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048 - The State Of Civility

November 8, 2018 38m 53s Full transcript available
048 - The State Of Civility
0:00 / 38m 53s
In this episode, we tackle the alarming decline of civility in our society, especially highlighted by the recent midterm elections. As Christian men, we must recognize the dangers of incivility and strive to engage with others respectfully, even amidst deep political divides.
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0:31 This is Undaunted Life, a man's podcast. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Let's get into it.
0:45 All right, guys, today we're going to be talking about the state of civility.
0:49 Man, the timing of this is pretty appropriate because we just had a display of one of the most
0:54 uncivil things possible, which is modern United States politics are really just modern worldwide
0:59 politics because we just had a midterm election. So if you're listening to this
1:03 on time, we had a midterm election a couple of days ago, and it was billed as, you know,
1:07 the biggest midterm election in the history of everything. You know, things don't go the way
1:12 for your party. It's going to irrevocably change the earth. And we're not going to be able to come
1:15 back from this. It's the most important election of our lifetime. Blah, blah, blah. There was a lot
1:19 of blovey aiding. There was a lot of hyperbole leading up to all this. But at the end of the day,
1:23 we just had some elections, right? You know, we pick some people for the states that we live in
1:27 and we pick some people for the nation. You know, it just kind of is what it is. But it was a really
1:31 interesting night. So if you're even if you're not a big political person, it is kind of interesting
1:36 to see this. And, you know, to be, to be honest, I haven't been watching midterm election results
1:40 for the last 40, 50 years and looking at trends or anything like that. But typically what you see,
1:45 you see the sitting president two years after they're elected, you see that president's party
1:52 lose seats in the house in the Senate. That's what you typically see. And it's not terribly
1:58 uncommon for if they have a majority going into that, you know, matching the same party as the
2:03 president, that that will actually flip. And so that's exactly what we saw last night. So
2:08 Republicans lost 34 seats in the House of Representatives, but they gained three seats in the United
2:15 States Senate. So I think most people were right in their predictions that the Republicans were
2:21 going to lose the House. So now they don't have control of all three branches. But are they
2:27 don't have control of the House and the Senate and the president, the president, the White House,
2:31 there you go, the White House. But at the same time, gaining three seats in the Senate was just
2:35 kind of interesting. And if you dig into the numbers and you dig into some of the races is a lot of
2:41 these are pretty predictable. That's why there was a really, really overwhelming chance that
2:45 Republicans were going to keep the Senate and an overwhelming chance that Democrats were going to
2:49 take the House. But there was just a lot of really interesting races. I mean, you had Ted Cruz
2:55 beating Beto O'Rourke, but it was only separated by a few 100,000 votes. And this was down in the
3:01 state of Texas, which is supposed to be incredibly deeply read. And this was like a really, really
3:06 close rate and Beto O'Rourke is a pretty extreme left wing guy. So that I mean, that shouldn't have
3:12 happened, right? You saw Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan that are all kind of considered purple
3:17 states that are probably the three most important states when it comes to the 2020 presidential
3:22 election, those now lean a little bit blue. There was a lot of governor's houses that changed here
3:28 in my home state of Oklahoma. Kevin Stitt, a businessman without a political background was
3:33 elected as governor. And the thing about it, whenever we're looking at something like the midterms
3:39 midterm elections or things that are coming up like that, we kind of get a sense of what's
3:45 happening in society and what kind of the, the tone and the temperature is on a lot of things that,
3:51 you know, most people think are important. Because we all differ on the things that we think are
3:56 highly important. But there just seems to be some major divides right now. And within humanity,
4:02 you're obviously going to have divides. And you can look historically as all kinds of divides,
4:07 right? And I mean, you have people on the opposite sides of wars, on the opposite sides of issues.
4:11 But right now, it's just there just seems to be huge divides between Republican and Democrat,
4:16 conservative and progressive rural and urban male and female, college educated, non college
4:22 educated, you know, one race or another race. I mean, you get the point. But the thing about it is,
4:27 is we can see this in our everyday lives, but then we can see it in polling data as well.
