that were conceived in rape
37:52
that are alive today, that are in college
37:55
and playing sports and they've got jobs
37:57
and they're contributing to society.
37:58
They have their own families.
38:00
Their mothers love them.
38:02
Their mothers' families love them.
38:05
And so when you say that if a woman's been raped
38:10
and if she's been raped by a family member
38:12
that having the baby is a net negative in every situation,
38:16
it is to call those people that are currently alive
38:18
less than human or less human than you
38:21
'cause you aren't conceived in rape.
38:22
So again, if they throw that argument at you,
38:26
you've got to stay on your ground.
38:27
You have to ask them the question,
38:29
should innocent children be able to get the death penalty
38:31
for the crimes of their fathers?
38:33
Just see what they do.
38:35
'Cause again, I've sat across from people
38:37
and I've said, no, women that have been raped,
38:40
even if they've been raped by a family member,
38:41
should not be able to kill the baby inside them.
38:43
And I've seen them look at me with sheer disgust and anger.
38:47
But I don't care what they think about it.
38:50
I care about the lives of the unborn, okay?
38:53
Which leads exactly into argument number 11, which is this.
38:57
Pro-lifers only care about the baby before it's born.
39:01
That's another one.
39:03
Again, they've kind of lost on every other front
39:04
at this point, so now they're just throwing up
39:06
Hail Mary's all over the place, right?
39:08
You just ask 'em this, if that were true,
39:10
then why are there more pregnancy resource centers
39:13
than abortion clinics?
39:14
Because that's the truth.
39:18
There are literally only a few hundred abortion clinics
39:21
in the entirety of the United States.
39:22
These are clinics that mainly do abortion.
39:24
They're basically just there to provide abortion.
39:27
There are literally thousands and thousands
39:30
of pregnancy resource centers and emergency pregnancy centers
39:34
and post birth, you know,
39:37
women's health and health centers, right?
39:40
That are just for these types of crisis pregnancies,
39:43
as they're called, right?
39:45
And here's the thing.
39:46
The overwhelming majority of those are ran
39:48
by right-wing pro-life conservative Christians.
39:53
I had a guy, he's a friend of mine.
39:55
He lives in Philadelphia.
39:56
He posted a George Carlin quote from a long time ago,
39:59
basically coming at conservatives saying,
40:01
"Ah, yeah, you don't want us to be able to kill the babies."
40:04
But, you know, after they're born,
40:05
you just don't care about 'em.
40:06
Because what they're doing is they're conflating
40:09
the conservative viewpoint that we shouldn't raise taxes
40:11
in every scenario and that there should at least be
40:14
some standards around welfare and around certain,
40:18
you know, nanny state type programs,
40:19
that that somehow means that we don't care about people.
40:22
No, it's that we know the value of a dollar
40:24
and if you don't have a dollar to spend
40:26
and you spend $3, you're in the hole.
40:29
We also know that there's certain people
40:30
that are gaming the system and we're trying to get
40:32
those people out of the system so that we can actually
40:34
help the people that cannot help themselves.
40:36
That is the entire point of welfare.
40:39
But when someone says that pro-lifers don't care
40:40
about the baby after they're born, it's ignorant.
40:43
It's an ignorant argument and you gotta call it out.
40:45
All right, so argument number 12 is this.
40:47
Have you adopted any of these children,
40:50
any of these unwanted children?
40:51
If not, you can't have a say.
40:54
So the response would be this.
40:56
Is it possible to have never adopted a child
41:00
while simultaneously being able to have the opinion
41:03
that innocent people shouldn't be murdered?
41:05
I mean, it's just a dumb argument.
41:09
So if you've never given money or food to a homeless person,
41:12
does that mean you hate homeless people?
41:13
Does that mean that we shouldn't fund homeless programs?
41:16
If you've never adopted a dog,
41:18
does that mean your pro-animal cruelty?
41:21
Like it's just absurd because here's the thing
41:23
is there's literally no way possible
41:26
that every single person that is in trouble,
41:28
including an orphan child or an unwanted child,
41:31
can be adopted by everybody or be cared for by everybody.
41:35
There's just not enough means in the world
41:37
for the most part to be able to do something like that.
