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This is Undaunted Life of Man's Podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
0:45
All right, guys. Today we are talking about the migrant caravan. So this has come up in a lot of
0:50
discussions here recently. And this is honestly something that I've been wanting to talk about
0:54
for several weeks. I wanted to talk about even before the midterm elections when this first kind
0:58
of came up. But we didn't really know what it was going to be. Right? So there were a lot of people,
1:03
there were alarmists on both sides of the political aisle that were telling us it was going to be
1:06
one thing or it was going to be another. And you know, it's still basically working itself out,
1:12
but it kind of came to a head over the weekend. But just for those of you out there that maybe
1:16
don't even know what I'm talking about, let me kind of bring you up to speed here a little bit,
1:19
even though I'm pretty sure most of you are aware of this. So about a month, month and a half
1:24
ago, which was, you know, before the midterm elections, we started seeing reports about a
1:29
migrant caravan that was going to be coming up from Central America. So the timing of this
1:35
migrant caravan was obviously very, very interesting. There were a lot of people, including myself,
1:39
that figured that Sunday or Monday before the midterm elections on Tuesday that we were going
1:45
to be seeing these clashes with this migrant caravan and United States authorities. It didn't
1:49
quite work out that way, but that was the idea. But this caravan includes people mainly from
1:55
Honduras and Guatemala and El Salvador that are supposedly seeking political asylum. So
2:02
as of right now, as the recording of this podcast, which is the day before it was released,
2:05
the night before it was released, because I wanted to make sure we had the latest information on
2:08
everything. There's around 6000 migrants that are currently hanging out in Tijuana, Mexico.
2:14
They're in a shelter there. They're not exactly hanging out. I didn't mean to be dismissive,
2:17
but they're in a shelter there in Mexico. And there are hundreds more that are joining them
2:23
every single day. And in a nearby city of Mexicali, there's about 2000 migrants that are chilling
2:29
there. So originally, there was much larger groups that were heading up through Central
2:34
America and then through Mexico. But there have been, you know, different points where this caravan,
2:39
where there were a lot of people that joined in. And then there was also times where we just
2:42
saw a lesser number of people. But one thing that I did find that was very interesting
2:47
is the fact that there's, you know, at different times, there were close to 8000 people
2:51
that are wanting to get in through this caravan. Because what we heard from a lot of people mainly
2:56
on the political left, but someone on the political right was we don't need to be talking about this.
3:00
We're making this too big of an issue. Trump's making this too big of an issue. By the time this
3:03
thing actually happens, you know, there's going to be dozens or maybe a few hundred people that
3:07
have come to the border. But this is a fairly significant attempted migration or or invasion,
3:14
however, you decide to say it. But around 8000 people, that's pretty substantial. But the thing is,
3:19
this did come to a head over the weekend, because hundreds of these migrants tried to force their
3:25
way into the country. Okay, so they rushed the border port of entry near San Pedro, California.
3:31
Many of them were throwing rocks at border patrol agents. Migrants were pushed back by border
3:36
control. A lot of these officers were shooting tear gas and pepper balls at these individuals.
3:42
And so that got a ton of play in the media, no matter what side of the political aisle you're on,
3:46
you got a lot of play on those different things. We've we know more about tear gas now than we know
3:51
than we've known about in any other time in American history, right? Because it's been talked
3:54
about so much. But there's a lot of things that have happened with this caravan. And there's a lot
3:59
of things that we need to talk about. But one of the things from the very beginning is I just
4:02
wanted to clear up some common misconceptions or misreporting that we're seeing in the media. And
4:09
I'm going to be picking on all forms of media here on both sides of the aisle. But I think
4:13
there were there were just some common things that are put out there that are just absolutely
4:16
false. Well, and I think the first the I guess the best place to start would be just what political
4:21
asylum even is. So a lot of people hear asylum that they're seeking asylum. And then what is that?
4:28
How do you even get get that? How do you apply for that? Is that something you apply for online?
4:32
It's just one of those things that no one really knows when you talk about it. So I wanted to
4:35
clear that up for you guys. So essentially, you have to legally be defined as a refugee in order
4:41
to apply for asylum in the United States of America. Okay, and there are two standards by which you
4:46
have to meet in order to for someone to be legally defined as a quote unquote refugee. Okay, the first
4:54
is that the asylum applicant must establish that they fear persecution in their home country.
4:59
They're they're going to be persecuted in some way, which goes to the second standard that they
5:04
have to meet, which is that they must prove that they would be persecuted on account of one of five
5:09
protected grounds. And those are nationality, political opinion, race, religion, or social group.
5:17
So if you can prove those two things, then you can apply for asylum to the United States. Now,
5:22
when you apply for asylum, asylum is not guaranteed. I feel like that's kind of a dub, but I did
5:26
fill the need to point that out. But when you apply for asylum, like so, as an example, if you're
5:32
coming up to our southern border, you have to come through an official port of entry. Okay, so
5:39
you cannot be crossing the desert illegally, or having a coyote, not not the animal, mind you,
5:46
like the people that are paid by cartels and other groups to actually ferry people across the border
5:52
into the United States. You know, you can't have, you'll be with a coyote and then go throw up your
5:57
hands and be like, Oh, no, I'm here. I wouldn't need asylum. I need to apply for asylum. That's not how
6:02
it works. You're actively in the process of breaking the laws of the sovereign nation of the United
6:06
States. No, you cannot apply for asylum at that time. That's not how it works. Another thing that
6:12
we look at right now is is refugees compose about one tenth of the total annual immigration to the
6:19
United States. And again, we're talking about legal immigration. And so that's a much higher
6:24
number than what people realize 10% of every illegal immigrant that comes to the United States every
6:29
year is one that would be considered a refugee. So that's something that I wanted to kind of clear
6:34
up. But here's some other misperceptions or things that have been misreported that I think are
6:38
important to talk about. One is that the border patrol behavior is somehow different or more heavy
6:46
handed under the Trump administration. So the Trump administration has become a lightning rod
6:51
for this issue because the entire time during the 2006 run up to the presidential election
6:56
during the Republican primaries and obviously in the general election, yeah, Donald Trump making
7:00
the wall and illegal immigration one of if not the biggest central issue of why you should vote for
7:07
him. So obviously when the Trump administration, its administration responds actively and some
7:13
would consider violently even though it's in defense, they consider this to be some sort of crazy new
7:18
thing. But don't get it twisted. The same things that are happening at the border right now
7:23
have been happening since we've been having these issues at the border. So essentially,
7:30
every year of Barack Obama's presidency, remember the left's favorite president of all time other
7:34
than JFK, they were using tear gas on these groups of migrants trying to storm borders at
7:41
different times for the eight years prior to Trump getting into office. So tear gas and pepper balls
7:47
and things like that were used under President Obama and the Obama administration regularly.