4:31 We can see it in how people voted, you know, people that are of a particular skin color,
4:36 and went to a particular school in a particular part of the country and live in a particular
4:41 area, they tend to vote a particular way. But the issue that we're seeing here is we're seeing
4:48 a relative increase of incivility. And the thing that I don't want to be in this podcast is I
4:53 don't want to be hyperbolic. I don't want to be an alarmist. I don't want to be a conspiracy
4:56 theorist, all that nonsense. Like I don't want to be that type of person. But you have to understand
5:03 that the temperature has been getting a little hotter around a lot of these issues. Things seem
5:08 to be ratcheting up and not the other direction when it comes to things that people disagree
5:13 with each other on. And it's just really interesting to see how Christian men that I'm around respond
5:21 to this and interesting to see as society as a whole response to this. And so I guess where I
5:26 would want to start is kind of where I started even thinking about the word civility. And so back
5:32 in 2004, I got a scholarship to the University of Central Oklahoma. And this was a scholarship that
5:37 was basically created by the president of the university. It was called the President's Leadership
5:42 Council Scholarship. So it's a scholarship that every year, you know, the University of Central
5:46 Oklahoma has about 16 or 17,000 students or so. That's what the average was when I was there
5:52 for my undergrad. And about 1,000 to 1,200 students every year apply for this scholarship. And about
5:58 25 or so get the scholarship. So I got it in 2004. And the thing that was interesting is you got a
6:05 lot of FaceTime with the president of the university. And at the time of my undergrad,
6:09 the president of the university the entire time was Roger Webb, Dr. Roger Webb. And an incredible
6:14 guy. He's still a mentor and friend of mine, even to this day. But just getting to learn from
6:19 him and learn things that are important to him and how you're supposed to build a society and have
6:24 an education and be a globally competent human being. We're all things that I was able to learn
6:30 basically at his feet for four years. And, you know, in the years subsequent to that.
6:35 But there were things that he talked about a lot while he was president and while we were under
6:40 his tutelage. And the big thing that he talked about were the three C's. And the three C's that
6:45 he said he said him in this order were character, civility and community. Those are Roger Webb's
6:50 three C's. And he drilled those things home every chance that he got. I heard him talk about it,
6:56 you know, innumerable times in speeches, even in talking in one-on-one situations.
7:01 And I got to see him act those things out. Like one of my favorite stories about Roger Webb was,
7:06 I think I may have been a sophomore or something. It's called maybe a junior or something like that.
7:10 And the first it's a first day of classes. So it's Monday of the first day of classes.
7:15 And if you went to college, you understand this Monday of the first day of classes is chaotic,
7:19 no matter what. People can't find a parking space. People, you know, locked, you know,
7:24 their, their laptop in their dorm room. You know, they don't know where the buildings are because
7:28 they figured they would just, you know, wake up and figure it out Monday morning. They're late for
7:31 their first class. They, you know, they enrolled in the wrong class. So they're trying to get in
7:35 with an advisor. Oh, well, there's a hundred people in front of them in line because everyone else
7:39 needs to see the advisor. So it's chaos, right? It's absolute chaos. Well, I'm at the university
7:42 center, which is one of the main buildings on campus. And I see Roger Webb walk through the bottom
7:48 floor of, of this building where most of this is going on. This is where, you know, the financial
7:55 advisement is, it's where the ID, where you get your student ID, it's where that is, it's where
7:59 student development and, you know, advisement. That's where all these people are, right? And he's
8:04 clearly sees he doesn't see me. And I don't make eye contact with him or something like that.
8:08 He's obviously on his way to a meeting or something like that. And he sees a student that is absolutely
8:12 perplexed and lost. This had to have been an incoming freshman. So 17, 18 years old, no idea
8:17 what's going on, you know, about to be a level 10 freak out. And he just stops and says,
8:21 Hi, my name's Roger. Is there something I can help you with? And you know, they're, they were,
8:26 you know, okay, you know, they kind of took a deep breath. And they're like, I think they were
8:30 looking for, you know, academic advisement. He's like, Oh, yeah, it's right over here. Let me,
8:33 let me walk you over there. He didn't say hello. I am the president of the university. Is there
8:38 something I can do to make your experience better? He didn't even do any of that. Like,
8:42 there's a pretty decent chance that this student may still not realize that the president of the
8:46 university actually physically walked them over to an academic advisor to get them all squared away.
8:51 And so this was a guy that I got to see his character civility and his sense of community and action
8:56 over and over and over. But as an 18, 19, 20, and 21 year old while I was in undergrad,
9:02 I had to think about those three things on a regular basis. And so thinking about civility,
9:07 I mean, the definition we have for civility is just basically its formal politeness.
9:11 So it's basically being courteous in behavior or speech. Those are the things that we think
9:16 of when we think of civility. But the thing that we have to ask ourselves now is, how did we get
9:23 to the current state of civility in our society? Because I don't remember things being this extreme
9:30 whenever I was in college. When I first, you know, I had to really look at civility. Now in 2004,
9:35 if y'all will remember back, that was the election year of George W. Bush and John Kerry.