41:39
There's just not enough capability.
41:40
And there's a lot of people that would take on
41:43
a crisis pregnancy and take the child
41:45
that they just can't.
41:46
They physically can't, they financially can't.
41:49
But at the same time, there's a lot of people
41:52
on the pro-life side that are lining up to adopt these kids.
41:55
It's not the pro-choicers.
41:56
If somebody is deciding between abortion and not abortion
42:01
and they decide to not have an abortion
42:02
and instead put the baby up for adoption,
42:04
there's not a whole lot of pro-abortion people out there
42:06
that are waiting for that baby.
42:07
It's pro-life people.
42:09
There's examples, anecdotal stories.
42:11
I will admit that all over the place
42:13
of someone's in a crisis pregnancy
42:15
and someone maybe puts it out online
42:17
and then you have a line of strangers
42:20
that'll say, "I will take your baby."
42:22
You have people that are praying
42:24
outside of Planned Parenthood clinics
42:25
and they're saying, "Look, look, look,
42:27
just come over and talk to us
42:28
"because if you give birth to this baby,
42:30
"we will take this baby if you don't want it.
42:32
"We will take it. We will adopt it.
42:34
"We are strangers. We will adopt this baby."
42:37
That's the pro-life side of things.
42:39
So if someone's like, "Oh, well, you haven't adopted any,
42:41
"what have you done lately?"
42:43
Now, I will say this, the one fair thing is
42:45
is if you're sitting there having an argument with somebody
42:47
and you've done nothing to support a crisis pregnancies
42:51
or these mothers or these babies
42:53
or any anti-abortion lobbies or things like that,
42:56
maybe that's an issue for you.
42:57
Maybe you need to get in the game a little bit more, okay?
43:00
So argument number 13 is this.
43:03
Even if the unwanted baby is taken to term and born,
43:06
there wouldn't be a family available to adopt them, okay?
43:10
And the response here would just be,
43:11
"Are you familiar with any statistical trends
43:13
"with adoption in the United States?"
43:16
Because here's the thing, and I'm not gonna go on a diatribe
43:18
about adoption, but adoption is a very complicated thing
43:21
in the United States.
43:22
The hoops that you have to jump through
43:23
in order to adopt a child in a lot of cases
43:26
are unnecessarily crazy.
43:28
It's like way too much of an expectation
43:30
on a lot of these families to be able to do these things.
43:33
But at the same time, there are plenty
43:34
of adoptive families available.
43:36
I go into more detail on that in episode six
43:38
of this podcast, so I would just urge you
43:39
to go back and listen to that one.
43:41
So argument number 14 is this.
43:43
Abortion helps the economy.
43:46
Yes, this is actually a thing that people have said, right?
43:49
That abortion, it's just better
43:51
if we don't have more mouths to feed inside of the economy, okay?
43:55
So here's how you respond to that one.
43:57
Are you saying that murder is okay
43:59
as long as it's for economic reasons?
44:02
Because here's the thing, let's take a family of five.
44:06
Let's say you've got a single mother of five, right?
44:08
So dad's gone, dad's a deadbeat, right?
44:11
So the woman is doing all she can.
44:13
She's working two jobs, she's paying for babysitter,
44:15
she's got all these different things.
44:17
And if she could just get rid of two of her babies,
44:20
then her situation would be much better.
44:23
It would really help the personal economy of her household.
44:26
Would that be okay?
44:28
If she just drowned a couple of her kids?
44:31
Through a couple of her kids off her bridge.
44:33
Would that be okay?
44:35
I don't think they'd be okay with that, right?
44:40
But here's another one.
44:41
This is kind of gonna punch them directly in the face.
44:43
So you gotta really have some stones
44:44
if you're gonna throw this back at them.
44:45
But if they say abortion helps the economy,
44:47
your response should be,
44:48
are you aware that proponents of slavery
44:50
use the same argument that you're using?
44:52
You can actually use that in a lot of different ways,
44:55
because again, we said that black slaves in the United States,
44:58
a lot of people said, oh, well, they're not really people, right?
45:01
You know, that's why the Dred Scott decision was, you know,
45:04
one of the two worst decisions in the history of the Supreme Court,
45:06
the other being Roe v. Wade,
45:08
because they basically would not allow people to be called people.