7:53
It was done all the time. So this idea that Trump's doing something different or more heavy handed
7:57
is just ridiculous. Another misconception is that the caravan is mainly women and children
8:03
because most of the images that we see, especially from mainstream media outlets,
8:08
you see these these women that are crying and and these kids that that look hungry and they're
8:12
dirty and all these different things. And yes, there are certainly women and children as a part
8:17
of this group, but it is mainly young men, mainly men, like working aged able bodied men.
8:25
That is the overwhelming majority of the people that are in this migrant caravan. Okay. And I guess
8:29
another misperception is that these migrants are coming to the United States to just get asylum.
8:37
Because that's what we keep seeing, right, is that there's a migrant caravan that is coming here
8:40
because they're seeking asylum. But we've got to be realistic about this. This is about economic
8:46
opportunity for the overwhelming majority of these people. Yes, are some of these people
8:51
from El Salvador, are they are they seeing issues from MS 13, which is, you know, the birthplace
8:57
of MS 13 is in El Salvador? Are they are they having issues there where they are in danger?
9:03
Sure. But that's not even close to the majority of the people that are in this caravan. There
9:08
are countless numbers of people that have been interviewed, not by right wing, you know, crazy
9:13
people or anything like that just by news outlets. And they're basically saying, look, I can't even
9:17
afford a living in my home country. That's why I'm coming to the United States. So I'm not going
9:22
to give you an opinion as to good or bad on that. But again, we keep being sold this thing that
9:27
this is about asylum. When it's obviously about economic opportunity and opportunity for a better
9:32
life, whatever they constitute as better for most of these people, right? But the thing that's
9:36
interesting about this is we have an easy proof here that this really isn't about asylum, that
9:42
it's actually about economic opportunity. Because why else would these people not have just stopped
9:48
and taken the asylum that was offered by the sovereign nation of Mexico? Because these people
9:53
that were coming up from Honduras and Guatemala and El Salvador and some other places, when they
9:57
got to Mexico, the Mexican government said, we will offer you asylum. And they said, nah, no, thanks.
10:03
We're going to keep heading north to go to the United States. Why? Is it because our asylum is
10:10
better than Mexico's asylum? Because our application's easier. Right? I mean, it's just weird. So it's
10:17
one of those things that just proves that for the majority of these people, it is not about asylum.
10:21
And again, if this is about asylum, that these people feel like they are in danger from their
10:26
home countries, what about these people that are waving the flags of their home country at our border?
10:31
These people that are fleeing El Salvador, because it's apparently so dangerous and they're just
10:37
really, really scared, but they're waving their flag and it's yelling things like, yes, we can,
10:42
as they basically try to pound their way through the border. I mean, it's just kind of silly to me.
10:47
I mean, you got that Nimwit that was just elected to Congress in New York. What's her name?
10:52
Ocasio-Cortez, that person that was elected to the house, who doesn't really know anything
10:57
about anything every time she opens her mouth. It's another blunder. But this week, she compared
11:02
this, the people that are trying to migrate here, this migrant caravan to Jews during World War II.
11:07
And so what's funny about that is I don't think Jews during World War II, whenever they were
11:14
being, you know, taken in by other countries, I don't think they would be waving the Nazi flag
11:19
at the border of another country they were trying to immigrate to, right? So stupid,
11:24
that someone would say that. Another misconception that I think has been thrown out there about
11:28
this caravan is that Trump or the Trump administration made up the phrase. This is kind of a small one,
11:34
but that they made up the phrase the caravan or migrant caravan. The thing is, is that phrasey
11:41
ology has been used literally since George W. Bush was in office. That was the earliest article
11:46
that I could find was where that was mentioned in terms of the caravan or migrant caravan. So Trump
11:51
didn't make that up. Here's another thing that's ridiculous that Trump said. Trump said or implied
11:57
that there were terrorists from the Middle East inside this caravan. Okay. So is it possible that
12:05
there are Middle Eastern terrorists that have infiltrated the caravan that's heading towards or
12:11
is now at the Southern border of the United States? Yes, it is possible. Is it likely? No.
12:18
That was a really, really dumb thing for Donald Trump to say because he has no evidence for that.
12:26
No evidence whatsoever that that there are Middle Eastern terrorists that there's members of ISIS
12:30
or Boko Haram that are hanging out with the caravan. But there is something that we see on the other
12:35
side of the issue is that there are no criminals in this caravan. You'll see a lot of people on the
12:39
MSNBC or CNN or or something like that. He'll say that there's no criminals in this caravan.
12:44
There's no members of MS 13 and it's caravan. There's no members of drug cartels that are in
12:49
this caravan. But that doesn't seem to be the case either because there have been a lot of interviews
12:54
with these people in the migrant caravan along the way and they're admitting to they're being
13:00
known criminals that are walking with them. Now, those people are probably going to have to pay
13:05
for saying that because we have them on camera and we have their quotes online now. So they're
13:10
probably going to have to pay if those people get caught. But the idea that there are no criminals
13:13
in this caravan, that's just a bunch of people that need help is kind of ridiculous as well.