9:40 And so, you know, I'm in a freshman class with the president with the 24 or so other students that
9:46 got this scholarship. And not everybody believes the same way. And as an 18 year old, you're having
9:50 to like, you know, define certain things and put your flag in the ground on a certain issue
9:56 and have cordial debates and express your opinion and all these different things. And so you're
10:00 having to learn civility somewhat on the fly. Because as a teenager or even younger than that,
10:05 you just kind of like throw your opinion up against the wall and just kind of deal with it.
10:08 I didn't really go to a high school where we were welcomed into a whole bunch of debates of any kind.
10:15 And so that's kind of the difference in discussing this with people is, okay, when did you ever
10:19 wrestle with this? And I think part of the issue that we're running into now is it seems like people
10:24 have never wrestled with the reality of whether or not we should be civil. And what the positives
10:30 and negatives of being civil or being uncivil are. And to be honest with you guys, I feel like
10:36 civility is under attack. Like, and again, I don't want to be hyperbolic, but I really feel that way
10:41 at this point. I mean, in part of the biggest reason for that is politics. I mean, it's probably,
10:48 as I mentioned at the top of the show, one of the more uncivil things that we're all a part of,
10:53 we get to witness this. Even if you're not one of those people that's constantly in the 24-hour
10:58 news cycle, you get pieces of it, man. You're scrolling through Twitter and you see the
11:03 incivility and you see it on Facebook and you hear it at work. And it's just, it's an interesting
11:09 thing. But we just have to look at some of the things that have happened here recently.
11:13 I mean, here recently, a few weeks before the election, Hillary Clinton, who I have no idea why
11:17 she's still talking and still relevant, but she's still talking to people and doing interviews,
11:21 she said that you cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for.
11:27 That's a direct quote. You cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you
11:31 stand for. I mean, there's so much wrong with that single sentence. The first part, you cannot
11:38 be civil. Well, who gets to make that determination? You, like whoever the president actually is,
11:44 which isn't you? I mean, that if somebody disagrees with you politically, you can't
11:50 be civil with them. Like think of the inherent ridiculousness in that statement. I mean, that's
11:56 crazy. And just say that because someone disagrees with you politically, they want to destroy what
12:02 you stand for. I'm sorry. Do any of us live in fear that we're going to say who we voted for in
12:09 public? And then all of a sudden, there's going to be like a SWAT team's worth of dudes come in,
12:13 though a black bag over your head, drag you into the back room and no one ever sees you again.
12:18 Because because last I checked that stuff doesn't happen in America, right? That stuff that just
12:24 just doesn't happen here. Then yet Eric Holder, who used to work with the Obama administration,
12:30 he was doing a speech and he was talking about Michelle Obama. And you know, basically her big
12:34 thing was when they go low, we go high. And then he was quoted as saying, no, no, when they go low,
12:39 we kick them. So, you know, here's the former attorney general basically talking about someone
12:43 disagrees with you politically that you should strike them. Now, I don't really think he was
12:48 calling for violence. I don't want to be ridiculous. But I mean, that wasn't very nice. I mean, look,
12:53 look at pretty much anything Donald Trump says. Some of you were thinking I was just going to start
12:57 railing on people on the left. But how many times does the guy have to be uncivil on Twitter?
13:03 Like it's ridiculous. Calling people names, calling people dogs, calling old, you know,
13:09 basically concubines, calling them horse face and all these different things. Like a lot of
13:14 things he says are incredibly uncivil and rude. They're frankly really, really rude.
13:18 You have Maxine Waters, who is a congresswoman in California, basically saying if you see anybody
13:23 in the Republican party in public that you should get a crowd and surround them and, you know,
13:28 shout them down and kick them out of restaurants and kick them out of department stores and to
13:32 actively go against these people. I mean, look at, look at pipe bomb guy, right? That this lunatic
13:38 that was sending apparently nonworking pipe bombs to all these people that he disagreed with
13:43 politically in every single one of those people was on the left. He sends it to CNN. He sends one
13:48 to to Bill Hillary Clinton and to Michelle and Barack Obama and he sends it to, you know, George Soros
13:53 and all these different individuals. Like that's that's a very civil thing to do. But look at the
13:59 Kavanaugh situation. I almost forgot about that one. Judge Kavanaugh. Have we really forgotten?
14:03 That's the thing about the news cycles. That was what three or four weeks ago.