45:11
And that's exactly what these slavers did in the South.
45:15
They said, wait a minute, wait a minute,
45:16
if you take away our ability to have slaves,
45:18
it'll affect the South, it'll affect our state,
45:21
it'll affect my personal wealth,
45:22
it'll affect all those things.
45:25
Yeah, yeah, it will.
45:27
Who cares?
45:28
Because what you're doing is evil.
45:30
What you're doing is wrong, it's immoral.
45:32
So we're not gonna stand for that, right?
45:34
So why was it okay to not stand for it back then?
45:37
But it's a problem if you don't want to stand for it now.
45:40
You have to ask them that.
45:41
All right, guys, few more arguments here.
45:43
Argument number 15, you say that you're pro-death penalty.
45:46
That means you can't be pro-life.
45:49
So this is kind of a new one.
45:51
This is also kind of like a Hail Mary
45:53
that you'll get from some of these people.
45:55
But the response that you get is,
45:56
are you comparing unborn humans to born humans
46:01
that have murdered other born humans?
46:03
Because that's what they're doing.
46:06
If they're saying, oh, well, your pro-death penalty,
46:08
you can't be pro-life, I'm talking about criminals.
46:11
'Cause if you get the death penalty,
46:12
you don't get that for stealing a pack of gum, right?
46:16
That's almost 100% of the time
46:18
because you took another person's life.
46:21
And it was premeditated.
46:23
That's another thing that will get you capital murder.
46:26
Because here we can actually go to the Bible a little bit
46:28
because God, to Noah in Genesis nine, he said this,
46:31
whoever shed the blood of man
46:33
by man shall his blood be shed
46:34
for God made man in his own image.
46:36
So basically, if you shed the blood of someone
46:39
who has the Amago day, if you're murdering that person,
46:41
you have lost your right to life.
46:44
And in Exodus two, God says this to Moses,
46:46
whoever strikes a man so that he dies,
46:48
shall be put to death.
46:50
And again, that's not like, oh,
46:51
that's not talking about self-defense.
46:53
That's not talking about war.
46:54
That's not talking about any of those things.
46:56
It's not manslaughter.
46:57
It's talking about the act of murder.
46:59
But the thing about it is,
47:00
is you really got to put them on their heels.
47:02
Again, you're feeling like you're being questioned by them
47:05
and they feel like they're in control
47:06
if they're asking questions.
47:07
You have to put them back on their heels.
47:08
Are you comparing unborn humans to born humans
47:10
that have murdered other born humans?
47:13
Because I'm one of those people
47:14
that thinks if you rape someone else
47:16
that you should also get the death penalty for that.
47:18
But again, that doesn't really happen here in the United States.
47:20
But again, they've got to have an answer for that.
47:23
'Cause yes, I am pro-death penalty.
47:26
I think it is a deterrent.
47:27
It's clearly a deterrent.
47:28
And at the same time,
47:30
if that person has shown grace and given life in prison,
47:32
okay.
47:33
You know, it's a waste on the tax payer at that point,
47:39
especially if the person is definitely guilty.
47:41
And certainly there have been instances in the United States
47:44
where people that were not guilty were executed
47:46
and that is beyond unfortunate.
47:47
But again, it's just a different situation.
47:50
And so again, you have to put them on their heels.
47:52
Okay, guys, last two arguments here, argument 16.
47:55
Pro-lifers just hate women.
47:57
So of course, yeah, you just hate women,
47:59
especially if you're a white male, Protestant,
48:02
that's pro-life, just get ready.
48:03
Like everyone's just going to completely diminish you.
48:05
But even if you were, you know, a black, you know, female,
48:09
lesbian or something like that, it just, you know,
48:11
you would still get crap for it.
48:12
It's just going to be worse
48:13
if you're on the other side of the issue.
48:15
But the thing about it is is the way you respond to that is,
48:17
are you in favor of sex-selective abortions?
48:20
At which point they're probably going to look at you again,
48:23
like you're insane, like what do you mean
48:24
am I in favor of sex-selective abortions?
48:26
I'm of course not in favor of that.