13:18
And so those are just some of the misperceptions I just wanted to clear up and there are certainly
13:23
more, but those are the ones that I felt that were most pertinent. But the big overarching thing here
13:28
guys is that again, this brings up the political debate about illegal immigration. And so it's
13:36
something that I've been asked about before and I've been asked about regularly. And actually,
13:39
if you go back to episode 29 of this podcast, which was Q and A volume four, you know, I was
13:44
asked about this. I think it was the second or third question that I answered on that podcast.
13:48
And I kind of gave a lot of random thoughts. And so I would encourage you to go back to get more
13:52
of the long form answer on these things. But I talked about how people can flate immigration
13:58
and illegal immigration. People just kind of use those phrases or words interchangeably,
14:02
which is completely inappropriate. I talked about the the lottery system for work visas
14:08
here in the United States and how ridiculous that is. So these incredibly talented people
14:13
that we should want to be able to stay here, we cannot hand pick them or choose them to stay
14:17
here. We have to put them in a lottery. And if they strike out of the lottery three times,
14:21
they have to go back to their home country, which is absurd. I talked about DACA. We talked about
14:26
how I talked to DACA recipients and I've talked to people that come from illegal immigrant families
14:30
and how it's such a really it's a strange and convoluted situation. It's so hard to be black and
14:37
white on DACA on the recipients. But the point I did make in and I agree with this point even
14:43
today here months later after that recording is just because you did not break the law
14:48
doesn't necessarily mean that you can keep the benefits of the law that your parents broke.
14:55
And the example that I used at the time was if your parents had embezzled money and
15:01
right before they were caught, they transferred all the money to you and then they were caught,
15:08
right? So do you get to keep the money that your parents embezzled? I know that a lot of
15:13
people would call that a false equivalency, but at least you get the point. Like no, it's not
15:18
these DACA recipients fault that their parents broke the law of the United States and came here
15:23
illegally. And maybe the only thing they ever know is the United States and English and all
15:28
those different things like whatever that may be. But can we really say that it's just completely
15:32
okay that they should stay here? I mean, I think there's a debate to debate to be had there.
15:35
I also talked about the fact that when we looked at scripture, when we looked at different things,
15:40
Jesus respected the law of the land and told us to do the same. And I think that was very important.
15:45
But there's also an important distinction here, and I point this out in that podcast as well,
15:51
is that we don't base our laws off of the Bible that the Bible doesn't address
15:56
illegal immigration directly. So we kind of have to surmise meeting in a lot of these different
16:04
areas. And so that's the thing that's difficult because there's a lot of things in the Bible that
16:07
are very clear that are not up for debate. But then there are other things that are absolutely
16:12
debatable. And so where do we go on this illegal immigration issue? And so one thing I stopped
16:18
short of doing on episode 29 of this podcast was doing a deep dive into the arguments or the
16:26
scriptures that could maybe give us some hints as to how we should act or how we should think
16:31
about the illegal immigration issue. And so one thing I want to do on this podcast is go a little
16:36
bit deeper. But the thing about it is is I want this to be as cogent and as direct for you guys
16:42
as possible. And so I want to bring to you this article that I found that I feel like did the best
16:49
job of bringing the arguments together for this. Okay. And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to
16:55
be reading large portions of this article to you because I feel like it had a very good narrative
17:00
to it. But I am going to post the link to the article so that you can read it later in its entirety.
17:05
But this was an article written by James R. Edwards, Jr. back in 2009. And it was from the
17:10
Center of Immigration Studies. And it's an article entitled a biblical perspective on immigration
17:15
policy. So I will just say upfront before I start reading, excuse me again, before I start reading,
17:22
there are different parts of this article that I don't necessarily agree with. There are different
17:27
parts that I feel like we're not described in a nuanced enough manner. But I feel like overall
17:34
that Edwards did an amazing job here of describing some different ways that we should be thinking
17:40
about this. And so the article has three main focuses. And he goes into these three different
17:46
areas. The first is the biblical role of civil government. The second is migration in scripture.
17:53
So different examples of where we see migration in the scriptures. And the third is the responsibility
17:58
of immigrants and would be immigrants. And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to go ahead and go
18:04
to the article here. And like I said, I'm going to go ahead and read large swaths of it. But I'm
18:07
going to be leaving some sections out that we're either just, you know, redrilling the same point
18:12
home or something like that. But I feel like this will be beneficial for all of us. So I'm
18:16
going to go ahead and talk in the first section here and go into the first thing, which is the
18:20
biblical role of civil government. So here we go. A central question must be answered before a
18:26
biblically informed immigration policy may be determined. What role does God intend civil
18:30
government to fulfill? After all, earthly government will be the mechanism through which public policy
18:35
is formulated. Scripture clearly indicates that God charges civil authorities with preserving order,
18:41
protecting citizens and punishing wrongdoers. A prime passage is Romans 13 versus one through seven.
18:47
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except
18:51
from God and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore, whoever resists the authorities
18:56
resists what God has appointed. And those who resist will incur judgment for rulers are not a
19:02
terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is an authority?
19:08
Then do what is good. And you will receive his approval for he is God's servant for your good.
19:13
But if you do wrong, be afraid for he does not bear the sword in vain for he is the servant of God
19:20
and a venture who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore, one must be in
19:24
subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath, but also for the sake of conscience. For because of
19:29
this, you also pay taxes for the authorities are ministers of God attending to this very thing.