14:06 I mean, go back to episode 42 and 43 of this podcast. I talked about what was going on with
14:11 Judge Brett Kavanaugh for two episodes in a row because it was unbelievable. It was unbelievable
14:16 what we were seeing. Like the fact that with with no evidentiary basis for anything that the
14:22 Democratic Party was willing to destroy a human being. And here's a here's a good proof for it
14:29 because if the Democratic Party actually thought that Judge Brett Kavanaugh was a rapist, a gang
14:34 rapist or or any type of rapist, don't you think they would still be talking about it?
14:39 Because because now it's like, oh, we got a rapist on the Supreme Court. Like we can't let
14:44 this stand. It's not like, ah, shucks. You know, he's already on there. I guess we'll leave him alone
14:49 now. No, it wasn't politically expedient for them to continue talking about it because it was a
14:53 losing issue because everyone saw through the charade, right? But it's just again, and those are
14:59 just a few examples. But there's plenty of examples a lot with with politicians. I would say that
15:06 easily it's mainly happening with people on the left, but it certainly happens with people on the
15:10 right and people that pretend to be in the middle, right? But there there's kind of like fundamental
15:17 differences in how people are on civil. I think there was a great quote by Dennis Prager, Prager,
15:21 you. He said this. He said the right thinks the left is wrong talking about political right and
15:26 political left. He says the right thinks the left is wrong. The left thinks the right is evil.
15:31 But at the same time, I can see the same thing being true in the opposite. I know that there are
15:38 a lot of people that align on the conservative part of the aisle, which I have told you over and
15:43 over where I align that they look at people that are on the left is evil. Now, to be fair, I think
15:50 it's completely okay to think some of the things that they think are evil because if somebody,
15:57 which it makes it almost impossible for me to vote for any Democrat ever, if somebody thinks that
16:02 you can murder a baby that's living in the womb of a mother, I'm not down with that. I disagree
16:10 with that wholeheartedly. And I think it's an evil ideal to believe that you can murder somebody
16:15 like that. But do I think that person is evil? Not necessarily. I don't know them. I just know
16:23 that something they believe is incredibly, incredibly evil. But the problem is is with the temperature
16:29 of some of the discussions that we're having, it makes it almost impossible to have a conversation.
16:33 Which for the most part is where civility begins is in a conversation. Again, going back to the
16:40 definition, it's just basically courteousness and politeness. Do you have the ability to be courteous
16:46 and polite to somebody? And so as I was thinking through kind of what I've seen over the weeks
16:51 leading up to the election, and then obviously the coverage I saw on election night, there were
16:56 a couple of things that came to mind. And these are the two dangers of being uncivil. So I want
17:01 to kind of go through what I'm calling the two dangers of being uncivil. The first danger is we
17:06 tend to dehumanize people that disagree with us. And we see this in micro and macro levels.
17:14 So we will demonize somebody that thinks LeBron James is the best basketball player of all time.
17:20 When we think it's Michael Jordan, we will disagree with somebody that says that the Beatles is the
17:27 greatest band ever. Whereas I might think Metallica is the greatest band ever. I'm just kind of making
17:32 stuff up. But when it goes into the most extreme situations as well. So people that disagree with
17:38 us politically, people that disagree with our religions, and the way that we, you know, raise
17:43 our kids in the way that we help out businesses and the way that we run our businesses and all
17:48 those different things, we tend to dehumanize people that disagree with us. And when you start
17:54 seeing people as less than human, it's obvious that you would not treat one of those people
17:59 like civilly. Like you wouldn't want to be civil towards those individuals because they're not
18:05 worth being civil towards because they're not really human in your mind. They're just a Democrat.
18:10 They're just a Republican. Like they're just a Trump guy. They're just an Obama guy.
18:16 They're, you know, again, I know I keep going to the political side, but that's where most of
18:20 this gets to be charged. But even look on the religious side. Oh gosh, they're just a Sikh.
18:23 They're just a Muslim. Now those stupid atheists, those, you know, agnostics over there,
18:29 those secular humanists. And the thing that we have to remember is every single person that we
18:38 are ever eyeball the eyeball with on this planet is made in the image of God. Whether they're your
18:44 pastor or they're the leader of ISIS. They were all made in the image of God. And they can either
18:51 live a life that's looking towards him or away from him, but they're all, we're all in the same
18:56 plane here. And the second danger I see of being uncivil is that we practice actively turning people
19:04 away. So the first one is we tend to dehumanize people that we disagree with. And the second
19:08 is we practice actively turning people away. Most people, if we're being fair, most people are not
19:15 trying to turn people away, trying to turn people off. But it's something that happens over and over
19:21 and over. And the thing about whenever you're being uncivil towards somebody, it's you're physically
19:28 taking yourself in a direction that is to the opposite of that person. Like you're being anti
19:34 that person. And when you do that, you're going to turn people off. So specifically to the context
19:41 that we're thinking of right now as Christian men, we would want to attract people to us and
19:47 attract them to our way of thinking about the world and obviously attract them to the reality of the
19:52 gospel. And so if we're unwilling to do that, it becomes a major issue. I mean, if you're unwilling
20:03 to act in a way or comport yourself in a way that will allow people to come to the gospel,
20:07 like that's something that you need to repent of. That's not something that you should be proud of.