48:27
Say, well, there are countries all over the world
48:30
that that's exactly what they do.
48:32
You've seen that in China, you've seen that in India.
48:34
China's, you know, one child program
48:37
that they enacted for a while
48:38
that they've since gotten more relaxed on.
48:40
Sex-selective abortions is just something that you do.
48:43
Oh, well, this is going to be a girl.
48:45
All right, we got to get rid of this thing.
48:48
Like, I don't see any of the first and second wave
48:50
and third wave feminists out in these other countries
48:52
saying that's insane, they should stop it, right?
48:56
Like, they don't understand that the United States
48:58
is basically in the same category as China
49:01
in North Korea in terms of our incredibly liberal,
49:03
quote unquote, progressive abortion laws.
49:06
Europe, a lot of Europe, which people consider
49:08
to be way more progressive than United States
49:11
in a lot of ways that they are,
49:12
they don't even think the way that we do an abortion.
49:14
They look at our abortion law and go,
49:15
"Yeah, that's a little bit sticky."
49:18
But again, this idea that we just hate women,
49:19
it's my extreme love of women in respect for the Amago Day
49:22
that they have, that makes me so passionate about this issue,
49:26
right?
49:27
And that gives us to the last argument here.
49:28
Argument number 17.
49:30
So you only want to demonize women, what about the men?
49:33
Again, I went into this on episode six of the podcast,
49:36
but this would be my response.
49:37
Is are you in favor of shaming men into sticking around?
49:41
Because I am.
49:44
Because people look at shame as,
49:47
"Oh, that's not really a good motivator.
49:48
I'd rather someone be like really inspired
49:50
to do the right thing."
49:51
Okay, well, if that doesn't work,
49:53
shame's another good tactic.
49:55
Because shame is something that works on a kid.
49:58
You shame them into starting to think the right way
50:02
or do the right thing.
50:03
The same can be said for an adult male
50:06
that has gotten a woman knocked up, got her pregnant, right?
50:10
Are you in favor of shaming those men to stick around?
50:12
Because I am.
50:13
Like we've seen this before, I mean,
50:15
the out of wedlock baby having in the United States
50:19
of all classes is insane.
50:21
Fully 77% of black babies born today
50:24
in the United States are born out of wedlock.
50:27
30% of white babies, that's a 10 times increase
50:30
from back in the 60s and 70s
50:32
and half of Hispanic babies are born out of wedlock.
50:35
It's a problem.
50:36
Now, I think that could create some other issues
50:39
if these guys stick around,
50:40
but I think that those are minor issues
50:42
compared to losing the life of the baby, right?
50:46
Just murdering the life that's inside the woman.
50:48
Because there's a lot of things that we can get into guys
50:51
because in argument, you're not really gonna get
50:53
from a pro abortion person,
50:54
is what about the rights of the guy?
50:57
Because this is a really good time to talk about
50:59
what if the woman gets pregnant
51:01
and the guy wants to keep it and the woman doesn't?
51:04
Is it still her body, her choice?
51:07
Because half of the DNA of the being
51:11
that's growing inside of her is the dudes.
51:13
Does he get a say?
51:14
Because here's one thing he can't do.
51:16
Let's say they get pregnant.
51:18
She wants to keep it.
51:19
He wants to get rid of it.
51:20
She has the baby.
51:21
Does he have to pay child support now?
51:25
I mean, honestly, I don't believe in these things.
51:27
I'm just saying this is what a logical person would say.
51:29
Hey, I didn't want this thing.
51:31
Like it was her, it's inside her body.
51:34
It's her body, her choice.
51:34
But hey, it's kind of my body, my choice.
51:36
'Cause I used part of my body to have this baby too, right?
51:39
But she chose to keep it.
51:41
I didn't want to have it.
51:42
So can I just pay her when I would have paid
51:43
for the abortion and can we just call it good from there?
51:46
Like nobody on the planet Earth would sign off on that
51:49
kind of a lot 'cause it's insane.
51:50
It's immoral, it's evil.
51:52
But again, the overall point here, guys,
51:54
is I want you to be able to engage with these arguments.
51:57
So I want this podcast to become a reference for you.