19:34
Pay to all what is owed to them, taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed,
19:40
respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed. The authority God delegates to
19:46
civil government focuses on justice, not mercy, though this is not saying law should not be tempered
19:52
by mercy. Biblical teachings of mercy generally apply to individual conduct, not to civil authorities.
19:59
Further, standards of justice are not fully moral if they are not accompanied by judgment
20:04
and punishment. These two elements, judgment and punishment are integral or else justice is not
20:10
just. In other words, civil government has been delegated authority to use force because
20:15
government fulfills the role of protector of a specific body politic and the members of that
20:20
political society. The reason the sort of justice has been delegated to earthly governments is for
20:25
protection of a defined set of people who live under a government's jurisdiction. These points
20:30
concerning civil government relate to immigration policy in several ways. One is the implication
20:36
of national sovereignty, which includes the right to determine the grounds for admitting foreigners
20:40
into the jurisdiction and on what conditions. It also leads to the deduction that immigration
20:46
policy should principally benefit citizens, not harm citizens well being. Further, its implications
20:52
include the prerogative of punishment and expulsion of those foreigners who do not abide by the civil
20:57
laws, including immigration laws, as well as determining the criteria and conditions for foreigners
21:03
admission. These sorts of prudential judgments may change according to the prevailing situation.
21:08
And now it's going to get into a little discussion about Old Testament principles.
21:12
Even the passages of scripture, most often cited by religious advocates of mass immigration and
21:17
amnesty plainly do not argue for open borders. Rather, these writings generally reflect equal
21:23
justice under the law principles. Consider Leviticus chapter 19, verses 33 and 34. When a
21:30
stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger
21:35
who sojourns with you as the native among you. And you shall love him as yourself for you were
21:41
strangers in the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God. Similarly, reads Exodus 22 21. You shall not
21:48
wrong a sojourner or oppress him for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt. Dr. Stephen Steinlight
21:54
has noted that the Hebrew term for sojourn means temporary stay. A related term used in some
22:00
scriptural translations is stranger. One Bible dictionary says this word generally denotes a
22:05
person from a foreign land residing in Palestine. Such persons enjoyed many privileges in common
22:11
with the Jews, but still were separate from them. The relation of the Jews to strangers was regulated
22:16
by special laws. And we see this in Deuteronomy, Deuteronomy 23, 24 verses 14 through 21, 25,
22:23
5 and 26 verses 10 through 13. This Bible dictionary defines two classes of aliens. The first,
22:30
those who were temporary visitors who owned no landed property and two, those who held permanent
22:36
residence without becoming citizens. We see this in Leviticus 22 10 and Psalm 1912. Both of these
22:42
classes were to enjoy under certain conditions the same rights as other citizens as seen in Leviticus
22:48
1933 and 34 and Deuteronomy 10 19. Again, those rights amounted to equal standing under the law
22:55
or have the benefit of the rule of law. Therefore, it is biblically inaccurate to incorporate automatically
23:01
and dogmatically permanent immigration into every such term. Nor is it reasonable to jump to the
23:07
conclusions many on the open border side do about related passages. These activists claim that such
23:13
passages mandate that a society welcome any and all foreigners presenting themselves. No such
23:18
passage state or imply overlooking illegitimately committed on the part of an alien in his entry.
23:24
Nor is there any requirement of unlimited or uncontrollable admittance of those who are members
23:29
of another nation or society. Assertions like those are at a minimum, a wrong reading. Such
23:34
verses actually indicate nothing about the grounds for alien admission to ancient Israel. Another
23:40
theme stands out in the Bible. God regards borders as meaningful and important. See, for instance,
23:45
Proverbs 22 28 and Proverbs 23 verses 10 and 11. Consider Deuteronomy 32 8. When the most high
23:53
gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the people
23:58
according to the number of the sons of God Ezekiel 47 verses 13 through 23 details the promise lands
24:04
boundaries numbers 34 verses 1 through 15 describes the borders the Lord established for each tribe
24:10
of Israel. Deuteronomy 19 14 commands against moving a neighbor's tribes boundary, stone marking
24:17
a stone marking a given tribe of Israel's inheritance in the promise land. Another example appears three
24:23
months after the Israelites left Egypt. The base of Mount Sinai was made off limits. See Exodus 19
24:29
verse 12 under penalty of death until the people had been consecrated resident aliens who had children
24:36
and settled in Israel largely largely because of Israel's failure to complete the mandate to
24:41
remove them were allowed private property in Israel. We see this in Ezekiel 47 verses 21 through 23.
24:47
However, numerous times Israelites are warned against letting the aliens pagan practices corrupt
24:52
God given moral standards. In short, the Old Testament teaches fair treatment of resident foreigners
24:58
with certain requirements of the aliens related to religious and civil legal standards. It also
25:03
instructs that aliens were to assimilate to the Hebrew culture boundaries are meaningful as well
25:09
and foreign presence among the Hebrews on several occasions was a curse. Few details of immigration
25:14
procedures standards or other policies policy prescriptions appear to infer some open border or
25:20
mass amnesty mandate from what actually appears in scripture is wrong. And now he's going to move
25:25
on to a section a little bit talking about justice and mercy. Justice and mercy along with a godly
25:30
life are fundamental principles of biblical conduct. Justice and mercy are complementary
25:35
principles. They informed the thoughts of America's founders as they fashioned a government for the
25:39
new nation. Government's wielding of a sword of justice is well established biblically as discussed
25:45
earlier. Jesus did not challenge that principle either toward Rome or other earthly authorities
25:51
nor did he question the legitimacy of a civil or religious government. When considering mercy as
25:56
public policy, however, an important distinction must be drawn. Not every moral or ethical teaching
26:02
in the Bible fits cleanly or applies equally to both individuals and societies. This is certainly
26:09
true with justice and mercy. The case for civil authorities executing justice is much planer.
26:14
While their application of mercy in public policies is merely tempering,
26:18
not predominant legislating mercy requires prudence restraint and good judgment.