20:12 And because that's the thing is I know a lot of guys specifically that are proud of the fact
20:17 that they [inaudible] people off. Like on there, they do it on purpose. So so I'm there's a good buddy
20:22 of mine that I know of specifically, he's a Trump supporter, right? And believe what you want
20:27 about Trump or say what you want to say about Trump, that's not necessarily what I'm talking
20:29 about here. But he got a Trump sticker to put on the back of his car, which I have a crap. I mean,
20:35 if you're a Bernie person, you have a sticker on the back of your car. Great. Then I can laugh
20:38 at you as a dry buy like it doesn't really matter. But he specifically got this sticker so that he
20:44 could make people angry. He wanted to make people angry. He was actively turning people away.
20:49 And I just had to think there's so many opportunities for us to turn people away where it's so easy
20:55 for us to just not do those do those things. I mean, the motivations for this guy were negative
21:02 when it came to why he got the sticker. He didn't need to do it that way. Now, if he had bought
21:07 the exact same sticker and put on the exact same part of the vehicle, and he was like, no, I just
21:10 want to show my support for my guy because I voted for him. It's different. But he was actively
21:15 turning people away. And that's one of the dangers of being on civil. He was practicing
21:18 incivility like in basically modeling that for the people around him. This is a guy that owns a
21:24 business. And he's modeling that to the people that are around them. And a lot of people thought
21:28 it was funny. I didn't really think it was funny. It's just like, you know, why would you do that?
21:32 Like for that reason, I don't give a crap what the sticker says. But like, why would you do it for
21:38 that reason just to make someone mad? It's kind of the same thing when I get accused of this from
21:43 time to time that I just try to do things on this podcast or within this ministry, just to shock
21:48 people. It's like, really? You think I'm doing that just for the sake of shock? I had a buddy
21:54 episode four of this podcast is called Pussy's in the pews. And he's like, yeah, I know you just
21:58 named it that because of because of the shock value. And it's like, no, bro, like, this is just
22:02 how I talk. Like, I literally couldn't think of a better name for it. I couldn't think of a more
22:06 appropriate name for it. And he wasn't wrong for any by any means to saying what he said.
22:11 It's just he wasn't accurate. He didn't realize that I wasn't doing it for shock value that that's
22:17 just the way that it was. But I'm not actively acting in a certain way to turn people away.
22:23 I want to stand up for truth. And I want to stand up for the, you know, philosophy about
22:29 men's ministry that we have here. But I don't do it actively to turn people away. And I'm certainly
22:33 not going to be uncivil to get there. And so if those are the two dangers of being uncivil,
22:38 I think there are two main ways that we can be civil. And so here's the that was all the descriptive
22:44 stuff. So I guess we're going to move into the prescriptive stuff now. But the first thing is
22:48 super easy, guys. And I'm going to take you to church a little bit. It's love your neighbor as
22:51 yourself. Love your neighbor of yourself. Like, that's easy. Like, think of the number of issues
22:57 that would be solved within your house, within your business, within your city, within this country,
23:02 within this planet, if you just loved your neighbor as yourself. And so I want to go ahead and read
23:08 the section of the Bible where we get that, because a lot of us will just kind of spout that out and
23:12 just forget that it actually came from Scripture. And I know that your pastor is probably going over
23:16 this at least once or twice a year. But guys, go to Mark 12. So if you're in a safe place where
23:20 you're not driving or doing something dangerous, go to Mark 12. I'm going to go ahead and read this
23:24 section here, because it's such an interesting thing to watch our Savior, to watch our God,
23:28 to watch the line of Judah take on these people that are trying to trip them up. So Mark 12
23:32 versus 28 through 34, I'm going to be reading from the English standard version. So here we go.
23:36 And one of those scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another. And seeing
23:41 that he answered them well, asked him, which commandment is the most important of all?