52:00
So if you've got other guys that are in the pro life stable,
52:03
you got other guys in your life,
52:04
you got to share this podcast with them,
52:06
this specific episode.
52:09
Because if you're not willing to engage
52:10
in these arguments, you won't.
52:13
Like if you're confused at how you should ask
52:15
these questions, you won't end up asking them.
52:17
Because here's the thing,
52:18
are there other arguments outside of these 17?
52:21
Of course there are.
52:22
But these are basically how these debates go.
52:26
Whether you're seeing two people to debate it on a stage
52:28
or they're debating it across a, you know,
52:30
the bar top from one another or something like that,
52:33
this is kind of where they all go.
52:35
These are the arguments.
52:36
There is not a pro abortion argument that makes sense
52:40
or is just not evil.
52:42
Like they're so easy to take down,
52:45
we just have to be willing to take them down.
52:48
All right guys, before we let you out of here,
52:49
we're going to do a quick resilience boost.
52:51
As you know, by now, we are a men's ministry
52:53
and our mission is cultivating manly resilience.
52:55
And specifically we do that by providing content
52:57
that for just spiritual, mental and physical toughness.
53:00
So today I want to leave you a few resources.
53:02
First of all, I just want to give you the link to life news.
53:05
That is www.lifenews.com.
53:07
That is where you get the most up-to-date news stories
53:10
about what's happening in the world of abortion.
53:13
And especially folks, there's a lot on American law.
53:15
And so those are great ways for you to kind of keep up
53:18
on how things are going.
53:19
But then I got two articles I want to leave for you
53:21
because these are both coming from a pro-life perspective
53:24
but they're kind of coming at it from different ways.
53:26
One is called pro-lifers have momentum
53:28
but they need to move gradually.
53:29
So this is kind of the gradual moving towards, you know,
53:33
taking bits and pieces away from Roe v. Wade
53:35
and things in the state level
53:37
that can eventually not be overturned or something like that.
53:40
But then the other side is this one,
53:41
Alabama and Georgia are throwing down the gauntlet
53:43
against Roe, good.
53:45
And so that's a guy from National Review.
53:46
He's basically writing saying now's the time,
53:48
let's go for the jugular.
53:49
Like, let's just, let's get everybody on record
53:52
for what they feel about this issue
53:53
'cause there's no more important issue for our time.
53:56
So again, guys, I hope you enjoyed the podcast today
53:58
and really, I really hope this is gonna be a helpful resource
54:00
for you as you engage in these conversations.
54:03
Thanks again for listening to the podcast.
54:04
We really do appreciate it.
54:05
Please subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud or Google Play
54:08
and refer your friends to listen
54:09
and share this on social media.
54:10
If you use the hashtag on Daunted Life,
54:12
we'll be sure to find your post and give it a thumbs up.
54:15
Guys, if we deserve a five-star review,
54:16
that would be a great thing for you to do.
54:18
Leave us those five stars in a few sentences
54:20
that let us know why you like what we're doing.
54:21
I'm booking speaking engagements for the remainder of 2019
54:24
and the beginning of 2020.
54:26
So if you want me to come speak on your podcast,
54:28
to your men's group, to your conference,
54:30
to your whatever, just hit me up,
54:31
info@undaunted.life.
54:33
Again, the email is info@undaunted.life.
54:35
The website is www.undaunted.life
54:38
and you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter
54:40
@undaunted.life or Facebook.com/undauntedlife.
54:44
Check out our free devotionals on the U version Bible app.
54:46
Just search "undaunted life" under plans.
54:48
And also, we want to thank the band August Burns Red
54:50
for allowing us to use their entire music library
54:53
for our content.
54:54
The Interalto track on this podcast is our song "King of Sorrow,"
54:57
which is off their latest record entitled "Phantom Anthem."
54:59
The links to this are in the description.
55:01
I'm your host, Kyle Thompson.
55:03
Remember, keep cultivating manly resilience,
55:06
keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical toughness.
55:10
Keep seeking the Lion of Judah.
55:12
(upbeat music)
55:16
♪ I can stop going like you ♪
55:21
♪ There are no ♪
55:24
♪ No, you're just a night on the day ♪