26:23
It is important to note another element of justice. God brings reward and punishment to
26:28
human societies this side of eternity. Corporate entities such as civil societies have no existence
26:34
except in here and now. Thus they temporarily experience consequences affecting the whole.
26:41
Scripture teaches that individuals are ultimately responsible for their personal sin or righteousness,
26:46
but those personal moral dimensions affect the life of the body politic as well.
26:50
An aspect of this principle involves God's empowering specific or
26:54
expire empowering specific civil rulers over particular peoples. We see this in Deuteronomy 32.8,
27:01
Proverbs 8 verses 15 and 16 and acts 1726. Every ruler acts in accordance with God's sovereignty,
27:08
knowingly or not. Though the reasons for certain political actions may not always be discernible
27:12
to finite human beings as we see in Proverbs 21 1, Proverbs 28 16 and Proverbs 29 26.
27:18
Those who rule justly achieve a kind of temporal blessing for their body politic as we see in
27:23
Proverbs 21 15, Proverbs 24 29 4 and Proverbs 29 14. National character matters and has
27:31
ramifications for people. The nation characterized by righteousness pleases God as we see in Proverbs
27:36
11 verses 10 and 11, Proverbs 14 34 and Proverbs 16 12. A compassionate act when exercised by
27:43
an individual often becomes an injustice when compelled by civil government. The agents who are
27:48
supposed to be the guardians of justice and protectors of the innocent, the least of these,
27:53
the citizens or subjects of their jurisdiction. Thus, for example, writing into the US Constitution
27:58
a prohibition against cruel punishment, which is like the torture which European governments had
28:03
instituted such as the Spanish Inquisition or the English Star Chamber is an appropriate adaptation
28:09
of biblical standards of mercy. Freeing thieves and batterers from facing imprisonment,
28:14
restitution and accountability to society is inappropriate and not merciful. How might this
28:19
concept apply in US immigration policy? Take amnesty, for example, for giving foreigners for
28:25
entering the country illegally or staying when their visas expire might be seen as a merciful
28:31
or compassionate thing, at least as it's effects on people gaining legal status without having to
28:36
suffer the consequences, the law otherwise would require them. However, the government as agent
28:42
has acted in such a way that coerces innocent citizens and law-abiding immigrants to suffer
28:48
the consequences. So guys, I know that first section was a little long, but again, that was
28:52
basically looking at the biblical role of civil government. So right now, we're going to get
28:57
into the second main focus of this article, which is migration as described in scripture.
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And this will be much more brief in the last, the last section. So here we go, talking about
29:05
migration in the Bible back to the article. While movement of people spans the Old Testament from
29:11
Adam to Abraham, Abraham to Moses to Ruth, no immigration policy, the terms and conditions for
29:16
admission or expulsion of aliens is spelled out. Moreover, scripture provides no uniform
29:22
immigration policy mandate intended to apply to every body politic throughout human history.
29:27
Each instance of migration in the Old Testament is different. These movements span hundreds of
29:31
years and diverse conditions. It would be foolish to assert an immigration policy for the United
29:36
States based on such passages. The best Christians can do today is to identify these principles that
29:41
aptly fit their particular society's circumstances. God himself led certain individuals or households
29:47
to move to different locations. Each move, recordings, scripture helped fulfill his purpose in biblical
29:52
history. None appears to have involved illegality. Each segment of the biblical narrative and the
29:58
people in that historical line have a unique specific purpose leading toward a common, a coming of the
30:04
Messiah and the subsequent spread of the gospel. More routine human movement in biblical times was
30:09
governed by each particular destination. City States had walls and gates and thereby controlled entry
30:15
and exit. Much migration was temporary or nomadic. For example, traders, shepherds and other
30:20
traversed open spaces. Sojourners would move from location to location in different city states and
30:25
kingdoms to ply their trades made a living on the move. Craftsmen would spend periods away from home
30:31
hiring themselves out. At all times, the local government or rulers held ultimate control over
30:36
admission, expulsion, and the terms of stay as an example, see Nehemiah 13 versus 15 through 22.
30:43
Then here it gets into a section about Moses and some of the things that he did, talking to the
30:48
Amorite king and is traveling to Edom and a few things here talking about the New Testament,
30:54
but we'll go and get back into the article here. Caesar Augustus ordered a census and we see this
30:58
in Luke chapter two versus one through three. Thus people like Mary Joseph traveled to the
31:03
hometown of their lineage. The couple later fled to Egypt for protection against King Herod as we
31:08
discuss below. The Jewish religious leaders persecuted followers of Jesus recorded in the first several
31:14
chapters of Acts. Acts chapter eight versus one through three relates that the crackdown in Jerusalem
31:19
scattered believers to the other parts of Judea and Samaria. After Saul, the Pharisee persecutor
31:24
became Paul the Apostle Christ. He traveled throughout the Mediterranean region from Jerusalem to Damascus
31:29
to Crete to Athens to Rome. His missionary journeys were integral to in spreading the faith planting
31:35
and growing churches. Acts 21 and 22 record that Paul was a Roman citizen by birth and he relied on
31:41
the rights of Roman of of being a Roman, which is especially seen in Acts 22 verses 25 through 29.
31:47
The point here is that those subject to Roman rule citizen or not Christian or otherwise
31:54
benefited in tangible ways such as lawful travel within the empire and temporal citizen
31:59
citizenship serve both gods and early Christian's interests. Affordable individuals such as Paul,
32:04
certain rights, civil rights and privileges. Despite a less than perfect or moral civil authority,
32:11
Christians of the early church rendered under Caesar the things that were Caesar's. There's no
32:15
evidence here that early Christians broke any laws when crossing borders. And now it's going
32:20
to talk a little bit about humanitarian migration. Some people mistake examples of fleeing persecution
32:25
in particular instances in the lives of biblical characters with a broad mandate of open borders
32:30
where none exists. These examples most closely match modern refugee and asylum policies. Today,
32:36
nations will accept foreigners as temporary or permanent residents depending on the circumstances
32:41
because of warfare, natural disasters, or political or religious persecution in their homelands
32:46
that makes it impossible for these people to continue residing there without exceptional danger.