23:45 Jesus answered, the most important is hero Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall
23:52 love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with
23:57 all your strength. The second is this, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other
24:03 commandment greater than these. And the scribe said to him, you're a right teacher. You have truly
24:08 said that he is one, and there is no other besides him. And to love him with all your heart, and with
24:13 all your understanding, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much
24:18 more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus said that he answered wisely,
24:24 he said to him, you are not far from the kingdom of God. And after that, no one dared to ask him
24:29 any more questions. I always think that that's that cracks me up. I don't know if that cracks
24:33 you guys up, but no one dared to ask him any more questions. It's like, yeah, because he's owned
24:36 you over and over and over, because you made this way too easy for him. Like, when are you going to
24:42 stop bringing him this weak sauce? But that's an incredible thing for us to remember that they asked
24:48 him for a singular answer, and he gave us two. He basically described how we're supposed to love God,
24:53 and then how we're supposed to love others, and love your neighbor as yourself, which, you know,
24:58 I'm not going to go into a sermon about that, because you all heard it all before. But, you know,
25:02 if you love yourself well, you have to love other people well. And that's one of the main ways to
25:07 be civil. Again, going back to this concept of everyone that you're ever eyeball the eyeball with
25:12 is somebody creating the image of God and worthy of dignity and respect, regardless of what they've
25:18 done up to that point, right? So that's the first main way to be civil. And the second is to be
25:25 intellectually honest, be intellectually honest. This is one of my least or it's one of my most
25:32 frustrating things watching people interact is that they're so intellectually dishonest,
25:37 whether you're seeing people spout their opinions on Facebook, or whether they're saying things
25:42 casually at the workplace or something like that, when they're not being consistent in their ideology.
25:47 They're consistent when it's convenient for them in their argument, or whatever they're trying to
25:53 get across to you or say to you or say to somebody else. But then whenever you flip the script a
25:57 little bit, it's not nearly as important to them to stick to that. And so one of the things that I
26:02 think is really important, this is a great litmus test since most of this has been about politics,
26:06 is think about something that your favorite current politician is doing, right? Let's just use two
26:12 of the easiest examples, because we can compare them side by side. So let's look at the previous
26:17 president, President Barack Obama, and the current president Donald Trump. So during the eight years
26:23 of Barack Obama's presidency, I was miserable. Like this guy, like I was rooting for him, because
26:29 guess what? I live in the United States of America, so that was my president. I chose not to vote for
26:34 him twice, but it didn't matter. The country spoke, the electoral college did the thing it was supposed
26:38 to do. And he was my president. But then he subsequently did thing after thing after thing after thing
26:45 that was completely against what I felt was right, what I felt was moral, what I felt was
26:50 ethical, what I felt was good for our country, didn't make him not my president. But I didn't like the
26:56 things that he was doing in the way that he was going about it. Now, you will have somebody, you
27:01 will probably have a lot of people, maybe it's even you, that will say the exact same thing about
27:06 Donald Trump. That's how they feel about Donald Trump. But this is where we have to be honest,
27:12 is if when Barack Obama did it, you were furious. But when Donald Trump does the same thing,
27:20 you think it's okay? That's not intellectually honest. If Donald Trump does it, and you think,
27:27 ah, great idea. But when Barack Obama did it, you're like, ah, that jerk. That's not intellectually
27:32 honest. So with most of these things, there's kind of an easy proof. And that's if the shoe
27:38 was on the other foot, or if you had to think about it another way, or if you inserted another name,
27:42 or if you inserted another party, or if you inserted another idea, then would you be able to see
27:48 yourself thinking the same way that you're thinking right now? Because here's the thing about civility
27:53 and intellectual honesty. Let me just kind of attach these things is when you're being intellectually
27:57 honest with yourself, it causes you to dig deep into your own philosophies and define them to make
28:05 sure that you have a fully thought out philosophy on a particular subject matter. Because there's
28:10 nothing more annoying than somebody that has an incredibly loud opinion, but it's completely
28:15 uninformed. So you see all these morons, it doesn't matter what's high the aisle they're on,
28:20 picketing and, you know, yelling things from the crowd. And then every now and then you'll get
28:24 these organizations that'll come through and want to do one on one interviews with these people,
28:27 and they don't know anything. They don't know anything about what they're yelling about. They're
28:30 just yelling, which it's so ridiculous. They have no desire. They're, they're not striving for
28:37 intellectual honesty. But you know what, they're just going to go out and yell anybody anyway,
28:41 because they read an email that basically gave them their talking points or screaming points,
28:45 and they're going to make a funny or stupid sign. They're going to hold it up and then they're
28:48 going to go on about their day and probably do it again tomorrow or next week or a year from now,
28:52 right? But an easy way for us to practice being civil is by being intellectually honest,
29:00 which is going to require something called a conversation. Because one of the easiest ways to
29:05 realize if you are being honest with your philosophy is to test it. To talk to people that
29:11 disagree with you, to go into areas that are going to make you a little bit uncomfortable,
29:17 to read or listen to or watch videos about people that have points of view that are different from
29:22 yours. And then you can evaluate your presuppositions and you can evaluate your overall position on
29:27 a particular issue or worldview, but you can do it with intellectual honesty. Does that mean
29:32 you're necessarily right? No, especially if it's something that's opinion-based. But if it's
29:38 something that is based in truth or falsehood, then that's great. Then you've dug down to bedrock.
29:43 That's a great thing. But there's there's a whole lot of non-conversations happening right now.
29:50 Yeah, people that are just yelling their sides, you know, issues or yelling their talking points,
29:56 whether it's on social media or in person. And there's not a whole lot of people trying to
30:00 conversate. And just to be honest with you guys, I don't I think we might be past the point of
30:04 no return. Are we getting the genie back in the bottle on this one? Do we all of a sudden think
30:11 that there's going to be a moderate third party that's going to somehow, you know, break the divide
30:16 between the Republicans and the Democrats in this country? Do we honestly think that's going to happen?
30:20 Do we honestly think that organizations that make tons and tons of money and have a tremendous
30:25 amount of influence are all of a sudden going to, you know, basically not have those things,
30:30 they're going to give up those things in order for individuals to be able to come more towards
30:35 the center? Like, are our people going to stop trying to go deep red or deep blue and kind of
30:40 bring more into the center and be more purple? I just don't think so. And so for us as Christian
30:45 men, we have to see the church, the modern church, as being downstream from culture and downstream
30:51 from modern politics, because that's what's really happening. Like the church has been so
30:55 emasculated and seen as such an afterthought now that we're going to have, we're going to assume
31:00 that we're going to have some of those things happening in our ranks. And I do see it a little
31:05 bit. Now, I don't really get into the, you know, the Calvinism thing and oh, is this person a
31:10 dispensationalist or any, you get into all that nonsense? Because I see so much of this happening
31:15 even within the church, this incivility with people that are supposed to be our brothers.
31:19 And part of the thing is, is because someone might disagree with you on a theological point
31:24 and again, you, you almost dehumanize them. You put them in a category. Like, oh, you're one of
31:29 those people. You believe one of those that you're a Baptist. Oh, you're a, you know, you're a
31:33 Presbyterian or oh, you're a, you know, whatever the thing might be. I can't even think of categories
31:38 like that off the top of my head right now. But just think about the incivility in the church, guys.
31:42 And to be honest with you, there are certain theological issues that we should fight about
31:47 in a civil way as brothers. I love hearing you know, I haven't mentioned Matt Chandler yet,
31:52 so here I got to pull Matt Chandler out again. I've heard him talk several times where he just
31:58 disagrees vehemently with somebody at a different church or maybe someone within the axe 29 network.
32:03 And you know, they will talk about it and they might even get a little bit heated,
32:06 but they always try to make sure that they can shake hands and leave his friends. Even if they
32:11 still are on a separate sides of the issue. I mean, just to be honest, guys, think about all the
32:15 civil conversations that you've had with somebody where you left with your mind changed. You may
32:19 have left with your mind more open, but you maybe didn't change your mind because I can guarantee
32:22 you right now, there's not a thing anybody on this planet can say to me to make me think abortions.
32:27 Okay, anything not a thing to think that we should just be able to do that carp launch without any
32:33 issues. I mean, you might have your issue as well that under no circumstances could someone tell you
32:40 that it's okay for a immigrant to come here illegally, like under no circumstances. Maybe
32:44 that's your issue. Like, maybe your issue is school choice. Maybe your issue is, I don't know,
32:49 like marijuana or whatever your thing might be. But at the end of the day, we should always
32:53 strive to be civil with the people that are around us and try to come to some common ground and
32:57 understanding. We can do that by loving our neighbor as ourself and by being intellectually
33:02 honest. And I really hope that some of these things that we talked about here today is going to be
33:07 helpful for you as you go through life, because the tendency and the temptation is going to be
33:12 to make things worse, to join one of the mobs, either the one on the left side or the right side
33:18 or one of those things, it's to join the voices that are screaming the loudest. And this is my
33:22 encouragement to you to be above all that, to be the one person in the crowd raising your hands
33:27 silently to be like, I would like to talk to somebody about this is anybody interested in
33:31 grabbing a cup of coffee or a drink. So we, so we can talk, talk through this. I'd, I'm really
33:36 interested to hear your point of view. And I think if more of us did that, we'd be in a better spot.
33:40 All right, guys, before we let you out here, we're going to do a quick resilience boost.