32:50
Perhaps the most notable example comes in the Mary and Joseph's flight to Egypt. They fled
32:55
King Herod's murderous decree to kill all male Hubert children under the age of two. After the
32:59
Magi from the East failed to inform him who and where Jesus was. Matthew chapter two verses 16-21
33:07
recounts this event in the life of a very young Jesus. An angel warned Joseph of the danger and
33:11
specified Egypt as the family's destination. Verse 15 gives a scriptural reason for that destination,
33:17
which was the fulfillment of prophecy pertaining to the Messiah. Misguided modern misinterpretation
33:22
notwithstanding, this act did not constitute illegal immigration. Nothing indicates that the
33:27
holy family broke in Egyptian law. Their intent was finding temporary humanitarian relief. They
33:33
stayed only until they could return to Israel. Therefore instances of migration chronicled in
33:39
scripture provide no sanction for open borders. These movements of people across territories
33:44
generally deferred to the national sovereignty of the local authorities regarding whether or not
33:48
to grant entrance. The theme given the Hebrews of fairly treating aliens and sojourners were a
33:53
symbol to equal justice under the law more than an admonition to take all comers without conditions.
33:59
Even humanitarian migration fleeing persecution as an example did not trump national sovereignty
34:04
as preserving law in order even as it relates to immigration is a duty of the governing authorities
34:10
and a manifestation of general blessing under common grace of all lawful residents and jurisdiction.
34:15
Additionally, particular movement on the part of certain individuals and of the Hebrew people to
34:21
the promised lamb for elements of God's carrying out his will through the affairs of men. They
34:27
should not be generalized beyond their context of time, place and actors absent perfectly cleared
34:32
direction by God such as leading his chosen people by pillars of cloud and fire. Believers after
34:37
the age of Christ should default to immigration standards that particular states may enact within
34:43
their delegated sovereignty. That would seem to be the most to be the most in keeping with the will
34:48
of God whose character includes a quality of order. So that's the second section there guys talking
34:53
about the migration patterns within scripture. And now we're going to get into the last section
34:57
which is talking about the immigrants responsibility or the responsibility of would be immigrants. So
35:03
here we go. Advocates for illegal immigrants like to blural moral lines. They offer up illegal
35:09
aliens who purport to be Christians yet wrapping their law breaking and Christian terms stands at
35:13
odds with the clearer teachings of scripture. It becomes all the more curious when a supposed
35:18
Christian justification overlooks conduct that might be regarded as is consistent with biblical
35:23
standards. For example, purported Christian Christian illegal aliens set the poor example of a criminal
35:29
life, often abandon their young children to grow up without parents daily guidance and leave their
35:34
community back home without the influence of salt and light. Thus, what is the biblical position
35:40
relating to those who would be immigrants? Have they the right to impose themselves on a sovereign
35:45
nation and established society? First, the biblical standard for immigrants is that they obey the
35:51
law of the nation, the general standard for all discussed above. Obviously, this relates to abiding
35:57
by the nation's decision whether or not to admit an alien and on what terms and conditions.
36:02
It also includes an assimilationist ethic foreigners duly admitted into their particular society are
36:07
expected to assimilate, not impose their own customs, language, etc., and remake the receiving
36:13
society in their own image. Second, forcing oneself on an existing nation is both unjust and
36:20
unjustifiable. In other words, illegal immigration is morally wrong. Lawbreaking aliens bear the
36:26
moral responsibility for their unlawful actions. Even desperate circumstances do not justify illegal
36:32
immigration. Proverbs 6 versus 30 and 31 says people do not despise a thief if he steals to satisfy
36:39
his appetite when he is hungry. But if he is caught, he will pay sevenfold and he will and he will give
36:45
all the goods of his house. The new international version translates the term as hunger and starving.
36:52
Here a man steals food to keep from starving. Everyone can understand that desperation that led
36:56
to his law breaking. But despite his sympathetic circumstances, the fact remains that he stole.
37:02
He took what belonged to somebody else. Caught for stealing, he now faces punishment. He has
37:07
to make restitution, even to the point of his own bankruptcy. Obing a nation's immigration laws,
37:13
this applies to employers as well as aliens, is a practical application of two paramount
37:18
commandments. Loving God and one's neighbor. We see this in Matthew 22 versus 37 through 40,
37:25
Mark 12 29 through 31 as well. It also follows Christ's directive to render unto Caesar matters in the
37:32
temporal and the temporal just government's jurisdiction as we see in Mark 12 17 and Luke 20 25. Such
37:39
obedience shows one's trust in God's promise provision and faith in his ability to meet one's needs.
37:44
Jesus taught such contentment and trust in God in the Sermon on the Mount as we see in Matthew 6
37:49
25 through 34 and 79 through 11 and elsewhere. Matthew 19 29 through 30 and Luke 12 22 through 34.
37:58
Almost no illegal aliens to the United States are fleeing starvation or physical danger.
38:03
A Pew study found that most illegal aliens quit a job in their home country in order to break us
38:08
immigration laws merely to take more money here. Thus illegal immigration is at its core
38:14
principally a matter of greed and envy on aliens parts. Foreign lawbreakers envy towards Americans
38:21
and material and political blessings may bring upon themselves eternal consequences. It is through
38:26
this craving love of money that have some wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with
38:31
many pangs as we see in 1 Timothy 6 verse 10. Violating immigration laws just as violating
38:38
other civil laws manifests one's failure to trust God to meet his people's needs. Illegal
38:43
aliens and their activists must ask themselves what the cost of such sin is worth to their souls.