33:42 As you know, by now, we are a men's ministry and our mission is cultivating manly resilience.
33:47 Specifically, we do that by providing content that forges spiritual, mental and physical toughness.
33:52 So today we're going to talk about mental resilience. And I'm pretty sure I've forgotten some of the
33:57 things that I've done on this podcast, but I'm almost certain that I've suggested Stephen Crowder
34:02 videos before the change my mind series. I can't remember the context. I'm sure y'all would
34:07 know more than I do. I should know where this is headed. But basically, Stephen Crowder is a
34:11 conservative comedian that does these things where he basically does these long form discussions.
34:17 He normally goes to a college campus or something like that. And anybody who's willing to sit down
34:22 with him and discuss this issue, he will discuss it with him. And so he's done it on abortion. He's
34:28 done it on gun rights. He's done it on all kinds of different things. But I have a video here for
34:32 you called there are only two genders change my mind because of all the change my mind series videos.
34:37 This is the one with the most views. I think it's like 50 million views as the recording of this
34:41 podcast or something like that. But here's my caveat because I know people are like, oh my gosh,
34:44 he's suggested so by Stephen Crowder. What's wrong with him? Okay, I don't agree with everything
34:48 that Stephen Crowder has ever said. So if that's not good enough, there are specifically jokes
34:55 and videos and things that he has done that I don't agree with that I specifically think
35:01 were distasteful, that were unnecessary, that he could have done a different way.
35:05 But part of the things that he does is for shock value, part of the things that he does
35:08 is it is just because that's his way of doing things. This is the thing that I like the most
35:14 about what Stephen Crowder does, that he will get two microphones and he will sit at a table with
35:19 anybody who's willing to debate him on an issue. And this is what I like the most about these
35:23 sessions because again, I don't really think he wants his mind changed. It's called change my
35:27 mind. But I think he's going in basically trying to show off how how much he knows about these
35:31 subjects. But he's always calm and he's always civil. He seems like he genuinely wants to know
35:39 why people think that the way that they think that these people are almost always sitting down
35:43 because they disagree with him wholeheartedly on a particular issue. And a lot of times it goes
35:48 off the rails and these people get super emotional and get hyped and just go nuts. And then other
35:52 people they just go, yeah, well, I disagree. But hey, you know, shake hands and we'll part ways.
35:57 And I think it's something that we need to see more of like enough of the little two, three-minute
36:02 hits on on the nightly news and and stuff like that. Like it sees long-form discussions. And so
36:08 again, this is not an endorsement of Stephen Crowder. This is not me saying you need to listen to his
36:12 podcaster join his network or whatever the thing that he has going on that you have to pay for. Like
36:16 this is not me saying that. But it is a testament to the to basically the fact that you can sit down
36:22 in front of somebody that you disagree with and have a discussion with them. That's a little weird
36:26 because there's usually several dozen people sitting around watching and basically keeping notes
36:30 on what's going on on them, you know, verbally sparring back and forth. But these things could
36:35 very easily happen without the crowds there. It's just he does them in a public forum. And that's how
36:40 it is. So anyway, hopefully that's helpful to you. And hopefully that video is interesting to you.
36:44 And if not, shoot me an email and maybe I'll read it. All right, guys, thanks again for listening to
36:49 the podcast. I really appreciate it. Please subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud or Google Play,
36:53 and refer your friends to listen and share this on social media. If you use the hashtag
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37:02 review, guys, please leave us one. We are currently still five-star reviewed. And this podcast will
37:06 continue to grow if you continue leaving us good reviews with a few sentences telling us what you
37:11 like. I'm currently booking speaking engagements for the last couple of months of 2018 and the first
37:16 three quarters of 2019. So if you'd like for me to come to speak at your men's event, at your
37:21 conference, at your camp, whatever, hit me up at info@undaunted.life, info@undaunted.life. Our website
37:28 is www.undaunted.life. And you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @undauntedlife or facebook.com
37:34 backslash undaunted life. Check out our free devotionals on the U version Bible app. Just search
37:39 undaunted life under plans. And as always, we want to thank the band August Burns Red for allowing
37:43 us to use their music library for our content. The intro out your track on this podcast is our
37:48 Song King of Sorrow, which is off their latest record entitled Phantom Anthem. The links to all
37:52 of this are in the description. I'm your host Kyle Thompson. Remember, keep cultivating manly
37:58 resilience, keep forging spiritual, mental, and physical toughness. Keep seeking the lion of Judah.
38:13 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no!
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Kyle Thompson
Civility is under attack. We have to strive to be civil with the people that are around us.
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