38:48
For what does a profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Jesus asks in Mark
38:53
8 36 the IV translates the word as soul instead of life. Thus breaking immigration law flouts
39:01
God's provision for each person's well-being because civil authorities made those laws and as
39:05
seen earlier those authorities act under God's delegated authority. But let none of you suffer
39:10
as a murderer or a thief or an evil doer or as a medler as we see in 1 Peter 4 15. In context
39:17
this passage means Christians should only suffer in righteousness for the cause of Christ not as
39:21
those who disobey civil laws that should be accorded with except in the rares of instances
39:26
disobedience of duly adopted laws therefore dishonors God it displays hatred towards one's
39:32
neighbor. 1 John 5 20 says for he who does not love his brother whom he who he has seen cannot
39:38
love God whom he has not seen. In the context of members of a nation one's neighbors are those
39:43
people who share one's citizenship, patriotic allegiance and sacred duty to the body politic.
39:48
Okay so that wraps up the third section here so again they were talking about three main things
39:53
the first being the biblical role of civil government the second being migration and scripture and
39:58
the third being the responsibility of immigrants and would be immigrants and we're getting into
40:02
his conclusion here so here we go. We may fairly conclude that it displays questionable judgment
40:07
to rigidly construct an immigration policy for 21st century America based on a handful of
40:12
scripture passages taken out of context or from particular instances of migration spanning centuries
40:17
vastly different nations and kingdoms wholly different circumstances etc found in scripture
40:23
rather carefully discerning applicable principles better fits the situation.
40:27
Further obeying civil laws is the normative biblical imperative for Christians as discussed
40:33
above. National sovereignty is part of the authority God has delegated to civil authorities
40:38
whatever the immigration laws of a particular nation determining the policies of how many
40:42
immigrants to admit and the terms and conditions applying to immigrants are the pejorative of the
40:48
national body. Each society may set or change its nation's immigration laws those decisions
40:54
rest within the society and outsiders have no legitimate voice in that exercise of national
40:59
sovereignty. The reformer and statesman john calvin wrote of the sovereignty of the state
41:05
the duty of its lawful authorities is to dictate the course of justice and the sword
41:09
this extends to individual crossing sovereign borders and here's a quote from john calvin
41:14
if they civil authorities ought to be the guardians and defenders of the laws they should also
41:20
overthrow the efforts of all whose offenses corrupt the disciplines of the laws for it makes no
41:25
difference whether it be king or the lowest of the common folk who invades a foreign country in
41:30
which he has no right and harries it as an enemy all such must equally be considered as robbers
41:35
and punished accordingly though varying in manner and different jurisdictions calvin noted that
41:40
civil laws have the same general end in mind including such offenses as murder theft and false witness
41:46
but they states do not agree on the manner of punishment nor is this either necessary or
41:52
expedient there is a country which unless it deals cruelly with murderers by way of horrible
41:57
examples must immediately perish from slaughters and robberies there is a century where which
42:03
demands that the harshness of penalties be increased there is a nation inclined to a particular vice
42:08
and let it be unless it be most sharply repressed in other words different places rightfully make
42:14
craft laws that deal with their unique circumstances of time place and character this is a matter of
42:19
the sovereignty delegated by heaven the immigration laws of the united states have been adopted
42:24
through lawful legitimate democratic processes none of us may agree with every policy represented
42:30
in the law on the books and many of us might advocate certain changes in us immigration law
42:35
but this nation is blessed with a republican process for making laws there is a just and fair
42:40
way through the political process to modify statutes thus the will of the congress as manifested in
42:45
us laws represents the collective wisdom of the people's representatives and the will of
42:50
the american people as a whole as it is informed laws makers decisions throughout the political
42:55
process this is how the consent of the governed a solemn principle in american life operates
43:01
as messy and unsatisfying as that might be at times as for mass amnesty by legalizing millions of
43:07
illegal immigrants governments do not show mercy rather it obligates its citizens to bear the
43:13
injustices aliens have committed against the body politic as discussed earlier this fact stands
43:19
all the clear in light of calvin's point above okay guys so so that's the last part i'm going to
43:24
be reading there and again they may have seemed like a lot that i read just there but there were
43:29
huge sections that i skipped so again i wanted to include the entire article so you didn't think
43:33
i was taking anything out of context and i tried to make it flow as much as possible but obviously
43:38
i did take some things out for a narrative focus but so so what do we do with all this
43:43
right so i kind of walk you through a lot of arguments and i i didn't really give a lot of
43:48
uh my opinion there because i read most of the parts that i agreed with so you can just
43:52
assume that i agree with the majority of that and then i checked out most of the the things that
43:57
were said there but then we see what's happening in the news uh we have our own opinions about
44:02
illegal immigration because again this is a very specific thing happening within the confines of
44:07
illegal immigration or the immigration policies of the united states this migrant caravan but there's
44:12
so many things that come up i mean just months ago we were talking about you know kids being
44:16
separated from their parents at the border and how that was done under clinton and under busch and
44:21
under obama and then all of a sudden it was this big thing under trump and you know how is it being
44:25
presented and is it biblical and is it loving our neighbor and blah blah but i think there are
44:29
three things that we should be able to look at here uh and focus on and and these are kind of
44:35
three thoughts that i have in conclusion to the thing that we're talking about here with the migrant
44:39
caravan the first is that the migrant caravan is the product of a broken world i mean in a pre-genesis
44:48
three world we don't have a caravan like this because we wouldn't have sin we wouldn't have pain we
44:54
wouldn't have hunger we wouldn't have a need for asylum we wouldn't have corrupt governments
45:01
or crappy governments or crappy countries or crappy laws we wouldn't have any of these things
45:09
so as if we need another example of the sin that's around us or the sin nature of the people
45:13
around us this migrant caravan just hits us right square in the face we live in a broken world guys
45:19
that's not excusing anything or or telling you that you should lean left or right on this issue
45:24
it's just man here we are sitting in this broken world and jesus can't come soon enough
45:29
and the second thought is that the united states doesn't use the bible as its filter for public
45:36
policy okay i talked about that earlier but this is where i get really cross ways with a lot of
45:43
evangelicals is yes the united states and the founders founded this country the greatest country
45:52
in the history of countries right on biblical principles does that mean all of them were evangelicals
45:57
that all of them were believers in jesus christ and they acted it out in their everyday lives no
46:02
because there are people mainly on the left or mainly secularists that love to say that these
46:07
these people did not use christian principles because maybe they didn't act it out in their own
46:11
life or ben franklin had a bunch of paramores and so he's he wasn't a christian or things like that
46:16
but if we are we were so clearly founded using these principles but the united states currently
46:22
in 2018 going on 2019 we don't use the bible as our filter can you imagine if a big-time politician
46:30
so like trump or any of the house majority or minority leaders or senate majority or minority
46:36
leaders or anyone running for president from the democratic side of the ticket in 2020
46:40
do we really think we would take those people seriously if they started quoting scripture
46:44
even as a christian i think that would be really really awesome but i'm i'm when i say we i mean
46:49
the collective we american citizens again we're we're living in a post christian culture
46:55
like christiandom is out of the spotlight so if someone were to say hey this is what i think we
47:00
should do on taxation or this is what i think we should do on uh corporate borrowing this is what
47:06
i think we should do on uh you know funding elections or whatever the thing might be within law like
47:13
sentencing and you know drug laws and all the all the different examples that i'm trying to come
47:19
up with off the top of my head if someone were to quote the bible and say they believed one way or
47:23
the other the united states public would not be down with that we just don't use the bible and again
47:29
look at you as a christian we talk about this all the time we have more access to the bible now than
47:33
we have any time in recorded history and evangelical's read their bible less often than any time that
47:39
we've seen since we've been like looking at such things right so this expectation that we should
47:46
be able to take a scripture from the bible or look at a scripture that's on our coffee cup or on
47:49
our dopey shirt or something like that and all of a sudden glean massive policy from it is a
47:54
little bit short-sighted i think i think the genie's super out of the bottle on that one i'm not saying
47:59
that we shouldn't have done that from the beginning i was saying we pretty much can't do that now
48:03
and be almost impossible to go back and the last thought i have for you guys to consider is our call
48:11
as christians to love one another doesn't begin and or end with american immigration policy
48:19
you do not need a more left leaning immigration policy or a more right leaning immigration policy
48:27
to love one another to love your neighbor as yourself any of those things
48:30
and it goes back to the first point about the migrant caravan being a product of a broken world
48:37
you can completely disagree with immigration policy of the united states you can believe that
48:43
we need to build the wall you can believe that we need to put the army on the southern border border
48:48
and anyone that comes within a hundred yards of border that we shoot them whatever your thing
48:51
might be that you believe but nothing like that should stop you from caring for these people
48:57
from giving to organizations that are going down and caring for these people one thing that's
49:01
happening right now in tijuana and mexicali is they are running out of money they're running
49:05
out of resources because the mexican government wasn't prepared for this that's not exactly pretend
49:10
like the mexican government or the country as a whole has a lot of things figured out well
49:14
they know how to make resorts and soccer players and boxers and that's about it
49:19
they don't do much else particularly well in that country let's just be real
49:23
but they're running out of resources they need our resources they need resources from
49:29
Christians around the globe they need time they need volunteers and so believe what you want to
49:35
believe about u.s. immigration policy but if you ever come eyeball the eyeball with a refugee or
49:41
someone seeking asylum or you find an opportunity where you can't assist these people i would ask
49:46
you to consider that outside of your political leanings i mean seriously consider outside of
49:52
your political leanings to do those things and so excuse me guys this is a huge issue
49:58
this is something that we need to be praying about this is something that i give you a lot of
50:04
scriptural references today go and dig into those things and check those things out have
50:09
conversations with people especially people that disagree with you don't just go into some you know
50:14
echo chamber where you're talking to people that only agree with you and only watch the new
50:20
stations you watch and read the articles you read and listen to the podcast you listen to
50:23
get some different opinions on this this is an incredibly crazy issue it's not super cut and
50:30
dry in just about any way shape or form and so allow me to encourage you guys to do that as we're
50:36
going to continually run into these situations where we need to have this conversation all right
50:40
guys before we let you out of here we're going to do a quick resilience boost as you know by now we
50:44
are amends ministry on our mission is cultivating mainly resilience and specifically we do that by
50:48
providing content that for just spiritual mental and physical toughness so today we're going to work
50:52
on mental resilience and i'm going to go ahead and just give you that article to read because
50:55
guys it's going to take you while it's a fairly lengthy article and yes i know i always challenge
51:00
you guys to read you know why because you should freaking be reading all right so get used to it
51:03
you're going to hear it all the time on this podcast so again it's a biblical perspective
51:07
on immigration policy it's the long form version of what i shared with you a little bit earlier
51:12
all right guys thanks so much for listening to the podcast as always we would like for you to
51:15
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currently booking speaking engagements for the entirety of 2019 so if you want me to come speak
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free devotionals on the uversion bible app just search undaunted life under plans and as always we
52:00
want to thank the bayon august burns red for allowing us to use their entire music library
52:03
for our content the intro outro track on this podcast is their song king of sorrow which is
52:08
off their latest record entitled phantom anthem the links to all of this are in the description
52:12
i'm your host kyle tomsen remember keep cultivating manly resilience keep forging spiritual mental
52:20
and physical toughness keep seeking the lion of juda